Bastard Sword = hand strike question
L. Scott Johnson
can swing his Bastard Sword? That's an interesting picture.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
Stephen Beaulieu
Scott Johnson) wrote:
: So, now, under the VTES card text, an Immortal Grappled minion
Or how about using a Bastard Sword and Claws? If the sword gives +1 hand
damage according to card text, you ought to be able to use claws with
them, since they make hand damage aggravated.
FWIW my group has adopted a house rule that the bastard sword does hand
damage +1 damage. That simple fix means that to use the Bastard sword you
don't get the benefits from Fists of Death, Torn Sign Post, or Claws,
which mirros the conditions in Jyhad. But it still means that Zack North
and other 2 hand damage vamps can actually make use of the Bastard sword
(doing 3 points of damage without a strike card.)
And it would also mean that a Bastard Sword couldn't be used for a strike
under the effects of an Immortal Grapple.
That's my take on the appropriate way to handle the VTES bastard sword.
Any comments?
stephen beaulieu
hi...@mail.utexas.edu
Thomas R Wylie
When you strike with your bastard sword, you are not actually hitting the
opposing minion with your hands, and applying a +1 modifier to them. You
are hitting them with a weapon that does damage equal to your hand damage + 1.
Therefore you can't stack Wolf Claws with the sword, either. Obviously this
all extends to other weapons.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Owen Reynolds
>When you strike with your bastard sword, you are not actually hitting the
>opposing minion with your hands, and applying a +1 modifier to them. You
>are hitting them with a weapon that does damage equal to your hand damage + 1.
>Therefore you can't stack Wolf Claws with the sword, either. Obviously this
>all extends to other weapons.
So, is this right --
Bianca (+1 hand damage, normal potence) can now equip with a Bastard
Sword (+1 more hand damage) and play Torn Signpost (base hand damage is 2)
and Undead Strength (+1 more, and allows the melee weapon) to do 5 damage
in a strike? (Whereas before the Sword and Signpost were useless to her.)
I can see where this isn't a horrible change -- 2 hand damage vampires
did seem a bit weak, before. Crusher, for example, often just uses a
Superior-sized "Welcome to Chicago" signpost, making his 2 hand damage
pointless.
Zack is a lot beter, as well. It used to be he could play UStrength and
Wolf's Claws to do 2 points of damage and send you to torpor. Now he can
play Signpost for an extra point _and_ gets an extra point from the Agg
damage rule's change, so can do 4 and send you to torpor with the right
cards.
While I'm on the subject, can Pulled Fangs now be used to burn a
vampire that you're pounded into torpor? It was already a pretty good
card for "pound" combat decks to keep wasted vampires out of things for
longer. Now it just burns them when they drop into torpor from lack of
blood?
rit...@cruzio.com
> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
> >When you strike with your bastard sword, you are not actually hitting the
> >opposing minion with your hands, and applying a +1 modifier to them. You
> >are hitting them with a weapon that does damage equal to your hand damage + 1.
> >Therefore you can't stack Wolf Claws with the sword, either. Obviously this
> >all extends to other weapons.
>
> So, is this right --
>
> Bianca (+1 hand damage, normal potence) can now equip with a Bastard
> Sword (+1 more hand damage) and play Torn Signpost (base hand damage is 2)
> and Undead Strength (+1 more, and allows the melee weapon) to do 5 damage
> in a strike? (Whereas before the Sword and Signpost were useless to her.)
>
No. Bianca has 2 Hand damage, not +1 Hand damage. Hence, she could not
gain the benefit of an inferior Torn Signpost. The Sword is useful to her now,
though. Hence, she could now perform:
Bastard Sword (+1), Fists of Death (+1), Undead Strength (+1), for a
total of 5, yes. However, since she has CELERITY, she could conceivably strike
2 more times with Blur.
> I can see where this isn't a horrible change -- 2 hand damage vampires
> did seem a bit weak, before. Crusher, for example, often just uses a
> Superior-sized "Welcome to Chicago" signpost, making his 2 hand damage
> pointless.
