What's a Twister?
librarian
twister? What kind of deck is that. Is it just multi-action, or is
there something more that makes it a twister? Auntie Em, Auntie Em!
best -
chris
XZealot
Twister: a deck designed to operate at below normal deck minimums
(usually 40 cards)through the use of burn option cards to pad the deck
to normal minimums and ashheap recursion to line up perfect hands. Key
vampires are Carlotta, Potchli, Henry Taylor, Martha Dizier, Nehemiah.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Frederick Scott
news:1161061616.6...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am hearing this phrase "Twister" as in Mata Twister or Hector
> twister? What kind of deck is that. Is it just multi-action, or is
> there something more that makes it a twister? Auntie Em, Auntie Em!
I believe it's a deck designed to reduce its own library down to a
relative few (10 or so, maybe less) cards that are just perfect. The
excess cards are usually burn cards for bloodlines not to be found in
the twister deck's crypt. Then the desired cards are continually
regenerated, for instance, by using Waste Management Operation. I'm
guessing the reference to "twister" comes from the banned-even-in-T1
Magic card, "Mind Twist" - the one that destroys your opponent's hand.
Since Twister decks often hinge on the use of some particular vampire,
that's the other part of the deck name. A "Henry Twister" deck, for
instance, uses Henry Taylor's ability to regenerate library cards.
I guess a Mata Twister deck turns all its burn cards into toolbox
cards of a sort, which can be discarded using the burn rule or
actually used as desired. (I have no idea what its other tricks
are.) A "Pochtli Twister" deck is the other one I recall hearing
about - since Pochtli is another vampire with a special library
regeneration ability.
Fred
Jozxyqk
"Twister" is a deck that is played from the ash heap, basically.
It all came from a local Boston player's deck which he called
"Pochtli Twister" (named for the M:tG card "Desert Twister"). The
whole point of that deck was to discard as fast as possible, and
then use Pochtli's ability to get the "perfect hand" every turn.
(i.e. always have Govern the Unaligned, Lost in Crowds, Wake
and Deflection in hand).
Later, Ben Peal combined this idea with Burn Option, to create
a deck which was effectively less than 60 cards, and discarded
itself even faster.
Burn Option made Twister better because it was faster.
Personally, I have also tried the concept of "Shahid Twister",
which used Shahid and a Homunculus to do the discarding instead
of Burn Option, although that one didn't work out too well.
rdco...@gmail.com
>I'm
>guessing the reference to "twister" comes from the banned-even-in-T1
>Magic card, "Mind Twist" - the one that destroys your opponent's hand.
Jozxyqk
>(named for the M:tG card "Desert Twister")
All due respect, and I'm not in the position to know for sure, but
given the cards in question I suspect both these are wrong:
Mind Twist
Sorcery, XB
Opponent must discard X cards at random from hand.
If opponent doesn't have enough cards in hand, entire hand is
discarded.
Desert Twister
Sorcery, 4GG
Destroy target permanent.
Whereas I suspect a more likely source of the name is:
Timetwister
Sorcery, 2U (thats blue mana for the non-mtg players)
Set Timetwister aside in a new graveyard pile.
Shuffle your hand, library, and graveyard together into a new library
and draw a new hand of seven cards, leaving all cards in play where
they are; opponent must do the same.
Note how much more "twister-like" the effect is, also Timetwister is
one of the original Power-9 of MTG. (Lotus, 5xMox, Ancestral Recal,
Time Walk, Timetwister)
At least, thats how I'd assumed the name came up.
Of course, in effect the decks are far more akin to the old MTG "digger
decks", using Soldevi Digger (from Alliances, I believe) deck, to
repeatedly recycle a few cards per turn from graveyard to deck,
generally to give constant counter magic and removal in the end game
(recycling Swords to Plowshares and Counterspell to protect a Serra
Angel back in the day...).
Whereas Timetwister is far more of a turbo-charged "use 6 of your 7
card start hand then twist to get 7 more and recycle the ones you just
played (especially if one was a lotus)".
Jozxyqk
> All due respect, and I'm not in the position to know for sure, but
> given the cards in question I suspect both these are wrong:
> Timetwister
> Sorcery, 2U (thats blue mana for the non-mtg players)
> Set Timetwister aside in a new graveyard pile.
> Shuffle your hand, library, and graveyard together into a new library
> and draw a new hand of seven cards, leaving all cards in play where
> they are; opponent must do the same.
Yes, yes, this is the namesake.
Sorry.
Now you can feel better about yourself.
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> I guess a Mata Twister deck turns all its burn cards into toolbox
> cards of a sort, which can be discarded using the burn rule or
> actually used as desired. (I have no idea what its other tricks
> are.)
Yes. Ben made a Mata Hari Twister deck that played or discarded D'habi
Revenants, which allowed her to play War Ghouls, making an effective
War Ghoul deck with only five copies. Also, she can play Waste
Management Operation.
