BMW Shaft drive vs. Japanese Shaft drive
hen...@my-deja.com
front and rear spline lubrication design versus all the Japanese bikes with
shaft drive seem to be maintenance free shaft drive designs.
What are the Japanese doing so much better in maintenance free Shaft drive
designs? Why does BMW keep doing it this way?
Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
makes chain drive look attractive.
Regards,
Henri
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
hen...@my-deja.com
Guy Smith
<hen...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92o1rb$j83$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Could someone explain why BMW's bikes still use the maintenance intensive
> front and rear spline lubrication design versus all the Japanese bikes
with
> shaft drive seem to be maintenance free shaft drive designs.
>
> What are the Japanese doing so much better in maintenance free Shaft drive
> designs? Why does BMW keep doing it this way?
>
What maintenece??? my '77 has over 200k on it and all I do is replace the
gear lube every spring oil change. Very easy, very quick. Never had a
problem.
> Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
> makes chain drive look attractive.
Until you wear white and get chain grease all up one leg.
Timberwoof
> Could someone explain why BMW's bikes still use the maintenance intensive
> front and rear spline lubrication design versus all the Japanese bikes
> with
> shaft drive seem to be maintenance free shaft drive designs.
>
> What are the Japanese doing so much better in maintenance free Shaft
> drive
> designs? Why does BMW keep doing it this way?
>
> Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
> makes chain drive look attractive.
Unless you can guarantee that the bend axis of the shaft's u-joints
perfectly matches up with the suspension pivot axis, you need a pair of
splined couplings. These enable the shaft to move to that position
naturally.
Yes, spline lubes and clutch replacements are a serious pain in the ass
on BMW motorcycles ... and there are designs that can overcome the
problem. I wish I was a QA engineer for those guys; I'd kick some ass
over there. (Only problem is, I know software QA, not mechanical
engineering QA.)
--
Timberwoof <timberwoof at infernosoft dot com>
a motorcycle faq: http://www.infernosoft.com/timberwoof/motorcycle/faq.shtml
Jon
> on BMW motorcycles ...
Ugly on the inside as well as the outside.
Grey Wolf
>front and rear spline lubrication design versus all the Japanese bikes with
>shaft drive seem to be maintenance free shaft drive designs.
Your question is based on a misconception. The Clymer maintance manual for
the Honda recommends lubricating the final drive splines every 8000 miles.
The Clymer manual for the BMW recommends every 12 months. Not dissimilar
if you ride 8000 miles a year :)
The BMW design allows you to do this while on the centerstand after
removing 12 bolts (4 for the wheel, 2 for the brake caliper, 2 for the
shock & 4 for the final drive) without the worry of replacement seals and
gaskets.
Perhaps you are confusing the final drive spline maintenance with BMWs
infamous clutch spline lube which, of neccessity, requires the removal (or
for those who use the shortcut, near removal) of the transmission. While
this is a tedious procedure the benefit of no engine-life-reducing clutch
friction material being suspended in the engine oil somewhat makes up for
it.
>Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
>makes chain drive look attractive.
Now you're being simple - or perhaps have a latent spooge fetish.
Ralph
-------------------------------------------------------
93 BMW K75RT-P - Main ride
92 BMW K75RT-P - Spare (Went a little nuts at the auction :)
85 CB650 Night Hawk - Selling after rebuild
-------------------------------------------------------
Timberwoof
wrote:
> > Yes, spline lubes and clutch replacements are a serious pain in the ass
> > on BMW motorcycles ...
>
> Ugly on the inside as well as the outside
I think you mean "Just as ugly on the inside as on the outside." I can't
tell you how ugly I htink BMW motorcycles are.
Jon
>
> I think you mean "Just as ugly on the inside as on the outside." I can't
> tell you how ugly I htink BMW motorcycles are.
Like a bad acid trip.
Dan Nitschke
>
> hen...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
> > makes chain drive look attractive.
>
> Until you wear white and get chain grease all up one leg.
Well, some people think constantly oiling a
chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
times is easier than occasional lube.
Let them.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, DIAABTCOD #12, UKRMHRC #5, GHPOTHUF (tm) #B */
Dan Nitschke peDA...@idiom.com (.)@(.....).net
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Once you start watchin' there's just no stoppin';
your brain shuts down, then your IQ's droppin'...
- 'Weird Al' Yankovic, "Jerry Springer"
Dan Nitschke
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Evidently, your acid trips leave you with blind
beholders. Your loss.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke |=| peDA...@idiom.com |=| (.....)@(.......).net
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another
man without that other's consent. - Abraham Lincoln
Rick Damiani
>Guy Smith wrote:
>>
>> hen...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> > Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
>> > makes chain drive look attractive.
>>
>> Until you wear white and get chain grease all up one leg.
>
>Well, some people think constantly oiling a
>chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
>times is easier than occasional lube.
>
>Let them.
My Scottoiler oils the chain, and replacing chain and sprockets is a
30 minute job. doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
than that.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast ..................... Rick Damiani
and no one will talk to a host that's close .... ri...@nospam.paton.com
Unless the host (that isn't close) ......... ri...@nospam.earthlink.net
is busy, hung or dead ..............................NGI# T695 DoD #2659
'99 Triumph Sprint ST (Guppy) ....... '86 Yamaha Radian (Fire Breather)
Timberwoof
> Jon wrote:
> >
> > > > Ugly on the inside as well as the outside
> > >
> > > I think you mean "Just as ugly on the inside as on the outside." I
> > > can't
> > > tell you how ugly I htink BMW motorcycles are.
> >
> > Like a bad acid trip.
>
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
>
> Evidently, your acid trips leave you with blind
> beholders. Your loss.
If you want ugly, check out
http://www.spagthorpe.com/production/basenji.html
Dan Nitschke
>
> Dan Nitschke wrote:
>
> >Well, some people think constantly oiling a
> >chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
> >times is easier than occasional lube.
> >
> >Let them.
>
> My Scottoiler oils the chain,
So you only have to install and maintain that.
> and replacing chain and sprockets is a
> 30 minute job.
How often?
> doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
> than that.
Not really. When the bike's in for some other
scheduled service, I say, "Oh, while you're at it,
please lube the splines, OK? Thanks."
3 seconds, max.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, DIAABTCOD #12, UKRMHRC #5, GHPOTHUF (tm) #B */
Dan Nitschke :: peDA...@idiom.com :: (.....)@(......).net
==========================================================
Mephistopheles is not your name; but I know what you're up
to, just the same. -- Sting
Blue Steel
Rick Damiani <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:g1r15ts0l2akcj7j0...@4ax.com...
