confess now
KIEF102387
for a first place Kron on Johns experiment, surely if you have any dignity you
will respond and stand up for your opinion and *beliefs*, in which case you
will then be severly flamed, "Whether tis nobler in the mind......or to take
arms against a sea of troubles" whats it gonna be laddie (I say youre yella).
?????????
? The Kieffer?LOL
??????????
"na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na
Batman"
Royce Lerwick
>I have something to ask thats been erking me for a while: Who was the lone vote
>for a first place Kron on Johns experiment, surely if you have any dignity you
>will respond and stand up for your opinion and *beliefs*, in which case you
>will then be severly flamed, "Whether tis nobler in the mind......or to take
>arms against a sea of troubles" whats it gonna be laddie (I say youre yella).
What is your problem with Kron? Just like I said it ranked up with the
best in a blind test. The point of a blind test is nobody knows who
cast that vote until those conducting the test tell them--dumbass.
Royce
Dave Nicoll
KIEF102387 wrote:
>
> no sir you are the dumbass, surely if this person exists he would certainly
> know which number he had picked.
Well I think I have to weigh in with Royce here. While the one person
with such exquisite taste certainly knows who he is, he is under no
obligation to share with you.
Dave
KIEF102387
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>
>
>KIEF102387 wrote:
>>
>> no sir you are the dumbass, surely if this person exists he would certainly
>> know which number he had picked.
>
>Well I think I have to weigh in with Royce here. While the one person
>with such exquisite taste certainly knows who he is, he is under no
>obligation to share with you.
>
>Dave
And my real point is that whoever the guy was, and assuming he
remembers what numbers he had arranged in what order at the time, he
wasn't voting for Kron, he was voting for a sound with a number
attached to it. Not the same thing at all.
Royce
(And by the way, I couldn't get the samples playing in time to vote.)
KIEF102387
>with such exquisite taste certainly knows who he is, he is under no
>obligation to share with you.
> exquisite taste
id say unique taste is more appropriate. and youre right he dosent have to
share. he probably wont because if he reveals who he is he will have no
credibility whatsoever.
Royce Lerwick
What *I'd* really like to know is whether or not the phase 2 samples
were all run with the same Shepherd reed, or if they were just the
same samples from phase one, meaning the Naill wouldn't work with the
Shepherd reed and a Caldwell was used instead. It's hardly science to
include a sample at all in a test alleged to establish how the chanter
responds to a given common reed, and then not disallow a chanter that
wouldn't work at all or at least use a sample of that chanter sounding
like crap as an *objective* example of it's disfunction with the
alleged test reed.
I'd also like to know why I can play back the samples from phase one
without having to load it into an MP3 player.
Royce
KIEF102387
>were all run with the same Shepherd reed, or if they were just the
>same samples from phase one, meaning the Naill wouldn't work with the
>Shepherd reed and a Caldwell was used instead. It's hardly science to
>include a sample at all in a test alleged to establish how the chanter
>responds to a given common reed, and then not disallow a chanter that
>wouldn't work at all or at least use a sample of that chanter sounding
>like crap as an *objective* example of it's disfunction with the
>alleged test reed.
>
>I'd also like to know why I can play back the samples from phase one
>without having to load it into an MP3 player.
>
>Royce
mitchells definately pulling another fast one. you just cant trust a man like
that. he has full control of what everything sounds like,hes just not
trustworthy enough to be in that position. i heard he was getting some heat
from kron, and spent a little more time on them.I guess thats why it got that
ONE vote. ha ha.
???????????
?The Kieffer?
???????????
KIEF102387
>best in a blind test.
no it didnt, some lone piper voted for it. however i have no problem with
kron(in fact ive been told latley that kron did indeed make some giant steps
and are now able to be played in competition without shame) i only have a
problem with people who endorse inferior products....Royce
???????????
?The Kieffer?
???????????
John Mitchell
Royce Lerwick wrote:
>
> What *I'd* really like to know is whether or not the phase 2 samples
> were all run with the same Shepherd reed,
The answer is a big No! I used a reed that
Jim Hugkins from Aberdeen Supply, He can tell
you all about it about. mailto:aber...@wt.net
And you should have noticed that
the Naill I used in stage 2 is a newer one,
as the old one was fractured when
I dropped it on the floor.
But that's not relevant, due to
the nature of the experiment.
> I'd also like to know why I can play back the samples from phase one
> without having to load it into an MP3 player.
It's because stage 2 files were compressed with a better
quality compression method, Mainly MP3.
The original wav files are about 2.7meg in size.
That's why I said, that by this time next year, wav
files will not exist, so you better get setup with
an mp3 player. It will be the new standard.
lsrapm
>Royce Lerwick wrote:
>I'd also like to know why I can play back the samples from phase one
>without having to load it into an MP3 player.
The phase two files also didn't need an MP3 player. I played them in Cool
Edit and in Media Player. They were not the standard MP3 format, actually.
They were RIFF/WAV format. I have been using an MP3 compression program
called L3prod which gives you the option to save with the extension .mp3 or
.wav. (The compression ratio is just the same). If they are saved with the
.wav extension (The program calls it RIFF/WAV format) they still load into
several other media players (including WinAmp). This appears to be the
format that John has used. If they are saved with the .mpg extension, only
WinAmp can read them (at least that is my experience on my computer).
Chris Eyre
Royce Lerwick
<sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>And you should have noticed that
>the Naill I used in stage 2 is a newer one,
>as the old one was fractured when
>I dropped it on the floor.
I heard about that from the owner....
>The original wav files are about 2.7meg in size.
>
>That's why I said, that by this time next year, wav
>files will not exist, so you better get setup with
>an mp3 player. It will be the new standard.
Yeah, if it's a size problem that makes sense. It's already the new
high-end standard, but I think RealAudio will hang in there a while
yet on the low end. My Mp3 play just makes it hard to loader to load
the samples, but I'll have my idiot son working on it soon again and
maybe there's an easier way.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
Yeah, I read this wrong, or at least it was confusing, but let's put
John's several posts together and see if I can figure out how these
actually ranked:
Chanter#1=1984 Sinclair
Chanter#2=1995 Naill
Chanter#3=1999 Kron
Chanter#4-1996 Gibson
Chanter#5=1997 Shepherd(Poly)
Chanter#6=1997 Dunbar(poly)
..... 1st place
Chanter#1= 7
Chanter#2= 3
Chanter#3= 1
Chanter#4= 5
Chanter#5= 3
Chanter#6= 1
Vote total: 20
So the ranking is:
Sinclair-- 1st
Gibson-- 2nd
Naill-- 3d tie
Shepherd-- 3d tie (plastic)
Dunbar-- 4th tie (plastic)
Kron-- 4th tie
Royce
Of course, I guess you're suggesting these are all inferior products
and the comparison was not made against the best.
Royce Lerwick
<lsr...@NOSPAMceyre.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Royce Lerwick wrote:
>
>>I'd also like to know why I can play back the samples from phase one
>>without having to load it into an MP3 player.
>
>
>The phase two files also didn't need an MP3 player. I played them in Cool
>Edit and in Media Player. They were not the standard MP3 format, actually.
>They were RIFF/WAV format.
