safe group riding (was: getting passed by jerks)
Robert....@cs.cmu.edu
so, what is safe group riding behavior? i regularly drive with one
other motorcyclist, though frequently with a few other friends. what is
the best lane position, how far apart? what are some good signals to
help communicate?
HOG and GWRRA members please share your secrets!
thanks,
bob (hav...@cmu.edu)
Michael J. Sheldon
:
: so, what is safe group riding behavior? i regularly drive with one
: thanks,
: bob (hav...@cmu.edu)
:
My wife and I ride staggered formation always. I usually lead, on
the left side of the lane. My wife is usually on the right side, 1-2
seconds behind, depending on conditions. We have been riding like this
since we started riding together (little over a year), and it has served
us VERY well. There have been a couple of "incidents" where her being
able to see in front of me has kept her (and me) out of trouble. It also
means that she can safely overshoot me if I stop suddenly.
The lead is always from the left. I find my visibility at
intersections is better, and I believe I can be seen easier. Also, when
passing, it gives me more "reaction space" in case the car next to me
moves into my lane. Once I am past the driver, they will rarely make
stupid moves into my lane, which keeps my wife safe.
As far as actual lane position... I try to stay near the "wheel
tracks" of the cars, but not in them. Too much crap in the wheel grooves.
Oh yeah, one more reason for leading from the left. A driver is
much more likely to check the driver's side outside mirror than the
passenger side mirror (assuming they even have one).
Signals.... Well, truth to tell we don't really have any. If the
leader needs to pull over, use the turn signals and point. If the
follower needs to pull over, hit the horn a couple of times, put the turn
signal on, and pull over. Anything that needs to be said can then be done
at the side of the road.
BTW, we make a pretty interesting group, me on my '91 FJ1200, and
her on a '93 HD 1200 Sportster. <G>
Michael Sheldon - mshe...@crl.com
Jeff Oesterle
|> Robert....@cs.cmu.edu wrote:
|> :
|> : so, what is safe group riding behavior? i regularly drive with one
|>
|> the left side of the lane. My wife is usually on the right side, 1-2
|> seconds behind, depending on conditions. We have been riding like this
|> since we started riding together (little over a year), and it has served
|> us VERY well. There have been a couple of "incidents" where her being
|> able to see in front of me has kept her (and me) out of trouble. It also
|> means that she can safely overshoot me if I stop suddenly.
|> The lead is always from the left. I find my visibility at
|> intersections is better, and I believe I can be seen easier. Also, when
|> passing, it gives me more "reaction space" in case the car next to me
|> moves into my lane. Once I am past the driver, they will rarely make
|> stupid moves into my lane, which keeps my wife safe.
|>
Hmm. I always worry about the BDIC that's going to see the lead bike go
by, and then pull over right behind.
If I'm following, and we're passinga car, I'll usually use the full lane
to give me more of a space cushion around the car I'm passing.
This puts me right behind (and fairly close to the lead bike), but it's
only temporary. It seems to me that the car is the greater danger in this
situation than the lead bike being close.
--
Jeff Oesterle
================
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens,
nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
- George Bush
"<choke> <cough> Say WHAT?!?!?!?"
"Hey, at least he's not President anymore."
================
(Disclaim, disclaim, disclaim.)
Paul Thompson
>so, what is safe group riding behavior? i regularly drive with one
>other motorcyclist, though frequently with a few other friends. what is
>the best lane position, how far apart? what are some good signals to
>help communicate?
-------------- Begin Enclosed Text ----------------
Here's some signals that I use when I go riding in groups. Most of them are
pretty self-explanatory, so they work even with riders who haven't encountered
them before. If anyone has more, I'd like to hear them.
Point to tank - I need gas, stop at the next station
Point at ground - Careful, there's something on the road (Note that you aren't
pointing at the hazard necessarily, as this might not be convenient) Also,
point at ground, rub fingers together - road is slippery.
Flash brake lights very rapidly - Major watch out! Be prepared to stop QUICK.