>
> Zack is a lot beter, as well. It used to be he could play UStrength and
> Wolf's Claws to do 2 points of damage and send you to torpor. Now he can
> play Signpost for an extra point _and_ gets an extra point from the Agg
> damage rule's change, so can do 4 and send you to torpor with the right
> cards.
>
> While I'm on the subject, can Pulled Fangs now be used to burn a
> vampire that you're pounded into torpor? It was already a pretty good
> card for "pound" combat decks to keep wasted vampires out of things for
> longer. Now it just burns them when they drop into torpor from lack of
> blood?
Yep.
Ritaxis
--
Biomech8
Wylie) writes:
>When you strike with your bastard sword, you are not actually hitting the
>opposing minion with your hands, and applying a +1 modifier to them. You
>are hitting them with a weapon that does damage equal to your hand damage
+
>1.
>Therefore you can't stack Wolf Claws with the sword, either. Obviously
this
>all extends to other weapons.
What about torn signpost, is this meant to be a weapon? I would think not
since you can apply wolf claws to make it aggravated. I like to think
that the minion simply yanks it out of the ground as a feat of strength.
Though that doesn't really make any sense either.
L. Scott Johnson
>When you strike with your bastard sword, you are not actually hitting the
>opposing minion with your hands, and applying a +1 modifier to them. You
>are hitting them with a weapon that does damage equal to your hand damage + 1.
>Therefore you can't stack Wolf Claws with the sword, either. Obviously this
>all extends to other weapons.
So it isn't:
Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
+1 hand damage
But rather:
Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
Strike: hand +1 damage.
Correct?
(Therefore not usable under Immortal Grapple, nor with Claws).
(I haven't seen the VtES card text, so all of my info at this point
comes from the news.group).
Biomech8
I THINK that Pulled Fangs can now only be played during the press phase,
so if some has gone to torpor during any of the strike resolutions combat
is over and they go to torpor before you can Pull their Fangs, so to burn
with Pulled Fangs you have to calculate how much damage you need to do
normally during the round so that your opponent has 0 blood at the press
stage, of course taking into consideration all the factors this is nearly
impossible, especially since your opponent has the chance of playing a
Taste before you yank the Fangs out of their head and send them to torpor.
~Biomechanoid
Scott A DiBerardino
: No. Bianca has 2 Hand damage, not +1 Hand damage. Hence, she
could not
: gain the benefit of an inferior Torn Signpost. The Sword is useful to
her now,
: though. Hence, she could now perform:
:
: Bastard Sword (+1), Fists of Death (+1), Undead Strength (+1), for a
: total of 5, yes. However, since she has CELERITY, she could conceivably
strike
: 2 more times with Blur.
Actually, in VtES, Bianca has +1 hand damage. All the other former "2 hand
damage" vampires now read "+1 hand damage".
On a side note, I read the "new" Torn Signpost as allowing a strike that
does 2 hand damage, or 3 with superior; not a modifier to base hand
damage. In this case, Bianca et al do gain benefits from a Torn Signpost.
-scott
"Lord God, war is a beautiful thing, but I want to fight for my own pleasure and not because my adversary eats meat on Friday."
-- Monsieur de Saint-Savin, _The_Island_of_the_Day_Before_
Daniel Hoffman
>other strikes for increased damage. The sword should be: +1 hand damage each
>strike.
Even better text would be:
Bastard Sword
Hand damage + 1 each strike.
That way you wouldn't confuse a sword strike with a hand strike and now you
can use stuff like torn signpost with a bastard sword. I want the new Bianca
and Crusher and some new bastard swords. They were useless together before,
now I can do 6 damage in one strike with anyone with a bastard sword and sup.
potence.
Maybe I can ressurrect my Nosferatu deck. I wonder if Nosferatu can
work now? Night Moves to grab the edge, Raven Spies and Cat's guidence to
intercept, spawning pool to deter bleeders, sewers to force close combat so my
retainers don't get hosed (new V:TES rules). Labyrinth for extra permanent
stealth, lots of untaps with presses for using the spawning pool. A few aid
from bats for vamps without good weapons/retainers/potence, for a manuever and
a press. Canine Hordes to take out opposing equipment. Hidden lurker to
torporize if the spawning pool fails. Bastard swords to increase damage.
