B.I.O. F.R.E.A.K.S
Victor Harris
Does anyone know what the deal is with BIO FREAKS?
The game has been on test for quite a while and it doesn't seem to
progress and further than that! The last time MIDWAY tested a game
forever was something called......
No, don't tell me...
NO NO! I know this one.
Wargods! Yes, I think Midway strikes again! Who wants to give me
odds that this game NEVER sees the light of day in the arcades.
WarGods, Vicious Circle, Mace, and now Bio Freaks. Shame.
Nick Muntean
Victor Harris wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what the deal is with BIO FREAKS?
>
> The game has been on test for quite a while and it doesn't seem to
> progress and further than that! The last time MIDWAY tested a game
> forever was something called......
>
> No, don't tell me...
>
> NO NO! I know this one.
>
> Wargods!
I think MK4 ranks in there too. Let's see, how long has it been out
and still not finished?
Yes, I think Midway strikes again! Who wants to give me
> odds that this game NEVER sees the light of day in the arcades.
>
> WarGods, Vicious Circle, Mace, and now Bio Freaks. Shame.
Don't forget Judge Dredd and WWF. Anyone want to give me odds that
Midway is losing it? Do they actually think they can compete with the
likes of Capcom, Sega, and Namco?
Remove * to reply by email
Victor Harris
In article <68ernf$r42$1...@hirame.wwa.com>, N-Muntean@*NEIU.edu says...
> Victor Harris wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know what the deal is with BIO FREAKS?
> >
> > The game has been on test for quite a while and it doesn't seem to
> > progress and further than that! The last time MIDWAY tested a game
> > forever was something called......
> >
> > No, don't tell me...
> >
> > NO NO! I know this one.
> >
> > Wargods!
>
> I think MK4 ranks in there too. Let's see, how long has it been out
> and still not finished?
Yea, good point! However, it seems like there are other factors at work
with the MK games. Since Midway would be DEAD without MK, they seem to
milk it for everything its got. Although I think they're idiots for
pushing the MK team to release every game since MK2 in an incomplete
form just to make their up front money. Lets hope Crusin World and
NFL Blitz releive some of the burden so Midway stops being so GOD
DAMN MK greedy.
Derryl D. DePriest
Just curious as to why you put Mace in with this group of games,
since it was neither a Midway game, nor was it unreleased.
Derryl
___
|\__\___ Derryl D. DePriest ddd(nospam)@agames.com
|| |\__\___ Atari Games Corporation 25 unbelieveable years
|| D|| |\__\ To email, remove "(nospam)" from my .sig address.
\|__|| D|| \
\|__|| D | Check out the Atari Games web page at
\|__/ http://www.atarigames.com!
Victor Harris (qw...@concentric.net) wrote:
: Does anyone know what the deal is with BIO FREAKS?
: The game has been on test for quite a while and it doesn't seem to
: progress and further than that! The last time MIDWAY tested a game
: forever was something called......
: No, don't tell me...
: NO NO! I know this one.
: Wargods! Yes, I think Midway strikes again! Who wants to give me
Nick Muntean
So Atari made it. And what kind of release? Like 50 arcades at the
most had them. Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
that California Speed, that sucks too. Does Eugene Jarvis know you
swipped Crusin' and spruced up the graphics only?
Remove * to reply by email
Derryl D. DePriest
Nick Muntean (N-Muntean@*NEIU.edu) wrote:
: So Atari made it. And what kind of release? Like 50 arcades at the
: most had them.
We released it in two configurations, both dedicated and kit. I
can't give you a release number, but we wouldn't generally release
a game unless we could sell a couple thousand at the
minimum.
: Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
: Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
: that California Speed, that sucks too.
We tried some new things with Mace, as the design team did with Biofreaks.
They may not be to your taste, but Mace is still doing well at many arcades,
and was a worthy investment for the operators who purchased them,
especially the kit form. It is not as strong as Tekken or Street Fighter,
but it doesn't suck.
Only one, maybe two games released each year
are "mega-hits" that sell units in the tens of thousands - people don't
realize that one of the toughest jobs around must be designing hit arcade
games. Not to mention that in order to rejuvinate the industry
from the rut we've been stuck in, we've got to try some new things.
Sorry for trying to diversify.
: Does Eugene Jarvis know you
: swipped Crusin' and spruced up the graphics only?
