Incest Humor (Re: <humorless & Subject:less thread>)
Lewis McCarthy
Owen Lynn> Including incest.
Wednesday Addams (wad...@netcom.com)> Hardly.
Lewis McCarthy> How so ?
Wednesday Addams> Read alt.sexual.abuse.recovery sometime, and pay careful
Wednesday Addams> attention to the stories of the past.
Perhaps you could summarize in a few sentences how these
will demonstrate that incest is not relative, whatever
you think that means.
Wednesday Addams> I have made this point before and I will several times
Wednesday Addams> again, if I need to:
Wednesday Addams> If abuse in any of its forms were funny,
Wednesday Addams> it wouldn't destroy the lives it does.
I find this staggeringly difficult to believe, so I would
be very interested in hearing you make it again.
Lewis McCarthy> ### someone you know is a victim of incest ###
Wednesday Addams> My point exactly. And we're survivors.
I fail to see how this says anything about incest being
relative. {Mostly, I'd love to hear how you're able to
parse this claim sufficiently well to beable to make a
judgment about it, one way or the other. I can't.}
Similarly, I don't follow survivor(x) => no_sense_of_humor(x).
-Lewis
"like I said I know religions so explain this shit man!" -Donald K Harrison
Cheryl Saley
>I.T.S.>"EVERYTHING is relative...even you."
>Owen Lynn> Including incest.
>Wednesday Addams (wad...@netcom.com)> Hardly.
>Lewis McCarthy> How so ?
>Wednesday Addams> Read alt.sexual.abuse.recovery sometime, and pay careful
>Wednesday Addams> attention to the stories of the past.
>
>Perhaps you could summarize in a few sentences how these
>will demonstrate that incest is not relative, whatever
>you think that means.
The way I understood it, Wednesday was refering to joking about incest
as inappropriate. I agree with her. There are too many lives destroyed
by incest, sexual abuse, physical abuse, and emotional abuse. To joke
about it trivalizes the issue and invalidates the impact and severity of
the experiences of many.
I repeat Wednesday's invitation to read alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.
>Wednesday Addams> I have made this point before and I will several times
>Wednesday Addams> again, if I need to:
>Wednesday Addams> If abuse in any of its forms were funny,
>Wednesday Addams> it wouldn't destroy the lives it does.
>
>I find this staggeringly difficult to believe, so I would
>be very interested in hearing you make it again.
Are you saying that you don't believe that abuse destroys the lives of
many???
Item...I have a mother who is currently in the locked ward of a hospital
for depression and suicidal ideation (geesh...their words...not mine)
which has digressed to suicide attempts.
Her attempts and history have had an impact on the life of my father
my brothers, and myself....Her abuse has directly effected ont only
her life but those of the family as well.
Item...As a result of abuse which I suffered as a child my patterns of
relating to others has been markedly changed. This has resluted
in a deficiency in social skills. I have been spending much of
my adult life learning things which I should have had the opportunity
to learn as a child and adolesent(sp).
This has resulted in a pattern of relating which, for me is
counterproductive and oftentimes has lead to much isolation.
Newsflash...Isolation can be very detrimental to one's mental health.
>Lewis McCarthy> ### someone you know is a victim of incest ###
>Wednesday Addams> My point exactly. And we're survivors.
>
>I fail to see how this says anything about incest being
>relative. {Mostly, I'd love to hear how you're able to
>parse this claim sufficiently well to beable to make a
>judgment about it, one way or the other. I can't.}
>Similarly, I don't follow survivor(x) => no_sense_of_humor(x).
Again...I don't believe that Wednesday was refering to survivors as having
no sense of humor...I felt that she was making the point that it was not
a joking matter.
>-Lewis
>
May you find what you are looking for.
Cheri
74650...@compuserve.com sa...@tellabs.com
*******************************************************************************
When you feel like you are in a dark tunnel, look for the light inside.
Let it be your guide.
Lewis McCarthy
Owen Lynn> Including incest.
Wednesday Addams> Hardly.
Lewis McCarthy> How so ?
Cheryl Saley> The way I understood it, Wednesday was refering to joking
Cheryl Saley> about incest as inappropriate. I agree with her.
YMMV. I disagree with both of you. Wednesday seemed to me to be asserting it
as fact rather than opinion, which is the reason I questioned it.
Cheryl Saley> There are too many lives destroyed by incest, sexual abuse,
Cheryl Saley> physical abuse, and emotional abuse.
Too many for what ? I still don't see the relevance of this to what
anyone wants to say.
BTW, do you think Doonesbury's Mr. Butts cartoons are
inappropriate because they deal with tobacco use in a humorous way ? I'm
extremely interested in reading your answer to this one.
Cheryl Saley> To joke about it trivalizes the issue
IYHO. If you don't think it's trivial, then don't think it's trivial. How
hard can that be ? I don't think incest is a trivial issue, and I see no
problem with joking about it. Are you afraid that I might change someone's
mind about the triviality of incest ? "Knowledge is dangerous."
Cheryl Saley> and invalidates the impact and severity of the experiences
Cheryl Saley> of many.
I don't have the faintest idea what you mean by this. The experiences of
other people are not like lottery tickets, capable of being stamped
"INVALID" by someone. If someone changes their mind about an experience
s/he's had because of something said by someone else, that's her/is
business. Are you saying it's wrong for me to stimulate someone to think
about something in a different way ?
Cheryl Saley> I repeat Wednesday's invitation to read
Cheryl Saley> alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.
I repeat my invitation for someone to attempt to actually back up some of
these claims, rather than saying "I can't argue for this, but I know
someone who can."
