General Vectrex Questions...
Jay
1. Can you MAKE a Vectrex light pen? If so, how?
2. Will we ever get a hold of the games marked NR(Not Released) in the
FAQ? I mean, if they were completed, wouldn't one of the programmers
have a copy of it somewhere?
3. Has anyone attempted to program a game or demo for the Vectrex? Or
is it just not possible?
-Jay
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John F Sandhoff
>
> 1. Can you MAKE a Vectrex light pen? If so, how?
>
backed by a three-transistor waveform shaping circuit. It plugs into
the second controller port. Maybe someday the schematics and PC board
layout will get posted (gee, my ears are ringing...)
> 2. Will we ever get a hold of the games marked NR(Not Released) in the
> FAQ? I mean, if they were completed, wouldn't one of the programmers
> have a copy of it somewhere?
Think about this... First, the original programmer has to still have
the game. They have to be aware of this newsgroup and our continuing
interest. They have to be willing to give away any future interest in
it (and if they contracted with some company, they probably don't own
the rights). And if it was never released, perhaps maybe it never worked?
Smith Engineering generously released rights to the games they owned;
but that doesn't apply to every piece of code ever written for the
machine; just the stuff Smith Engineering controlled.
> 3. Has anyone attempted to program a game or demo for the Vectrex? Or
> is it just not possible?
Sure it's possible. In fact, it was done. Mark Woodward's multicart
has a fron-end menu selection program that was custom-written.
But a comment here: there's been talk of late inquiring why people aren't
programming the Vectrex, and why the known bugs haven't been fixed yet.
Let's step back into reality here: are *you* willing to construct a
prototyping system, and write and debug code for a machine that has
dozens and dozens of eager fans, all of which expect you to 1) give it
away, and b) support it against the flames of 'hey, I found a bug at
level 4,732. Fix it!!!"
And as long as I'm on a roll, here's another comment: Those that have
read this group for a long time have learned some of the history of
the development. This machine was brought to market in the midst of
the game wars - either product was delivered, or you died. In the case
of the Vectrex, they delivered *and* died... The point is, there were
real, solid deadlines involved: "Space Zombies IV ships this Thursday.
PERIOD.". So whatever the code looked like Wednesday night, that's what
shipped. Period. Bugs be damned - that product HAD to get to market.
Well, enough for now...
John F. Sandhoff, University Network Support
(and keeper of the Archives: ftp://ftp.csus.edu)
California State University Sacramento
sand...@csus.edu
Fred Cawthorne
: Smith Engineering generously released rights to the games they owned;
: but that doesn't apply to every piece of code ever written for the
: machine; just the stuff Smith Engineering controlled.
Have they released any source code???
: But a comment here: there's been talk of late inquiring why people aren't
: programming the Vectrex, and why the known bugs haven't been fixed yet.
: Let's step back into reality here: are *you* willing to construct a
: prototyping system, and write and debug code for a machine that has
: dozens and dozens of eager fans, all of which expect you to 1) give it
: away, and b) support it against the flames of 'hey, I found a bug at
: level 4,732. Fix it!!!"
A prototyping system would be the easy part. A 6811 8K ram and a few tri-state
buffers should do the trick. The problem is that you have to learn about
the hardware stuff without much documentation. Granted, we could develop
some of our own routines for graphics, sound, etc... It would be really
nice to see the source for some of the games. Cross-compiling wouldn't be
that bad either. There's 6809 assemblers around for just about every platform.
We could even use gcc, although that would probably not be fast enough code.
I guess someone could sit down and write up a hardware doc. with detailed
programming information about how to do stuff, and then we would have a
nice starting point. I'll see if I can whip up a development system if
someone else can do the above. The simplest thing would be a card with
a serial port, that you unplug, program, and plug in to the vectrex to try
out your program. If you add 3 more buffer chips, you could leave it plugged
in. I guess one could also use a dual ported ram, but 8k ones are pretty
expensive if I remember right. Something like the xmodem protocol should
fit into the 512 bytes of internal eeprom on the 6811. Or, we could just
send in motorola HEX records that most compilers generate. The total cost
would be under $40 or so...
With the 6811, you don't even need an eprom programmer to program it for
something like this.
Well, enough rambling for now... How many people are interested in
messing with this sort of thing??