We didn't "swip" (sic) Cruis'n. Speed is built around a real
driving engine, stepped down from say, Rush, to make the game more
accessible to the majority of players. Again, not to your taste, but
it suits players just fine, judging by the income. By the way, did you
whine, when Cruis'n debuted, that it had a similar feeling to Outrunners?
Nick Muntean
Derryl D. DePriest wrote:
>
>
> We released it in two configurations, both dedicated and kit. I
> can't give you a release number, but we wouldn't generally release
> a game unless we could sell a couple thousand at the
> minimum.
Yes, I know about kits and dedicated. But strange, for the thousands
you say you sold, I can find only ONE in the Chicago and surrounding
suburbs.
>
> : Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
> : Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
> : that California Speed, that sucks too.
>
> We tried some new things with Mace, as the design team did with Biofreaks.
> They may not be to your taste, but Mace is still doing well at many arcades,
> and was a worthy investment for the operators who purchased them,
> especially the kit form. It is not as strong as Tekken or Street Fighter,
> but it doesn't suck.
If the game doesn't suck, then why aren't they in more arcades? Why
aren't people talking about the game? There was little if any intrest
in Mace.
>
> Only one, maybe two games released each year
> are "mega-hits" that sell units in the tens of thousands - people don't
> realize that one of the toughest jobs around must be designing hit arcade
> games. Not to mention that in order to rejuvinate the industry
> from the rut we've been stuck in, we've got to try some new things.
> Sorry for trying to diversify.
Don't be sorry, but putting out two fighting games in a market that is
over-saturated in fighting games is divirsity? The industry is in a rut
becuase of companies like Midway and Capcom that rehash the same game
thirty times over.
>
> : Does Eugene Jarvis know you
> : swipped Crusin' and spruced up the graphics only?
>
> We didn't "swip" (sic) Cruis'n. Speed is built around a real
> driving engine, stepped down from say, Rush, to make the game more
> accessible to the majority of players. Again, not to your taste, but
> it suits players just fine, judging by the income. By the way, did you
> whine, when Cruis'n debuted, that it had a similar feeling to Outrunners?
Of course not, Cruis'n was a better game than outrunners and there is a
difference between the two. But when people at the arcade I go to play
speed all they say is that its Cruis'n with better graphics. Sure it
suits players just fine, look how good Cruis'n did. I still wonder what
Eugene thinks.
Don't get me wrong, I had a 2600, who didn't? And I still feel good
that part of the Atari legacy lives on. But if Atari and yourself
really want to diversify the arcade market, then why put out racing
games and fighting games, other than the fact that at this time in the
industry they are more likely to be profitable to Atari. Diversity
comes through taking chances, a figting and racing game are pretty safe
genres. So why not take some chances on other genres. Why not try to
revive a genere that is dead with some fresh ideas and some of the
cutting edge technology you have at your disposal. Or perhapes a new
genre not tried by other companies. Take chances and if the game is new
and good, the gamers will beat a path to your door.
Derryl D. DePriest
: Don't get me wrong, I had a 2600, who didn't? And I still feel good
: that part of the Atari legacy lives on. But if Atari and yourself
: really want to diversify the arcade market, then why put out racing
: games and fighting games, other than the fact that at this time in the
: industry they are more likely to be profitable to Atari. Diversity
: comes through taking chances, a figting and racing game are pretty safe
: genres. So why not take some chances on other genres. Why not try to
: revive a genere that is dead with some fresh ideas and some of the
: cutting edge technology you have at your disposal. Or perhapes a new
: genre not tried by other companies. Take chances and if the game is new
: and good, the gamers will beat a path to your door.
You apparently haven't. We've tried several very "different" types of
games over the past several years, which haven't been released because
of poor earnings. By your definition, they must have sucked, since
they aren't in every arcade in the nation. Actually, they were fun,
polished games that did not capture the imagination of enough
game players. Success, in the arcade business, is a sliding scale,
not a black and white absolute according to your definition. What do you
think of Area 51? I'm sure you think it sucks, but it has sold more units
in the past couple years than any product except Cruis'n. Gamers don't
like it - it's too simple. Yet the public, the everyday Joes that
don't know or care that you can interrupt special move X with chain
combo Y, loved the game and ate it up.
nospam Jim Karczewski
>Of course not, Cruis'n was a better game than outrunners and there is a
>difference between the two. But when people at the arcade I go to play
>speed all they say is that its Cruis'n with better graphics. Sure it
>suits players just fine, look how good Cruis'n did. I still wonder what
>Eugene thinks.