Point at sign - read the sign. If it's a highway sign with multiple exits
listed, hold up the number of fingers corresponding to which exit you want (e.g.
two fingers for the second exit listed)
Point at another rider, then pat leg - you want that rider to come alongside you
(usually so you can talk)
Point at another rider, then point to side of road - pull over now.
Arm out, palm back - stay behind me
Arm out, forward waving - go past me
Waving arm in quick downward motion, with palm down and parallel to ground -
slow down! Often used for bikes traveling in the opposite direction to warn of
hazard or police.
Tap top of helmet, or hand on helmet - cop nearby (This signal is designed to
be both noticable and undecipherable by the cop)
Point forward, shrug shoulders - I don't know where we're going, I probably
shouldn't be leading!
Little wave to oncoming motorcyclist - "Aren't motorcycles great?"
Finally, when someone gives you a signal, you should nod your head so they know
you understand, since they can't see your face very well behind a helmet.
Next, here are some hints for formations for various types of riding:
On the highway - staggered within one lane to provide good visibility for all
riders. Lead rider should ride smoothly, and not shoot into gaps that aren't
big enough for the whole group (if possible). Leader also should point out
exits in advance by pointing to signs, and get in the correct lane soon enough
so the entire pack can follow safely. When changing lanes, the leader should
maintain the same relative position in the new lane, so the stagger doesn't have
to propagate all the way back. Riders should try to note how many are behind
them. Everyone should know what the exit is before hand just in case. Riders
should not pass each other, as it messes up the stagger and makes it hard to
keep track of where everyone is in the pack.
Canyon Bombing - Single file, fastest to slowest. Leaders should stop at
intersections if there's a chance someone could make a wrong turn, and also
periodically (perhaps every 10 minutes) to make sure everybody's still there.
Be sure to signal turns well in advance. Don't fixate on the rider ahead, watch
the road. If this is a problem, drop back. When passing cars, don't assume
that when the rider ahead of you goes, you can too, or that they won't abort
their pass and nail the brakes! When passing multiple cars, watch for the cars
deciding to pass also! Glance in your mirrors before pulling out.
City Streets - Two per lane at stops, staggered while riding. Don't split
traffic if not everyone has their own lane. Signal and get in the correct lane
in plenty of time. Avoid unnecessary lane changes. With larger groups it won't
be possible to stay together, so split into smaller groups. If someone gets
stranded at a light (leaders must watch for this!), the leaders can pull to the
side of the road in single file and wait for them, assuming there aren't too
many leaders.
In all cases, the leaders must keep track of what is happening behind them, as
it is much more difficult to pass information forward than back. It can also
be a good idea to designate a "sweeper", generally an experienced rider who
agrees to ride last in line and make sure everyone is OK.
It's much more enjoyable (and safe) when everyone in the group follows the
same plan. Happy riding!
-------------- End Enclosed Text ------------------
--
Paul Thompson Apple Computer
Michael J. Sheldon
: by, and then pull over right behind.
: If I'm following, and we're passinga car, I'll usually use the full lane
: to give me more of a space cushion around the car I'm passing.
: This puts me right behind (and fairly close to the lead bike), but it's
: only temporary. It seems to me that the car is the greater danger in this
: situation than the lead bike being close.
: --
: Jeff Oesterle
Gee, maybe THAT'S why my wife closes up a little when we pass! <G>
Absolutely true tho'. Since I lead 98% of the time, I don't think
about that as much. My wife however, rarely leads, therefore, she is much
more concerned.
I find, generally, that when I am far enough forward that the box
driver might pull out, my wife has reached a point where she could spit on
his windshield. Not that she'd ever do that, of course, she's got much
more class than I do. <G>
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Michael J. Sheldon |Be thy intents wicked or charitable, Thou
mshe...@crl.com |com'st in such a shape that I will speak
75030...@compuserve.com |with thee. Hamlet, Act I, scene iv.
131P10000-FranklinKL(DR8219)252
Appropriate group riding depends a great deal on the type of road
and the number of bikes in the group. On interstate type hiways and open
rural hiways, the staggered formation works well. Note I said staggered -
not side-by side. Ride so that you can be seen in the mirror of the bike in
front of you. On twisty roads or roads or streets with lots of side
streets, it is usually best to forgo the staggered formation and ride in
properly spaced (use the 2 second rule) single file. This allows each bike
the full use of the lane and permits each rider to chose the best line
through corners.