> Dan Nitschke <peDA...@idiom.com> wrote:
>
> >Guy Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> hen...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
> >> > makes chain drive look attractive.
> >>
> >> Until you wear white and get chain grease all up one leg.
> >
> >Well, some people think constantly oiling a
> >chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
> >times is easier than occasional lube.
> >
> >Let them.
>
> My Scottoiler oils the chain, and replacing chain and sprockets is a
> 30 minute job. doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
> than that.
How often do you fuck with your chain???
Have yet to need any repair or replacement work on my 77 BMW.
Some Guy on a Bike
<gsm...@spamgohome.netwalk.com> babbled forth:
> Have yet to need any repair or replacement work on my 77 BMW.
You're on your original tires, oil, brake fluid and fork oil?
Stay off any road I'm on, please!
--
=====================================================================
Adam Wade "The only way I'll stop riding
CWRA #4 SDWL #2 is if I stop breathing."
CIMC #1 DoD #2009 LOMP #2 1990 Zephyr 550 (Daphne)
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent
those of my employer in any form.
=====================================================================
Blue Steel
Some Guy on a Bike pulled this out of his ass:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 08:18:33 -0500, "Blue Steel"
> <gsm...@spamgohome.netwalk.com> babbled forth:
>
> > Have yet to need any repair or replacement work on my 77 BMW.
>
> You're on your original tires, oil, brake fluid and fork oil?
We're talking shafts and chains not rubber and oil.
Please try not to be so blatently obtuse in the future
> Stay off any road I'm on, please!
How can one so mentally defective as you appear to be keep a motorcycle
balanced upright on the road???
Some Guy on a Bike
<gsm...@spamgohome.netwalk.com> babbled forth:
>>> Have yet to need any repair or replacement work on my 77 BMW.
>> You're on your original tires, oil, brake fluid and fork oil?
> We're talking shafts and chains not rubber and oil.
> Please try not to be so blatently obtuse in the future
You claimed you had done no replacement or repair work since 1977 on
that bike. I'm not being obtuse.
If you were meaning WRT the shaft, are you telling me you've never
had the splines serviced? How many miles on the bike?
>> Stay off any road I'm on, please!
> How can one so mentally defective as you appear to be
I wouldn't have the faintest idea. You'd have to ask someone who
was mentally defective.
r_klein...@my-deja.com
I think it'd be in the gearbox oil, and I'd hapilly change this
more regularly. Then you've got the infamous GS paralever U joints,
which can be partially remedied by an aftermarket driveshaft
with zirc fittings. (These probably should have been original
equipment).
> >Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
> >makes chain drive look attractive.
>
> Now you're being simple - or perhaps have a latent spooge fetish.
Why would someone not suffering from a latent spooge fetish
buy a motorcycle ?
Dan Nitschke
>
> Grey Wolf wrote:
>
> > Now you're being simple - or perhaps have a latent spooge fetish.
>
> Why would someone not suffering from a latent spooge fetish
> buy a motorcycle ?
Posing.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- IY (tm) #1, TSFL #C, PFFB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke ^ peDA...@idiom.com ^ (.....)@(......).net
********************************************************
And this is what he said on his way to Armageddon!
-- Tom Lehrer, "So Long, Mom (I'm Off to Drop the Bomb)"
Grey Wolf
>>infamous clutch spline lube which, of neccessity, requires the removal
>>(or for those who use the shortcut, near removal) of the transmission.
>>While this is a tedious procedure the benefit of no engine-life-reducing
>>clutch friction material being suspended in the engine oil somewhat makes
>>up for it.
>I think it'd be in the gearbox oil, and I'd hapilly change this
>more regularly.
Umm... being a dry clutch it's not in the transmission either. Not
unlike a car it's between the engine and the transmission in its own
'bell housing'.
>Then you've got the infamous GS paralever U joints,
>which can be partially remedied by an aftermarket driveshaft
>with zirc fittings. (These probably should have been original
>equipment).
It can't be all that infamous as it only appears in the R-bike section
at IBMWR. Perhaps a redesign or new manufacturer was found for the
u-joint bearings before the paralever was introduce to the K1 and
newer bikes?
>> >Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
>> >makes chain drive look attractive.
>> Now you're being simple - or perhaps have a latent spooge fetish.
>Why would someone not suffering from a latent spooge fetish
>buy a motorcycle ?
To assuage their latent 'can't do wheelies on a shaft-drive' fetish,
of course.
r_klein...@my-deja.com
Grey Wolf <agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> the benefit of no engine-life-reducing
> >>clutch friction material being suspended in the engine oil somewhat
makes
> >>up for it.
>
> >I think it'd be in the gearbox oil, and I'd hapilly change this
> >more regularly.
>
> Umm... being a dry clutch it's not in the transmission either. Not
> unlike a car it's between the engine and the transmission in its own
> 'bell housing'.
This was a hypothetical wet plate clutch, as opposed to the
dry clutch found on the bike. You bring up a more interesting
question though about why a BMW dry clutch needs transmission
removal for spline lubes when an automotive clutch doesn't.
Grey Wolf
>dry clutch found on the bike. You bring up a more interesting
>question though about why a BMW dry clutch needs transmission
>removal for spline lubes when an automotive clutch doesn't.
I would think that should you need to grease the clutch splines on a car
transmission removal would be required, however the design precludes the
requirement.
I refer you to Philips message (12/31/00 9:56PM) in rec.motorcycle.tech
where he asserts "in 1981 with the complete redesign of the Boxer clutch,
BMW in their questionable wisdom went to 22 very fine splines on the
transmission input shaft to spread surface loading over a larger area."
though I doubt their intentions were as he concluded "Hence, they created a
way to get customers back in for shop work or ... they would face eventual
failure of the input shaft splines."
In fact the only bike introduced in 1981 was the R65LS which was simply a
R65 (1978) with a small handlebar fairing attached. Hardly something
necessitating a clutch redesign. Mind you in 1978 the R100T introduced
"single discs, with lever-action diaphragm spring" which is still in use on
R-bikes today. Perhaps this is what Philip meant to refer to.
