Juggling event info compiled?

[Joseph Lemien]

Is there any Juggling app for iPhone or website that complies info on time and locations of various juggling festivals/events from all over the world? For instance, one that grabs data from the IJA, from inbaz.org, from Japan Juggling Association, and from other country-specific sites? Will I have to check 3 or 4 different sites a few times a year to learn about all the juggling events happening around the world, or is there a single location to check?

[Norbi]

I do agree it would be cool and useful, but I love seeing how lazy people have
become now that everything is so incredibly easily available.

Joseph Lemien wrote:
> Will I have t=
> o check 3 or 4 different sites a few times a year to learn about all the ju=
> ggling events happening around the world, or is there a single location to =
> check?
>

3 or 4 sites, a few times per year = giving you a good month of preparation to
go and click on each link.

Funny what we now consider to be too much effort.


--
----== posted via www.jugglehub.com ==----

[TK]

On 5/27/2012 7:07 AM, Norbi wrote:
> I do agree it would be cool and useful, but I love seeing how lazy people have
> become now that everything is so incredibly easily available.
>
> Joseph Lemien wrote:
>> Will I have t=
>> o check 3 or 4 different sites a few times a year to learn about all the ju=
>> ggling events happening around the world, or is there a single location to =
>> check?
>>

How did all the = signs get in Joseph's message? I am fairly certain
you (Norbi) did not insert them.

--
TK ~ aka Terry Kimpling
http://wejuggle2.com/video.php
Soon to be called "Tricks I could do when I was only 65!"

[JJ Conductor]

Joseph Lemien wrote:
>
> Is there any Juggling app for iPhone or website that complies info on time
and locations of various juggling festivals/events from all over the world?

Here at http://JuggleJunction.org we hope to provide such a list. As with
many things it can get a little tricky. Yesterday I spent several hours
trying to figure out good ways to display on maps where upcoming events
are happening, so as to make the lookup easier for users.

Ideally we'd like to find a way to tailor the listings to the juggler
checking our site. Some events are probably only of local interest (few
people and short duration). Other events the whole world may consider
going to (eg EJC or the free WJF).

Regardless, we do have a listing up now, and hope to improve it's
presentation in the next few weeks.

--Dave, Juggle Junction Conductor


--
----== posted via www.JuggleJunction.org ==----

[Aidan]

> IJDb had a JAVA globe that you could rotate with the mouse and zoom in and
out. It could
display club locations or festival locations. I believe someone else
created it and let Colin use it.
Maybe worth inquiring about.
Aidan.

[JJ Conductor]

Thanks. Yes if anyone knows of existing code we can use, please let us
know.

In a related question, does everyone have java turned on? I've been
trying to use non-java approaches, but if everyone has it turned on, then
maybe we will utilize it. Do smart phones have it on?

--Dave, Juggle Junction Conductor

[Orinoco]

I never found the globe particularly useful for events, but if others do,
I have just done a quick search & replace of 'club' to 'event' on the Edge
clubs map to create this new page:

http://www.jugglingedge.com/eventmap.php

Any use?


For those that are not aware all Edge data is available for reuse:
http://www.jugglingedge.com/feeds/

Club & event data is already being used by the IJA & event data is being
used by the heffZipDrop bot in ##juggling.


Warning, subtle hint approaching.

I hope the other 2 will be sharing their data too (& I want *at least* as
much data as I'm already collecting :)


--
Orin - wishing he was at Bungay already.
http://www.jugglingedge.com

[JJ Conductor]

Orinoco wrote:
>
>
> I never found the globe particularly useful for events, but if others do,
> I have just done a quick search & replace of 'club' to 'event' on the Edge
> clubs map to create this new page:
>
> http://www.jugglingedge.com/eventmap.php
>
> Any use?

I think it is cool. That said I'm nervous of the "terms of use". It
appears I've legally agreed to things just by clicking on it. There are
worst companies than Google, but I don't trust them entirely.

>
> For those that are not aware all Edge data is available for reuse:
> http://www.jugglingedge.com/feeds/
>
> Club & event data is already being used by the IJA & event data is being
> used by the heffZipDrop bot in ##juggling.
>
> Warning, subtle hint approaching.
>
> I hope the other 2 will be sharing their data too (& I want *at least* as
> much data as I'm already collecting :)

A word about data "sharing":

At a basic level, I suspect that we all want to share data. Even if we
don't, it is pretty much impossible NOT to share data. Once anyone
publishes an event, other sites can read that data and use it.

But it gets thorny after that. For example, who is going to do the actual
work? Data often needs to be manually checked and cleaned. My
understanding is that Mini and others did this for IJDb. At Juggle
Junction, we aren't just thinking about how to display data collected by
others, we are thinking about how to best gather that data. How to make
it easiest on the organizers of clubs and events. How to give our team
tools to find the events that are currently falling through the cracks and
not being displayed. We think there is room for improvement.

