WJF rules
Mike Hughey
Does anyone know what is meant by the patterns in the WJF contest rules
with the "X"'s on them? 64X, for instance, or 74X?
For 64X, I'd think they probably mean (6,4x)(4x,6), although maybe they
mean a half shower (6x,4x), but then again, maybe it's something else
entirely.
I have no idea what 74X could mean. Any ideas?
Just looking for other ideas for 5-ball patterns, I guess.
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
lyric
thanks
Sky534
> asking about what mean :Crotch Throws are now called Body Throws
> thanks
> asking about what mean :Crotch Throws are now called Body Throws
> thanks
I believe "body throws", aka crotch throws are the club trick [move?] more
commonly known [at least here in the States] as Alberts. So-called because
the move was named after American juggler Albert Lucas who [I assume]
either created or [more likely] popularized it. The reverse of said move
is conveniently known as Treblas.
Some jugglers have objected to it being named after a specific individual
and are looking for a more generic term. But juggling names can be hard
to shed. I know Michael Moschen is not happy to have the manipulation he
created commonly known as "contact juggling", a name which I think was
coined by the guy who wrote that first contact juggling "how to" book,
James Ernest.
But that's the name we all know and since Michael didn't name it anything
at the time, I'm pretty sure he'd be hard-pressed to change it now.
[Sorry, Michael - you know I like you]
Personally - I always thought "crotch throws" sounded vaguely gross.
Referring to one's crotch is kind of rude in polite company.
But calling it "body throw" seems too general to be useful in concise
conversation - this is getting to be like "the Artist formerly known as
Prince who prefers to be known as this unpronouncable symbol now but
recently decided it was a hell of a lot easier to just be known as Prince
again so he can do a comeback and sell records to make money" [OK, OK - I
know they aren't usually actual "records" anymore - hardcore vinyl junkies
unite! - but hey - you all certainly know what I meant and that's what
matters]
It seems to me the term "body throw" more accurately encompasses all the
different types - eg: shoulder throws, backcrosses, etc. And calling it
"the body throw formerly known as Alberts but we aren't going to use that
name anymore because...whatever" is kinda awkward.
As for "trick" being upgraded to "move" - that might help to create a more
accurate image in the mind of the non-juggling public - after all -
magicians do tricks, which many people - rightly or wrongly - think of has
having some element of deceit involved. And, no doubt, there are many
great magicians, but there are also many crap tricks anyone can buy in a
store and perform in a matter of minutes.
Juggling tricks are earned the hard way. We ALL know that's true.
Anything that makes people look at juggling as a legitimate activity as
opposed to some clownish crap is welcome by me. Very, very welcome.
Hence, the whole concept of the WJF is, IMHO, a great idea whose time has
come. [Surprisingly, even Michael Moschen thought so when I told him
about it a couple weeks ago]
There is definitely room for a competition that stresses the technical
elements of juggling and sets firm guidelines for them. [tho I will admit
the (necessarily) detailed rules made my eyes blur a bit. Time and
trial-and-error will smooth all that out, just like in any established
athletic competition]
However - this is NOT the death-knell for artistic juggling, as some seem
to think it may be. Not by a long shot. There is more than ample room for
both.
Ultimately -it's all about communication and spreading the joy of
juggling, y'all. Because - juggling kicks ass!! Period.
Sky
hoping to eventually see a signature move named after my homes, Sean
McKinney...
Mike Hughey
> mean a half shower (6x,4x), but then again, maybe it's something else
> entirely.
(6x,4)(4,6x) now instead.
> I have no idea what 74X could mean. Any ideas?
This is gone now - still leaves me wondering what 74X might have been.
jugglingeek
> > I have no idea what 74X could mean. Any ideas?
> This is gone now - still leaves me wondering what 74X might have been.
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
74x could mean exiting (6x,4)* and returning to five ball cascade.
Brian Louisos
> 74x could mean exiting (6x,4)* and returning to five ball cascade.
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
It amuses me to even think about the possibility, that 74x could mean
that. From now on, i'm just going to call {534}, '5' for short.
Everyone will figure out what I mean.
