What is the definition of juggling?
juggling jacko
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Arachnoid
juggling and what isn't is to push that boundary further out, thus
leaving your original definition void.
Michael Moschen's decision to not throw the balls would be an example.
To me it's object manipulation done for the enjoyment of either
manipulator or watchers, without any other purpose.
eg. mr woo doing his football act is juggling, mr woo playing for his
national side where the intent is to score goals is not.
russ
erik_jernqvist
> What is the definition of juggling? any input......
The english word "juggling" seems to stand for a number of diffirent
object manipulation skills such as balancing, diaboling, poi swinging,
ball spinning, devil sticking etc. , while swedish word "jonglering" seems
to mean either tossing and catching a number of objects in your hands, or
keeping a football (truncated icosahedron) aloft with the feet.
Brian Fahs
The Manipulation of more objects than you are utilizing hands.
Therefor:
Football (Soccer) juggling - 1 ball, no hands - Juggling
3 Ball Cascade - 3 balls, 0 hands - Juggilng
Poi - 2 Poi, 2 hands - not juggling
Ballancing - 1 item, 0 hands - Juggling
Ballancing + Poi or Club Swinging - 3 items, 2 hands Juggling etc..
Unicycle - By itself, not juggling.
But what's the point with a definition. If people like to do it, and it
looks cool, whats the point of determining if it is or isn't juggling.
Brian Fahs
Aurora, IL
"juggling jacko" <jacko_th...@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote in message
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Brian Fahs
Brian
"Brian Fahs" <brian.no...@sbcglobal.nospam.net> wrote in message
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Adam
I could think of reasons why someone might want to find the boundary of
what is juggling and what is not besides pushing the boundary further
out. Bringing the boundary further in, for example?
If Moschen's stuff is manipulation done for enjoyment of him or
watchers for no other purpose, are you implying other juggling has a
higher purpose? I'd be interested to know what that is.
Adam
Eccles
> What is the definition of juggling? any input......
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
If anyone has the video from "Games People Play" about the 1988 ( or
something ) IJA festival have a look at the begginning.
I can't remember it off the top of my head, but the announcer attempts to
define a "juggler." Actually quite interesting from ( i assume ) a non
juggler.
It goes something like:
How would you define a juggler? Is it:
a) Someone who keeps a lot of objects in the air at one time.
b)
c)
Well the answer is in fact d) all of the above...
Anyone want to fill in the blanks?
Alan Morgan
juggling jacko <jacko_th...@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote:
>What is the definition of juggling? any input......
I heard this one from Rhys Thomas: Juggling is the act of
doing useless stuff the hard way.
Alan
--
Defendit numerus
Itsik Orr
> I've always heard the technical definition of juggling to be:
> The Manipulation of more objects than you are utilizing hands.
one that holds the least water. If you would have stuck with tossing and
catching objects then that would have been o.k., but choosing the general
word "manipulation" seems to me to be against common sense and your examples
demonstrate this to the utmost.
Just to take a few cases and test them against your definition:
> Poi - 2 Poi, 2 hands - not juggling
Thus the game of tying a single poi to your ankle, spinning it around on the
floor and playing skip as it passes under the other foot is juggling (no
hands, 1 poi), whereas doing a complex poi move involving constant releases
and catches is not.
> Ballancing - 1 item, 0 hands - Juggling
So balancing a teaspoon on each hand simultaneously (a feat so difficult I
have never heard of anyone accomplishing it) is not juggling (2 hands, 2
teaspoons), whereas balancing a long pole (or a short hungarian) on your
chin is.
> Unicycle - By itself, not juggling.
Why? According to your definition, it is a single object being manipulated
by no hands therefore it is juggling. That is to say, unless you are lying
ont he seat and pedal with your hands (a very difficult trick), whence it
instantly becomes non juggling.
I could go on about how according to this definition picking up a pencil
from the floor with your toes is juggling etc. but I think it's clear.
> But what's the point with a definition. If people like to do it, and it
> looks cool, whats the point of determining if it is or isn't juggling.
Now yer talkin'
__________________
Itsik Orr
http://www.juggler.net/orr
http://www.ijc.co.il - upcoming Israeli convention - don't miss out!
Eric Bagai
"Arachnoid" wrote:
> To me it's object manipulation done for the enjoyment of either
> manipulator or watchers, without any other purpose.
A good definition. An inclusive def that carries the popular sense of
juggling is useful. So is an exclusive and limiting definition, but the
tradition "more balls than hands" is very mechanical, and does not consider
the purpose of the behavior.
You could drop the last clause, "without any other purpose," without
significant loss, I think.
> The only possible reason for trying to find the boundary of what is
> juggling and what isn't is to push that boundary further out, thus
> leaving your original definition void.
There are lots of other reasons for boundaries. Use the ones that make
sense to you at the moment. Definitions are not commandments or ethical
constraints, they are tools for setting things in perspective.
