Jahreslauf
Joachim Pense
Stockhausen Verlag Worklist?
Joachim
bernardp
Best clarify that we are discussing "Der Jahreslauf" rather than
"Jahreslauf" which added new material years later.
As understand it the Japanese and Western versions of Der Jahreslauf
could share the same score, but with alternative instrumentation.
I wonder if the score of Der Jahreslauf mentions its original
instrumentation in a preface? I haven't seen it.
NB The original piece premiered under the Japanese title: Hikari / 光
which means "Light", not "The Course of The Years". The idea of seven
operas and the Licht superformula had not yet come about at the time
of its composition.
BP
Mark Stratford
bernardp <berna...@mac.com> wrote:
> I wonder if the score of Der Jahreslauf mentions its original
> instrumentation in a preface? I haven't seen it.
You West London boys really need to get up into town more ;-) The
British Library has a score of both.
But it's years since I looked at their Der J score so can't remember
really be any help here.
cheers, mark
Joachim Pense
>
> On Jan 5, 7:02 pm, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
>> Why does the Gagaku version of Stockhausen's "Jahreslauf" not appear in
>> the Stockhausen Verlag Worklist?
>>
>> Joachim
>
> Best clarify that we are discussing "Der Jahreslauf" rather than
> "Jahreslauf" which added new material years later.
Thanks, that's an interesting point.
> As understand it the Japanese and Western versions of Der Jahreslauf
> could share the same score, but with alternative instrumentation.
This is my understanding, too; therefore I'm a bit puzzled that the Japanese
instrumentation isn't mentioned at all in the Verlag's Worklist, which does
so for the other works. (Or does it? Maybe other alternative
instrumentations aren't mentioned either, and I just do not know.) I don't
think it was omitted because it seemed irrelevant to KHS, considering the
amount of respect and admiration for Japanese he shows in many of his
writings. I speculate that this version might be sort of reserved for the
Imperial Gagaku ensemble and therefore not available for the general public.
> I wonder if the score of Der Jahreslauf mentions its original
> instrumentation in a preface? I haven't seen it.
>
> NB The original piece premiered under the Japanese title: Hikari / 光
> which means "Light", not "The Course of The Years". The idea of seven
> operas and the Licht superformula had not yet come about at the time
> of its composition.
> BP
I think Stockhausen writes somewhere that he got the idea _while_ he was
working on the composition.
Joachim
bernardp
Tokyo on October 31st 1977
The Licht Formula is dated 24 III 78 - 4 IV 78
http://www.stockhausen.org/superformula.html
The changed instrumentation of this piece seems to have been an
example of Stockhausen at his most pragmatic. I think the harpsichord
is readily replaced by an electronic keyboard sample too in recent
performances.
Jerry Kohl
Yes, but this is the date of the fair copy. The rough sketches are
earlier, though how much earlier I am not sure. They are reproduced in
Texte V, where I can look them up, though I do not know whether they
are dated. I believe Stockhausen said they were made while he was
still in Japan for the premiere of Jahreslauf. Amongst other
differences from the final version, there were to have been *four*
protagonists: Adam was to have appeared, in addition to Michael, Eve,
and Lucifer.
--
Jerry Kohl
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
Daniel Wolf
principally because they found it difficult, and in some cases impossible,
to sing shoga, the traditional vocalise which carry the trunk melody of
traditional repertoire and are used to learn and transmit the instrumental
parts (see The role of listening in GAGAKU. Author: Susumu, Shōno.
Source: Contemporary Music Review, Volume 1, Number 2, 1984 , pp.
19-43(25)). I would be curious to know if the piece has ever been
revived by the original ensemble.
Daniel Wolf
Frankfurt
Cathy Black
This is very interesting, and it is so admirable when a leading
western composer works closely with musicians from a completely
different tradition (and vice versa!)
But in the case of Stockhausen I don't think the challenge he posed,
was at all out of character. It occurs to me a similar game-changing
puzzle must have been presented to The Collegium Vocale when they
began working on Stimmung, and indeed to Stockhausen's Ensemble when
the sequence of plus-minus scores that they had developed an expertise
for suddenly gave way to the Text compositions. It was Stockhausen's
nature to repeatedly reinvent Ensemble music, and his continuing
achievement was (through extensive rehearsal, inspiration and just a
little pragmatic compromise) to successfully preserve the integrity of
his highly original concepts, defying the previous training of the
musicians. At no time in Der Jahreslauf (Hikari) do I think
Stockhausen tried to write a piece in any Gagaku Tradition, but the
opportunity to work with musicians who display a remarkable ability to
work with a very unusual sense of time and scale must have seemed
highly appropriate! (Stockhausen wrote about a special sense of time
that he found unique to Japanese ritual arts didn't he?)