From what I heard of Eugene Talking about it.. He thought there were
alot of new, and good ideas in the game.. He didn't complain that it
looked/played like cruisin'.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<> Jim Karczewski, Engineer <>
<> Midway Games, Inc. <>
<> jim(nospam)@technologist.com <>
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Darien Allen
And the holy hosts all joined in as qw...@concentric.net (Victor
Harris) gifted us with these words:
>Does anyone know what the deal is with BIO FREAKS?
>
> The game has been on test for quite a while and it doesn't seem to
> progress and further than that! The last time MIDWAY tested a game
> forever was something called......
>
> No, don't tell me...
>
> NO NO! I know this one.
>
> Wargods! Yes, I think Midway strikes again! Who wants to give me
> odds that this game NEVER sees the light of day in the arcades.
>
> WarGods, Vicious Circle, Mace, and now Bio Freaks. Shame.
I don't know anything about the game...but according to the IGN
websites... www.n64.com and www.psmonline.com This game is going
straight to the home machines now...no arcade run.
------
"That response was kinda vague could you be more direct?"
"Ok, you're an idiot, is that direct enough for ya?"
DRA - God of Reconciliation - "Deal with it"
Remove that NoSPAM to reply
ICQ #2927081 - Get harassed in realtime!
Nick Muntean
Derryl D. DePriest wrote:
>
> You apparently haven't. We've tried several very "different" types of
> games over the past several years, which haven't been released because
> of poor earnings.
Well if they haven't been released then most gamers probably do not know
about your "different" types of games. Living in Chicago I have had a
chance to play various Atari games ever since Midway bought you. Freeze
was good, not as fun as say Puzzle Fighter but good and it did fairly
well at the arcade it was testing at. We had Mace also but most of the
time it sat there never being played and the same for BioFreaks, which
now according to N64.com is coming straight to N64 and PSX with no
arcade release. Basically if these "different" games never got
released, then why mention them? If me and other gamers out there can't
play them or have not played them they are about as good as vaporware.
By your definition, they must have sucked, since
> they aren't in every arcade in the nation. Actually, they were fun,
> polished games that did not capture the imagination of enough
> game players.
Can you name them please, I might have played them.
Success, in the arcade business, is a sliding scale,
> not a black and white absolute according to your definition.
Well it all depends what your definition of success is. Is it the
amount of dedicated and kits you sold. Maintaining a consistant monthly
high selling game. Or simply are gamers playing the hell out of the
game.
What do you
> think of Area 51? I'm sure you think it sucks,
I liked it and I can tell you that I easily pumped well of fifty dollars
into it. So in short no I don't think the game sucked.
but it has sold more units
> in the past couple years than any product except Cruis'n.
I know about that. But do you consider Area 51 a success. I do. Not
just becuase it sold like crazy but becuase gamers played the hell out
of the game.
Gamers don't
> like it - it's too simple.
I'm a gamer and I liked it. Besides, an arcade game is ment to be
simple so that EVERYONE can get into it. This I believe is why Tekken
is more popular than say Virtua Fighter
Yet the public, the everyday Joes that
> don't know or care that you can interrupt special move X with chain
> combo Y, loved the game and ate it up.
Well a lot of people don't care about fighting games anymore. There are
too many out there. The genre is over-saturated. But you say you and
Atari are trying to get the arcade industry out of a rut by making more
"diverse" games. Mace and Bio Freaks are not exactly diverse are they,
atleast not genre wise.
You didn't answer my question if putting out two fighting games into a
market that is saturated with fighting games is "diversity". If you and
Atari truly want to give us gamers diversity, then try something other
than fighting and racing games. These two are probably the most over
done genres today.
As I stated earlier "diversity" comes through taking chances, which as
far as I can tell from Atari's recent games that are/were on test at my
arcade, Atari has yet to do. So far Atari has played it safe with two
fighters, a few racers, Rush kicked ass by the way so thumbs up on that
one, a very good puzzle game, and two gun games. Granted that hit
arcade games are hard to make, but can't you and Atari do something else
than racers and fighters?
Arcades need NEW GENRES of games. The fighting and racing ones won't
live forever. I don't see why Atari can't be the forerunner of a new
genre, do you? As I said take chances on new types of games and if they
are good, fun to play, high replay value, and cheap to arcade owners,
then the gamers will beat a path to your door. Or you and Atari can
continue to play it safe and churn out more fighters and racers. It's
up to you my friend. I know I'll have my tokens waiting.
remove * to reply by email
Nick Muntean
Derryl D. DePriest wrote:
By your definition, they must have sucked, since
> they aren't in every arcade in the nation.