---Brian Louisos
JAG
article <411fa5d0$0$58815$bed6...@news.gradwell.net> dated 15 Aug 2004
18:05:04 GMT
[snip]
>Some jugglers have objected to it being named after a specific individual
>and are looking for a more generic term. But juggling names can be hard
>to shed. I know Michael Moschen is not happy to have the manipulation he
>created commonly known as "contact juggling", a name which I think was
>coined by the guy who wrote that first contact juggling "how to" book,
>James Ernest.
>
>But that's the name we all know and since Michael didn't name it anything
>at the time, I'm pretty sure he'd be hard-pressed to change it now.
>[Sorry, Michael - you know I like you]
Michael did have a name for it, before it was called "contact juggling".
His term was/is "dynamic manipulation", which unfortunately is even more
vague than "body throws".
...JAG
Steve Bennett
I thought about the 'crotch throw' naming problem. Alternatives
might be 'ground pass' or 'low pass'?
Steve
JAG <j...@bogleg.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<8cc5i0pjnc9h763hl...@4ax.com>...
Alan Morgan
Sky534 <s...@juggler.net.nospam> wrote:
>lyric wrote:
>> asking about what mean :Crotch Throws are now called Body Throws
>> thanks
>lyric wrote:
>> asking about what mean :Crotch Throws are now called Body Throws
>> thanks
>
>I believe "body throws", aka crotch throws are the club trick [move?] more
>commonly known [at least here in the States] as Alberts. So-called because
>the move was named after American juggler Albert Lucas who [I assume]
>either created or [more likely] popularized it. The reverse of said move
>is conveniently known as Treblas.
He popularized it. I believe that he was one of the very early jugglers to
do continuous throws of this form (as opposed to just one or two) and people
realized how cool this looked (imagine being the first person to throw
continuous backcrosses).
I'm not in love with the name Albert throws, but Trebla is a *wonderful* name
and it would be a shame to lose it. If Jason wants to call them body throws,
can we still call the reverse throw a Trebla? Please?
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
Sky534
> In article <411fa5d0$0$58815$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> Sky534 <s...@juggler.net.nospam> wrote:
> >
> >I believe "body throws", aka crotch throws are the club trick [move?] more
> >commonly known [at least here in the States] as Alberts. So-called because
> >the move was named after American juggler Albert Lucas who [I assume]
> >either created or [more likely] popularized it. The reverse of said move
> >is conveniently known as Treblas.
>
> He popularized it. I believe that he was one of the very early jugglers to
> do continuous throws of this form (as opposed to just one or two) and people
> realized how cool this looked (imagine being the first person to throw
> continuous backcrosses).
I figured popularized it - after all, seemed like an awful lot of Russian
jugglers were very familiar with this move already.
> I'm not in love with the name Albert throws,
Never bothered me, tho I always opted for just plain "Alberts" - less is
more
> but Trebla is a *wonderful* name and it would be a shame to lose it.
I agree - always thought it was kinda cool how that worked out so neatly
[sez Sky whose name backwards is ykS]
> If Jason wants to call them body throws, can we still call the reverse >
throw a Trebla? Please?
I went so far as to ask Jason about this - his take on it is that he isn't
necessarily looking to reinvent the language. Having it in the rules
where he's trying to achieve some standardization for the masses is one
thing. But jugglers will always have a lingo amongst themselves that may
well be different. So tho we may say "720" in competition, if a juggler
says "double pirouette" instead - it's all good.
Anybody got a good name to replace "ass catch"??? [the trick where you
bend over with your hand reaching between your legs to make a blind catch]
btw: One of the early Carmine guys, Russell [some of you may know him from
his recent work as a playwright working with Jon Held's one man show]
would absolutely NEVER say Alberts or Treblas - he always referred to that
move as "butterflies" and "reverse butterflies". Don't know where that
came from and Russell isn't available at the moment to ask.
Sky
Mutton
> Anybody got a good name to replace "ass catch"??? [the trick where you
> bend over with your hand reaching between your legs to make a blind catch]
You kinda answered your own question. I believe the WJF rules refer to
the ass catch as the blind catch.
- Andrew
Little Paul
>> Anybody got a good name to replace "ass catch"??? [the trick where you
>> bend over with your hand reaching between your legs to make a blind catch]
>
> You kinda answered your own question. I believe the WJF rules refer to
> the ass catch as the blind catch.
"blind catch" is a bit vage. To me that covers any catch where you
can't see your hand.
