BAGPIPE> KRON PIPES
Gretton + Willems
>>SQZP...@aol.com wrote: > > Dave > > Are you speaking for
>>Kron, the company or as an individual who just happens to >
>>work for Kron? > > Rob
>>All of the above..
In that case, I would be fascinated to hear what C.E. Kron & Co. might have
to say about the "Piper & Drummer" drone survey's verdict on their pipes
(February 1996). (Perhaps you could remind non-readers of "P&D" of just
what the survey concluded. You seem to like straight talking.)
Cheers,
Paul
7:50 PM CET
24 August 1998
*******************************************
Present mirth hath present laughter.
(Twelfth Night)
*******************************************
madman
To put it mildly,our pipes were lambasted on all accounts.This was not
P&D's finest
hour,although I have nothing against them.Anyone on this NG who has seen
or heard our
pipes can attest to the fact that P&D's results were pure rubbish.A lot
of pipemakers
did not even enter the survey,and now I know why...perhaps they were
privy to some inside info.,that we were not.Who is qualified to judge
making,other than another maker,
and even then,standards being so low,they are only qualified to a
certain point.
Not one individual who has seen our pipes can deny that they are by all
accounts,
the most gorgeous set,they have seen.I welcome anyone on this NG to
attest to this
statement.Your post was nothing more than a not so clever guise of
sarcastic content Imagine your piping being critiqued by Itzhak
Perlman,you tune up ,salute him,
and proceed to play The royal Scottish Pipers Society,flawlessly,but
then your competitor gets up and plays Scotland the
Brave,half-assed.After hearing Scotland the brave,Itzhak Perlman scores
your competitor much higher,and awards him first prize.
Your recourse would be zero.I'm sure you see my point....and I doubt you
have ever
seen,heard or played our bagpipes,because if you had ,you wouldn't make
such
superfluous and insinuating comments..you have no idea what you are
missing out on.
Dave
Andrew Berthoff
survey of modern Highland bagpipe drones in the February 1996 edition of
the magazine (which also includes an excellent interview with Willie
Connell).
We were delighted with the response from bagpipe makers, and only one maker
said they opted out because of the actual review process.
You can find information on obtaining back issues by visiting our site at
http://www.PiperAndDrummer.com
Cheers,
Andrew Berthoff
Toronto, Ontario
madman <da...@idt.net> wrote in article <35E1C6...@idt.net>...
madman
>
> Readers can decide for themselves about the quality of the Piper & Drummer
> survey of modern Highland bagpipe drones in the February 1996 edition of
> the magazine
The quality of that survey hinges directly on who did the survey,
which at this point in time ,remains a mystery..unless P&D
would like to disclose to us the surveyors involved...Dave
bill davidson
be so opiniated. Score: Dave 1, the rest of the world 99.
Donald Smith
Ok, ok.....Speaking as someone who actually has some EXPERIENCE with
Kilgour Kron pipes, with enough real piping experice to know what I am
talking about, here it goes..... I will vouch that they are very well
made with attention to detail. The wood is the best quality I have seen
in a long time, the projecting mounts are well done and I regularly deal
with many makes of pipes. I was well pleased with the woods density and
quality. The drones have a very nice tone....good enough to stand out in
a crowd and be noticed favorably. Over all I have been very pleased with
them. I have never tried the Kron chanter, so I can't vouch for its
quality or tone. I have had the following problems...... I would be
interested to know if they have been resolved. I bought several sets
mounted with chrome ferrules which I suspect were too tight . I think
they were the cause of the following problems. I had 2 sets of ferrules
pop open at the seams (Charlie Kron replaced them with no argument and I
got them quickly) I also had problems with 2 of the bass drone tuning
chambers on two sets being too tight where the ferrules were, then
looser above the ferrule, which made it hard to tune the drone because
it was tight then too loose as you tuned the drone inward. I SUSPECT
that the ferrule was just too tight, and when the wood swelled slightly
with playing, it had no room to expand except inward causing and uneven
bore in this area. I gently removed some wood from the chamber under the
ferrule, and have had no further problems otherwise the bores are VERY
well done, I am pleased with the several sets in my band, and the ones I
bought for my students. Aside from the problems with the 2 sets of
drones, they have served well, and sound excellent (At least one set get
very hard use and abuse, and is holding up well). I would say they are
much better than most of the NEW and very many of the OLD sets out
there. I have nothing to gain by this reveiw, and wouldn't know Charlie
Kron or Dave if I saw them. I also have several other makes of pipes in
my band and have various opinions of them. I am just tired of all the
people who know nothing of the pipes mentioned making such wild claims
both ways. I suggest you track down the pipes in question on both sides
of this argument and check them out for your selves. I always apreciate
information by people who know first hand. But would always check it out
for myself. Pipes can vary widely over the years in quality as a pipe
maker gets better, sells the co. to someone else etc. I have seen pipes
with the same brand stamp on them that don't even resemble each other in
quality or workmanship soo.....Don't hang too much on a name untill you
see what you are getting here and now, not what your friend got ten
years ago.