That'll be helpful, as I kept getting file format errors, and when I
get a moment I'll have my son explain what's going on entirely.
Royce
KIEF102387
>and the comparison was not made against the best.
.>I guess you're suggesting these are all inferior products
No Royce, just the one you endorse
. >and the comparison was not made against the best.
absolutely not , the( bests) were there and they are in their respected
interchangeable places, but there were some that were just out of their
leagueLOL?
?The Kieffer?.
madman
however i have no problem with
> kron(in fact ive been told latley that kron did indeed make some giant steps
> and are now able to be played in competition without shame)
First of all.....Our drone design hasn't changed one iota in 12 years.
So I have no idea what these so called "giant steps" are that you are
referring to.
In fact our drones have won some of the top competitions on the planet.
And so have our chanters......
You obviously have no experience playing our pipes...and I doubt you
have ever even heard or seen them.
Do us all a favor and sign your posts...and while you are at it, would
you mind posting your technical/machinists background...and your
dubious musical credentials....which are at best a big fat zero.
Ask Willie McCallum about his opinion of our drones and ask Ian Whitelaw
his opinion of our chanter.
KIEF102387
>So I have no idea what these so called "giant steps" are that you are
>referring to.
>In fact our drones have won some of the top competitions on the planet.
>And so have our chanters......
>You obviously have no experience playing our pipes...and I doubt you
>have ever even heard or seen them.
>Do us all a favor and sign your posts...and while you are at it, would
>you mind posting your technical/machinists background...and your
>dubious musical credentials....which are at best a big fat zero.
>Ask Willie McCallum about his opinion of our drones and ask Ian Whitelaw
>his opinion of our chanter.
>
yes ive played Krons for three miserable years, and no like many fools on this
ng I had to take calculus based physics instead of wood boring 101 in order to
get my Engineering degree. I also play piano, violin,viola and trombone and
minored in music, and no i would never sign my post nor put my name to
anything on the internet, call me crazy
??????????
?The Kieffer?
??????????
P.S. what competitions did they win? Id really like to know
David Williams
> Ask Willie McCallum about his opinion of our drones and ask Ian Whitelaw
> his opinion of our chanter.
What if you ask McCallum about the chanter and Whitelaw about the
drones?
Paul Gretton
>> Ask Willie McCallum about his opinion of our drones
No sooner said than done:
Willie, what do you think of Kron drones (and chanters)?
Cheers,
Paul Gretton
*****Present mirth hath present laughter.(Twelfth Night)*****
Royce Lerwick
>>Of course, I guess you're suggesting these are all inferior products
>>and the comparison was not made against the best.
>
>.>I guess you're suggesting these are all inferior products
>
>No Royce, just the one you endorse
I think you'd better go back to dejanews and pull out what I've really
said about the Kron chanter. The Kron pretty much finished up where I
personally rated it, where Chris Hamilton and John Mitchell and I all
openly rated it long before this test.
>. >and the comparison was not made against the best.
>
>absolutely not , the( bests) were there and they are in their respected
>interchangeable places,
That's rather a lot of BS, since there were large distances in the
rankings between the Sinclair and the Shepherd and Naill for instance.
They are hardly interchangeable, otherwise we'd have everyone voting
in cluster of 3 or 4 for every chanter but the Kron. In reality at
least one each put the Kron or Dunbar in 1st place after hearing all
the others, and if as you claim either one were entirely outclassed
this would be statistically impossible.
>but there were some that were just out of their
>leagueLOL?
>?The Kieffer?.
You obviously are.
I think that's interesting, as you continue in your adolescent,
"my-unit-is-bigger-than-your-unit" anal-stage sort of big-dickery. By
that logic you simply express only what has already been well
expressed by myself, and that is that the Sinclair is the single
greatest chanter ever made and in a class of its own. The chanter John
Mitchell endorses (Gibson)is dramatically inferior to it by the
numbers, the chanter Murray Henderson endorses (Naill) by the numbers
is dramatically inferior to both, and indeed was ranked even with a
plastic Shepherd--and as you will recall only I was bold enough to
sing the praises of even a plastic Shepherd, the actual subject of the
thread that started your Keifferness pissing and moaning about Kron in
the originating post, and all the NG whining about how I was
crucifying Murray Henderson and Naill associates et al.
As for the Kron, well, unless you care to say that the Dunbar is a
total piece of crap too, and that one guy who voted for it was a moron
or conspirator, so everyone can have a shot at you, given the chanters
it played off against in this woefully narrow body of voters, I don't
see that you've done anything to disprove my statement that the Kron
is good chanter and certainly not a dustbin candidate which a certain
dealer was claiming, at the start of your ridiculous harranguing.
But then, there are some interesting things to come out of this
limited experiment. One, as I reviewed the results I realized the
contest was not really as comprehensive as I'd thought it was going to
be. The question was asked, "which is best," which is not the same as
ranking them in order of preference. It certainly isn't the same as
saying, "pick the one you wouldn't play even if it was free," which is
what you in your gonadal crowings apparently imagine.
Two, it is obvious that those listening to the samples chose the
biggest noise, and the preference was directly weighted toward the big
band chanters, the Sinclair, and the Sinclair-knock-off, the Gibson.
That's what, in John's words, the voters were looking for. That, in
Dave Atherton's words, is almost exactly opposite of what the Kron was
designed to do. The Kron is specifically a solo chanter.
In the words of Murray Henderson, the loudest sound is not always the
best, and in the words of Willie McCallum, the instrument isn't being
judged, the piper is being judged. So, unless you're demanding a big
noise for a big grade 1 band, it still doesn't matter in fact which
chanter, certainly of this group you play. After all, the great Naill
solo standard (a fresh one sent in for the test) was tied by a plastic
Shepherd band chanter? A Gibson beat the Naill and Shepherd? The
Gibson hasn't done a thing in the solo world yet, how can it be a
better chanter than both the Naill and Shepherd, both of which have
won major contests at the hands of major players? And what, at the end
of the day, is buying a Sinclair over a Naill, or a Shepherd, or the
lowly Kron, going to gain the smartassed, smug, infantile little prick
attempting his first grade 2 solo contest? Not a damned thing.
So Kieffer, just play whatever you want.
But what it comes down to is, John set up 6 good chanters, and two of
them came out way on top, the Sinclair and the Gibson, at least for
the twenty people voting. Of those two, only the Sinclair really has a
background to boast of. Meanwhile, those not chosen in the test, the
Naill, Shepherd, both with big records of service, the Dunbar, a
venerable and proven winner, and yes, even the Kron, which despite
your repeated attempts to slander it, has under its belt a major open
contest won by a major open player in North America, have in no wise
been "proven" to be worthless as you suggest.
So from now on, go tell Ian Whitelaw and whoever the revered judge was
that gave him the trophy at Pleasanton they're tin-eared endorsers of
inferior Kron products, and get your mommy to wipe your little bottom
for you. Then you and Bill Carr can get together and tell Terry Tulley
and Rob Mathieson they know nothing about Ross bags. Then you can all
gang up on Jim MacGillivary and wrestle the Shepherd out of his
chanter stock, and make sure he still has his Ross chanter hose
connected.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
>yes ive played Krons for three miserable years,
Why? If they're so miserable why didn't you try another set? Or is it
just miserable because you're such an incompetent F-up you can't get
*any* set going? I can't see any other reason why you'd suffer through
such misery.