I think James message (01/03/01 12:30AM) is the more accurate, "BMWs built
before 1969 didn't require clutch spline lubrication as routine
maintenance", given the introduction of their first bike over 600cc/42PS
(ie. HP), the R75/5. This ties in nicely with the need to distribute more
load, hence more splines. The date also coincides to the introduction of
the "dry single plate, with diaphragm spring" vice "single disc saucer
spring, dry" previously used.
Enough history. While it would have been nicer for BMW to increase the
shaft diameter for load distribution rather than the number of splines,
I'll accept it as is. Spending one day a year greasing splines and changing
fluids is not so high a price to pay to save me from the spooge.
Timberwoof
wrote:
There are three sets of splines in a BMW:
1) engine crank shaft into the transmission input shaf (there's a
clutch in there somwehere)
2) transmission output shaft into the driveshaft
3) (only on Paralever) driveshaft into the final drive.
Numbers 2 and 3 need to be lubricated. (Does #1 after assembly?)
To get at an automotive clucth to lube its splines, you usually have to
renove the tranny.
James Clark
Grey Wolf wrote:
> In fact the only bike introduced in 1981 was the R65LS which was simply a
> R65 (1978) with a small handlebar fairing attached. Hardly something
> necessitating a clutch redesign. Mind you in 1978 the R100T introduced
> "single discs, with lever-action diaphragm spring" which is still in use on
> R-bikes today. Perhaps this is what Philip meant to refer to.
The only major change that might have taken place for 1981 would be
the addition of a damper to the drive shaft. The right side of the swing arm
lost its "coke bottle" shape at that time to accommodate the larger drive
shaft.
James Clark
Timberwoof wrote:
>
> To get at an automotive clucth to lube its splines, you usually have to
> renove the tranny.
>
I can't even get the clutch in my truck to take out the garbage.
If the hub of the friction disk had a grease fitting, you could snake a gun
inside the clutch to grease the splines. But I can't recall seen one so
equipped.
Flash - DoD #412
> There are three sets of splines in a BMW:
>
> 1) engine crank shaft into the transmission input shaf (there's a
> clutch in there somwehere)
True.
> 2) transmission output shaft into the driveshaft
Utter CRAP. There is a taper on the output shaft onto which the u-joint end of
the driveshaft is bolted. This is true for all single-u-joint BMWs from the /2
series through the beginning of the paralever. (My area of expertise runs out
at Paralever. I'm good for BMW details for about 1960 to about 1983, plus the
F650.)
> 3) (only on Paralever) driveshaft into the final drive.
Utter CRAP. Even the monolever and standard bikes have splines on the pinion
gear. This interface is outside of the final drive seals, lubed by the oil in
the driveshaft.
> Numbers 2 and 3 need to be lubricated. (Does #1 after assembly?)
#2 & #3 run in gear oil. So, yes, they "need to be lubricated." But changing
150cc of driveshaft oil every 6,000 miles isn't all that labor intensive. You
lube the input shaft spines whenever you have the trans out. I never had
problems with any of my input splines. Put well over 70k miles (each) on three
different bikes.
> To get at an automotive clucth to lube its splines, you usually have to
> renove the tranny.
Yup... sorta. You can slip the trans back slightly or slip the engine forward
in a BMW to lube the splines, if that is all you are wanting to do.
- Flash - DoD #412
- http://www.deathstar.org/~flash for Tales of Adventure, and photos, too.
James Clark
Flash - DoD #412 wrote:
> Timberwoof wrote:
>
> > There are three sets of splines in a BMW:
> >
> > 1) engine crank shaft into the transmission input shaf (there's a
> > clutch in there somwehere)
>
> True.
>
> > 2) transmission output shaft into the driveshaft
>
> Utter CRAP. There is a taper on the output shaft onto which the u-joint end of
> the driveshaft is bolted. This is true for all single-u-joint BMWs from the /2
> series through the beginning of the paralever. (My area of expertise runs out
> at Paralever. I'm good for BMW details for about 1960 to about 1983, plus the
> F650.)
My turn!
BULLSHIT!!!
Monolever Ks are splined at the tranny output shaft.
>
>
> > 3) (only on Paralever) driveshaft into the final drive.
>
> Utter CRAP. Even the monolever and standard bikes have splines on the pinion
> gear. This interface is outside of the final drive seals, lubed by the oil in
> the driveshaft.
Airheads had barrel shaped splines on the pinion shaft running
inside straight splines in a cup bolted (nutted, actually) to the end
of the drive shaft. The barrel splines were necessary due to the
variation of the driveshaft angle relative to the pinion during
suspension movement. (The universal joint was displaced from
the swingarm pivot.) The entire right side of the swingarm was
filled with gear oil in this setup.
The monolever K driveshaft is slipped into the swingarm after
the arm is secured to the tranny. When in position, the joint
pivots in line with the swingarm bearings. When suspension
movement occurs, the driveshaft remains parallel to the swingarm
so straight splines can be used at the pinion shaft. One in position,
there is little to no slippage between mating splines and no oil
bath is required. (And no oil leaks out from the boot between
the swingarm and gearbox.)
>
>
> > Numbers 2 and 3 need to be lubricated. (Does #1 after assembly?)
>
> #2 & #3 run in gear oil. So, yes, they "need to be lubricated." But changing
> 150cc of driveshaft oil every 6,000 miles isn't all that labor intensive. You
> lube the input shaft spines whenever you have the trans out. I never had
> problems with any of my input splines. Put well over 70k miles (each) on three
> different bikes.
>
> > To get at an automotive clucth to lube its splines, you usually have to
> > renove the tranny.
>
> Yup... sorta. You can slip the trans back slightly or slip the engine forward
> in a BMW to lube the splines, if that is all you are wanting to do.
>
After removing the swingarm pivots?
Rick Damiani
>Rick Damiani wrote:
>>
>> Dan Nitschke wrote:
>>
>> >Well, some people think constantly oiling a
>> >chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
>> >times is easier than occasional lube.
>> >
>> >Let them.
>>
>> My Scottoiler oils the chain,
>
>So you only have to install and maintain that.
Installation was not too bad, and maintenance amounts to filling it
with oil once in a while. Not too tough.
>> and replacing chain and sprockets is a
>> 30 minute job.
>
>How often?
Once or twice a year, depending on miles.
>> doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
>> than that.
>
>Not really. When the bike's in for some other
>scheduled service, I say, "Oh, while you're at it,
>please lube the splines, OK? Thanks."
>
>3 seconds, max.
Ah. See, I do all that stuff myself 'cause it's my neck that is riding
on it being done right, and I trust myself to do a good job. I don't
trust too many other people that much, and none of them that I haven't
seen work.