p/m Don Smith
--
PIPER AT LARGE (sd...@utah.uswest.net)
White Peaks Pipe Band
http://www.angelfire.com/ut/sdon/index.html
Raist...@aol.com
very helpful to hear a detailed opinions from an experienced piper. Now for
the question. You say you have had experieces with many sets of pipes, have
you ever had or has anyone else on the NG had experiences with Naill pipes.
I'm in the market for a new set of pipes and my pipe teacher, from what he has
heard, says that Naills are the best sounding. Do you have any opinions on
these pipes? Such as their crafstmanship, how they compare to gibson, kron,
old set of pipes ( such as henderson), or any other details? Thanks for any
input.
Andrew Berthoff
of their art or profession, who are respected by their peers. Anyone who
reads the publication knows this to be essential criteria for contributors,
whether their identity is divulged or not.
Clearly, if C.E. Kron & Co. had felt this was not the case, the company
would not have chosen to participate in the survey.
To the company's credit, it did. Many would be suspicious of a company NOT
willing to put its product on the line.
Cheers,
Andrew Berthoff
Toronto, Ontario
madman <da...@idt.net> wrote in article <35E1FC...@idt.net>...
Jan
>Hmmm well I guess when I want "gorgeous pipes" I'll consider them. But I
>actually hope to play mine, and that they'll sound like pipes. I must note
>that not a word was spoken as to the "sound" of your pipes. Isn't that the
>point?
I haven't been following this thread at all, but a player in my band has
Kron pipes and they are GORGEOUS sounding. He sounds like a different
piper, and is getting such a beautiful sound out of them - he's a beginner,
too, and had been playing borrowed Henderson's or some such (something old,
prestigious, and difficult to set up). I am extremely impressed with these
pipes, and, in the band, have the opportunity to hear and tune a lot of
different types.
Maybe he just got a good set but I'd recommend them to anyone.
Jan
Janice Richey
Pipe Major
MacIntosh Pipe Band
Formerly the McIntosh Flashers: "Expose yourself to piping!"
bill davidson
subject. The sound of the pipes wan't really the issue, it was the attitude
and bad mouthing coming from a certain maker of pipes. Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Jan <jan...@well.com>
To: bag...@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu <bag...@piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu>
Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 2:30 PM
>Subject: Re: BAGPIPE> KRON PIPES
Charles Kron
Andrew Berthoff wrote:
> All contributors to the Piper & Drummer are those who have reached the top
> of their art or profession, who are respected by their peers. Anyone who
> reads the publication knows this to be essential criteria for contributors,
> whether their identity is divulged or not.
>
> Clearly, if C.E. Kron & Co. had felt this was not the case, the company
> would not have chosen to participate in the survey.
>
> To the company's credit, it did. Many would be suspicious of a company NOT
> willing to put its product on the line.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Berthoff
> Toronto, Ontario
Hi, Andrew.
When I sent those pipes to be reviewed I expected raves. But in retrospect
there is no one on earth qualified to judge disinterestedly the objective
aspects of pipe making craftsmanship; anyone with enough knowledge will have an
ax to grind, and that violates your own magazine's principles of judging. No
piper who is not also a maker can possibly have an eye for the finer points of
craftsmanship.