>and no like many fools on this
>ng I had to take calculus based physics instead of wood boring 101 in order to
>get my Engineering degree. I also play piano, violin,viola and trombone and
>minored in music,
Then go back to the piano, violin, viola and trombone.
>and no i would never sign my post nor put my name to
>anything on the internet, call me crazy
No, I'll call you a petty, pathetic loser. I like the ring of that
better.
> ??????????
> ?The Kieffer?
> ??????????
>P.S. what competitions did they win? Id really like to know
Gee, several of us have posted them repeatedly amid all your shitting
on Kron products, odd you never stopped shitting long enough to read
them. Odd too, that only now, after months and scores of pissy posts
from you, and repeated challenges for you to just spit out what your
beef with Kron was, you only now confess that you are indeed just a
disgruntled prick looking for any petty excuse to whine about your
Kron pipes. You and bagassedpiip go on and on about this invented
Kron-pimp empire I ruled, which you dreamed up in desperation, and now
it is revealed *you're* the one with a blatant personal agenda here.
And you guys thought Murray Henderson was stuck with a whiner over
those Naill drone bores....
Royce
Royce Lerwick
Just ask everyone about everything. Then let's have a party.
Royce
Chris Hamilton
> ...
>That's rather a lot of BS, since there were large distances in the
>rankings between the Sinclair and the Shepherd and Naill for instance.
>They are hardly interchangeable, otherwise we'd have everyone voting
>in cluster of 3 or 4 for every chanter but the Kron. In reality at
>least one each put the Kron or Dunbar in 1st place after hearing all
>the others, and if as you claim either one were entirely outclassed
>this would be statistically impossible.
> ...
Well, I'll be damned. I'm the guy who voted for Dunbar, followed very
closely by the Sinclair. The Naill was third. Each of them was 1st
in one pitch category.
The way I got my final tally was by ranking by pitch, awarding one
point per place, then taking the aggregate lowest scores over the
three pitches.
Only goes to prove my theorem, which I've postulated in this group
before, that if a chanter is well setup, accurately tuned and vibrant,
it's not that important if it's wooden or not. That's why I'm always
telling Grade 3 / 4 pipers not to waste big $$$ on a blackwood chanter
if it's not really going to help. Basics, basics like tuning and
execution come first.
I got a 3rd in the MSR at Delco in 1997 (about 12 or 13 players) using
a Shepherd polypenco (the band chanter) as an emergency fill-in for my
wooden Sinclair which just wasn't doing well that day. Jake Watson's
comment - "Bright full chanter sound".
So, yeah I'll fess up on the Dunbar, but I went back today and
re-listened to the files and I still think it sounded good.
The Gibson, Shepherd, and Kron were 4th through 6th respectively for
me.
Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Hamilton -- tone...@erols.com
City of Washington Pipe Band
http://www.serve.com/cowpb/chamilton.html
LJNev
So I have no idea what these so called "giant steps" are that you are
referring to.
In fact our drones have won some of the top competitions on the planet.
And so have our chanters......>>
I believe competitors win competitions, not instruments. BTW, what "top"
competitions were won and who won them using Kron products?
Zudupiper
>ng I had to take calculus based physics instead of wood boring 101 in order
>to
>get my Engineering degree. I also play piano, violin,viola and trombone and
>minored in music,
You're not the only engineer on the NG. How'd you ever find time to pick up a
minor in music ? ; )
Although a minor in English composition might have been of more use...
Zu
TOADMAN5O6
warmed up for me...
First.....Im a beginner...ive got a ratty set of old Hardies that i play right
now., BUT....the band im forming is about to all buy pipes, as it sits right
now im leaning towards McLellan's..and probably Shepard Poly chanters.
That being out of the way........i have listened to this pissing contest over
who makes the best chanters, and drones, and who has the biggest dick in the
playground and ive about had it...
Its REAL simple people....... you Play what you Like..if you Like Kron?? BUY
EM and play em...same for Naill, Shepard, Mcleod, Gibson, and whateer else
someone wants to play.
But frankly (and yes Keifer or whatever the heck your name is.... this means
YOU) Who the F**K is anyone here to downplay someone elses choice? If Royce or
John likes Kron..GREAT WTF difference does it make?? This Challenge thing
was made, they followed the rules, it was done blindly...but because YOU didnt
like the outcome....well now whoever made the vote you didnt like is a
coward...I WISH that it had been me..One day id like to be good enough to be
able to stand with some of you....but mainly Keif i wish it had been my vote
just so i could look you in the eye and tell you to go shit in your hat.
You've made it clear that you dont like Kron for whatever reason..........
.GREAT!!!!!!!!!!... WONDERFUL!!!!! ..DONT FREAKIN PLAY THEM!!!!! How hard
is that?
Is anyone on this NG going to lose sleep over anyone elses choice in
instrument?? i would hope not because if that IS the case it sounds like some
of you "Masters" out there need to remove your heads from your asses.
You want to try to guide me, or give me advice? great ill take any i
can get, and listen respectfully..... im new at this stuff, and frankly my
guys and I can use all the help we can get. BUT someone please explain to me
exactly WHAT this playground bullshit does to advance the genre that we play
in?
To hear some people around here talk, anyone who has any type of fun or
gets enjoyment from what we do is Ruining the GHB as an instrument. Anyone
that plays strictly for their own enjoyment and doesnt play competitions is a
waste of time....Id Like to play Cometitions with my guys one day but if we
never do? we're going to be the best we possibly can and play to the best of
our abilities..and the naysayers be damned.
So, tirade is over and ill put away the soapbox, Flame away, or help me out....
either way
Slāinte gu Brath
(oh and Gee i used my real name and the Dept i work for....gues sthe lightning
bolts will fall any second now Keif)
Al Kuhn
(Remove nospam for e-mail)
"Slāinte agus buaidh gu brāth le gillean an airgeadach targaid"
Kearny Police Pipes and Drums
Tim Sullivan
Naw. Have to say (with perhaps a tad less vitriol) "DITTO".
TOADMAN5O6 wrote in message
<19990314072501...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
madman
>
> yes ive played Krons for three miserable years,
Officially the name of this firm was started as "Kilgour and Kron".
The name of the firm did not change to "CE Kron & Co" until 1996.
From 1987 up until 1997 ,we did not ship to dealers.
All sales thru this firm were walk in retail sales.
Therefore....you had to have purchased your alleged "Krons" directly
thru us,since you have stated that you "played" them for three years.
So your date of purchase(alleged purchase)puts your purchase at the
1996 mark...long before we started shipping to dealers.
You are a blatant (and lousy)liar.
If these so-called three miserable years even existed...you are even
more incompetent a musician than I(we) suspect.
I only need 5 minutes with an instrument to verify its worth.
Maybe you are a glutton for self-punishment?
Your credibility is now zero.
and no like many fools on this
> ng I had to take calculus based physics instead of wood boring 101 in order to
> get my Engineering degree.