To me it seems unlikely that without Stockhausen's directorship the
Gagaku version of Der Jahreslauf (Hikari) has yet been revived, but I
don't know this for sure.
Contemporary repertoire shows that musicians from the many classical
japanese music traditions have constantly sought new music from
contemporary composers, both Non-Japanese and Japanese. It would be
wonderful to hear a revival of Gagaku playing Stockhausen! Having been
to the Noh theatre, the musicians reminded me of Der Jahreslauf as
soon as they began to play!
Joachim Pense
> Contemporary repertoire shows that musicians from the many classical
> japanese music traditions have constantly sought new music from
> contemporary composers, both Non-Japanese and Japanese. It would be
> wonderful to hear a revival of Gagaku playing Stockhausen! Having been
> to the Noh theatre, the musicians reminded me of Der Jahreslauf as
> soon as they began to play!
Of course, Noh music is _very_ different from Gagaku music. But then,
Stockhausen music is _very_ different from other Stockhausen music, too.
Joachim
ludo
from Ludo
Although I have not been able to trace a performance of Der
Jahreslauf, searching from mid 2003 onwards, I can throw extra light
on this question.
Stockhausen admitted to a music journalist on the flight back, that
Hikari was not far from Hari-kari in the spoken language of Japan.
Over the course of the years, he had often been unsuccessful in
fighting temptations and here in Japan the Geisha girls had been very
tempting indeed in their attempts to lead him from the straight and
narrow as he was still married to Mary. He misheard his adviser to the
strange rituals of the country and heard ‘Hikari’ as one way of
overcoming these temptations: his interpreter had in fact suggested
hari-kari. He would use this word – Light – over the course of the
years allotted to him when faced with any future temptations.
He was particularly upset when someone told him he had been advised to
read 25 pages in
the Contemporary Music Review, Volume 1, Number 2, 1984 , about how to
listen to Gagaku by Susumi Shono (or vice versa) a document which was
sold on e-bay for £780.15 to a misguided Jahreslauf enthusiast: all
other copies have apparently been lost . ‘Nothing to do with my
Jahreslauf’ thundered KS. It’s the Lords prayer’. ‘Lead us not into
temptation’ And I’ve incorporated four of ’em in Hari-kari – er –
Hikari which means ‘light’. As St Paul says ‘Walk in the light you
receive’ I can’t stand Gagaku really, but as I’m from Sirius I have
to put up with such things and I’ve never turned down the opportunity
of making a bob or two – there’s the children, Mary, the rates and the
bills…
So, if in the future, someone wants to know why I never issued a
record or specified weird instruments in J/lauf, it’s because they
would remind me of the Geisha’s – and the temptations as I have said
earlier.’ The chances of the work being performed in the future seem
remote, making centripetal questions rather irrelevant.
Here’s a slightly more interesting question. Why did Stockhausen
always revert to speaking in German when he was stuck for an English
word?
Ludovicus
ludo
Ludo
Of course he wasn't still married to Mary (although I don't know how
soon after '68 that the divorce was made final - the children were
still very young). But there were other reasons why in the course of
future years....
Ludo
bernardp
Hilarious post, but which bits if any are true? I can't tell!
bernardp
Hilarious post, biut which bits if any are true Ludo? I can't tell!
ludo
Ludo,
With Stockhausen, you n e v e r can tell....
Ludovicus
Jerry Kohl
Perhaps a little light can be thrown on Bernard's question by adopting
the risky strategy of actually looking at the documents mentioned:
> > > He was particularly upset when someone told him he had been advised to
> > > read 25 pages in
> > > the Contemporary Music Review, Volume 1, Number 2, 1984 , about how to
> > > listen to Gagaku by Susumi Shono (or vice versa) a document which was
> > > sold on e-bay for £780.15 to a misguided Jahreslauf enthusiast: all
> > > other copies have apparently been lost .
I had no trouble at all locating a copy through my library, and I sure
as heck didn't pay anything for it, let alone go to eBay. However, it
turns out to have been published in 1987, not 1984. It is an interview
conducted by Shono with master gagaku performer (on the flute called
ryuteki) Sukeyasu Siba.
> > > ‘Nothing to do with my Jahreslauf’ thundered KS.
Here is what is said about Jahreslauf in the article:
: Shiba: I myself am certain of the importance of shōga.
: It's not simply enough to be able to play the instrument
: well. It's also important to continue singing shōga
: throughout one's performing career. It is extremely
: difficult to play a piece that cannot be sung in shōga.