As for the subjective aspects of craftsmanship, aesthetics, there are some
things that are preferred (or in some cases required) from an engineering
standpoint. But judging the pure art of shapes and suchlike is like judging
artistic merit in figure skating. There are accepted conventions, just as in
the playing of pipes. Some makers have very eccentric shapes, but so what? For
me, looking at their pipes is like listening to a piper who plays all his
embellishments backwards.
Now for the last important aspect of pipes: sound. This is mostly subjective,
so I'll not dwell so long on it. A few of your reviewers' comments in this area
were most distressing for me, but my many customers, many of whom are excellent
players, assure me that our pipes are second to none in the more objective
aspects of sound.
The results of your survey still mystify me.
-Charley Kron
Charles Kron
bill davidson wrote:
> Jan, You missed tons and tons of mail over the past week or so on this
> subject. The sound of the pipes wan't really the issue, it was the attitude
> and bad mouthing coming from a certain maker of pipes. Bill
She was responding to a specific point about sound.
-Charley Kron
Andrew Berthoff
issue of the Piper & Drummer can obtain that back issue and decide for themselves.
Just visit http://www.PiperAndDrummer.com for information on ordering back issues,
subscribing, and lots more great stuff.
Cheers,
Andrew Berthoff
Toronto, Ontario
madman
>
> Come on Dave...You lost this one! Let it go. Next time at least try not to
-Wow,a real live referee
madman
The sets of pipes you describe were made with chrome ferrules because
that is specifically what a dealer, requested,despite trying to talk him
out of it.The guage of those ferrules was quite thin,hence our
apprehension to use them.They were put on tight,but not too tight.
Apparently the alloy was not particularly strong,and chrome plating
further changes the alloy as well.A ferrule is pretty useless if it is
not counteracting the outward pressure exerted from the hemp,especially
swollen hemp,on any piece put inside a bore.No tuning chamber remains
perfectly round for very long,they tend to go ever so slightly oval,
and need to be rereamed from time to time,this is the nature of wood.
A few thousandths will do the trick.The problem is that the chamber will
most likely do this when they are first exposed to moisture,or when they
are subject to a climactic change,this is very common and even happens
to very old pipes as well.
piperich
area as "religous differences". Good tone is in the ear of the beholder.
While most people can generally agree that classic Hendersons are THE
benchmark for sound, beyond that it's what you personally and judges on the
your score sheet try to come to terms with.
In the current debate, I must weigh in on the side of Kron pipes. I have
just received a set and can honestly say that I have only played two sets
better. 1860 Douglas Pipes, and some old Hendersons. Frankly, given a few
years, I think Kron will compete with both of these. They are very, very
good.
The chanter is very well balanced on every note, my one complaint to date
is that the low G is flaty, blaty but this can be corrected.
Raist...@aol.com wrote in article <18d63353...@aol.com>...
Chris Hamilton
my testimonial vis-a-vis C.E. Kron & Co.
In 1994, after a three-year hiatus, I began piping again. Thoughtlessly, I
began to play my pipe (the 100-year-old Mighty MacDougalls) regularly with no
attention given to oiling. An existing hairline crack in my middle tenor top
split open like a shifting tectonic plate. D'oh!
I asked Jimmy McIntosh who I should have fix these - he recommended Charlie
Kron. I didn't know a thing about the company, but I called Kron and they
said repair would not be suitable - only replacement of the part. That
sounded a little dicey to me. Reluctantly, I sent the parts up and crossed my
fingers.
The new drone top arrived in a short period of time (a couple of weeks). It
was a gorgeous replica of the original, save that it was in African Blackwood
instead of Ebony. The combing, the dimensions, all perfectly true to the
model. Of course, that don't mean jack if it fails to deliver the tone.
To my surprise, it played beautifully - indistinguishable from the original.
The fabulous sound and no difficulty with reeds or tuning. Made me a happy
camper.
So, Kron & Co. knows pipes.
Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Hamilton -- tone...@erols.com
City of Washington Pipe Band
http://www.serve.com/cowpb/chamilton.html
co...@geocities.com
Are you now playing Mighty MacKronDougalls?