Wednesday Addams> If abuse in any of its forms were funny,
Wednesday Addams> it wouldn't destroy the lives it does.
Lewis McCarthy> I find this staggeringly difficult to believe, so I would
Lewis McCarthy> be very interested in hearing you make [the point] again.
Cheryl Saley> Are you saying that you don't believe that abuse destroys
Cheryl Saley> the lives of many???
Stop for a moment, count to ten, and re-read what Wednesday wrote and what
I wrote. She said that if abuse were funny, it wouldn't destroy lives. I
said I didn't believe that. Conclusion: "Lewis doesn't
believe that funny(abuse) => non-destructive(abuse)"
Again, I think abuse can be funny, just like anything else can,
and yet it certainly does destroy lives. In any event,
I can't fathom a connection between the humorousness of a phenomenon and
its destructiveness.
[...]
Cheryl Saley> Newsflash...
Cheryl Saley> Isolation can be very detrimental to one's mental health.
True. It can also be very beneficial sometimes.
Cheryl Saley> May you find what you are looking for.
Thank you, though I doubt I will. I hope you find what you seek. Peace :)
-Lewis
================================
"Ja, ja. Waldheim for President" -Mark Line [in soc.culture.austria]
brandon milling
howdy. HUMOR is merely a way a of relieving tension, no matter how
"serious" the subject. If you can't joke about incest or war or so
many other "hard" topics, then there woukld be very few jokes...
Bill Evans
: howdy. HUMOR is merely a way a of relieving tension
Excellent definition. I always _thought_ masturbation was humorous.
-- Captain Nitpick
geode
I'm sorry. I understand the idea behind what you are saying. It's
called black humor. And it always ends up hurting someone. The survivor,
the soldier, the person of a different race or religion or nationality.
Whatever. I think it's one thing for survivors (etc.) to engage in a
little morbid humor about their own history at times when things have
got them totally beaten down. I've done it myself. (Only with another
survivor who is also a close friend and understands my sense of humor...
which, in this case was a cover for my pain.)
I just don't think I care that there would be very few jokes in the
world if it means we can stop having jokes at the expense of whole
groups of people. I'll just find other things to laugh at. Like the
chameleon today crawling on my windowsill, chasing a big fat glossy
black fly, never suspecting that the fly was between the window and the
screen, while the chameleon was outside on the sill. Now *that* was
funny. Hmmmmmm...on the other hand, I doubt that either the fly or the
chameleon was lauging about it. See what I mean? Humor at someone
else's expense. (Well, the fly *might* have been laughing to see that
chameleon making a fool of itself.) Anyway, I've had a pretty tense
few days, and this little scene sure did ease *my* tension for a little
while.
However, I think that if anyone can see anything funny about child abuse,
maybe they should spend a little time looking at the childhood pictures
of survivors. I'm still haunted by a school picture of a survivor
friend that I saw months ago....his sad, haunted face...his empty
eyes...a little boy who clearly no longer saw the world through a
child's eyes. I went home and cried about it after I saw it. I can
still be moved to tears thinking of that picture, knowing my friend
today and how much he's struggled through...like all of us. And how
little he deserved to have to go through the horror....like all of us.
Laugh if you want. If that helps ease your tension. For me, I'll always
feel sorrow for all of us who were not allowed to be children and had
to live in fear in our own homes and schools and churches. I'm not
laughing.
Bill Evans
: I'm sorry. I understand the idea behind what you are saying. It's
: called black humor.
Let's make _everybody_ happy. Let's form another newsgroup:
rec.white.humor
-- Captain Nitpick
Arthur Hlavaty
That's NOT funny.
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
"The Mason's face is ajar."--Firesign Theater
Robert A.Buckley
>
>Excellent definition. I always _thought_ masturbation was humorous.
>
>-- Captain Nitpick
Mebbee you ain' DOOin' it right, then, Cap'n.
Like Woody Allen sez:
Sex doesn't have to be dirty;
Only if you're doing it right...
Bob "I wouldn't know, myself" Buckley
bb...@itsa.ucsf.edu
john baez
>However, I think that if anyone can see anything funny about child abuse,
>maybe they should spend a little time looking at the childhood pictures
>of survivors.
There is something funny about everything, even the most horrible,
awful, evil things --- or the most noble, magnificent, profound things.
It is often inappropriate to enjoy the humor in awful things, because
doing so can serve as an excuse, a way to avoid trying to solve problems
that need to be solved. However, it I think it is wrong to deny the
fact that the world can be seen as tragedy *or* farce --- in addition to
many other ways.
John C Mumaw
--
John C. Mumaw jmu...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (614)292-6314
Ohio State University Libraries Columbus, Ohio
R Bryner
Sean M. Gallagher
>Warning, kibologists at work.
I think maybe we need some kind of generic internationally recognized
symbol for that. How about a guy sitting in his underwear typing on
a computer?
--
Sean Gallagher | "It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were
gal...@rpi.edu | striking thirteen." -- George Orwell, 1984
Lawrence Allen
: Warning, kibologists at work.
WHAT!?
Kibologist? Here?
Oh dear!
TPAT...@esrin.bitnet
"....I always _thought_ masturbation was humorous."
Hmm....so, you have something down there that is laughable then :)
Michael Nist
Kick his sister under the chin.
Bill Evans
TPAT...@ESRIN.BITNET made the following noteworthy contribution
to the highly esteemed collected works of rec.humor:
: Captain Nitpick wrote:
: "....I always _thought_ masturbation was humorous."
: Hmm....so, you have something down there that is laughable then :)
Yes. I have very funny hands.
-- Captain Nitpick