: We face this problem when given the score of a new
: piece in Western staff notation; it is usually necessary
: to translate into shōga . . . Phrases can be played easily
: when they can be likened to melodic movements in
: the traditional repertory, although some new pieces
: have sections that cannot be translated in this way.
:
: Shōno: New pieces for gagaku ensemble have been
: written not only by Japanese composers, but also
: by composers like Eloy and Stockhausen. They are
: hard to play, then, because they cannot be easily
: sung in shōga.
:
: Shiba: In any event, it's mainly because we try to
: understand them in terms of the categories of
: traditional gagaku. . . . . Of course some parts of
: Eloy's piece can also be sung, and in the case of
: the Stockhausen's, although some problems may
: have arisen because of his lack of knowledge of
: the instruments, I still found it to be energetic and
: quite remarkable in its own way.
Yes, I can certainly see why Stockhausen would take exception to his
piece being regarded as energetic and remarkable. . . . ???
Then, a few paragraphs later:
: Shōno: The learning process involves, then, the
: combination of aural perception and physical
: movement. In that sense, things are different when
: you are faced with pieces like those of Eloy and
: Stockhausen in which notation comes first.
:
: Shiba: Yes, since we try to learn it as it stands.
That is the sum total of what is said about either Jahreslauf (never
mentioned by title) or Stockhausen.
--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
ludo
> "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
Ludo,
Well, perhaps what I referred to was in the 25 pages of the
1984 article which as I said, all other copies than the one sold on
ebay have been lost. It was obviously reprinted by the purchaser to be
found in an expurgated 1987 issue of the mag, which Jerry was sent for
free. I am sure that the quote must be relevant to J/lauf in some way
which at the moment I can't quite see it of..
But I have to believe what Stockhausen told the journalist and the
purchaser of the 1984 mag. This question had been of minor interest to
a couple of society members and was asked when Bob and I visited
Kurten. Kathinka and Suzanne where making the evening meal when he
told us the stories about J/lauf that I passed on. I do not believe
that the huge smile and wink impinged on the veracity of the story.
One clue to us was that the archivist was not able to find any
Japanese instruments in the archive, for example. But she did show us
the motorbike which was for hire in any future performances. Have to
admit it was a bit rusty....
I have many more secrets to pass on when more questions appear in rec
mus etc. Did you know, for example, that the series of 'runs' in the
middle of Piano Piece 6, follow the direction that little Julika was
running around in, in the garden - up towards the hedge she went, then
back again while all the time her dad was frantically transcribing her
movements into notes? If this has stopped another question say from
the hitherto silent Francois de Paris, then I'm happy.
Another question of far more interest is why, in the DVD of the
Helicopter String Quartet, we see Stockhausen's adjustment on his
braces (called suspenders in the US) to be higher on the right than on
the left.
Ludovicus
bernardp
> Another question of far more interest is why, in the DVD of the
> Helicopter String Quartet, we see Stockhausen's adjustment on his
> braces (called suspenders in the US) to be higher on the right than on
> the left.
>
I am increasingly unable to distinguish all
the satire from the information given.
Better avoid being a wikipedia editor or a
generation could be similarly confused! ;-)
Jerry Kohl
Surely you mean *yet another* generation? Thousands of Wikipedia
editors have been busy confusing everybody for years now, while
thousands (or at least hundreds) of others have been frantically
flagging nonsensical claims with "citation needed" tags.
Surely these latest relevations [not a typo] demonstrate that
Stockhausen was even more amazingly talented that hitherto has been
believed. Add time travel to his many accomplishments! He managed
somehow to go back in time to publish the score of Klavierstück VI in
1965, after having transcribed Julika's garden travels in—what year
was that exactly, Ludo? Julika was born on 22 January 1966.
--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
ludo
> "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
From Ludo
Surely these latest relevations [not a typo] demonstrate that
> Stockhausen was even more amazingly talented that hitherto has been
> believed. Add time travel to his ....
The correct response should have been 'Julika wasn't born then. It
must have been one of the other kids ... there were enough of them' A
much simpler and shorter comment.
Another question of great import to understanding the music.
'Was Stockhausen the first member of the family to be christened
Karlheinz?'
I cannot stress just how important such questions are. When they are
answered scholastically, then maybe,with this new understanding, there
will be a 'performance' of Fresco.
Mark Stratford
I always liked Ingvar Loco Nordin's comment in his Der J/L review re:
the 2nd Incitement
"Don’t misinterpret me; the trio of a lion, a harpsichord and a guitar
really works "
Incidentally, any sightings of ILN ? He wrote a Cosmic Pulses review a
couple of months before KhS died, but seems not to have continued his
prolific writings.
Mark