I highly doubt it.Your grammar alone puts you at about the 5th grade
level.....and if you had even a cursory knowledge of physics,
my posts,(the technical ones)would actually make sense to you ,and we
wouldn't be bickering back and forth.
I suppose if I asked if you could program an NC machine you would have
told us all about your 6 year degree from MIT,eh?
I also play piano, violin,viola and trombone and
> minored in music, and no i would never sign my post nor put my name to
> anything on the internet, call me crazy>
Ok ,you're crazy.
I'm sure you play all those instruments equally well<G>
Maybe you could answer a question of mine...surely with your musical
expertise,you should have no problem.
Please spell out the intervals of a diminished 9 chord?
Royce Lerwick
>Please spell out the intervals of a diminished 9 chord?
Uh, so you raise the root a half step...that's a minor
third...uh...just a minute, I'm looking it up....
Royce
Tim Sullivan
madman wrote in message <36EBE7...@idt.net>...
>KIEF102387 wrote:
>>
>> yes ive played Krons for three miserable years,
>That is a blatant lie ...simply by process of elimination I'll prove it.
>Officially the name of this firm was started as "Kilgour and Kron".
>The name of the firm did not change to "CE Kron & Co" until 1996.
>From 1987 up until 1997 ,we did not ship to dealers.
>All sales thru this firm were walk in retail sales.
>Therefore....you had to have purchased your alleged "Krons" directly
>thru us,since you have stated that you "played" them for three years.
Uh, not trying to support kieffer (God forbid!) here, but the timeframe
stipulated does not rule out sale To him FROM a prior owner (i.e.,
second-hand). Yeah, yeah, I know, that would still put the pipes into the
Kilgour and Kron era, but it does allow plausibility regarding the
time-frame.
>Your credibility is now zero.
It went up?
> and no like many fools on this
>> ng I had to take calculus based physics instead of wood boring 101 in
order to
>> get my Engineering degree.
>I highly doubt it.Your grammar alone puts you at about the 5th grade
>level.....and if you had even a cursory knowledge of physics,
>my posts,(the technical ones)would actually make sense to you ,and we
>wouldn't be bickering back and forth.
Lose not sight of the fact that Dilbert also has an Engineering degree.
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
> Uh, not trying to support kieffer (God forbid!) here, but the timeframe
>stipulated does not rule out sale To him FROM a prior owner (i.e.,
>second-hand). Yeah, yeah, I know, that would still put the pipes into the
>Kilgour and Kron era, but it does allow plausibility regarding the
>time-frame.
My main point on this is I've been demanding some explanation for his
singular bitching about anything vaguely even neutral about the Kron
product and he's only now come up with on, and one that as Dave's
pointed out should have been opened up immediately and specifics
demanded from him. But then, the research in the author history my
wife ran on him on dejanews indicates he's in his mid-late teens and
has only been playing two years if that, and he's from the NY area, so
maybe there's some other motive.
> Lose not sight of the fact that Dilbert also has an Engineering degree.
And Dilbert probably plays as well as Kieffer.
Royce
Zudupiper
I find it interesting to hear from people who know their stuff, and hear real
reasons why they like what they like. That's been the value of all this
"discussion".
> Who the F**K is anyone here to downplay someone elses choice?
It's rude to do that, like that... like saying "MacFloogle pipes are pieces of
crap and anybody who buys them is a fool". But if somebody knowledgeably
points out some problems with that maker, I'll listen.
There are rude bastards here and knowledgeable pipers too and not much overlap
between the categories. IMO.
>Id Like to play Cometitions with my guys one day but if we
>never do? we're going to be the best we possibly can and play to the best of
>our abilities..and the naysayers be damned.
That's the spirit!!!
Zu
TOADMAN5O6
vitriol....although my basic points i will stand by....unfortunately i spent 4
hours the night before dealing with a Drunk who was exceedingly
obnoxious.....not unlike one unnamed poster.......and the Bickering plucked my
last, and already frayed nerve......
Cheers....
aberdeen
>
>
> Yeah, I read this wrong, or at least it was confusing, but let's put
> John's several posts together and see if I can figure out how these
> actually ranked:
>
No need to put several posts together to figure out results. Just go to
the results page at <http://members.aol.com/bagpipeweb/gsc/index.htm>
Results are well laid out in graphic as well as tabular forms.
Thanks again to John and Bob for their efforts in putting together this
fun experiment.
Best regards,
Jim Hudgins
Aberdeen Bagpipe Supply
<http://www.aberdeenbagpipe.com>
LJNev
up please.
Chris Hamilton
>Still waiting to hear what major contests were won using Kron products... speak
>up please.
Iain Whitelaw (California) won some big piob. contest recently, so I
hear.
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>On 15 Mar 1999 17:16:13 GMT, lj...@aol.com (LJNev) wrote:
>
>>Still waiting to hear what major contests were won using Kron products... speak
>>up please.
>
>Iain Whitelaw (California) won some big piob. contest recently, so I
>hear.
Yes, the open at Pleasanton, which is probably the largest games in N.
America, and the biggest contest venue outside of Ontario.
Royce
Shawn Husk
Yeah I'll second that motion. William care to venture into
the old drone debate?
Shawn Husk
madman
I suggest someone start a new thread entitled "Willie ,your opinion
please"....I don't think he's online everyday like some of us.
Shawn Husk
> about Kron pipes....I have only heard good things from people here and
> from my pipe teacher and some of his students.. And does anyone have
> some good pictures of Kron pipes....Every picture I find is the same
> picture.....a bench with all of the pipe parts laid out...cant really
> check them out...no detail, on the finish or what they look like up
> close...(I know looks arent everything....)
>
> thanks
> steve
>
Steve, you would be very happy with a set of Kron pipes.
They are the finest looking set of pipes on the market today
in my opinion.
The turning of the wood is immaculate and all the ferrules
and mounts are threaded and glued on so you are assured of a
pipe that will never fall apart. Most modern makes of pipes
are only glued on thus after some time the ferrules and
mounts can become loose and fall off.
The finish on the Kron pipes is truly amazing. It shows off
the wood very nicely and doesn't hide any of the woods
beauty like heavy laquer will.
The drones have good tone and will do most pipers up to
Grade 2. If you ever get to Grade 1 or Open you'll want an
old vintage set (in most cases anyway) from the early
1900's. So this is a set that will make you very happy and
last a lifetime.
I am a dealer and have seen several set's of Kron's first
hand and they have always been immaculate and consistent.
Take care,
Shawn Husk
******************************
The Solo Piper
28 S. Center St.
Newton Falls, Ohio 44444
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>The drones have good tone and will do most pipers up to
>Grade 2.
The Kron drones, and nearly any other drone with a few exceptions,
will take you into grade one. The Krons easier than many.
>If you ever get to Grade 1 or Open you'll want an
>old vintage set (in most cases anyway) from the early
>1900's.
This is utter nonsense, and any number of pipes turned out tomorrow
and selling for less that a thousand US dollars will take you to the
top level of Open Professional play, including, Gibson, Naill,
Shepherd, Fletcher, The Glen reproductions from Sharp and Co, and some
others I'll think of after I upload this I'm certain.