Rick Damiani
>Rick Damiani <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> My Scottoiler oils the chain, and replacing chain and sprockets is a
>> 30 minute job. doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
>> than that.
>>
>How often do you fuck with your chain???
Well, I look at it and give it a wiggle every couple of days or so. I
do that to most of the bike as well, so I don't really notice the
extra second or five.
>Have yet to need any repair or replacement work on my 77 BMW.
Might want to give it a look and a wiggle every couple of days just to
be sure though.
Old Biker
>
> Timberwoof wrote:
--big snip--
IMHO much of the diff is the amount of spline movement. Pre -
paralever BM shafts hinged at the swing arm pivot so the shaft
splines moved little, if at all, while riding and thus lasted
forever.
Flash - DoD #412
> > > To get at an automotive clucth to lube its splines, you usually have to
> > > renove the tranny.
> >
> > Yup... sorta. You can slip the trans back slightly or slip the engine forward
> > in a BMW to lube the splines, if that is all you are wanting to do.
> >
>
> After removing the swingarm pivots?
You can slip the motor forward without doing that.
You MUST do that to slip the trans backwards enough to do the splines.
- Flash - Who freely admits he doesn't know jackshit about k-bikes (or k-cars
either).
Dan Nitschke
>
> Dan Nitschke <peDA...@idiom.com> wrote:
>
> >Rick Damiani wrote:
> >>
> >> Dan Nitschke wrote:
> >>
> >> >Well, some people think constantly oiling a
> >> >chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
> >> >times is easier than occasional lube.
> >> >
> >> >Let them.
> >>
> >> My Scottoiler oils the chain,
> >
> >So you only have to install and maintain that.
>
> Installation was not too bad, and maintenance amounts to filling it
> with oil once in a while. Not too tough.
That's a lot more than I do.
> >> and replacing chain and sprockets is a
> >> 30 minute job.
> >
> >How often?
>
> Once or twice a year, depending on miles.
Eek! Way too much spooge-intensive work.
> >> doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
> >> than that.
> >
> >Not really. When the bike's in for some other
> >scheduled service, I say, "Oh, while you're at it,
> >please lube the splines, OK? Thanks."
> >
> >3 seconds, max.
>
> Ah. See, I do all that stuff myself 'cause it's my neck that is riding
> on it being done right,
My neck (and the rest of my anatomy) is riding on it,
too, y'know.
> and I trust myself to do a good job.
But you have mechanical skill. I *don't* trust myself
with that kind of work being done to the correct level
of goodity.
> I don't
> trust too many other people that much, and none of them that I haven't
> seen work.
I trust the folks at SJ BMW, and much more that I
trust me with something like that.
YMMV.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, DIAABTCOD #12, UKRMHRC #5, GHPOTHUF (tm) #B */
Dan Nitschke )) peDA...@idiom.com (( (.....)@(......).net
*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!
Don't annoy us further; we have our work to do. Just think
about the average: what use have they for you? -- Rush
Grey Wolf
Apparently not. Timberwoof's original assertion is fundamentally correct:
------------------------------------------------------------------
1) engine crank shaft into the transmission input shaf (there's a
clutch in there somwehere)
2) transmission output shaft into the driveshaft
3) (only on Paralever) driveshaft into the final drive.
Numbers 2 and 3 need to be lubricated. (Does #1 after assembly?)
------------------------------------------------------------------
The only inaccuracy is the Paralever qualifier. I don't know if the
Paralevel is splined or not but do know the Monolever is. Since you profess
"I'm good for BMW details for about 1960 to about 1983, plus the F650" you
should know this. The Monolever was introduced in 1980 and any "driveshaft
oil" was eliminated at that time, unless you consider grease 'thickened
oil' as does BMW in various references.
Second, I don't know about the R-bikes but you can't "slip the motor
forward" on a K-bike at all. Consider this paragraph from Clymer's K-Series
1985-1995. "The clutch and transmission housing can be removed from the
frame as an assembly leaving the engine in the frame. The engine cannot
[cannot is italicized] be removed leaving the clutch and transmission
housing in the frame. This is due to the various frame mounting points and
where they attach to these components." Even if you were to remove all the
wiring, cooling, fuel, exhaust and air systems you'd still need to drop the
engine to clear the frame mounting points and that would bend the
transmission input shaft not to mention the clutch release pushrod.
Third, you need not remove the swingarm or final drive to remove the
transmission, though why one would leave them on is a mystery. Most people
remove the final drive to lube the drive shaft splines and at that point
swingarm removal/reinstallation takes a total of five minutes & no special
tools.
All-in-all Timberwoof's simpler explanation appears to have more
generalized 'BMW bike savvy' and the less "CRAP".
Flash - DoD #412
> All-in-all Timberwoof's simpler explanation appears to have more
> generalized 'BMW bike savvy' and the less "CRAP".
There are no splines on the transmission output shaft of 1960-1981 BMW singles or
twins. There is only a taper, no splines. Therefore his point #2 is crap. The input
shaft of these bikes integrates damping device which uses splines. He forgot all about
that set of splines. (I think that k-bikes have these, too. But since I don't know, I
won't generalize.)
There are splines on the coupling bell (to the rear end / pinion gear) of all 1960-1981
BMW singles and twins. Therefore his point #3 about ONLY Paralever driveshafts having
splines is crap.
Let's add one more while we're at it... there is a SPLINED damper in the MIDDLE of the
driveshaft for all Monolever BMW twins. This is not the part "into the final drive."
He forgot that set of splines, too. (I think that k-bikes have these, too. But since
I don't know, I won't generalize.)
So, for Timberwolf's driveline-related statement "There are three sets of splines in a
BMW:", I demonstrate that there are actually four, two of which were previously not
mentioned, and one of the ones mentioned is not a spline at all. Generalized
statements which do not apply to all members of the class generalized are... crap.
Q.E.D.
Timberwoof
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Apparently not. Timberwoof's original assertion is fundamentally
> correct:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------ 1)
> engine crank shaft into the transmission input shaf (there's a
> clutch in there somwehere)
> 2) transmission output shaft into the
> driveshaft
> 3) (only on Paralever) driveshaft into the final drive.
>
> Numbers 2 and 3 need to be lubricated. (Does #1 after assembly?)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The only inaccuracy is the Paralever qualifier. I don't know if the
> Paralevel is splined or not but do know the Monolever is.