Starting with the precident set by "Alberts" can we call ass catches[1]
"Jasons"? - The name works on so many levels... ;-)
-Paul
[1] Although what it has to do with donkeys, I have no idea
Aidan
>
> > If Jason wants to call them body throws, can we still call the reverse
>
> throw a Trebla? Please?
>
> I went so far as to ask Jason about this - his take on it is that he isn't
> necessarily looking to reinvent the language.
So what did he have to say about 74*?
Aidan.
Sky534
> Sky534 wrote:
> >
> > I went so far as to ask Jason about this - his take on it is that he isn't
> > necessarily looking to reinvent the language.
>
> So what did he have to say about 74*?
> Aidan.
Didn't ask - but I'll be talking to him again soon, so I will next time.
btw: Was kinda cool - wore the WJF shirt while running errands in and
around the city [NYC] and at least 1/2 dozen strangers asked me about it -
and take my word - folks here don't just strike up random conversations.
One guy started off by saying "is that for real?" I assured him it was and
he was very interested and definitely ready and willing to accept juggling
as a technical challenge and a sport. Not one person mentioned anything
about friggin' clowns....
Sky
Alan Morgan
Sky534 <s...@juggler.net.nospam> wrote:
>Alan Morgan wrote:
>
>> but Trebla is a *wonderful* name and it would be a shame to lose it.
>
>I agree - always thought it was kinda cool how that worked out so neatly
>[sez Sky whose name backwards is ykS]
Pronounced "yikes", I assume?
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
Alan Morgan
Little Paul <l...@juggler.net> wrote:
>>> Anybody got a good name to replace "ass catch"??? [the trick where you
>>> bend over with your hand reaching between your legs to make a blind catch]
[snip]
>Starting with the precident set by "Alberts" can we call ass catches[1]
>"Jasons"? - The name works on so many levels... ;-)
>
>-Paul
>[1] Although what it has to do with donkeys, I have no idea
Calling them Jason catches (would the reverse be a Nosaj?) is a fine idea, but
I think calling them donkey catches is even better. It's wonderfully obscure
to the uninitiated ("You see, the trick was first done by a friend of Magnus
Nicholls named Donald Key") but is still funny for those of us who know them
as "ass catches".
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
Jay Linn
<snip>
Garfs and Frags [1]. Obviously.
[1] The reverse ass catch. Duh.
--
Jay Linn
Habeas corpus, habeas mentis. (Latin canis).
David Cain
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:43:15 +0000, Mutton wrote:
>
> >> Anybody got a good name to replace "ass catch"??? [the trick where you
> >> bend over with your hand reaching between your legs to make a blind catch]
> >
> > You kinda answered your own question. I believe the WJF rules refer to
> > the ass catch as the blind catch.
>
> "blind catch" is a bit vage. To me that covers any catch where you
> can't see your hand.
>
I have video of a different type of "blind catch" on my website,
www.christianjuggler.com
These blind catches are like shoulder throws but never go up over the
shoulder. They go straight up and are then caught blind. The video
shows me doing them with 4 clubs.
David Cain
www.christianjuggler.com
Beinn Muir
> www.christianjuggler.com
>
> These blind catches are like shoulder throws but never go up over the
> shoulder. They go straight up and are then caught blind. The video
> shows me doing them with 4 clubs.
> David Cain
I think these have become known as Lazy throws.
They are very nice =)
Beinn...
jugglingeek
Treblas are throws from behind the back between the legs and up the front.
surely the move known as ass-catches should be called reverse alberts
since they are caught in
the same place as alberts are thrown from.
And the move where you catch a ball with your hand behind your back coming
up between your
legs at the front should be reverse treblas.
Shouldn't lazies be called reverse sholder throws
and the move where you catch the prop in your right hand behind you back
with the hand near
the left hip should be called a reverse backcross
I have no problem with tricks named after jugglers. See also: *Mill's
mess, Rubenstien's revenge,
Jay's jumble, Luke's lobotomy, Dancey's devilment, Norbi's box... etc.
(*don't forget the apostrophies since all these tricks need them.)
Beinn Muir
Yes.
> Treblas are throws from behind the back between the legs and up the front.
Yes.
> surely the move known as ass-catches should be called reverse alberts
> since they are caught in the same place as alberts are thrown from.
I would agree and it is what I have always called them
> And the move where you catch a ball with your hand behind your back coming
> up between your legs at the front should be reverse treblas.