There also is the question of what data to collect? We may not all want
to use the same data set. Also some data may be private. For example, I
don't plan on publishing/sharing email addresses. Right now, we (all the
juggling sites) are pretty much using the IJDb data set. That is easy for
us to share. But as we extend our website's functionality and offer the
next generation of juggling tools, it may get more difficult to do so.

Orinoco, from your statements (like the "*at least*") I'm guessing you too
want to extend the data set and hopefully improve the process. Right? By
all means lets stay in touch.

--Dave, Juggle Junction Conductor (who also would love to be at Bungay
right now)

[Orinoco]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 19:09:36 +0100, JJ Conductor
<fake....@example.com.nospam.com> wrote:

> Orinoco, from your statements (like the "*at least*") I'm guessing you
> too want to extend the data set and hopefully improve the process.
> Right?

You've not had a look yet have you? I've sent you an invitation :)

A quick overview of the best bits:

* You remain in control of your listing & are able to edit it at any time,
you also get to appoint other editors if you wish.

* Events can be grouped under an organisation, users can get updates of
new festivals that they've attended in the past.

* Events can have sub events, eg. BYJOTY or the BKO happen within the BJC.

* You can create workshop (or any other sort of) timetable(s).

* Events can be created by copying & editing a past event's details, so
for some events it is as easy as changing the dates.

* You don't have to enter a country, region, address, lat/long coordinates
& a map URL, I get all that from the address.

* All event dates are exportable via iCal.

* There is a dedicated HLGCBS system.

* We have a trivia system
http://www.jugglingedge.com/trivia.php?EventID=2& this is one of my
favourite features because it allows you to browse events by things like
number of ambulances called.


--
Orin - who did say he wasn't going to do that
http://www.jugglingedge.com

[Dave Cheetham]

On 28/05/12 2:17 AM, JJ Conductor wrote:

> In a related question, does everyone have java turned on? I've been
> trying to use non-java approaches, but if everyone has it turned on, then
> maybe we will utilize it.

I don't know about everyone else, but for me it's off by default. If I
see something not working as it should I check whether there are any
scripts being blocked. If so, I weigh up how much I trust the site vs
how much I want the functionality and decide whether to allow the script.

Dave

[Thom Wall]

Joseph Lemien wrote:
> Is there any Juggling app for iPhone or website that complies info on time =
> and locations of various juggling festivals/events from all over the world?=
> For instance, one that grabs data from the IJA, from inbaz.org, from Japan=
> Juggling Association, and from other country-specific sites? Will I have t=
> o check 3 or 4 different sites a few times a year to learn about all the ju=
> ggling events happening around the world, or is there a single location to =
> check?
>


The Do Stuff With Things podcast homepage has exactly what you're looking for,
I think!

http://www.dostuffwiththings.net/event-calendar/

--Thom

[JJ Conductor]

Orinoco wrote:
>
> A quick overview of the best bits:
>
> * You remain in control of your listing & are able to edit it at any time,
> you also get to appoint other editors if you wish.

..


Some good ideas there. I'd thought of many of them too. I agree that the
trivia is nice.

[JJ Conductor]

That is pretty much what I do to. I'm kind of bummed that I never even
knew/saw the IJDb's globe or siteswap functions. I would have turned it
on to see. Still in general I think it best to design a website to be as
functional as possible without java/flash/....

[Emily Winch]

> That is pretty much what I do to. I'm kind of bummed that I never even
> knew/saw the IJDb's globe or siteswap functions. I would have turned it
> on to see. Still in general I think it best to design a website to be as
> functional as possible without java/flash/....

There's an awful lot can be done these days using pure javascript/CSS. Lots of
very powerful javascript libraries, lots of toolkits to help out with the old
browser support side of things, and browsers support it out of the box.

Both Java and Flash have problems with distribution on mobile devices, not to
mention requiring a plugin download which a lot of people can't be bothered to
do or don't know how. But I'm a bit confused by how you can not even know of a
Java applet's existence! I'd expect the page it's on to work, with the applet
replaced by a box saying that you don't have the plugin, so you at least know
you're missing something.

Emily

[Jay Linn]

The Wayback Machine to the rescue!
http://web.archive.org/web/20110614083331/http://www.jugglingdb.com/globe/index.php?show=clubs;

Just like the original IJDb page it takes longer to load than you think
because the Java is still loading even when the globe appears. It will
seem to be non-functional for a minute or so but be patient and it will
work.

LMB and drag to rotate the globe; RMB and drag to zoom.

--
Jay Linn

http://juggler.net/lestival

[Joseph Lemien]

Hahaha, yes, it wouldn't save too much time or effort. :D Perhaps just 30 or 40 minutes of searching various websites and writing the information into my calender every 60 monnths. But it would certainly be nice to be notified automatically whenever there is a juggling event within the next 3 months within X miles of my current location.