<snip>
So I'd revise 3 by removing the parenthesis, right? That is, Monolever
and Paralever both have splines at their front and back ends.
> Second, I don't know about the R-bikes but you can't "slip the motor
> forward" on a K-bike at all. Consider this paragraph from Clymer's
> K-Series 1985-1995. "The clutch and transmission housing can be
> removed from the frame as an assembly leaving the engine in the
> frame. The engine cannot [cannot is italicized] be removed leaving
> the clutch and transmission housing in the frame. This is due to the
> various frame mounting points and where they attach to these
> components." Even if you were to remove all the wiring, cooling,
> fuel, exhaust and air systems you'd still need to drop the engine to
> clear the frame mounting points and that would bend the transmission
> input shaft not to mention the clutch release pushrod.
On the oilheads, this advice is also true. Everything hangs off the
engine: transmission, rear subframe, rider, and front subframe. If you
slip the motor forward, you better have the centerstand strapped to the
front wheel so you don't drop the bike! }: )
> Third, you need not remove the swingarm or final drive to remove the
> transmission, though why one would leave them on is a mystery. Most
> people remove the final drive to lube the drive shaft splines and at
> that point swingarm removal/reinstallation takes a total of five
> minutes & no special tools.
>
> All-in-all Timberwoof's simpler explanation appears to have more
> generalized 'BMW bike savvy' and the less "CRAP".
Thank you. :-)
Grey Wolf
>> generalized 'BMW bike savvy' and the less "CRAP".
>
>There are no splines on the transmission output shaft of 1960-1981 BMW singles or
>twins. There is only a taper, no splines. Therefore his point #2 is crap.
There you go again. If this conversation was happening (or he specified
BMWs built prior to) 1980 your righteous indignation would be on point. It
isn't (and he didn't) and I'm starting to think you simply like the sound
of the word 'crap' and use it rather willy-nilly. A latent traumatic toilet
training incident as a child is not beyond the realm of possibility at this
point.
> (I think that k-bikes have these, too. But since I don't know, I won't generalize.)
But you already have! Saying you won't do so now hardly changes the fact
you applied the workings of earlier BMWs as the standard of all BMWs.
That's patently false and more than a little pretentious.
>There are splines on the coupling bell (to the rear end / pinion gear) of all 1960-1981
>BMW singles and twins. Therefore his point #3 about ONLY Paralever driveshafts having
>splines is crap.
As I mentioned with a sedate "The only inaccuracy is the Paralever
qualifier." I felt this was more apropos than the inflammatory "Utter CRAP"
>Let's add one more while we're at it... there is a SPLINED damper in the MIDDLE of the
>driveshaft for all Monolever BMW twins. This is not the part "into the final drive."
>He forgot that set of splines, too. (I think that k-bikes have these, too. But since
>I don't know, I won't generalize.)
You're expanding your field to include R-bikes manufactured from 1980 to as
late as the 1996 (in the case of the R100RT). As this is out of your
aforementioned area of expertise don't be surprised if you're corrected,
hopefully by someone less zealous than yourself. I'm tired of hearing
"crap" all the time. Hmmm... perhaps 'I' suffered some latent traumatic
toilet training incident :)
>So, for Timberwolf's....
That's Timber 'woof'. I'm Grey Wolf and he's Timberwoof and nary the twain
shall meet. He thinks BMWs are ugly! Well, he "htink"s they are anyway. Can
you imagine? :)
>..... driveline-related statement "There are three sets of splines in a
>BMW:", I demonstrate that there are actually four, two of which were previously not
>mentioned, and one of the ones mentioned is not a spline at all.
In my K75RT-P there are three sets of splines, arranged as he described. In
all fairness he may have gleened this arrangement of splines and driveshaft
from me in a previous post. Who knows?
>Generalized statements which do not apply to all members of the class generalized
>are... crap.
Using your loquacious twist of logic I submit 'Motorcycles have two wheels'
is "crap" After all the one I'm rebuilding has the wheels removed and is
one of "all members of the class generalized". Neat eh?
>Q.E.D.
But what have you proven?
Grey Wolf
>> correct:
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 2) transmission output shaft into the
>> driveshaft
>> 3) (only on Paralever) driveshaft into the final drive.
>>
>> Numbers 2 and 3 need to be lubricated. (Does #1 after assembly?)
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> The only inaccuracy is the Paralever qualifier. I don't know if the
>> Paralevel is splined or not but do know the Monolever is.
><snip>
>
>So I'd revise 3 by removing the parenthesis, right? That is, Monolever
>and Paralever both have splines at their front and back ends.
Umm.... truth be told, no. Actually, Flash "Who freely admits he doesn't
know jackshit about k-bikes" got me considering the possibility that the
R-bike Monolever might well have a different shaft design than the K-bike.
(anyone R-bike Monolevers owners out there?)
While snooping about trying to confirm this I found Wendell Duncan put up a
treasure of a site http://www.theonlynet.com/~duncan/GSParts.html "The
R80-100GS/PD Parts Page". To him I say 'kudos' and bow. Have you any idea
what a pain in the ass BMW is about parts lists? Anyways if you click on
'driveshaft' you'll find a duel u-joint monster of a drive shaft that
flange bolts to the tranny output and splines onto the final drive.
So that's three different tranny connection styles: Flash's output shaft
'taper'; the microfiche 'flange'; and the K-bike 'spline'. At least they
all appear to be splined to the final drive (you got to put some
longitudinal give in there somewhere!).
>On the oilheads, this advice is also true. Everything hangs off the
>engine: transmission, rear subframe, rider, and front subframe. If you
>slip the motor forward, you better have the centerstand strapped to the
>front wheel so you don't drop the bike! }: )
Imagine how I feel seeing as the K-bike centerstand bolts to the tranny :(
I guess there is one specialty tool required for the clutch/input shaft
lube.... a sawhorse, to hold up the bike!
>> All-in-all Timberwoof's simpler explanation appears to have more
>> generalized 'BMW bike savvy' and the less "CRAP".
>Thank you. :-)
Your ever so welcome :)
Timberwoof
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> He thinks BMWs are ugly! Well, he "htink"s they are anyway. Can
> you imagine? :)
Grey Wolf, chill out. No one doubts your expertise in things BMW. There
are other things people are beginning to think about you, though.
I just thought you were a meanie, but now I know for sure: You take
things way too seriously. I don't think BMWs are ugly ... where I said
that, it was in jest. (Go back and look at the post you're getting ready
to quote at me.)