Definitely!
> Shouldn't lazies be called reverse sholder throws
Nope.
A lazy throw is a lazy throw (!) and is performed by throwing and catching
the prop behind the back with the same hand, this can either be a 2, 4, 6
(etc.) and not an odd numbered siteswap. Reverse shoulder throws should be
called reverse shoulder throws. They are thrown behind the back and caught
in front with the same hand.
> and the move where you catch the prop in your right hand behind you back
> with the hand near the left hip should be called a reverse backcross
I would agree with this one.
> I have no problem with tricks named after jugglers.
Neither do I =)
> See also: *Mill's mess, Rubenstien's revenge, Jay's jumble,
> Luke's lobotomy, Dancey's devilment, Norbi's box... etc.
>
> (*don't forget the apostrophies since all these tricks need them.)
Except for the first example where the trick is the invention of Steve Mills
(note the 's' in his name). I don't really wish to start the dreaded
apostrophe argument again [1]... but if you must add an apostrophe to his
trick then please remember to include all the letters in his name =)
Any word on the missing beanbag? Have you looked under the sofa? ;-)
Cheers,
Beinn...
[1] I am currently under the impression that Steve Mills wanted the trick
known as "Mills Mess" and not "Mills' Mess" or "Mills's Mess".
jugglingeek
> > Alberts are throws from the front betweent the legs and over the body.
>
> Yes.
>
> > Treblas are throws from behind the back between the legs and up the front.
>
> Yes.
>
> > surely the move known as ass-catches should be called reverse alberts
> > since they are caught in the same place as alberts are thrown from.
>
> I would agree and it is what I have always called them
>
> > And the move where you catch a ball with your hand behind your back coming
> > up between your legs at the front should be reverse treblas.
>
> Definitely!
>
> > Shouldn't lazies be called reverse sholder throws
>
> Nope.
> A lazy throw is a lazy throw (!) and is performed by throwing and catching
> the prop behind the back with the same hand, this can either be a 2, 4, 6
> (etc.) and not an odd numbered siteswap. Reverse shoulder throws should be
> called reverse shoulder throws. They are thrown behind the back and caught
> in front with the same hand.
I didn't know this is what a lazie was. Learn somthing new every day (and
it's only 8:40)
>
> > and the move where you catch the prop in your right hand behind you back
> > with the hand near the left hip should be called a reverse backcross
>
> I would agree with this one.
>
> > I have no problem with tricks named after jugglers.
>
> Neither do I =)
>
> > See also: *Mill's mess, Rubenstien's revenge, Jay's jumble,
> > Luke's lobotomy, Dancey's devilment, Norbi's box... etc.
> >
> > (*don't forget the apostrophies since all these tricks need them.)
>
> Except for the first example where the trick is the invention of Steve Mills
> (note the 's' in his name). I don't really wish to start the dreaded
> apostrophe argument again [1]... but if you must add an apostrophe to his
> trick then please remember to include all the letters in his name =)
>
> Any word on the missing beanbag? Have you looked under the sofa? ;-)
Although I found the remote control and a pint glass!!!!!! I found no
juggling balls :-(
Nice meeting you at Crawley by the way.
>
> Cheers,
> Beinn...
>
> [1] I am currently under the impression that Steve Mills wanted the trick
> known as "Mills Mess" and not "Mills' Mess" or "Mills's Mess".
I was under the impression he was called steve mill for some reason. Sorry
steve. Mills' mess is
gramaticaly correct since calling it Mills's mess would mean it would be
pronounced millsies
mess.
Beinn Muir
>
> I didn't know this is what a lazie was. Learn somthing new every day (and
> it's only 8:40)
>
They are a reasonably new discovery in club juggling and demonstrate that
there are many "simple" moves that have yet to be discovered / popularised.
> > Any word on the missing beanbag? Have you looked under the sofa? ;-)
>
> Although I found the remote control and a pint glass!!!!!! I found no
> juggling balls :-(
> Nice meeting you at Crawley by the way.
>
It was good to meet you too. It is always cool to put faces to the posts
here on rec.juggling. I had fun juggling and chatting with people from
rec.juggling -- Norbi, jonudry (keep up with the 4 club popcorn patterns!),
LP, Mike, and others.
Cheers,
Beinn...