Never let the group get too large. Try and keep a contiguous group to
about 5 bikes or less. If you have more, split into multiple groups.
Place the riders most experienced in group riding at the front and rear
of the group, with the least experienced in the middle. Within the scope of
this rule, if some of the bikes are CB equipped, station them at the front
and rear.
Make sure that the basic rules and procedures are agreed upon before starting.
This involves such things as the location of planned stops, how to deal with
stragglers, etc. Once on the road, hand signals are useful for communication.
There are different systems of hand signals in use. The important thing
is that they be kept simple and that everyone understands them.
One thing that has been mentioned in this forum before, but is VERY important.
If you find yourself at the rear of the pack and the pack seems to be
outdistancing you, remember to RIDE AT A PACE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH.
Never try to keep up if it means out-riding your abilities or comfort level.
If you are the leader of the group, be aware of the last person in the
group and remember the above. Don't be guilty of setting a pace that the
slowest rider is uncomfortable with.
Group riding is largely common sense but following a few simple rules can
greatly improve the experience for everyone.
Robert D Castro
131P10000-FranklinKL(DR8219)252 <k...@longs.att.com> wrote:
>In article <Ighl0Wy00...@cs.cmu.edu> Robert....@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>>
>>so, what is safe group riding behavior? i regularly drive with one
>>other motorcyclist, though frequently with a few other friends. what is
>>the best lane position, how far apart? what are some good signals to
>>help communicate?
>>
>greatly improve the experience for everyone.
>
I also would like to add: try to get a feel of how the group rides are.
This past Sunday a local motorcycle shop was offering/going on a group
ride to Marcus Dairy (a large gathering of riders of all type of
bikes). I was also offered to join in a group of people (about 10)
who were leaving from my neighborhood. The neighborhood people are
very squidly. (You know the type - 90mph in 10 feet) So I decided
that I probably wouldn't like to ride with them. So I decided to go
with the group from the cycle shop.
When I showed up (the first one to show up for the ride) others
started to show up. I started to talk with them and I said to myself
that they could be fun to ride with but as more gathered I was less
likely that I wanted to ride with them. They seemed to squidly for
me. My decision was made for me when the 7:00 leave time arrived.
Two of the shop personnel didn't want to wait for two others who were
suppose to attend the ride so seven of them blasted off not caring to
wait for their friends. I said to myself if they wouldn't even wait
for a friend they are certainly not going to wait for a newbie.
The other two shop personnel were much more friendlier (sp?) and
even though we had a late start is was a *very* comfortable pace with
now 30 of us. It was a very enjoyable ride!
Summary - Try to get a feel of the type of riders in the group. As in
my case the group actully split so the decision was made easier for
me.
o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o> o&o>
Rob Castro | email - rd...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu | Live for today
1983 KZ550LTD | phone - (212) 854-7617 | For today you live!
DoD# NYC-1 | New York, New York, USA | RC (tm)
Tod Johnson (617) 275-1800 x2317
: so, what is safe group riding behavior?
Bob;
An oustanding inquiry Bob. A topic directly related to the enjoyment
and safety of motorcycling is welcomed here. So much crap is posted here,
and this thread will be a welcomed reminder that we are here to dicuss the
recreation and sport of motorcycling. Bravo.
The foremost concern of group rides that I have been on with other
people is of course safety. If you're not riding safely, you shouldn't be
riding at all. With Group riding comes an even greater concern for safety
with each rider realizing their actions could be a danger for others in the
group. I group ride almost every Sunday up to the Rowley Pancake House with
a fine group of men and woman, and we have devised a scheme where the utmost
in safety is provided to riders who are less prone to danger than others. We
all agree that most group riding accidents are caused by an ouraged citizen
launching a home-made grenade at members of the group who are riding a Japanese
motorcycle. Can't really blame the citizen, but the targetted rider goes down
in a ball of flames and the unfortuante followers are dragged down with
them. A tragedy to say the least. When riding, try to adhere to the following
regulations...........
1) Rice in the back.