James Clark
Grey Wolf wrote:
>
> So that's three different tranny connection styles: Flash's output shaft
> 'taper'; the microfiche 'flange'; and the K-bike 'spline'. At least they
> all appear to be splined to the final drive (you got to put some
> longitudinal give in there somewhere!).
The flange is secured to the taper with a nut.
So there are only 2 types under consideration.
(Unless you want to go back to BMW hardtails.)
Grey Wolf
Ah... I should have looked at the tranny slides as well as the drive shaft
slide. That clarifies Flash's "There is a taper on the output shaft onto
which the u-joint end of the driveshaft is bolted", which neglects to
mention the intervening 'drive flange' altogether.
Grey Wolf
>> you imagine? :)
>Grey Wolf, chill out. No one doubts your expertise in things BMW. There
>are other things people are beginning to think about you, though.
>I just thought you were a meanie, but now I know for sure: You take
>things way too seriously. I don't think BMWs are ugly ... where I said
>that, it was in jest. (Go back and look at the post you're getting ready
>to quote at me.)
Oh, Michael, Michael, Michael. When you're sarcastic it's in jest - when I
am it's malice? Where then do you draw the line? Or I? Does the smiley face
not provide a hint, and did I not see through your lack of one? Does not my
referring to you by name suggest I perused your website know you ride a
R1100GS and love it to excess? Who else would even consider "Motorcycle
Steering Dynamics Investigation" without an engineering thesis as it's
purpose? Will I ever stop the endless barrage of questions?
As for expertise in things BMW - I have none. Everything I come up with is
researched, thought not plagiarized, be it from book or internet. That I've
owned three BMWs is irrelevent. The fact is I've done so only since
September. You've had your bike ten times as long.
Timberwoof
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> He thinks BMWs are ugly! Well, he "htink"s they are anyway. Can
> >> you imagine? :)
>
> >Grey Wolf, chill out. No one doubts your expertise in things BMW.
> >There are other things people are beginning to think about you,
> >though.
>
> >I just thought you were a meanie, but now I know for sure: You take
> >things way too seriously. I don't think BMWs are ugly ... where I
> >said that, it was in jest. (Go back and look at the post you're
> >getting ready to quote at me.)
>
> Oh, Michael, Michael, Michael. When you're sarcastic it's in jest -
> when I am it's malice? Where then do you draw the line? Or I? Does
> the smiley face not provide a hint, and did I not see through your
> lack of one? Does not my referring to you by name suggest I perused
> your website know you ride a R1100GS and love it to excess? Who else
> would even consider "Motorcycle Steering Dynamics Investigation"
> without an engineering thesis as it's purpose? Will I ever stop the
> endless barrage of questions?
>
> As for expertise in things BMW - I have none. Everything I come up
> with is researched, thought not plagiarized, be it from book or
> internet. That I've owned three BMWs is irrelevent. The fact is I've
> done so only since September. You've had your bike ten times as long.
Grey Wolf, I apologize... I majorly boofed who said what, and tried --
really tried -- to cancel this article right after I wrote it. My bad.
I'll go pout now.
Grey Wolf
>> >though.
>> >I just thought you were a meanie, but now I know for sure: You take
>> >things way too seriously.
>Grey Wolf, I apologize... I majorly boofed who said what, and tried --
>really tried -- to cancel this article right after I wrote it. My bad.
>I'll go pout now.
Like pee in a swimming pool a message sent is impossible to take back :)
You needn't concern yourself or apologize as "meanie" (which by the way is
the most sedate appellation I've received yet) is frequently on point. On
numerous occassions I'll reread some message I sent and think 'what an
asshole' but generally the message was not written ad hominem but to
solicit a response regarding a particular opinion. ie. There's a world of
difference between 'Only an idiot would think so' & 'That's idiotic
thinking'.
The only exception I recall was made recently, when to Philip I typed "What
a shmuck..... what a putz.... what an ultra-maroon!". Unfortunately this
failed miserably since he didn't know that shmuck and putz are one and the
same Yiddish insult ie. 'No need repeating yourself' (not to mention for
some bizarre reason reminds me of the Three Stooges) or that "What an
embezzle, what an ultra maroon" was first uttered by Bugs Bunny. Oh well.
Some Guy on a Bike
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> babbled forth:
> Unfortunately this
> failed miserably since he didn't know that schmuck and putz are one and the
> same Yiddish insult
Er... No it ain't. Both are biological in origin, though...
--
=====================================================================
Adam Wade "The only way I'll stop riding
CWRA #4 SDWL #2 is if I stop breathing."
CIMC #1 DoD #2009 LOMP #2 1990 Zephyr 550 (Daphne)
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent
those of my employer in any form.
=====================================================================
Grey Wolf
>>that schmuck and putz are one and the same Yiddish insult
>Er... No it ain't. Both are biological in origin, though...
From The American Heritage® Dictionary
schmuck (also shmuck) Slang. A person regarded as clumsy or stupid; an oaf.
Etymology:Yiddish shmok, penis, fool, probably from Polish smok, serpent,
tail.
putz 1.Slang. A fool; an idiot. 2.Vulgar. Slang A penis.
Etymology:Yiddish pots, penis, fool.
Though I prefer....
The Yiddish Dictionary (Complete with words you wouldn't dare ask your
grandmother the meaning of) at
http://www.maxpages.com/makeoneup/Yiddish_Dictionary
Putz (or Shmuck): Vulgar. Used to refer to someone who's a real jerk, as
in: "That putz stuck me with the check again!" or "That shmuck cut me off!"
Although both are commonly used in English, they really aren't terms for
mixed company. (It seems to me that offensive foreign words have a tendency
to lose some of their bite in the translation. My Jewish mother would frown
at me if I used these indiscriminately, and so would yours.)
Timberwoof
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> Unfortunately this failed miserably since he didn't know
> >>that schmuck and putz are one and the same Yiddish insult
>
> >Er... No it ain't. Both are biological in origin, though...
>
> From The American Heritage® Dictionary
>
> schmuck (also shmuck) Slang. A person regarded as clumsy or stupid;
> an oaf. Etymology:Yiddish shmok, penis, fool, probably from Polish
> smok, serpent, tail.
A foolish etymology. What schmuck wrote that? Yiddish is a Western
Germanic language. Schmuck in German is jewel. In English we have the
expression "family Jewels."
> putz 1.Slang. A fool; an idiot. 2.Vulgar. Slang A penis.