Royce
Piobare
months ago. They are perhaps the best made and finest detailed pipes available
to the general public. Yes, you can purchase fancier, more ornate pipes. But
for those of us that want a quality instrument that is below the $1500US price
range, you can't beat them!
IMHO
Mike
Shawn Husk
> >If you ever get to Grade 1 or Open you'll want an
> >old vintage set (in most cases anyway) from the early
> >1900's.
Then Boob Lerwick (er, Royce I mean) wrote:
> This is utter nonsense, and any number of pipes turned out tomorrow
> and selling for less that a thousand US dollars will take you to the
> top level of Open Professional play, including, Gibson, Naill,
> Shepherd, Fletcher, The Glen reproductions from Sharp and Co, and some
> others I'll think of after I upload this I'm certain.
Then Shawn Husk Wrote:
Well Roycey boy if you had any idea what REAL tone was all
about you'd agree with my above statement. Sure you could
get away with playing Naills, Krons, or even Drumrans in
Open level professional play but why would you want to? And
Who for that matter is? I don't see Roddy MacLeod, Allisdair
Ghillies, Bill Livingstone or any number of other top
professional players using modern pipes in Open professional
competitions. Why is that Roycey my boy? Hmmmmm? I sure
would like to hear your set of pipes some day. Going to be
in my area anytime soon?
Shawn
doug campbell
>I don't see ... Allisdair
> Ghillies... or any number of other ...>
Jeez, if you're gonna invoke somebody's name in your defense you might
at least get the spelling CLOSE....
Doug C.
Chris Hamilton
Well now ...
Here are some well-respected professional-level players:
Mike Green -- Gibson bagpipes
Greg Abbott -- Gibson bagpipes
Jake Watson -- Gibson bagpipes
John Mitchells -- Gibson bagpipes
Jack Lee -- Naill bagpipes
Most All of SFU -- Naill bagpipes
Roddy MacDonald (London) -- Naill bagpipes
Not a bad list, and only a partial one at that ...
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>Then Shawn Husk Wrote:
>
>Well Roycey boy if you had any idea what REAL tone was all
>about you'd agree with my above statement. Sure you could
>get away with playing Naills, Krons, or even Drumrans in
>Open level professional play but why would you want to? And
>Who for that matter is? I don't see Roddy MacLeod, Allisdair
>Ghillies, Bill Livingstone or any number of other top
>professional players using modern pipes in Open professional
>competitions.
You've named four out of hundreds, the ones you read about in P&D.
>Why is that Roycey my boy?
Because they're all the absolute best and can afford the luxury. Of
course, you've completely overlooked the thousands playing in grade 1
for whom modern pipes are far far more than acceptable.
I think Gibson or Naill or Shepherd could name a few top players who
play "modern" pipes with great success. Maybe Murray Henderson could
name a few.
>Hmmmmm? I sure
>would like to hear your set of pipes some day. Going to be
>in my area anytime soon?
The interesting this is, I can at least play them. I don't think you
can say the same newbie. Take the corks out of your drones, you'll
sound better.
Royce
Shawn Husk
>
> Here are some well-respected professional-level players:
>
> Mike Green -- Gibson bagpipes
> Greg Abbott -- Gibson bagpipes
> Jake Watson -- Gibson bagpipes
> John Mitchells -- Gibson bagpipes
> Jack Lee -- Naill bagpipes
> Most All of SFU -- Naill bagpipes
> Roddy MacDonald (London) -- Naill bagpipes
>
> Not a bad list, and only a partial one at that ...
>
Point well taken Chris, but I'm still waiting on the
extensive list of Open players playing Drumrans and
Krons......
I guess I'll be waiting a long long time. ;)
Shawn
Shawn Husk
> The interesting this is, I can at least play them. I don't think you
> can say the same newbie. Take the corks out of your drones, you'll
> sound better.
>
> Royce
Hey Royce what do you know? You have no idea how well I can
play you dolt. I've heard your Zetland pipe cassette tape so
I know how you play.
Can you say the same about me? Ever heard me play?
Shawn
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>Point well taken Chris, but I'm still waiting on the
>extensive list of Open players playing Drumrans and
>Krons......
>
>I guess I'll be waiting a long long time. ;)
Yeah, you pipsweaking dickweed, since that's a claim only you're
making. But I'll bet you can find the long list of grade 1 players
with Glen reproductions I actually mentioned.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>>Can you say the same about me? Ever heard me play?
Everyone who knows you has given me a complete rundown.
Royce
http://www2.wavetech.net/~shetland/tunebook.html
Me playing.
Let's hear you playing now.
Royce Lerwick
Royce
http://www2.wavetech.net/~shetland/tunebook.html
Me playing.
Let's add Kieffer and Bagpiip to that challenge. It doesn't have to be
pretty. I just want to hear some fingers moving over a chanter to
reassure me you aren't all really just "fans."
Tony A.
URL.
All I could find was sombody playing a mushy birl excercise called the
"Hamster something or other" on a practice chanter like small pipe.
>http://www2.wavetech.net/~shetland/tunebook.html
dbell
> extensive list of Open players playing Drumrans and
> Krons......
Why? The intrument does not make the player. In some cases, having a poor
instrument can impede a student's progress, but having a great set of
drones won't make a mediocre player any better. It's also incredible what
a good player can do with a mediocre instrument.
In my opinion, all this bickering about whose pipes are 'good enough' to
be played in Open is a waste of time. If you're good enough to play in
Open, you can damn well tell for yourself what a good set of pipes sounds
like.
--
Daniel Bell
Heuer's Law: Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.
Fernetta
kief1...@aol.com (KIEF102387) wrote:
> yes ive played Krons for three miserable years, and no like many fools on this
> ng I had to take calculus based physics instead of wood boring 101 in order to
> get my Engineering degree. I also play piano, violin,viola and trombone and
> minored in music, and no i would never sign my post nor put my name to
> anything on the internet, call me crazy
> ??????????
> ?The Kieffer?
> ??????????
> P.S. what competitions did they win? Id really like to know
>
This guy thinks he's nipping at the heals of the lead dogs but what he
dosen't know is that he's not even in the hunt. The truth is he is chasing
his own tail and bitting himself in the a***!
Fernetta
You know your a pipers wife when he sits with his arm around his pipes
in the car just like he used to do to you when you were dating.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
madman
>
> > Well now ...
> >
> > Here are some well-respected professional-level players:
> >
> > Mike Green -- Gibson bagpipes
> > Greg Abbott -- Gibson bagpipes
> > Jake Watson -- Gibson bagpipes
> > John Mitchells -- Gibson bagpipes
> > Jack Lee -- Naill bagpipes
> > Most All of SFU -- Naill bagpipes
> > Roddy MacDonald (London) -- Naill bagpipes
> >
> > Not a bad list, and only a partial one at that ...
> >
>
> extensive list of Open players playing Drumrans and
> Krons......
>
>
Unfortunately,most of our sets go to dealers so I can't keep track of
who's getting what.....but just for instance ,Seumas Coyne played a set
of our drones at the metro cup, this year,and California is chock-a
block with open players who are Kron equipped.
About 30 % of our total sets per year go to grade 2 and above so
I don't know what you are whining about.