MK4 is in a lot of arcades, but I think the game stinks and so do other
people. I mean has the MK series really progressed much since part 2?
So do I fully believe that a game has to be in every arcade to be good?
No. But the ones that ARE largely considered to be GOOD just happen to
be in almost all the arcades in the nation.
As I have said before and will continue to say Mr. DePriest, diversity
comes through taking chances. So far as I can tell from the games that
Atari has put out that were put on test at arcades Atari has yet to do
this. But when you do I'll be there tokens in hand. If it is good,
then expect to reap a lot of my income. If it sucks then expect me to
say that but if it was an attempt at something new or diverse expect an
"atleast they tried something new and diverse" from me.
Ultimately I really have no power in what you or Atari develop. If you
feel that putting out more fighters or racers is diversifying, then that
is what you feel and a lowly gamer like me can't change that. Like I
said Mr. DePriest, I am still waiting for your "diverse" game to come
out.
Derryl D. DePriest
You only see the games that have made it to the market, which, concidentally,
have been in the most established genres. There aren't enough players out
there to try new game genres. I hope that changes, because we have a raft of
new, different product currently in development.
Nick Muntean (N-Muntean@*NEIU.edu) wrote:
: Derryl D. DePriest wrote:
: >
: > You apparently haven't. We've tried several very "different" types of
: > games over the past several years, which haven't been released because
: > of poor earnings.
: Well if they haven't been released then most gamers probably do not know
: about your "different" types of games. Living in Chicago I have had a
: chance to play various Atari games ever since Midway bought you. Freeze
: was good, not as fun as say Puzzle Fighter but good and it did fairly
: well at the arcade it was testing at. We had Mace also but most of the
: time it sat there never being played and the same for BioFreaks, which
: now according to N64.com is coming straight to N64 and PSX with no
: arcade release. Basically if these "different" games never got
: released, then why mention them? If me and other gamers out there can't
: play them or have not played them they are about as good as vaporware.
: By your definition, they must have sucked, since
: > they aren't in every arcade in the nation. Actually, they were fun,
: far as I can tell from Atari's recent games that are/were on test at my
: arcade, Atari has yet to do. So far Atari has played it safe with two
: fighters, a few racers, Rush kicked ass by the way so thumbs up on that
: one, a very good puzzle game, and two gun games. Granted that hit
: arcade games are hard to make, but can't you and Atari do something else
: than racers and fighters?
: Arcades need NEW GENRES of games. The fighting and racing ones won't
: live forever. I don't see why Atari can't be the forerunner of a new
: genre, do you? As I said take chances on new types of games and if they
: are good, fun to play, high replay value, and cheap to arcade owners,
: then the gamers will beat a path to your door. Or you and Atari can
: continue to play it safe and churn out more fighters and racers. It's
: up to you my friend. I know I'll have my tokens waiting.
: remove * to reply by email
Nick Muntean
Derryl D. DePriest wrote:
>
> You only see the games that have made it to the market, which, concidentally,
> have been in the most established genres. There aren't enough players out
> there to try new game genres. I hope that changes, because we have a raft of
> new, different product currently in development.
I have played a few Atari games that never made it to market, or atleast
I believe have never made it to market. But hey, atleast we both can
agree that there needs to be changes in genres to help the arcade
industry. :)
XGAMEROOMX
I liked all of em.
HEY as you get into this great discussion between Player and Manufacturer, you
forgot someone!
The OPERATOR
Bradley Poe
Hi,
Yeah, maybe the operators matter...or used to. Thing is, oper-
ators matter less and less in this day and age when most arcades
are owned by big chains and manufacturers that essentially _dictate_
what games are going to be there...locally (Champaign, IL, USA)
this was what drove the Space Port out of business. Namco didn't
_want_ that arcade to succeed anymore, so they drove it under.
And even the independents usually _lease_ more games than what
they own. That means that if a game isn't going to turn in a high
ermac right off, it won't be made available for lease. People
have to decide if the cost of the game is going to be made up
by the volume of people playing the game. This is a big reason,
in combination with the over-bearing hand of the almighty ones,
Inc., why arcade games can't innovate half as much as home games.
Console or PC or whatever...in the home market, you can have a
game with a cult following and not take serious losses just from
its existence draining resources (spare parts, space, electricity).
