Eleanor Rigby Sync on YS Songtrack
DirWuf
"Eleanor Rigby" for a while now and wanted to hear it for myself. First of all,
I assume by "out-of-sync", everyone is referring to the placement of the vocals
against the music track as opposed to the multiple vocal tracks against each
other.
I was able to sync up both the original and remix versions on a non-linear
editing system for comparison. The vocals were exactly where they should
be...nothing out-of-sync, and it sounded like a single recording.
Could I have started from the wrong premise, or does the music remix distort
everyone's perceptions?
BG
"Ever since I was born--or maybe, when I was two years old, somebody punched me
in the ear" -- Brian Wilson
Scott
DirWuf wrote in message <19991008111423...@ng-ca1.aol.com>...
Luke Pacholski
(DirWuf) wrote:
>Let me repeat...I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
>NOTHING OUT OF SYNC...It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang the
>verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag echo, etc...
>
>So why am I wrong? I work as a video and sound editor...I make my living
>looking for such things.
Danny's a recording engineer - he lined them up and determined the vocals
are 30ms behind the originals. I suggest you take the issue up with him...
Luke
R4949
Scott <sgoo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> Frankly, if you're right, this would be hilarious.
Frankly, me dear, I posted a similar opinion weeks ago....
Sync them up - and listen...
R4949
chocolate jesus......
Scott <sgoo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7tlua5$752$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> Frankly, if you're right, this would be hilarious.
unfortunately, s/he aint...:)
DirWuf
Let me repeat...I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
NOTHING OUT OF SYNC...It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang the
verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag echo, etc...
So why am I wrong? I work as a video and sound editor...I make my living
looking for such things.
DirWuf
Let me repeat...I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
NOTHING OUT OF SYNC...It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang the
verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag, echo, etc...
I work as a video and sound editor...I make my living looking for such things.
BG
chocolate jesus......
DirWuf <dir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991008235959...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> >unfortunately,he aint..
>
> Let me repeat..
i heard you the first time.
>.I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
> NOTHING OUT OF SYNC..
and there's no need to shout.
>.It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang the
> verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag echo, etc...
>
> So why am I wrong? I work as a video and sound editor...I make my living
> looking for such things.
mate i dont care what you do.
i just disagree.
is that still allright around here?
ac3
-ca1.aol.com>:
>Okay, I've been hearing about this sync problem on the Songtrack version
>of "Eleanor Rigby" for a while now and wanted to hear it for myself.
>First of all, I assume by "out-of-sync", everyone is referring to the
>placement of the vocals against the music track as opposed to the
>multiple vocal tracks against each other.
>
>I was able to sync up both the original and remix versions on a non
>-linear editing system for comparison. The vocals were exactly where
>they should be...nothing out-of-sync, and it sounded like a single
>recording.
>
>Could I have started from the wrong premise, or does the music remix
>distort everyone's perceptions?
In a way you have started from the wrong premise. If you line up the new
and old versions you can get an almost perfect sync on the lead vocals.
The new and old vocals have only amplitude variations on them, eg, in
'that no one will hear'
you will notice that the new mix fades off the 'hear' very different to
the old mix.
You made the same mistake I first made, which was focus on the vocals
and ignore the orchestra.
The sync problem is between the NEW Vocals and the NEW Orchestra.
The new vocals LAG the new orchestra.
There is a difference between where the orchestra should be and where the
vocals should be.
I've been playing around with the 5.1 mixes, and given the sparse
orchestration on the centre channel had a go at correcting the lag.
Taking the Red album as the reference stereo mix I cut up the centre
channel into the three main vocal sections and the other double tracked
vocal sections. (This is because the double tracked vocals have to be in
sync with each other, there is not enough seperation on the left channel,
but thats not important...)
After loads of tweaking in Cool Edit Pro I came up with a difference
of 33ms on the first vocal section, 36ms on the second vocal section, and
38ms on the final vocal section.