If you don't truly believe in the product(which you sell)my advice is
please,please
don't sell them.
I make the pipes to be heirlooms..not a throwaway piece of shite.
The GHB is an instrument which should be given the same amount of
care(in the making process)as a 15,000 dollar lorre oboe.
Unfortunately for us...the players are not discriminating enough(in
terms of quality),
for the market to bear such prices ,which is why there are so,so many
disposable sets of drones out there.
We don't give a damn...we still do what we have to do to make the pipes
properly,
the economics be damned...we work longer hours...we don't cut corners.
But I sleep good at night.
You just don't get it.....the reason the older pipes sound good is
because they were made in such a way (read,lots of care went into the
making)to allow the pipes to survive long enough to get to the point of
mellowing out a bit.
The vast majority of todays 1000 sets per-year crap will never last long
enough to get them to that point.
Remember that when the sole on your pipe chanter is rolling into the
gutter during a parade<G>
Plus...todays grade 3 are tomorrows open pro's ,and every instrument
manufacturer who gives a damn,realizes this and treats the beginner
piper with the same respect they'd give to a seasoned pro.
Besides in 50 years time there won't be any of the mass produced type-of
-bagpipes,left(save D.Naill & Co.),therefore ,the good stuff(Kron & Co.)
will be played en masse...if you can afford em' at that point.
Posterity means everything in a business where such unscrupulous
business
practices and pig-ignorance flows like water.
If I quit smoking these damn cigarettes I'll be alive to see that
glorious day,
you'll hear the giant laugh that eminates from the NY metro area.
I still say you should ask Wille McCallum for cooberation on the issue.
If that ain't enough...than nothing will be.
mark...@my-dejanews.com
"Tony A." <11210...@compuserve.com> wrote:
> I am sorry, I must have picked the wrong hot link on the below mentioned
> URL.
>
> All I could find was sombody playing a mushy birl excercise called the
> "Hamster something or other" on a practice chanter like small pipe.
And where might your instructional materials be found?
Mark
Zudupiper
>because they were made in such a way (read,lots of care went into the
>making)to allow the pipes to survive long enough to get to the point of
>mellowing out a bit.
Plus the wood was better back then.
My 1950's Robertsons don't seem exceptionally well-made internally (the bore
are not glassy-smooth like Kron drones, and some things are a little off-center
to me) but they sound good and they're sturdy.
There's a lot of wood on them. Plus they've had about 45 years of aging. I've
heard that it takes about 25-30 years for a given set of drones to start
sounding good.
And brandy-new Krons sound almost as good to me as my old Robbies do. So I
have to wonder how my Robbies are going to sound in 40 years, and how my
students' krons are going to sound then. When the guy who's now a grocery
clerk is collecting social security or whatever's there in 2039. It does give
you pause for thought.
>Besides in 50 years time there won't be any of the mass produced type-of
>-bagpipes,left(
But people will still be mass-producing pipes I'm sure....Drumran will have
moved production to Sialkot City foe example...and they'll be progressively
cheesier every year for the next 50.
And even when pipes were pipes (say back in the 1950's, or 1930's), weren't
some makers considered better than others? Probably we wouldn't recognize
their names today because few of the pipes survived?
Why is it that these days, there are tons of pipemakers? But how many names of
old, now-defunct pipemakers do most people recognize? Not a lot in comparison.
Robertson, MacDougall, Lawrie, Glen, etc, maybe a dozen "good" names. These
days there has to be at least twice that number of makers, and they make a lot
more pipes than any of the older makers could.
And as long as we're on the subject, how do old pipes manage to survive? Just
lucky? Or were pipers in ye olden days more conscious about maintenance and
knowledgeable about the instrument than we are today? Or were pipes in the old
days meant to last a long time? If so, why aren't there more old sets out
there?
The last time this subject was hashed out (a couple years ago) I think we
decided that old pipes are not necessarily good because they're old, they're
good because they're good (wood quality plus construction), and they just
happen to be old. Like good modern sets are good if they're good, not bad
because they're new, and good is good regardless of age, but old is not
necessarily good.
By now I've said more than I understand so I'll stop.
Zu
Paul Gretton
>>Besides in 50 years time there won't be any of the mass produced type-of
>>-bagpipes,left(save D.Naill & Co.)
A serious question:
How does Naill manage to keep up the standard despite mass production?
madman
> >mellowing out a bit.
>
> Plus the wood was better back then.
year basis as compared to today...they took longer to make because of
the care that went into assuring that the pipes would last...
This basically means letting the wood season longer=fewer pipes.
Plus the economics have changed...back in the hand-made days you
could have earned a nice living making bagpipes...
no wonder I'm always broke.
>
> My 1950's Robertsons don't seem exceptionally well-made internally (the bore
> are not glassy-smooth like Kron drones, and some things are a little off-center
> to me) but they sound good and they're sturdy.
Ol' Jimmy Robertson knew his shit.
>
> There's a lot of wood on them. Plus they've had about 45 years of aging. I've
> heard that it takes about 25-30 years for a given set of drones to start
> sounding good.
>
> And brandy-new Krons sound almost as good to me as my old Robbies do. So I
> have to wonder how my Robbies are going to sound in 40 years, and how my
> students' krons are going to sound then.
Kron drones kick ass,new ..old or whatever.
>
>
> But people will still be mass-producing pipes ....snip
Mind boggling,isn't it.Hopefully pipers will learn to respect their own
instrument and demand quality,like other musicians.
>
> And even when pipes were pipes (say back in the 1950's, or 1930's), weren't
> some makers considered better than others?
For arguments sake...lets just say pre-WW2.
The pipes were all "good" in a qualitative sense.
"Better" would mean tonal considerations and aesthetics and price.
The economics of the times allowed the makers to afford going the extra
mile,and actually having some pride(not ego,or a nice sales ledger)
in what they do.
Probably we wouldn't recognize
> their names today because few of the pipes survived?
Just like today there were very small makers who made great stuff.
Its still around...just not a lot of it...kind of like Rookwood vases.
>
> Why is it that these days, there are tons of pipemakers?
When the customer doesn't demand quality it opens up the door for
anyone who has access to some wood and imitation ivory.
Technology has changed things a bit too.
Computer-numeric control machines didn't exist pre-WW2.
But how many names of
> old, now-defunct pipemakers do most people recognize? Not a lot in comparison.
>
> Robertson, MacDougall, Lawrie, Glen, etc, maybe a dozen "good" names. These
> days there has to be at least twice that number of makers, and they make a lot
> more pipes than any of the older makers could.
Its more like 20X instead of 2X.Yet only 10% or so will be around for
very long.....so things are about equal.
>
> And as long as we're on the subject, how do old pipes manage to survive?
Geritol and a good HMO.
Just
> lucky? Or were pipers in ye olden days more conscious about maintenance and
> knowledgeable about the instrument than we are today? Or were pipes in the old
> days meant to last a long time?
Bingo...
If so, why aren't there more old sets out
> there?
There's tons of em'....Go to Scotland and tell the locals your an attic
inspector.