2) No Yellow Bandannas or other wussy fashion statements allowed.
3) Wave to all small children
Hope this helps;
Tod J. Johnson
DoD #883
"Go Slow, Take Geritol"
Blaine Gardner
> I find, generally, that when I am far enough forward that the box
>driver might pull out, my wife has reached a point where she could spit on
>his windshield. Not that she'd ever do that, of course, she's got much
>more class than I do. <G>
But does she wear a full-face helmet? :-)
--
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108
blga...@sim.es.com BIX: blai...@bix.com FJ1200 XR600R LT250R DoD#46
"We usually don't stop until friction and gravity are finished." Merf
Michael J. Sheldon
: But does she wear a full-face helmet? :-)
Depends. For slow, in-town riding, she prefers a shorty.
However, any time we head out for a RIDE, it's full-face. 'Course, now
that summer is fading away, the full-face gets a bit of use in town too.
(Phoenix, AZ) (gee, it's been three days since the temperature hit 100!)
8-)
Chris BeHanna
>them. A tragedy to say the least. When riding, try to adhere to the following
>regulations...........
>
>1) Rice in the back.
Aw, Tod, this means I can't get my bike out of second gear if I want
to ride with you. :-)
>2) No Yellow Bandannas or other wussy fashion statements allowed.
Black and white Geekys (or four color versions) are acceptable.
>3) Wave to all small children
Hell, wave to anyone who waves at you, too. Preteen boys are
particularly prone to giving you a thumbs up, and they seem to appreciate being
acknowledged with a wave. This seems to be especially true as the weather gets
colder.
Later,
--
Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
beh...@syl.nj.nec.com 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer: Now why would NEC <Looking for a race bike for this space.>
agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.
Jon Costa
hris BeHanna) writes:
>In article <CEqu3...@cvbnet.CV.COM> tjoh...@tazmanian.prime.com (Tod Johnson
(617) 275-1800 x2317) writes:
>>them. A tragedy to say the least. When riding, try to adhere to the following
>>regulations...........
>>
>>1) Rice in the back.
>
> Aw, Tod, this means I can't get my bike out of second gear if I want
>to ride with you. :-)
>
>>2) No Yellow Bandannas or other wussy fashion statements allowed.
>
> Black and white Geekys (or four color versions) are acceptable.
>
>>3) Wave to all small children
>
> Hell, wave to anyone who waves at you, too. Preteen boys are
>particularly prone to giving you a thumbs up, and they seem to appreciate being
>acknowledged with a wave. This seems to be especially true as the weather gets
>^^^^^^
Are you just testing us to see if we're listening? What does cold weather
have to do with it?
-- Jon DoD#1830
Dan Snider
>beh...@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
>>tjoh...@tazmanian.prime.com (Tod Johnson (617) 275-1800 x2317) writes:
>>>
>>>3) Wave to all small children
>>
>> Hell, wave to anyone who waves at you, too. Preteen boys are
>>particularly prone to giving you a thumbs up, and they seem to appreciate being
>>acknowledged with a wave. This seems to be especially true as the weather gets
>>colder. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>^^^^^^
>
>Are you just testing us to see if we're listening? What does cold weather
>have to do with it?
I always wave to the kids with a wheelie and cold weather just seems to make
the tire spin for me.
#6660, "but wherever we go, we'll always know,
that the land we stand on, is never our own"
Chris BeHanna
>Chris BeHanna writes:
>
>> Hell, wave to anyone who waves at you, too. Preteen boys are
>>particularly prone to giving you a thumbs up, and they seem to appreciate being
>>acknowledged with a wave. This seems to be especially true as the weather gets
>>colder. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>^^^^^^
>
>Are you just testing us to see if we're listening? What does cold weather
>have to do with it?
Simple: cold weather drives the squids and posers back into their
cages. Anyone still riding is guaranteed to be a "real biker," and the kids
know it.
Later,
--
Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 KotSTA 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Andy Woodward
>cages. Anyone still riding is guaranteed to be a "real biker," and the kids
>know it.
Hey Blaine, when I dropped in, you were in the truck! And it was only
September! And the temperature was 86!