There may be a slight variation in speed between the Red mix and the
new mix, which is why the above figures move apart, but these figures
are enough to keep my brain happy, and I've now got a very nice stereo
mix of ER with all the clarity of the new mix but without the lag.
As an aside, another posted mentioned how on the original mix the not
quite perfect Paul / Orchestra sync gave a very distinct mood to the
song. I had to resist the temptation several times to correct what was a
genuine Paul / Orchestra sync problem and not a new remix problem.
ac3.
chocolate jesus......
as for the guy who "makes his living doing this stuff", watch yer back @
work mate....:)
(ok sorry, i couldn't resist that bit of a dig.......:)
ac3 <ac3re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36442.75879884965Fa...@137.111.222.196...
Mick
ac3 wrote in message
<36442.75879884965Fa...@137.111.222.196>...
Someone with wwaay too much time on their hands...
sounds like something I would do.
Danny Caccavo
(DirWuf) wrote:
> Okay, I've been hearing about this sync problem on the Songtrack version of
> "Eleanor Rigby" for a while now and wanted to hear it for myself. First
of all,
> I assume by "out-of-sync", everyone is referring to the placement of the
vocals
> against the music track as opposed to the multiple vocal tracks against each
> other.
>
> I was able to sync up both the original and remix versions on a non-linear
> editing system for comparison. The vocals were exactly where they should
> be...nothing out-of-sync, and it sounded like a single recording.
>
> Could I have started from the wrong premise, or does the music remix distort
> everyone's perceptions?
>
> BG
> "Ever since I was born--or maybe, when I was two years old, somebody
punched me
> in the ear" -- Brian Wilson
No, it's out of sync. I did it on a workstation, and the vocals are
almost consistently 30ms behind, as compared to the original stereo mix.
DC
--
Danny Caccavo
"Where's Elvis?"
Danny Caccavo
(DirWuf) wrote:
> >unfortunately,he aint..<
>
> Let me repeat...I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
> NOTHING OUT OF SYNC...It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang the
> verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag, echo, etc...
>
> I work as a video and sound editor...I make my living looking for such things.
>
> BG
And you didn't listen carefully enough. Line up the two - get the strings
to phase, and the vocals are clearly out of sync by about 1 NTSC video
frame (something you'll appreciate <g>). The thing that's interesting is
that the recordings on the Revolver CD and the YS cd are *exactly* the
same speed - they do not drift at all. But you can hear the vocal drifting
through the "phase" boundaries and then being corrected. So they did not
use the correct method of speed correcting the vocal in the analog domain
(the old method of varispeed and wearing headphones), but attempted to fix
it in the Sonic workstation instead.
Line up the two so the vocals are phasing and the strings are out.
Absolutely.
Danny Caccavo
(DirWuf) wrote:
> >unfortunately,he aint..
>
> Let me repeat...I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
> NOTHING OUT OF SYNC...It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang the
> verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag echo, etc...
>
> So why am I wrong? I work as a video and sound editor...I make my living
> looking for such things.
>
>
Because you weren't careful enough.
R4949
ac3 <ac3re...@hotmail.com> wrote
> I've now got a very nice stereo mix of ER with all the clarity of the new
mix but without the lag.
Gonna share it? mp3s all round, please - then we can hear for ourselves...
R4949
ca...@tiac.net
DirWuf wrote in message <19991008235959...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>>unfortunately,he aint..
>
>Let me repeat...I lined up both tracks and mixed them together...there was
>NOTHING OUT OF SYNC...It sounded like a single recording...when Paul sang
the
>verses, it was a single voice with no phase, reverb, lag echo, etc...
>
It may be a single voice with no phase, lag echo, etc. But it is still out
of sync.
You can line up the voices of the two versions, but it's the placement of
the vocals against the strings that is off.
It is a pretty drastic feel change in my opinion, and pretty clear even
without lining up the tracks in a computer.
Danny Caccavo
Yes, but I decided to line up the tracks in the computer to offer
incontrovertable proof of the slip up (which it provided me with).