Sory, couldn't help it! ;)
Brian C.
http://www.stcolumcille.com/
In article <6s2nde$t90$2...@winter.news.erols.com>,
--
Brian C.
http://www.stcolumcille.com/
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Chris Hamilton
>So Chris,
>
> Are you now playing Mighty MacKronDougalls?
I call them The Mostly MacDougalls now, since the bass bottom is a Roddy
MacLellan replacement, which leaves only 5/7 of the original drone parts.
Michael Duell
Careful Chris,
They're beginning to sound like the Cadillac that
Johny Cash sang about in "One Piece at a Time". When
he went to register it he claimed that it was a '57
'58 '59 '60 .... automobile.
Mike
---Chris Hamilton <tone...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> co...@geocities.com wrote:
>
> >So Chris,
> >
> > Are you now playing Mighty MacKronDougalls?
>
> I call them The Mostly MacDougalls now, since the
bass bottom is a Roddy
> MacLellan replacement, which leaves only 5/7 of the
original drone parts.
>
> Chris
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Chris Hamilton -- tone...@erols.com
> City of Washington Pipe Band
> http://www.serve.com/cowpb/chamilton.html
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Chris Hamilton
>They're beginning to sound like the Cadillac that
>Johny Cash sang about in "One Piece at a Time". When
>he went to register it he claimed that it was a '57
>'58 '59 '60 .... automobile.
I LOVE that song !!! Though in the song he says "And it didn't cost me a
dime." I can't say that ...
Let's see now ... the full makeup of the instrument is:
Outside tenor stock -- MacDougall
Outside tenor bottom -- MacDougall
Outside tenor top -- MacDougall
Middle tenor stock -- MacDougall
Middle tenor bottom -- MacDougall
Middle tenor top -- C. Kron
Bass stock -- MacDougall
Bass bottom -- R. MacLellan
Bass middle -- MacDougall
Bass top -- MacDougall
Blowpipe stock -- J. Gibson
Blowpipe -- British Shop (a bogo-Winstanley)
Chanter stock -- C. Kron
Chanter -- J. Gibson
That makes 8 of 14 pieces from the original set or 57% ... hence the Mostly
MacDougalls moniker.
Chris
+-------------------------------------------+
| Chris Hamilton --- tone...@erols.com |
| City of Washington Pipe Band |
| http://www.serve.com/cowpb/chamilton.html |
+-------------------------------------------+
Roger McDowall
wrote:
>Hi, Andrew.
>When I sent those pipes to be reviewed I expected raves.
Most manufacturers would, but surely you should be open to comment or
criticism.?
If you only submit to be approved this negates the whole purpose of
reviews and they become free and non respected advertising.
> But in retrospect
>there is no one on earth qualified to judge disinterestedly the objective
>aspects of pipe making craftsmanship; anyone with enough knowledge will have an
>ax to grind, and that violates your own magazine's principles of judging. No
>piper who is not also a maker can possibly have an eye for the finer points of
>craftsmanship.
This confuses the role of the buyer and the seller(and player)
>As for the subjective aspects of craftsmanship, aesthetics, there are some
>things that are preferred (or in some cases required) from an engineering
>standpoint. But judging the pure art of shapes and suchlike is like judging
>artistic merit in figure skating. There are accepted conventions, just as in
>the playing of pipes. Some makers have very eccentric shapes, but so what? For
>me, looking at their pipes is like listening to a piper who plays all his
>embellishments backwards.
>Now for the last important aspect of pipes: sound. This is mostly subjective,
>so I'll not dwell so long on it. A few of your reviewers' comments in this area
>were most distressing for me, but my many customers, many of whom are excellent
>players, assure me that our pipes are second to none in the more objective
>aspects of sound.
Sound is invariably subjective, frequencies and pitch are objective.
My media centre will produce pipe pitch and tone very accurately but
it does not produce the feel and sensitivity of a piper and is purely
mechanical.
>The results of your survey still mystify me.
>-Charley Kron
Le durachdan
Roger
http://www.sagart.force9.co.uk