>
>
Royce Lerwick
And that latter point continues to be the source of consternation with
Shawn. In this case, after a previous refusal to support the Kron
chanter, inasmuch as he was refusing to even sell it, and this in
favor of the Gibson product which he praised to High Heaven, he
slights the Gibson he was just boasting about, and which was voted in
P&D and all over the NG as the greatest set of drones in the world,
comparing them with all the greats of the the past.
I don't want to keep hammering on the Kron issue, because as Dave
points out there is enough evidence out there for the NG or anyone
else to make some sort of informed decision on that, but I though the
whole Gibson drone/chanter thing was accepted by Husk and the
big-noises as a given situation. And then, related to the previous
Kron-bashing from Husk on the chanter issue, was an entire subtext
evolving around making sure Naill got its fair due, and as Chris
Hamilton pointed out, there are so many Naill drones in so many grade
1 bands and so many top soloists--not to mention the solo chanter
users--that this too seemed a completely weird departure from what was
determined to be the NG consensus about Naill as well.
Again, I'm not going to whine about Kron because I don't have to, the
instrument has already been played in open contests and taken medals
over the aforementioned "great" instruments, believe that or not. But
I shouldn't have to be arguing with a Gibson dealer about the ability
of those drones (the drones at least for sure) to play in world-class
band or solo contests, because they are not new as are the Krons, they
are all over the place, and I should not have to be arguing with
anyone about the ability of Naill drones or chanter to play in open
solo contests for similar reasons. I won't even suggest Shepherds, but
again, there they are doing what Husk claimed they are not adequate to
do all over the place.
In summary, you don't need to pick up a "vintage" set of pipes to play
in grade 1 or open. Ever. Make a good choice on "modern" pipes and 50
years from now people will be citing *you* and *your* "vintage" pipes
as examples of what it takes to play in top solo form.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
<10060...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>madman wrote:
>
>>>Besides in 50 years time there won't be any of the mass produced type-of
>>>-bagpipes,left(save D.Naill & Co.)
>
>A serious question:
>
>How does Naill manage to keep up the standard despite mass production?
"Standard" comes in two parts, the technical or execution of the
design, and the basic design. You can mass produce a basic design
easily and with any sort of quality control they will sound great.
Technically speaking however, how everything is "bolted" together and
the stability of the materials used etc, may not be that great, and in
the long-run, leave all the bores warped and cracked, and all the
mountings lost in the gutter eventually. I wouldn't specifically imply
this of Naill but I do know of other makers where chanters turned into
literal corkscrew-shapes within a few months of purchase. But hey,
they still sounded good. (Except for one maker which will go unnamed.
In that case they were corkscrews and sounded bad on top of it.)
Royce
Chris Hamilton
(Royce Lerwick) wrote:
>In summary, you don't need to pick up a "vintage" set of pipes to play
>in grade 1 or open. Ever. Make a good choice on "modern" pipes and 50
>years from now people will be citing *you* and *your* "vintage" pipes
>as examples of what it takes to play in top solo form.
Absolutely. Sometimes people forget that the MacDougall or the
Henderson or the Lawrie was at one time a new "modern" pipe, and there
were probably plenty of rubbish sets around too from various makers.
As Royce says there, the key is make a "good choice" on modern pipes.
They're out there ...
madman
But
> I shouldn't have to be arguing with a Gibson dealer about the ability
> of those drones (the drones at least for sure) to play in world-class
> band or solo contests,
>"because they are not new as are the Krons,"
Krons are the same drone design as are Kilgour and Krons as are the
same as "kilgours of Strathspey" which are the same as "kilgours of
Edinburgh" which started up circa 1968.
I believe Gibson was still experimenting up until the mid -80's,
where at one point a certain set of MacDougalls(re-reamed to Glen specs,
)magically appeared in his shop.
So,in essence Royce...Gibby is the real Johnny-come-lately,
but then again I consider anyone who wasn't apprenticed pre-WW2,
(or has a link to the past) to be a hack .
Georges apprenticeship began in 1941 when he was 14.
BTW...George Kilgour is the worlds oldest(yet venerable)bagpipe maker.
He still makes at 17 Grove Street...Edinburgh.
Ajdcjd
about this great resource I found, namely this newsgroup, he quickly pointed
out that he USED to regularly join discussions here, but quit. Why? Because
he got tired of the useless bickering. He didn't tire of the enlightened
debate, only the childish stuff. He began mentioning names that still exist on
the NG. I was pretty amazed that he was so turned off, but I am slowly
understanding. I just wanted everyone to know that how they act here does
affect others. I happen to think my instructor is brilliant, but no one else
on this NG can benefit from his knowledge, because he doesn't join in anymore.
That's all.
Adam
gasd...@yahoo.com
> Plus the wood was better back then.
I agree with Dave's comments on the wood, but I have to bring up that a
lot of those wonderful-sounding old pipes, pre-WWI, were not made from
blackwood. I'm actually pretty convinced that *tonally* it's not the
best material for the pipes. It may be the best as far as *durability*
is concerned.
I was lucky enough to come into a late-1700s set of MacDonald pipes made
from cocus. Two VERY small cracks, otherwise the wood's in perfect shape.
With a cane set of reeds (or even Cairns-Indian), there's no way you could
get me to trade them for a new set made out of blackwood.
The only set I've heard recently that I really liked was a pink ivory set
of Krons. Amazing tone. Not blackwood! ('Course, I think the Kron design
had SOMETHING to do with it!)
> My 1950's Robertsons don't seem exceptionally well-made internally (the bore
> are not glassy-smooth like Kron drones, and some things are a little off-center
> to me) but they sound good and they're sturdy.
Yeah, the old makers knew what the heck they were doing. Most old sets don't
appear "perfect" if you look at them through our eyes, but the SOUND is what's
important.
> And as long as we're on the subject, how do old pipes manage to survive? Just
> lucky? Or were pipers in ye olden days more conscious about maintenance and
> knowledgeable about the instrument than we are today? Or were pipes in the old
> days meant to last a long time? If so, why aren't there more old sets out
> there?
As Dave mentioned, there may very well be bunches, even band-loads of old
pipes out there no one knows about. I think these MacDonalds survived
because (a) whoever played them took excellent care of them, and (b) when
they weren't being played, they were in stable conditions. A basement might
be a better place than an attic . . . don't quote me on that. The other
reason could be the wood used. Blackwood is DARN oily, and if properly
seasoned can take a lot. Cocus and ebony are considerably less oily and are
therefore a lot more sensitive to changes in conditions.
I have to say, though, I think there are some excellent modern pipemakers out
there. From playing my old pipes, though, and playing those pink ivory
Krons, I have to say . . . don't reject the pipes because they're not
blackwood. And, I personally wouldn't reject a pipe because it's made out of
cocobolo either; just because the dust is allergenic doesn't mean you'll go
into anaphylactic shock from playing a set. The mouthpiece isn't going to be
cocobolo, and not everyone's sensitive to the dust.
Off the soapbox!
Stuart
Alasdair & Kirsty Anderson
>You just don't get it.....the reason the older pipes sound good is
>because they were made in such a way (read,lots of care went into the
>making)to allow the pipes to survive long enough to get to the point of
>mellowing out a bit.
