[LSJ] 'During strike resolution' clarification needed
Flux
unclear the resolution of this kind of effects is:
Ellen Fence was in combat with Meshenka, Meshenka had played a Carrion
Crows, then a Blood of Acid, and Ellen Fence had used a Shadow Feint and
then a Wolf Claws. How should damage resolve (both minions used hand
strikes)?
Retainers (and Carrion Crows) have been clarified to deal their damage
during 'normal' strike resolution, ie, First Strike beats them.
Should this apply to Blood of Acid?
Apparently BoA's 'during each strike resolution' means that it resolves
during the opposing minion's First Strike, and then resolves again during
the minion's strike resolution (for 0, since the opposing minion won't be
applying any damage at that time - assuming both minions are still ready),
but then that seems to leave Carrions Crows open for the same
interpretation. Why should 'during strike resolution' mean the 'normal'
strike resolution when this might not even exist (if both minions strike
with First Strike, for example)?
It seems strange to have an effect that occurs 'during strike resolution'
possibly resolve after all strikes have resolved, and yet have BoA work
differently...
Of course, if it really meant 'during this minion's strike resolution' it
would open up a whole lot of other problems (everybody would start using
Ahrimanes for their Carrion Crows/Majesty combo)... :-)
Flux
LSJ
>
> This situation came up during a game today, and it just made clear how
> unclear the resolution of this kind of effects is:
> Ellen Fence was in combat with Meshenka, Meshenka had played a Carrion
> Crows, then a Blood of Acid, and Ellen Fence had used a Shadow Feint and
> then a Wolf Claws. How should damage resolve (both minions used hand
> strikes)?
EF's hand strike at First strike resolves.
If none is prevented, EF suffers a like amount of damage from BoA.
COmbat ends with combatants no longer ready.
> Retainers (and Carrion Crows) have been clarified to deal their damage
> during 'normal' strike resolution, ie, First Strike beats them.
> Should this apply to Blood of Acid?
No.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Derek Ray
Flux <fl...@netc.pt> mumbled something about:
>This situation came up during a game today, and it just made clear how
>unclear the resolution of this kind of effects is:
>Ellen Fence was in combat with Meshenka, Meshenka had played a Carrion
>Crows, then a Blood of Acid, and Ellen Fence had used a Shadow Feint and
>then a Wolf Claws. How should damage resolve (both minions used hand
>strikes)?
Carrion Crows' damage has been ruled to be "...akin to how
retainer-based damage is handled. [LSJ 19971211]", so Wolf Companion
rulings can be used.
"The damage is done during normal damage dealing, so a Combat Ends will
stop it, as will sending its controller to torpor during first strike.
[RTR 19941109]"
Ellen's strike is 1 point of aggravated hand damage to Meshenka during
First Strike resolution. Blood of Acid relevant card text:
"...During each strike resolution this round, the opposing minion takes
an amount of damage equal to the damage he or she successfully
inflicts."
I'd read "each" to mean exactly that: each. So Ellen takes 1 point of
agg from the BoA, and Meshenka's hand-strike and Carrion Crows strike do
not resolve, since both vamps are in torpor by then. There's still a
strike resolution phase for First Strikes, it just doesn't come into
play very often.
BoA superior against a pot/CEL/FOR vampire who has played a Torn
Signpost, Skin of Rock, and Blurred, for example, would also return 2
points of agg damage each strike resolution -- meaning 3 Skin of Rocks
would be necessary for this vamp to survive.
>Apparently BoA's 'during each strike resolution' means that it resolves
>during the opposing minion's First Strike, and then resolves again during
>the minion's strike resolution (for 0, since the opposing minion won't be
>applying any damage at that time - assuming both minions are still ready),
>but then that seems to leave Carrions Crows open for the same
>interpretation. Why should 'during strike resolution' mean the 'normal'
Per the Carrion Crows rulings:
"Carrion Crows does "1R each round" to the opposing minion (card text).
The "during strike resolution" just tells you when that 1R per round is
resolved. (2R for superior)..."
>strike resolution when this might not even exist (if both minions strike
>with First Strike, for example)?
Because it has to happen sometime, and the normal strike resolution is
the only one that can be counted on to exist in all combats (barring
effects that pre-empt that resolution, but those effects are quite
rare).
Also, since First Strike simulates an effect of striking "faster" than
an opponent, it seems sort of silly to have someone's pets move faster
than they can. =)
>It seems strange to have an effect that occurs 'during strike resolution'
>possibly resolve after all strikes have resolved, and yet have BoA work
>differently...
BoA's card text specifying "each" is the only reason. Lacking that, BoA
would resolve during "normal" strike resolution. Odds are the "each"
was added to deal with Blurring minions such as the one above, who would
otherwise be able to fudge their way around BoA.
--
Derek
...Vampire Squirrel has come to bite your nuts!
Flux
news:b7d21usu7fklb82m4...@4ax.com:
> retainer-based damage is handled. [LSJ 19971211]", so Wolf Companion
> rulings can be used.
>
> "The damage is done during normal damage dealing, so a Combat Ends will
> stop it, as will sending its controller to torpor during first strike.
> [RTR 19941109]"
This is a clarification, not a ruling. There are quite a few of these that
actually seem like they should be rulings, some other conclusion seems
equally plausible from card text/rules. Not that I'm complaining about the
content of this one in particular, just about the classification in
general. :-)
Flux