[JJ Conductor]

Emily Winch wrote:
>
>
> > That is pretty much what I do to. I'm kind of bummed that I never even
> > knew/saw the IJDb's globe or siteswap functions. I would have turned it
> > on to see. Still in general I think it best to design a website to be as
> > functional as possible without java/flash/....
>
> There's an awful lot can be done these days using pure javascript/CSS. Lots
of
> very powerful javascript libraries, lots of toolkits to help out with the old
> browser support side of things, and browsers support it out of the box.
>
> Both Java and Flash have problems with distribution on mobile devices, not to
> mention requiring a plugin download which a lot of people can't be bothered
to
> do or don't know how.

I tend to agree.

> But I'm a bit confused by how you can not even know of a
> Java applet's existence! I'd expect the page it's on to work, with the applet
> replaced by a box saying that you don't have the plugin, so you at least know
> you're missing something.

I probably never went to "globe" page. Looking in the way-back machine,
It appears I would have needed to click on the "interactive club locater",
which I doubt I ever did. Perhaps the link isn't even offered if java not
available?

[JJ Conductor]

Jay Linn wrote:
>
> The Wayback Machine to the rescue!
>
http://web.archive.org/web/20110614083331/http://www.jugglingdb.com/globe/index.php?show=clubs;

Thanks Jay!

I had a lot of fun looking at it and spinning it. I doubt that we will
use it, though. I noticed that even a few years ago, Colin was thinking
about switching to the Google maps version. Google's is cool, but I'd
rather avoid the the Google legal "terms of use" stuff. I think I've
found some promising unrestricted options. We will see if the work out.

--Dave, Juggle Junction Conductor

[JJ Conductor]

We are hoping that Juggle Junction will offer that service. There are a
few issues to be decided before we can turn it on. One of them you
already mentioned; what "X" distance should be used to notify events?

I'm thinking some events like EJC draw people from all over the world, and
everyone might want to know when it comes up. Other events are clearly
local, and probably are only of interest within a small area. Event
listers might turn out to have a tendency to over-estimate the appeal of
their particular event.

Also, what events should be listed? Are Renaissance faires and fire
circles considered juggling events? How about unicycles, yoyos and
footbags?

Our goal is to provide useful information without being drowned in events
you aren't interested in. A tough juggling act (if you'll pardon the
pun). :)

[Joseph Lemien]

This calendar looks pretty good. It isn't esactly the kind of completely automatic thing I was envisioning, but it is WAY better than anything else that I have found so far. Thanks a bunch for pointing it out, Thom!

[Joseph Lemien]

Actually, some of the problems that you mention here concerning professionalization are why I thought of an app rather than a webpage. (obviously, the trouble with an app is the exclusivity: anyone without a certain type of phone is unable to use it).

Although I like the idea of having a single Google calendar with everything on it, allowing people to personally pick and choose, would it be theoretically possible to set up an email service that emailed people automatically? I think that automating it is a must, otherwise someone will have to do continuous work on the other end. But having it personalized (such as email) allows people to choose preferences. For instance, people could choose to be notified of events of a particular type (perhaps unicycle events, but not juggling conventions or Ren Fests) happening within X miles/kilometers of their location, Y weeks ahead of time, and scanning websites A and B, but not C or D. Allowing people to set the variables for their own email service would be technically possible, and the data could be provided by one of two options: either people submit events to the email service, or a program trawls specific websites for event info. (I think that choosing the specific websites is important. For example, the Spanish site circoforum.net has tons of info that I haven't seen anywhere else on the English-language web, while the German site https://www.inbaz.org/calendar has tons of events, but their are mostly small-scale local events)

In fact, I am getting so excited about this... does anyone know how much it costs to hire a freelance app developer? I would definitely be willing to put in 50€ to make a tool like this (and to know that I would have made my mark on the juggling world). Do you think it would be possible to get a collaborative effort to built a program/iPhone app/Adroid app/website/service along these lines? Perhaps we could start a Kickstarter project...

[Emily Winch]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 18:09:36 +0000, JJ Conductor wrote:

> At a basic level, I suspect that we all want to share data. Even if we
> don't, it is pretty much impossible NOT to share data. Once anyone
> publishes an event, other sites can read that data and use it.
>
> But it gets thorny after that. For example, who is going to do the
> actual work? Data often needs to be manually checked and cleaned. My
> understanding is that Mini and others did this for IJDb.

The IJDb listings suffered very badly from spam attacks; there was a lot
of work required cleaning the data.

The new systems will no doubt fly under the spam radar for a while, but
anything successful will start to attract the attention of the viagra
brigade at some point.

E.