Fred.
Myron A. Calhoun
>Fred Cawthorne (fca...@jjarray.umd.edu) wrote:
>> :
>> : Smith Engineering generously released rights to the games they owned;
>> : but that doesn't apply to every piece of code ever written for the
>> : machine; just the stuff Smith Engineering controlled.
>> :
>> Have they released any source code???
>No and they probably won't. The release was fairly specific; *ONLY*
>unmodified object code. I guess that would mean that if anybody did
>patch Berzerk that it would still be a violation of the copyright...
Maybe it's time to post Smith engineering's letter again:
------------ cut here ------------ cut here ------------ cut here ------------
Smith Engineering
12057 Jefferson Boulevard
Culver City, CA 90230
(310) 821-7880
FAX (310) 306-1739
October 27, 1992
Dr. Myron A. Calhoun
Associate Professor of Computer Science
2001 Dunbar Road
Manhattan, KS 66502-3907
Dear Dr. Calhoun:
I recently received a copy of your letter of September 14th to Milton
Bradley regarding the Vectrex Arcade System. I am proud to say that
Smith Engineering is the original developer of the Vectrex system and
programmed a number of the original cartridges. The rights to the
system have been returned to us after production ceased at the Milton
Bradley Company.
It is a great pleasure to hear from a group of dedicated Vectrex users.
Obviously, it is a great favorite of ours and has a significant place in
our Hall of Fame of toy and game products. We are happy to grant you
the right to continue your personal hobby of using and enhancing the
game system, as long as it is for your personal use and not a commercial
enterprise; in fact, we would be anxious to see your improvements. This
permission extends to the right to copy and distribute the instruction
booklets and service manuals, and to duplicate and/or create game ROM's
for your personal use. When the opportunity arises, please send us a
ROM sample of your work.
At some point in the future I would be happy to discuss the history of
Vectrex and some of the stillborn ideas to further enhance the system.
At one time we had considered a color version and there were even plans
for a handheld version. Unfortunately, neither came to fruition.
I look forward to hearing of your progress.
Sincerely yours,
[signature of Jay Smith]
Jay Smith
/df
cc: Ms. Eileen Mooney
Hasbro,Inc., Legal Department
------------ cut here ------------ cut here ------------ cut here ------------
The only restriction I see is that "you" can do anything "you" want as
long as it is for "your" personal use and not a commercial enterprise.
Since the letter specifically referred to a "group", I interpret "you"
and "your" as "we" and "our". The only hint of "only unmodified object
code" I can detect might be in the words "duplicate and/or create game
ROM's", but "duplicating" a game ROM and then "creating" some new stuff
for it would seem to be within the granted permissions.
--Myron.
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Insanitor
: No and they probably won't. The release was fairly specific; *ONLY*
: unmodified object code. I guess that would mean that if anybody did
: patch Berzerk that it would still be a violation of the copyright...
How do I go about programming my Vectrex? I've never tried it before,
and I thought Vectrex was pretty dead. But I saw this newsgroup, and
remembered my trusty Vectrex, and decided to check it out... Is there a
special machine I need to attach, or what?
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| iNSANITOR [OgreHorn] | Don't drink and park, accidents cause people. |
| insa...@xmission.com | |
`-----------------------'-------------------------------------[Anonymous]-'
Glenn M. Saunders
Myron A. Calhoun (m...@cis.ksu.edu) wrote:
: The only restriction I see is that "you" can do anything "you" want as
: long as it is for "your" personal use and not a commercial enterprise.
: Since the letter specifically referred to a "group", I interpret "you"
: and "your" as "we" and "our". The only hint of "only unmodified object
: code" I can detect might be in the words "duplicate and/or create game
: ROM's", but "duplicating" a game ROM and then "creating" some new stuff
: for it would seem to be within the granted permissions.
Yeah, patching berzerk would seem legal to me as long as it's all
no-profit. Same for new games. If all one is conerned with is FIXING a
bug, it would seem ludicrous to try to prevent people from doing what
they should have done years ago.
Jeff Hunsinger
an EPROM emulator. You can buy one starting at about $100 or build your own for
$20-$30. Use your computer to write and assemble your code, then dump it to the
emulator. My emulator is messed at the moment, so I haven't been able to use it
with my Vectrex yet. I did use it to create autostarting cartridges for the C64,
though.
