On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:11:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<
michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
Re: describing the name/term/title/code "Rock 'n' Roll" as a distinctive
sub-genre of "Rock and Roll".
>Geoff, I know that it has nothing to do with your personal taste.
>
I see that now.
>I said that *if* (hypothetically) you were to sub-divide r'n'r according to your personal taste, I wouldn't have a problem with your doing so.
>
>My problem is that you're presenting your sub-division as some sort of objective, authoritative, and hereafter to be recognized by all definition.
>
Mike, I think you're misinterpreting my confident approach as being
'authoritative'. It's a lot more modest than that. I'm simply promoting the
idea of a separate and meaningful sub-genre, rock 'n' roll, for rock and roll
music that has an authentic 'raw' ambience (as perceived hopefully by a good
percentage of people interested in 50s rock), to distinguish it from other rock
and roll music that *comes across* as being, relatively tame, or
artificial/unauthentic, or classic Pop influenced.
That leaves one to explain 'raw'. I'll rely on an intuitive understanding for
now, but it does suggest a lack of a more polished classic Pop influence.
>> What I have done, is to distinguish "rock'n'roll" music from "rock
>> and roll" music. I see nothing "odd" about perceiving a difference between the
>> innocent rock and roll music of Pat Boone and the threatening (to conservative
>> white middle-class parents) rock'n'roll music of Little Richard.
>
>Perception is subjective. Is LR threatening because he's black or because he's a flame? Is his music more threatening because he shrieks, screeches and "woo-woo's" his way through it?
Neither you nor I know for sure what exactly went thru the minds of
'conservative, white middle class parents' when they listened to the records of
Little Richard and other "rock 'n' roll" artists. Read on.
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However, here is some very convincing evidence, from circa 1958, that
rock'n'roll was perceived as a 'threat' - "the musical noise symptomatic of a
decadent and irresponsible youth":
**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNoO775HYqM **
In this video we have:
. A youngish evangelical, Rev Jimmy Snow, who knows "the evil feeling you feel
when you sing it, the lost position you get into in the beat"
. The Alabama White Citizens Council - "We've set up a 20-man committee to do
away with this vulgar, animalistic, nigger rock and roll bop" {it being a threat
to segregation and worse it seems}
. A middle-aged DJ imperiously announcing "Rock and roll has to go", as he
proceeds to take a shellac record off the studio turntable and throw it to the
floor, smashing it
and we see printed media headlines such as:
. "Does Rock and Roll Cause Delinquency?"
. "Songwriter Blasts Today's 'Trashy' Music"
. "MUSIC OR MADNESS? Rock and roll music has stirred up a whirlwind of adult
protest"
. "Teenage Music Craze Has Parents Worried - We're losing control of our own
children!"
. Comment from a middle-aged guy (quite possibly the parent of a teenager):
"I've been looking into this rock and roll music, and it disgusts me"
An Internet search would likely allow one to expand on these statements.
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This 'ambience of authentic rawness' notion gives me/us a simpler and broader
net in which to capture rock 'n' roll music - although by itself, this still
does not completely define the music I have in mind:
There are one or two qualifications, for one it must be perceived as being
targeted primarily at teens and not have significant 'conservative' elements,
which means for instance, that rockabilly with fiddles or rockabilly with a
significant hillbilly or country flavor does not qualify as rock 'n' roll.
For comparison purposes, Gene Vincent is the architypal exponent of rock 'n'
roll; LR has a stronger R&B flavor, JLL a stronger Country flavor, and so on.
>Nor do I see how you're going to determine which r'n'r are threatening and which rock and roll records are not. According to your original post, you seem to be basing the threat on the artist's persona.
An artist's persona is mostly garnered from the aural nature of their
recordings. Photos of an artist would usually validate or amplify this persona,
but recordings rule.
> Was Buddy Holly with his eye glasses and hiccups threatening?
His non-pop recordings, yes. "Rave On", the title, the lyrics ("the way you
dance and hold me tight") and the punchy style of singing, does suggest a
decadent and wayward youth, does it not?
> Was Chuck Berry threatening (prior to his arrest for transporting minors)?
Ask the Alabama White Citizens Council. (is this an example of black humor? :-)
>
>AFAICS rock 'n' roll records are a mix Pop and R&B or of Pop and Hillbilly.
Some rock and roll records perhaps, but not rock 'n' roll records.
Rock 'n' roll "drew on country, gospel, the Delta blues, and the R&B coming out
of Northern ghettos".
> Pat Boone's r'n'r records are more clearly enunciated than LR's, sung in key and on the beat throughout
Pat Boone never released a rock 'n' roll record. Your description tends to
indicate a polished Pop influence. Some of his covers might be rock and roll
thanks to their R&B-Rock *heritage*.
>If you want to call them Pop-Rock (as differentiated from LR's Pop-R&B-Rock), fine.
Pop-R&B-Rock is better applied to Pat Boone's "Long Tall Sally"
LR's "Long Tall Sally" had no measurable Pop in it.
>But base it on the music, not the fact that Pat wears a Letter jacked and white bucks and LR wears false eyelashes and a beehive.
A no-brainer. These facts are irrelevant. Would you believe, it's "what comes
out of the speakers" :-)
Mike, this is the mainstream backdrop to the persona and actual recording style
of Pat Boone - and this includes his uptempo rock and roll records:
(found at
http://www.history-of-rock.com/1950s.htm )
"Post World War II was a prosperous and confident America. Middle class white
Americans began flocking to the new suburbs in pursuit of their dreams. There,
they found nice houses in pleasant neighborhoods where there was no need to lock
ones doors. An ideal atmosphere to raise children with neighbors functioning
much as an extended family. The TV show "Here Comes the Nelsons " typified such
families. The songs of the early{-mid} fifties reflected this and generally had
light melodies, sweet lyrics and wholesome singers. Innocent and inoffensive
"feel-good" tunes, which genuinely reflected the mood of post World War II
America {for this middle-class demographic}."
Geoff