=Eric
g...@stevage.com
Surely the correct definition is "the continuous throwing and
catching of objects such that at least one object is in the air at any
moment in time". Poi isn't juggling. Bouncing a soccer ball on your
head isn't juggling. Riding a unicycle isn't juggling. It doesn't
diminish in the slightest any of those activities, they're just not
juggling.
Interestingly a 2 ball shower may or may not be juggling...
Steve
Rory Tatum
g...@stevage.com wrote:
> Hi,
> Surely the correct definition is "the continuous throwing and
> catching of objects such that at least one object is in the air at
any
> moment in time". Poi isn't juggling. Bouncing a soccer ball on your
> head isn't juggling. Riding a unicycle isn't juggling. It doesn't
> diminish in the slightest any of those activities, they're just not
> juggling.
>
> Interestingly a 2 ball shower may or may not be juggling...
>
> Steve
I agree with this statement. I think the definition of juggling is
limited to "the continuous throwing and catching of objects such that
at least one object is in the air at any moment in time." Why should
other things such as diabolo or poi be included in a definition of
juggling? Just because jugglers are commonly attracted to do such
activities does not mean that these things are juggling.
Arachnoid
spanner, which is an act of manipulation and if you enjoy working on
cars for instance is done for your enjoyment. It's not as clear as i
meant it to be.
Arachnoid
russ
Justin Sane
Juggling is the execution of deliberate actions that prevent an unstable
system from becoming totally unstable for a specified duration.
Deliberate action means that lucky bounces alone don’t constitute juggling.
An unstable system could be a collection of object(s) in mid-air, or a
pole balanced on a chin, or a soccer mom with a career.
Totally unstable means that the juggler is no longer able to return the
system to its desired state. This could be a drop of an object, a
gathering of objects, or the soccer mom quitting her job.
A specified duration could be 10 catches for 5 objects, 1 minute for a
chin balance, or until the kids leave home for the soccer mom.
Itsik Orr
> Juggling is the execution of deliberate actions that prevent an unstable
> system from becoming totally unstable for a specified duration.
I think people usually connotate juggling with some kind of intensivity, so
perhaps the degree of instability of the system should also be taken into
account. After all, strictly speaking all systems are unstable on some
timescale (from the universe to the tiniest quark), therefore by your
definition EVERY human action can be interpreted as juggling. Is the guy
manning the pressure gauge at the power plant, accasionally (say, once a
week) increasing pressure when it's too low or the reverse, he's juggling?
And if he presses the button once a year only if something goes wrong? And
when he eats to prevent his body from becoming starved and dead, is he not
(strictly speaking) also "execting a deliberate action that prevent an
unstable system from becoming totally unstable for a specified duration".
Ahh, definitions, a tricky ground to tread.
Drew522
> What is the definition of juggling? any input......
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
And a related question:
What is the definition of Manipulation? any input......
I like the swedish definition of juggling that erik described below.
>...swedish word "jonglering" seems
>to mean either tossing and catching a number of objects in your hands, or
>keeping a football ... aloft with the feet.
and that juggling is one of many types of manipulation including diabolo,
contact, Poi, coin and pen tricks, etc etc
Guy G
So presumably to push the boundary of juggling, you could take it to a
level where it becomes object manipulation done for the enjoyment of
nobody, without any other purpose?
I'm not criticising - I think that your definition is a good one, and
your original statement has some validity. But when you put them
together in the right way you end up ruining juggling.
Guy
Justin Sane
which covers the things you mention.
We can limit this to a collection of one or more physical objects and
hopefully come up with a definition that is consistent with both
perspectives.
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Jimbren1
Reminds me of those videos submitted here on rec.juggling showing patterns done
on a snooker table. It could be called 2 dimensional juggling as apposed to 3
dimensional juggling.
In an earlier post on this subject someone asked if one of the objects we are
juggling/manipulating is the Earth beneath our feet. Too broad of a definition
allows us to claim this one more object to our individual juggling records. Of
course, all earthlings are equal in this claim, except those in free-fall, in
spaceships, or on interplanetary holiday.
The below definition is a favorite of mine, yet it is very general.
Pursuing the manipulation that determines the choreography of objects in
space..
The objects could have strings attached to them and who's to say what 'space'
is, but it works for me.
Jim
Steve Bennett
If a "soccer mom" claimed to be a juggler, you'd laugh. If a pole
balancer did, you might disagree, but it's not ridiculous.
The trouble in this definition business seems to be that some people
are trying to define juggling in a way that closely matches most
people's understanding of the word, in a lay sense - eg, throwing
objects in the air and catching them. Other people are trying to
produce a broad definition which also covers stuff like diabolo, poi,
club swinging, pole balancing, kicking soccer balls etc. Perhaps the
first definition answers the question of "What distinguishes juggling
from other circus arts", whereas the second is more "what would I
expect to see at a juggling convention?"
Both valid questions perhaps...
Steve