At home you can still follow up a decent, middle of the road
game with a killer sequel. But if Street Fighter were released
now, there would have been no hope for a sequel. The market in
the arcades is too tight, too cutthroat for that. Case in point:
Fighting Vipers.
In other words, I really believe the arcade part of video gaming
will have to crash and burn again in order for new ideas to have
a chance.
Sincerely,
Brad Poe
--
The road to apocalypse is littered with all manner of compelling
signs that at bottom all say the same thing: close your eyes.
Ralph Barbagallo
Everyone's at fault. First of all, the manufacturers get a lot
of the blame--and rightfully so. But they're not the whole problem.
Personally, I thought MACE was crap--of the highest order. Technically,
graphically, and content-wise...crap. But that's not to say Atari Games is
a bad company. I really liked Area 51, and I think the Rush series is pretty
good. Maximum Force, I can do without. I dunno how similar Atari Games is
to the old days, but Atari Games has over the years released the most
creative games in arcades today. Just look at stuff like Space Lords,
Rampart, etc. Granted, that was in the pre-Midway acquisition era.
I've talked to people at coin-op manufacturers before, and they
just don't get it. For instance, just look at Midway's blaming of the
Internet for the failure of their games. I've got an unpublished article
about the arcade game industry I did a year or so ago where one representative
tried to say that War Gods was killed by the Internet spreading all the
'secrets' so nobody wanted to play anymore. If that's not denial, I don't
know what is.
Operators are getting the shaft. First of all, games cost too
much money. Midway/Atari is great about this. They use low-cost hardware
(3Dfx, KoJag) that everyone can afford. Operators take a huge risk on
stuff like VF3 and SuperGT where machines can cost $15,000 and more. Even
if they lease, I imagine it's a pretty hefty price. And not only that,
but the home release appears so shortly after the coin-op that there's
no time to generate revenue. Basically it seems manufacturers are using
Operators as source of cheap advertising. They sell a game to an operator,
he promotes it by having it in his location, then they release it 6 months
or less on a home system.
Operators are often very stupid. You know what I mean...most don't
know how to promote at all. Tournaments, advertising, specials, getting
even inexpensive upgrades and new versions to machines, and simply keeping
everything in working order are rare occurences in most arcades. I think
a lot of arcades go under because most operators aren't very shrewd
businessmen.
The quality of games may be on the rise, but variety sure isn't.
I mean, I like fighting games and all...but that's ALL that's out there.
Now, because of the dearth of other genres, the players that used to go to
arcades to play other sorts of games don't freqeuent arcades anymore. So even
if an operator took a risk and bought some nifty shooter or action/adventure
title, nobody's there to play it. The audience has been driven out.
But, I think it's funny to say Atari's promoting diversity by
releasing clone 3D fighters. I mean, a few issues of Next Generation ago,
some head of development at Atari or something was saying that nobody plays
fighting games (specifically MACE) because they're all the same now. His
answer? The Juko Project--which by description is a rip off of traditional
Japanese fighting games complete with rip off characters and various other
elements lifted from Tekken & co.
--
*Ralph Barbagallo http://www.cs.uml.edu/~rbarbaga *rbar...@cs.uml.edu*
"I have known many game designers; they encompass a broad range of
personalities. Yet all these disparate people share one common trait;
they all sport towering egos."--Chris Crawford, 1987.
Nick Muntean
Ralph Barbagallo wrote:
>
> Everyone's at fault. First of all, the manufacturers get a lot
> of the blame--and rightfully so. But they're not the whole problem.
> Personally, I thought MACE was crap--of the highest order. Technically,
> graphically, and content-wise...crap.
Exactly, and that is why the game failed, it was good to look at but
crap none the less. Much like MK4, good to look at but crap none the
less. I mean honestly, Boon and his cheering squad have been promising
huge gameplay break throughs since MK2, has this happened? NO, it
hasn't. If MK4 flops or doesn't perform to what is expected, which
according to reports it is doing both, Boon has only himself and Midway
to blame. Not the internet for posting the various uninspired fatality
movements and character moves.
But that's not to say Atari Games is
> a bad company. I really liked Area 51, and I think the Rush series is pretty
> good.
I never said they were a bad company, but they don't seem to be trying
to deversify the arcade market like Mr. DePreist says they are
attempting to.
Maximum Force, I can do without. I dunno how similar Atari Games is
> to the old days, but Atari Games has over the years released the most
> creative games in arcades today. Just look at stuff like Space Lords,
> Rampart, etc. Granted, that was in the pre-Midway acquisition era.