Taste of Vitae to refill weakened vampires.
Daniel Hoffman
>>other strikes for increased damage. The sword should be: +1 hand damage each
>>strike.
>How does that wording allow Lucky Blow but disallow Claws?
>(I can see how it allows Lucky Blow, but I fail to see how it disallows Claws).
I fixed that definition in a revised posting after I thought about it.
Bastard Sword
Hand Damage + 1 each strike
That way it implies it isn't hand damage. Moving the +1 after the words hand
damage means the sword is doing 1 more damage than the hand damage of the
vampire and the sword is the strike.
L. Scott Johnson
Daniel Hoffman <dhof...@cris.com> wrote:
>>So it isn't:
>
>>Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
>> +1 hand damage
>
>>But rather:
>
>>Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
>> Strike: hand +1 damage.
>
>>Correct?
>
>other strikes for increased damage. The sword should be: +1 hand damage each
>strike.
How does that wording allow Lucky Blow but disallow Claws?
(I can see how it allows Lucky Blow, but I fail to see how it disallows Claws).
--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text
Thomas R Wylie
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>So it isn't:
>
>Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
> +1 hand damage
>
>But rather:
>
>Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
> Strike: hand +1 damage.
>
>Correct?
Right.
>(I haven't seen the VtES card text, so all of my info at this point
>comes from the news.group).
Well, the texts aren't exactly clear...
Biomech8
Wylie) writes:
>> So, is this right --
>> Bianca (+1 hand damage, normal potence) can now equip with a Bastard
>>Sword (+1 more hand damage) and play Torn Signpost (base hand damage is
2)
>>and Undead Strength (+1 more, and allows the melee weapon) to do 5
damage
>>in a strike? (Whereas before the Sword and Signpost were useless to
her.)
>
>All correct.
Does the V:TES Bianca say "+1 hand damage" or "2 hand damage"? I thought
she was still 2 hand damage and if that is the case playing torn signpost
gives her no bonus so the above situation would be 4 damage w/the bastard
sword. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have only bought two V:TES
boosters and haven't seen any vamps with 2 hand damage (or +1).
~Biomechanoid
Thomas R Wylie
Owen Reynolds <reyn...@cs.iastate.edu> wrote:
> So, is this right --
> Bianca (+1 hand damage, normal potence) can now equip with a Bastard
>Sword (+1 more hand damage) and play Torn Signpost (base hand damage is 2)
>and Undead Strength (+1 more, and allows the melee weapon) to do 5 damage
>in a strike? (Whereas before the Sword and Signpost were useless to her.)
All correct.
> I can see where this isn't a horrible change -- 2 hand damage vampires
>did seem a bit weak, before. Crusher, for example, often just uses a
>Superior-sized "Welcome to Chicago" signpost, making his 2 hand damage
>pointless.
That was the general idea :)
> While I'm on the subject, can Pulled Fangs now be used to burn a
>vampire that you're pounded into torpor? It was already a pretty good
>card for "pound" combat decks to keep wasted vampires out of things for
>longer. Now it just burns them when they drop into torpor from lack of
>blood?
If you pull the fangs from an empty vampire it is burned, yes.
rit...@cruzio.com
> >So it isn't:
>
> >Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
> > +1 hand damage
>
> >But rather:
>
> >Bastard Sword - Weapon (1)
> > Strike: hand +1 damage.
>
> >Correct?
>
> other strikes for increased damage. The sword should be: +1 hand damage each
> strike.
Right. The wording should be
Bastard Sword - Weapon {1}
+1 Hand Damage.
Since you already couldn't use the benefits and/or strikes of more
than one weapon, there is no problem.
(Of course, this does mean that Torn Signpost is going to count as a `weapon
until end of turn', Blegh.)
Ritaxis
--
Thomas R Wylie
All of the vampires that had "2 hand damage" in Jyhad do (should) have
"+1 hand damage" in VTES.