> Etymology:Yiddish pots, penis, fool.
Putz in German is a verb meaning to clean. Someone who putzes his
schmuck is a jerk.
> Though I prefer....
> The Yiddish Dictionary (Complete with words you wouldn't dare ask
> your grandmother the meaning of) at
> http://www.maxpages.com/makeoneup/Yiddish_Dictionary
>
> Putz (or Shmuck): Vulgar. Used to refer to someone who's a real jerk,
> as in: "That putz stuck me with the check again!" or "That shmuck cut
> me off!" Although both are commonly used in English, they really
> aren't terms for mixed company. (It seems to me that offensive
> foreign words have a tendency to lose some of their bite in the
> translation. My Jewish mother would frown at me if I used these
> indiscriminately, and so would yours.)
Is there an etymology?
scooter
time. LOL
- Scooter -
Rick Damiani
>My Jewish mother would frown
>at me if I used these indiscriminately, and so would yours.)
Nuh-uh. My jewish mother doesn't exist, so it would be difficult for
her to frown. My dutch mother, OTOH...
Rick Damiani
>Rick Damiani wrote:
>>
>> Dan Nitschke <peDA...@idiom.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Rick Damiani wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dan Nitschke wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Well, some people think constantly oiling a
>> >> >chain, and replacing the chain and sprockets many
>> >> >times is easier than occasional lube.
>> >> >
>> >> >Let them.
>> >>
>> >> My Scottoiler oils the chain,
>> >
>> >So you only have to install and maintain that.
>>
>> Installation was not too bad, and maintenance amounts to filling it
>> with oil once in a while. Not too tough.
>
>That's a lot more than I do.
You could just bring it by your favorite shop and have *them* fill it
every so often.
>> >> and replacing chain and sprockets is a
>> >> 30 minute job.
>> >
>> >How often?
>>
>> Once or twice a year, depending on miles.
>
>Eek! Way too much spooge-intensive work.
Spooge is cool. I like to take off my countershaft sprocket cover
every so often and scrape the spooge into a jar for later use. It
makes a great dessert topping, and it's a good floor wax too.
>> >> doing the splines on a BMW sounds a bunch more involved
>> >> than that.
>> >
>> >Not really. When the bike's in for some other
>> >scheduled service, I say, "Oh, while you're at it,
>> >please lube the splines, OK? Thanks."
>> >
>> >3 seconds, max.
>>
>> Ah. See, I do all that stuff myself 'cause it's my neck that is riding
>> on it being done right,
>
>My neck (and the rest of my anatomy) is riding on it,
>too, y'know.
So you should do like I do - only let folks you trust do the work...
>> and I trust myself to do a good job.
>
>But you have mechanical skill. I *don't* trust myself
>with that kind of work being done to the correct level
>of goodity.
...and it sounds like you don't make the list of folks you would
trust. In that case, it's far better to pay for someone else to do the
Grey Wolf
>time. LOL
I considered this a general rather than absolute truism. I got stuck in a
loop of logic and soon after my head exploded (ouch)
:)
Nibble on this tidbit - things orbit other things (any quantum physics
types in the audience?)
Grey Wolf
>>at me if I used these indiscriminately, and so would yours.)
>
>Nuh-uh. My jewish mother doesn't exist, so it would be difficult for
>her to frown. My dutch mother, OTOH...
Not my utterance... perhaps quotes were in order. But you bring up and
interesting point - if 'jewel' in German is 'schmuck' would calling her one
be appropriate and what would the neighbors think? :)
Grey Wolf
>>
>> schmuck (also shmuck) Slang. A person regarded as clumsy or stupid;
>> an oaf. Etymology:Yiddish shmok, penis, fool, probably from Polish
>> smok, serpent, tail.
>
>A foolish etymology. What schmuck wrote that?
Why the fine folks at the American Heritage Dictionary. In retrospect this
title is rather oxymoronic. After all, the language therein predates the
American Heritage, unless you consider Native Indians whose language isn't
represented at all....
>Putz in German is a verb meaning to clean.
Putzen. To clean is putzen
> Someone who putzes his schmuck is a jerk.
Where we can segue back to driveshafts, the original thread, from 'driving
one's shaft' were this appears to be heading....
>> Though I prefer....
>> The Yiddish Dictionary (Complete with words you wouldn't dare ask
>> your grandmother the meaning of) at
>> http://www.maxpages.com/makeoneup/Yiddish_Dictionary
>>
>> Putz (or Shmuck): Vulgar. Used to refer to someone who's a real jerk,
>> as in: "That putz stuck me with the check again!" or "That shmuck cut
>> me off!" Although both are commonly used in English, they really
>> aren't terms for mixed company. (It seems to me that offensive
>> foreign words have a tendency to lose some of their bite in the
>> translation. My Jewish mother would frown at me if I used these
>> indiscriminately, and so would yours.)
>
>Is there an etymology?
No, just the homey lexicology.
Given putz as a noun can mean finery Philip could well have considered
"What a shmuck..... what a putz.... what an ultra-maroon!" to mean "What a
jewel, what a finery, what a very dark red" which sounds not unlike a ruby.
I'm not sure of this vindicates me. Philip could well consider it a veiled
way of calling him a rube. A typo of an insult hidden in an insult, as it
were :)
Dan Nitschke
>
> Dan Nitschke <peda...@idiom.com> wrote:
>
> >Rick Damiani wrote:
> >>
> >> >> My Scottoiler oils the chain,
> >> >
> >> >So you only have to install and maintain that.
> >>
> >> Installation was not too bad, and maintenance amounts to filling it
> >> with oil once in a while. Not too tough.
> >
> >That's a lot more than I do.
>
> You could just bring it by your favorite shop and have *them* fill it
> every so often.
How often is that? Seems like way too much hassle,
still, like having the shop check tire pressure [1].
> >Eek! Way too much spooge-intensive work.
>
> Spooge is cool. I like to take off my countershaft sprocket cover
> every so often and scrape the spooge into a jar for later use.
"To the happy home, with trees and flowers and chirping
birds..."
> It
> makes a great dessert topping, and it's a good floor wax too.
That's new Shimmer: for the best shine you ever tasted!
> >> Ah. See, I do all that stuff myself 'cause it's my neck that is riding
> >> on it being done right,
> >
> >My neck (and the rest of my anatomy) is riding on it,
> >too, y'know.
>
> So you should do like I do - only let folks you trust do the work...
Yes, this is very true.