>
Exactly, and remember those years before Midway got them, becuase watch
as they become more and more like Midway as time goes by. They will
begin to churn out less creative games than they once did. Instead of
taking chances on different types of games, they are going to play it
safe with racers and fighters. Just watch. As much as Mr. DePriest is
stating they are trying to diversify the industry, does anyone really
see them attempting to do it? Nope, doesn't look like it.
I've talked to people at coin-op manufacturers before, and they
> just don't get it. For instance, just look at Midway's blaming of the
> Internet for the failure of their games. I've got an unpublished article
> about the arcade game industry I did a year or so ago where one representative
> tried to say that War Gods was killed by the Internet spreading all the
> 'secrets' so nobody wanted to play anymore. If that's not denial, I don't
> know what is.
No one played War Gods becuase it was crap. Midway just doesn't want to
admit that they made crap. Yes at one time Midway ment fun and quality,
you remember those days don't you? Narc, Smash TV, Total Carnage,
Terminator 2, and the first two MK games. Those were the days before
Midway had to worry about shareholders and profitable quarters and
worried about good games. Now it has to worry about those to things.
Profit and shareholders have come first, quality and innovation have
taken a back seat. This is a different Midway.
Sorry Jeff, but the Midway you once knew is gone, deny all you want,
but it is gone. But as an operator, Midway is good to you, they make
cheap games that you can afford and have a chance to make a profit. But
I am a gamer, you pick and choose these games, but ultimately "I" the
gamer has to PLAY them. I don't care how cheap a game is and who made
it, but crap is crap. Rampage World Tour anyone? Cheap and made by
Midway, one of the most dull and boring games I have ever encountered.
Operators are buisness people, most if not all don't have to play these
games, they usually don't have an understanding of gameplay that most
gamers do. Buy an issue of Next Generation magazine, read the article
on arcades by Marcus Webb, an obvious game room operator. Read his
views on some of the new games that came or coming out. This guy has
absolutly no idea what good gameplay is. He raves how great Mace was
going to be, that it would be the talk of the arcades. What happened?
Mace flopped. He raves about Bio Freaks, what happened? Bio Freaks is
no longer going to be released as an arcade game. Operators are
buisness people. They know the buisness end. Gamers play games, they
know the gameplay end. If you want to know if a game was a success,
buisness wide ask operators and companies. But if you want to know if
the game is actually a GOOD GAME, ask the gamers.
> Operators are getting the shaft. First of all, games cost too
> much money. Midway/Atari is great about this. They use low-cost hardware
> (3Dfx, KoJag) that everyone can afford. Operators take a huge risk on
> stuff like VF3 and SuperGT where machines can cost $15,000 and more. Even
> if they lease, I imagine it's a pretty hefty price. And not only that,
> but the home release appears so shortly after the coin-op that there's
> no time to generate revenue. Basically it seems manufacturers are using
> Operators as source of cheap advertising. They sell a game to an operator,
> he promotes it by having it in his location, then they release it 6 months
> or less on a home system.
> Operators are often very stupid. You know what I mean...most don't
> know how to promote at all. Tournaments, advertising, specials, getting
> even inexpensive upgrades and new versions to machines, and simply keeping
> everything in working order are rare occurences in most arcades. I think
> a lot of arcades go under because most operators aren't very shrewd
> businessmen.
> The quality of games may be on the rise, but variety sure >isn't.
Lack or variety means lack of quality. I on the other hand see arcade
quality games spiraling down along with diversity and variety.
> I mean, I like fighting games and all...but that's ALL that's out there.
> Now, because of the dearth of other genres, the players that used to go to
> arcades to play other sorts of games don't freqeuent arcades anymore.
Exactly, that is why I don't play many arcade games anymore. It's all
fighting games. Fighting games can't live much longer, but companies
don't seem to realize this and continue to make them. Mr. DePriest, in
my earlier posts with me, asserts that Atari is trying to add
diversity. I asked him if he considered Atari putting out more fighting
games and racing games, two of the most over saturated genres in the
arcade market, to be adding diversity to the market as he said. He
never ANSWERED my question. Go look, not once does he answer the vital
question. The arcade market is dying becuase operators aren't pushing
for change and companies are not trying new ideas and genres.
> So even
> if an operator took a risk and bought some nifty shooter or >action/adventure
> title, nobody's there to play it. The audience has been driven out.