Jeff
Fred Cawthorne
: You are going into a little overkill with the dual ported RAM and HC11. Just use
That's exactly what I am saying I will build... HC11=$12 ram=$4 board=$10 or so... Cheap, right?? The reason I like 6811 is that you can program it with
a serial port, and you can use its serial port to program the ram from the PC.
You do need some sort of buffers to isolate the 6811 from the ram so the
vectrex can use it though. I do have an eprom programmer, but that's much more
of a pain for development, since you have to erase the thing each time, plug
it in, etc... I used to do it that way, but now I use a monitor rom in a
6811 to dump the program to ram, then put it in eprom once it is reasonably
stable. Anyway, I guess one could go and buy a programmer (maybe that's what
you meant...) instead. It would be nice, though, if the thing required no
extra hardware for the pc, so people could do development on any computer they
want using the same hardware. (All you need is a cross compiler and a serial
port)
The development process would be something like:
1. Write your code.
2. Assemble on your unix workstation, pc, mac, hp calculator, or whatever...
3. Turn on vectrex... Mine storm comes up...
4. go to another window where a terminal program is running.
5. send over the hex records your assembler generated.
6. push reset on the vectrex, your program is now running.
7. find your next bug
8. turn off vectrex
9. goto 1
Anyway, like I said, that's the easy part. The hard part is writing programs
for hardware we really don't know how to use.
Suggestions/comments?? Anybody want to REALLY write vectrex programs???
(If it is just me, I'll shut up, because I don't want to deal with it alone)
Fred.
Insanitor
: Anyway, like I said, that's the easy part. The hard part is writing programs
: for hardware we really don't know how to use.
: Suggestions/comments?? Anybody want to REALLY write vectrex programs???
: (If it is just me, I'll shut up, because I don't want to deal with it alone)
I sure do.. Vectrex rocks.. What language do you use to program a
Vectrex? Assembler?
John D Harris
enough to learn Vectrex programming. They even include diagrams for
different types of development hardware. I even have a 6809 cross
assembler, but the critical piece I am missing is a 6809 Disassembler. If
anyone can help me out here, please let me know.
I definitely would love to clean up bugs and joystick control improvements
in several existing games. It's really disappointing how many of the games
could have made great use of the Vectrex's analog stick, but process it
just like a digital. Even simple things like craft rotation could be
really nice if it were analog based.
John Harris - jha...@cup.portal.com
Glenn M. Saunders
: I sure do.. Vectrex rocks.. What language do you use to program a
: Vectrex? Assembler?
Any language you want as long as it winds up as ML in the end. That's
pretty much common sense don't you think?
The vectrex has a 32K ROM address space so you could theoretically use a
more memory-hogging language like C and get away with it but if you
program for the standard 4K or 8K that the old games used you'd probably
not have enough space to be able to work with C or Pascal or anything.
Essentially, since the Vectrex has its own OS routines to draw on,
assembly is best because you'd simply poke into the OS routines to get
most things done. A high-level C for the Vectrex would merely be making
this process more readable but would simply be doing the same thing with
probably more overhead involved.
Another problem is the fact that the Vextrex has only 2K of RAM (I think)
which means careful use of memory, reusing that RAM window carefully,
etc... Computer programs usually reside in RAM so its a very different
process developing in RAM from developing in ROM (with scratchpad RAM).
However, if you made (as I've discussed) a special cartridge with a
mixture of RAM and ROM you could make things easier. For instance, 24K
ROM and 8K RAM. That would make 10K RAM total and 24K ROM which is more
comfortable to work in and would require less hassle.
Shain Klammer
I too wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty with the 6809 again, and can
provide you with a disassembler (from my COCO days), even one compatible
with QBASIC on an IBM....
What I would like is someone to email me some of the FTP developer
info/schematics since I've only got Email access and not the FTP...
I would assume that any "new" development for the Vectrex could for sold
for a nominal (cheap) fee and not contrevene the "intent" from Smith
Engineering.
And to the fellow wanting a 300 dpi scan for the Scramble overlay... why
not just clean up the 72 dpi version. I mean, they're not that complex
a piece of artwork; a couple of hours on CorelDraw or something and
you'll have a perfect rendition...