I tend to buy new vehicles and maintain them meticulously,
for just this reason.
> >> and I trust myself to do a good job.
> >
> >But you have mechanical skill. I *don't* trust myself
> >with that kind of work being done to the correct level
> >of goodity.
>
> ...and it sounds like you don't make the list of folks you would
> trust.
Duh!
> In that case, it's far better to pay for someone else to do the
> work.
That's what I think, and that's what I do.
[1] That's why we have Dagny and Dominique, for crying out
loud.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, BOF #26, GAGARPHOF (tm) #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke peDA...@idiom.com (.)@(.....).net
***************************************************
They call me... *MISTER* Pig! -- Pumbaa
Timberwoof
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >> From The American Heritage® Dictionary
> >>
> >> schmuck (also shmuck) Slang. A person regarded as clumsy or
> >> stupid; an oaf. Etymology:Yiddish shmok, penis, fool, probably
> >> from Polish smok, serpent, tail.
> >
> >A foolish etymology. What schmuck wrote that?
>
> Why the fine folks at the American Heritage Dictionary.
... of the English Language, who are experts in the etymology of words
of the English laguage. Yiddish isn't, last I checked, English. }: )
> In retrospect
> this title is rather oxymoronic. After all, the language therein
> predates the American Heritage, unless you consider Native Indians
> whose language isn't represented at all....
>
> >Putz in German is a verb meaning to clean.
>
> Putzen. To clean is putzen
Depends on the case. After dinner, my parents would admonish me thus:
"Putz dir die Zaehne!"
Flash - DoD #412
[a bunch of deleted crap]
Your laser-like focus on the word "crap" lends credence to the supposition that you are
coprophagous.
- Flash (done with THIS discussion... eeewww...)
Grey Wolf
You took two and a half days to find a relevent insult? I'm..... strangely
flattered. And my sister would agree with you - when she was five. She used
to run around yelling "Potty mouth, potty mouth" every time I said "fart"
instead of "fluff". Her and her sensibilities :) I wonder what she would
do now, what with her teaching at university and all.
Excerpt from 'The Theory of Infantile Sexuality'
From his [Freud's] account of the instincts or drives it followed that
from the moment of birth the infant is driven in his actions by the
desire for bodily/sexual pleasure, where this is seen by Freud in almost
mechanical terms as the desire to release mental energy. Initially,
infants gain such release, and derive such pleasure, through the act of
sucking, and Freud accordingly terms this the 'oral' stage of
development. This is followed by a stage in which the locus of pleasure
or energy release is the anus, particularly in the act of defecation, and
this is accordingly termed the 'anal' stage.
Further reading is at http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/freud.htm#Infa
It is my hypothesis that you are developmentally trapped between these two
stages - and that, as a result, you are afflicted with fecalphelia. But
don't take my word for it. You should aways get a second opinion with such
a diagnosis.
http://www.spdownloads.com/sounds/epi_110/110_fecalphilia.wav
So it's confirmed. You are fecalpheliac....
Bon Appétit!
No, no, no - just kidding! just kidding! :)
What you have to do is admit the problem. Until you can acknowledge it's
existences you're only exacerbating the condition.
Repeat after me "I'm a clinically depressed fecalpheliac on prozac."
http://www.spdownloads.com/sounds/epi_110/110_depressed.wav
Again
http://www.spdownloads.com/sounds/epi_110/110_depressed.wav
Again
http://www.spdownloads.com/sounds/epi_110/110_depressed.wav
Good, good. Make this your mantra. And once you can admit the problem to
yourself come then come back to the NG, Ok?
But for Gods sake use some mouthwash first!
Timberwoof
<agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Excerpt from 'The Theory of Infantile Sexuality'
> From his [Freud's] account of the instincts or drives it followed that
> from the moment of birth the infant is driven in his actions by the
> desire for bodily/sexual pleasure, where this is seen by Freud in
> almost
> mechanical terms as the desire to release mental energy. Initially,
> infants gain such release, and derive such pleasure, through the act of
> sucking, and Freud accordingly terms this the 'oral' stage of
> development. This is followed by a stage in which the locus of pleasure
> or energy release is the anus, particularly in the act of defecation,
> and
> this is accordingly termed the 'anal' stage.
> Further reading is at http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/freud.htm#Infa
I think Freud was full of shit.
csoto
<sp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>In article <ndpk5t00gm7s9sjlf...@4ax.com>, Grey Wolf
><agreywol...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> Excerpt from 'The Theory of Infantile Sexuality'
>> From his [Freud's] account of the instincts or drives it followed that
>> from the moment of birth the infant is driven in his actions by the
>> desire for bodily/sexual pleasure, where this is seen by Freud in
>> almost
>> mechanical terms as the desire to release mental energy. Initially,
>> infants gain such release, and derive such pleasure, through the act of
>> sucking, and Freud accordingly terms this the 'oral' stage of
>> development. This is followed by a stage in which the locus of pleasure
>> or energy release is the anus, particularly in the act of defecation,
>> and
>> this is accordingly termed the 'anal' stage.
>> Further reading is at http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/freud.htm#Infa
>
>I think Freud was full of shit.
Sometimes a poop is just a poop.
Tell me about your mother...
Charles
--
Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1979 KZ650, 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. uno
Free Tibet!*
* With purchase of equal or greater value. Not available in all stores.
(If you can't figure out my email, you should unplug the WebTV and lie down.)
Timberwoof
<csoto_i...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <spam-CAA2D4.0...@ca.news.verio.net>, Timberwoof
> <sp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>
> >I think Freud was full of shit.
>
>
> Sometimes a poop is just a poop.
>
> Tell me about your mother...
Tell you about my mother? I'll tell you about my mother!
::kablooie!::
(From _Bladerunner_)
Some Guy on a Bike
wrote:
> Tell you about my mother? I'll tell you about my mother!
Anyone else notice the glaring continuity error in ALL versions of
that film, relating to that line?
Bonus points for anyone besides me who knows the answer. I;{>
cya...@gvii.net
R.Williams
hen...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Could someone explain why BMW's bikes still use the maintenance intensive
> front and rear spline lubrication design versus all the Japanese bikes with
> shaft drive seem to be maintenance free shaft drive designs.
>
> What are the Japanese doing so much better in maintenance free Shaft drive
> designs? Why does BMW keep doing it this way?
>
> Frankly, the maintenance of the front and rear splines on the BMW's
> makes chain drive look attractive.
>
> Regards,
> Henri
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/