There, someone is finally seeing the truth. The audience is gone
becuase operators and companies have driven them away. When fighting
games are dead and gone and arcades and companies wonder where everyone
went, they only have themselves to blame. Case in point, I am a writer,
along with being a game tester, and hopeful game designer, Marvel comics
decided to do something with Spider-man, so they ran a rather dumb story
line where Peter Parker found out he wasn't the real Spider-man. The
loyal audiance left the book in droves, and the book reached it's lowest
sales point in years. So what does Marvel do to help sales, they change
it back to Peter Parker being once again the real Spider-man. But guess
what? The audieance never came back. And as you know Marvel is now in
Chapter 11 banckrupcy. Why did this happen? Well aside from being one
of the most terribly written Spider stories of all time, instead of
trying something new or diverse with the character they just alienated
thier audieiance. Is the arcade market heading this way? It just
maybe.
> But, I think it's funny to say Atari's promoting diversity by
> releasing clone 3D fighters. I mean, a few issues of Next Generation ago,
> some head of development at Atari or something was saying that nobody plays
> fighting games (specifically MACE) because they're all the same now. His
> answer? The Juko Project--which by description is a rip off of traditional
> Japanese fighting games complete with rip off characters and various other
> elements lifted from Tekken & co.
There! You read what I said to Mr. DePriest! He said that they are
trying to add diversity to the market, and low and behold what is
Atari's next game? A fighting game! Look through my posts, I asked Mr.
DePriest to tell me how he and Atari are diversifying the market. Did
he even attempt to answer my question? The one vital question that
might have helped his and Atari's case? NO! He didn't. Why? If he
believes that they are truly making diverse games, why not say so and
prove it. Why? Becuase Atari isn't doing anything to diversify the
market. No one is! As a gamer, I dare any game company to try some
diversity. All gamers should dare companies to try. I dare Mr.
DePriest to prove what he says, that Atari is trying to diversify the
market. I dare and challange arcade operators to say "No more fighting
games." I dare fellow gamers to try games other than fighting games.
The day that MK, SF, and all other fighting games die will be a GREAT
day for gamers.
Nick Muntean
Victor Harris
In article <68sthm$f4j$1...@hirame.wwa.com>, N-Muntean@*NEIU.edu says...
> So Atari made it. And what kind of release? Like 50 arcades at the
> most had them. Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
> Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
> that California Speed, that sucks too. Does Eugene Jarvis know you
> swipped Crusin' and spruced up the graphics only?
And this Derryl D. DePriest is why you guys in the industry should NOT
listen to idiots like this Nick Mentean who just let their frustrations
out into these news groups.
Its a shame too, I wish you guys who make the games could come on to
these groups and not be subjected to stupid remarks like:
> So Atari made it. And what kind of release? Like 50 arcades at the
> most had them. Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
> Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
> that California Speed, that sucks too.
Does this clown actually think you are going to take him seriously when
he just spits out 3rd grade insults like that. (I can't wait to read his
response to my post) This sucks, that sucks, NO EXPLANATION, just take my
word it SUCKS.
I think Atari is doing a great job lately. I really didn't
get into MACE but at least you didn't force it out early like MK4. You
really should convince MIDWAY not to do that anymore. I really like MK4
when it was finally completed. But to release it without fatalities
was a mistake. I can't believe the team actually thought "Hmm, we're not
done but lets release it now anyways" What could that possibly accomplish
excepts piss off the MK fans out there. Which it did.
I am glad though that you at least try to make a valid comment about the
industry. Hope the idiots like Nick Mentean don't discourage you like
they did the Midway guys.
Nick Muntean
Victor Harris wrote:
>
> In article <68sthm$f4j$1...@hirame.wwa.com>, N-Muntean@*NEIU.edu says...
>
> > So Atari made it. And what kind of release? Like 50 arcades at the
> > most had them. Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
> > Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
> > that California Speed, that sucks too. Does Eugene Jarvis know you
> > swipped Crusin' and spruced up the graphics only?
>
> And this Derryl D. DePriest is why you guys in the industry should NOT
> listen to idiots like this Nick Mentean who just let their frustrations
> out into these news groups.
Frustrations? What? I played these games. Did I think they were any
good? Nope. Bio Freaks got taken out of the arcade that I go to. As
did Speed. Am I an idiot for asking a game company to add some
diversity to the arcade market? Or are you the idiot for asking them to
churn out more fighitng and racing games? Yeah I bet you send Midway
like 50 emails a day begging for MK5 don't ya Vic? It's becuase of
idiots like you that don't seem to even voice a protest against the lack
of diversity in the arcade games that the arcade industry is suffering.