>The vast majority of todays 1000 sets per-year crap will never last long
>enough to get them to that point.
>Remember that when the sole on your pipe chanter is rolling into the
>gutter during a parade<G>
>Plus...todays grade 3 are tomorrows open pro's ,and every instrument
>manufacturer who gives a damn,realizes this and treats the beginner
>piper with the same respect they'd give to a seasoned pro.
>Besides in 50 years time there won't be any of the mass produced type-of
>-bagpipes,left(save D.Naill & Co.),therefore ,the good stuff(Kron & Co.)
>will be played en masse...if you can afford em' at that point.
>Posterity means everything in a business where such unscrupulous
>business practices and pig-ignorance flows like water.
>If I quit smoking these damn cigarettes I'll be alive to see that
>glorious day,
>you'll hear the giant laugh that eminates from the NY metro area.
>I still say you should ask Wille McCallum for cooberation on the issue.
>If that ain't enough...than nothing will be.
This puts me in mind of a book I came across on violin making. The authors
opinion (as an instrument maker himself) was that the fad of going for
Cremona made violins was a waste of time as the current generation of violin
makers was far superior, and stated that history would show him to be right
as musicians came to play violins made by his contemporaries (book published
c.1890) rather than the Cremona violins of Guarini and Stradivarius.
I'm not trying to make a comparison with the present situation, just
pointing out that as the saying goes, 'Prediction is very difficult,
especially with respect to the future'.
My personal opinion is that there have always been a lot of pipe makers, of
varying levels of quality. There may even have been wide variations in
quality from individual makers. However, when it comes to the quality pipes
that are produced, the owners will do more to preserve them than for the
crap that came of the lathe of the man next door. This means that the bad
pipes get dumped, and the good ones preserved.
If you buy a set of pipes that have been in use since e.g.1920, they are
likely to be good, otherwise why would anyone bother to keep them going. If
you buy a set brand new, you don't have that probability working in your
favour, and you have to look at other factors (As far as I can see, pride in
the product is a pretty big factor).
However, in seventy years time when we have all given up playing, most of
the useless sets that are around now will have gone to meet their maker
(Burning in the fires of Hell?), and people could well be saying 'buy a set
from the 20th Century - they made really great pipes then - and if you can
get a Kron or a Naill (or insert your preferred pipe maker), Wow!'
Alasdair Anderson
Bagpiip
several people who had been on this NG, and left for the same reasons.
Can't we all just get along???? <G>
But some of the flames are kind of harsh here...
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri traghadh's ri lionadh.
Bagpiip
>add Bagpiip to that challenge. <
Bagpiip
there? I think someone must've hacked into that site...<G>
>All I could find was sombody playing a mushy birl excercise called the
>"Hamster something or other" on a practice chanter like small pipe.
KIEF102387
>dosen't know is that he's not even in the hunt. The truth is he is chasing
>his own tail and bitting himself in the a***!
Hey, Fernetta thanks for the imput. you sound like a sweetheart. although some
others might say you sound fat and lowlife like, i say they are wrong!
certainly with word choice as eloquent as yours you must be a classy woman,
after all you wouldnt be on this ng if you werent, such classy men like madman
and markalee wouldnt allow it. so i say keep doing what your doing hey if it
kills the time in those backhills why not..hmmm... fernetta what a lovely name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
??????????
?The Kieffer?
??????????
"truth=negation(sarcasm)" The Kieffer
Shawn Husk
>
> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:01:20 -0500, Shawn Husk <shaw...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >Point well taken Chris, but I'm still waiting on the
> >extensive list of Open players playing Drumrans and
> >Krons......
> >
> >I guess I'll be waiting a long long time. ;)
>
> making. But I'll bet you can find the long list of grade 1 players
> with Glen reproductions I actually mentioned.
>
> Royce
Ah Royceey baby, I thought we were talking about OPEN
players here? Not grade 1. As you well know (at least you
should) there's quite a difference between mere Grade 1 and
the Professional Open class piper. But since you offered I'd
love to see your LONG list of Grade 1 players using Glen
Repro's from the Sharpe Company.
Ball's in your court buddy boy,
Shawn
Don Robertson
damn pipes.
Cheers (sort of )
Don
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>Ah Royceey baby, I thought we were talking about OPEN
>players here? Not grade 1.
No. You specifically told the original poster that the Kron set would
not be good enough for grade 1 and he'd have to get himself a
"vintage" set for that.
Royce
Fernetta
conversation take note.
Fernetta
You know your a pipers wife when he sits in the car with his arm around his
pipes just like he used to do to you when you were dating.
Shawn Husk
> >>Can you say the same about me? Ever heard me play?
>
Then Royce claims:
> Everyone who knows you has given me a complete rundown.
>
> Royce
So who have you been talking to and what did they have to
say?
Shawn
Shawn Husk
> No. You specifically told the original poster that the Kron set would
> not be good enough for grade 1 and he'd have to get himself a
> "vintage" set for that.
>
> Royce
Then Shawn Husk patiently wrote:
Actually Royce that's not what I wrote, that was YOUR
INTERPRETATION of what I wrote you dweeb! :)
What I said was: "if you ever get to grade 1 or Open you'll
PROBABLY want a vintage set......"
Jeeze get it straight!
Shawn
Shawn Husk
> in grade 1 or open. Ever.
No body ever said 'NEED' dork. I said you would probably
PREFER a vintage set at that level. But that's okay. You
think your Sharp Co. Glen repros sound great so why am I
wasting my time talking to you?
Shawn
mike_...@my-dejanews.com
getting quite impatient waiting for this thread to die.
Royce has long been the "pit bull" of the the newsgroup, but you're starting
to make him look downright likeable.
You posted your opinion, and taken some flack for it. Are you going to plaster
us with Bill Clinton weasle words from now on?
Jeeze, get a life!
Mike
In article <36F7E960...@aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
mike_...@my-dejanews.com
the things that you post, or do the voices in your head tell you what to say?
Mike
In article <36F7EB50...@aol.com>,
TOADMAN5O6
>conversation take note.
>
well Gee Fern, we KNOW better than to expect Intelligent, reasoned comments
from Keifnut...oops i forgot to genuflect to him.
Cheers
Al Kuhn
(Remove nospam for e-mail)
"Slāinte agus buaidh gu brāth le gillean an airgeadach targaid"
Kearny Police Pipes and Drums
TOADMAN5O6
should take ot to the washroom and SHUT UPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!
OOps...sowwy......primal scream therapy...i feel MUCH better now.
Cheers (to everyone BUT the nitwits)
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>What I said was: "if you ever get to grade 1 or Open you'll
>PROBABLY want a vintage set......"
>
>Jeeze get it straight!
>
>Shawn
It amounts the the same thing. The implication is the Krons will
"probably" not be adequate for grade one, and again, you didn't
recommend the Gibsons, which you also sell.
Royce
(By the way, if everyone in grade 1 had to "probably" find a vintage
set, that would limit the grade one field worldwide to a few hundred
places.)
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>> In summary, you don't need to pick up a "vintage" set of pipes to play
I think you should take that up with Tad Myers. He's got enough medals
in grade 1 in your backyard and Canada to suggest they do OK in grade
1.
Royce