But what does Vic care as long as he gets MK part 14 or Daytona part 95,
instead of something new and fresh that will bring people BACK to the
arcades.
>
> Its a shame too, I wish you guys who make the games could come on to
> these groups and not be subjected to stupid remarks like:
>
> > So Atari made it. And what kind of release? Like 50 arcades at the
> > most had them. Then like five months later its on the N64. But both
> > Mace and B.I.O. Freaks share one thing in common, they suck. Oh and
> > that California Speed, that sucks too.
>
> Does this clown actually think you are going to take him seriously when
> he just spits out 3rd grade insults like that. (I can't wait to read his
> response to my post) This sucks, that sucks, NO EXPLANATION, just take my
> word it SUCKS.
>
Ok, Speed is choppy, it's been done before, there seems to be little
difference between the cars avaliable. Mace- unbalanced, slow, great
graphics, you could beat the game with one character and one move (Lord
Diemios and his fire-burn move). Limited combos. Bio Freaks-
unbalanced, rings were too big, so there is less fighting and more
projectile shooting, the point of a fighter is to fight, Bio freaks is a
fighter not a shooter. Again good graphics and some nice ideas here and
there, you can beat the game with one character and one move (Ssapo and
his stomp). I have friends that work at Midway, they didn't like Bio or
Mace either. Besides Vic, didn't you say in earlier posts that you
didn't think Bio freaks and Mace were good. I kind of remember a
referance to War Gods in there somewhere :).
> I think Atari is doing a great job lately.
I think they are too. I liked Freeze and love SFR. But I would like
some variety in the Atari line up. They seem to follow a Fighter then a
Racer type release pattern. What's wrong with something else getting
thrown into the mix that isn't a fighter or a racer? Or do you have a
problem with games that aren't one of those two?
I really didn't
> get into MACE but at least you didn't force it out early like MK4. You
> really should convince MIDWAY not to do that anymore. I really like MK4
> when it was finally completed.
MK4 STILL isn't completed.
>But to release it without fatalities
> was a mistake. I can't believe the team actually thought "Hmm, we're not
> done but lets release it now anyways" What could that possibly accomplish
> excepts piss off the MK fans out there. Which it did.
Midway, cares about profit. They have stockholders to answer to, Vic.
They have to show profitable quarters to them. What better why to get
profit than to put MK4 out. Midway probably cares a little more about
thier stockholders than the typical MK fan.
>
> I am glad though that you at least try to make a valid comment about the
> industry. Hope the idiots like Nick Mentean don't discourage you like
> they did the Midway guys.
You must really love Midway. Tell me do you have a velvet Midway icon
you pray to every night ? 'Oh please Midway, for you have blessed me
with such ground breakng games as MK, MK2, MK3, UMK3, MK4 and for the
ground breaking games that you will release such as MK5, MK6, and MK7.
May Midway never do anything fresh, innovative or diversive, just more
MK's.' DePriest's comments were how Atari was trying to add diversity
to the industry. I simply stated I didn't see it. All they do is
fighters and racers, which, Vic, for your information or lack thereof
are the two most over staturated genres in the industry. Yet DePriest
insists that Atari is trying to diversify the industry. Now Vic, you
seem intelligent, tell me how diverse or different have Atari's games
which have been fighters and racers, compared to whatelse is out there.
Hell do you know what is Atari's next game? It's a fighting game
again. So do you call this an attempt at diversity? I asked DePriest
to answer me if he felt that the recent Atari line up was in anyway
diverse than what is out there now. He never did.
Now Vic, I ask you who is the idiot? The person who asks for diversity
or the person who just wants more fighting and racing games? Espically
more MK games.
Starbase
Hey Victor.. if you save your money now.. You'll have alot to play mk12
with! Idiot.. Hey Nick.. Leave the poor chap alone.. he just needed
someone to kiss up to besides Lex..
1st horseman...out!
Nick Muntean
I already have. Got to admit though, Victor really seems to kiss
Midways butt. Bet you he emailed Midway everyday saying how much he
loved War Gods.
Starbase
Nick Muntean wrote:
> Midways butt. Bet you he emailed Midway everyday saying how much he
> loved War Gods.
>
ass.. Maybe if we buttered up his head, it'll slip out easier!!!
1st horseman...out!