--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
robert joseph
> >I'm
> >guessing the reference to "twister" comes from the banned-even-in-T1
> >Magic card, "Mind Twist" - the one that destroys your opponent's hand.
against my better judgement, I'll jump in here too- Mind Twist is
not banned in type 1/vintage Magic, only restricted to one copy.
--
Bob Joseph jos...@cse.ohio-state.edu
http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~joseph
atomweaver
news:1161092859....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Google Search: Econo Ghoul for a decklist.
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
Frederick Scott
news:u14u022...@psi.cse.ohio-state.edu...
>> Frederick Scott:
>> >I'm
>> >guessing the reference to "twister" comes from the banned-even-in-T1
>> >Magic card, "Mind Twist" - the one that destroys your opponent's hand.
>
> against my better judgement, I'll jump in here too- Mind Twist is
> not banned in type 1/vintage Magic, only restricted to one copy.
My mistake. It is no longer on the banned list. Doing a brief
google search, I discovered I am not crazy however - it was placed
on the T1 banned list in 1996. Apparently it was removed back
to the restricted list in the year 2000.
I agree with the guy who said Jyhad Twister decks are probably
named after Timetwister, though. That makes a lot more sense.
Fred
Robert Scythe
So you sell your shop and forget your card games? As others have
pointed out it is a nickname from Magic for recursion decks. The
'Infinite Recursion' decks were the toughest deck types to beat at one
point with the main cards being Timetwister and Time Walk. Along with
the rest of the "Power Nine" (Ancestral Recall, the Moxes and Lotus)
the 2 other key cards of the deck were Demonic Tutor and Regrowth. The
idea being that you continue to Time Walk and Twister until whatever
other combo you are using to kill your opponent finally does so. The
reference to the Soldevi Digger as more akin to what VTES 'Twister'
effects do is correct so far as in the mechanic, however the fact that
in VTES (as opposed to MTG) you always replace your cards makes the
recursion effect rather immediate, if you can burn your library down
until it holds your desired combination of cards.
the_groo...@yahoo.com.au
terminology in this game. VTES, where excessive terminology is barely
enough.
Blooded Sand
Bloat
Vote Push
Cap 'n Tap
Eating
Ping for 1
any others anyone?
oh yeah, twister
the_groo...@yahoo.com.au
> Bloat
> Vote Push
> Cap 'n Tap
> Eating
> Ping for 1
> any others anyone?
>
> oh yeah, twister
Bruise Bleed, Sleaze bleed, Tool Box, cheesy,Master phase, Untap phase,
Minion phase, Influence phase, Discard phase, Methuselah, Referendum,
Camerilla, Sabbat ect ect....We could go on all day and night Re:nerdy
card terms...Once I was on a train with two of my friends commenting
about a VTES tournament they where involved in. Other people on the
train where frowning and trying very hard to understand what was being
said...eg: "His preditore bled him for 5..then his prey then played an
Archon and burnt the II cap Fatty...Next turn his grand prey rushed his
one and only remaining vamp..pulled his fangs and arms off.. I starting
thinking to myself, I would have no idea what these weirdos where
saying unless I played the game...Us card nerds really do have a
strange language.
Alf
> I agree with the guy who said Jyhad Twister decks are probably
> named after Timetwister, though. That makes a lot more sense.
Hey, just ask Ben Peal.
I seem to recall a comment from him regarding his several
tries to "twist" the game. One of his efforts was to simulate
smaller than 60-card decks in conjunction with
Pochtli and those burn options.
Dunno if he's got a m*gix background or this is coincidence
or just an imagination if me being an old man with dubious
memories :))
Cheers,
Alf
Ben Peal
A "twister" deck is one that is designed to take advantage of
recycling cards back into one's library, typically for some sort
of iterative looping effect. The name was first used by Keith Paige
for his Pochtli Twister deck, which used Pochtli's special to create
an interative loop of cards. I presume he got the name from the
Magic card Timetwister. Many years later, I built my own version
of the deck, this time taking advantage of burn option cards to
speed up the recycling process. I've since built a few more such
decks, such as Henry Twister (Earth Meld loop) and EconoGhoul
(Mata Hari War Ghoul). While I credit Keith for the original idea,
I suppose I get credit for putting the archetype on the map. I also
wrote an article about them for The Ash Heap:
http://ashheap.storageannex.com/burnoption.htm
There are a few things I'd like to add since the article was posted:
- If you're building a twister deck that centers around Smiling Jack
as the ousting strategy, I strongly recommend including Pentex
Subversion, as it helps slow down your prey and pre-emptively
prevents you from getting hosed by someone else's Pentex
Subversion.
- Obviously Maabara is another good recycler card.
- I've been using Autarkis Persecution and Diversity in twister
decks lately, since playing one every turn can be quite strong.
- On an abstract level, you should be using a full mix of burn
option masters in order to minimize the effect of Victim of Habit.
On a practical level, you probably don't have to worry about
someone playing Victim of Habit, and it's cheaper to acquire
Dirty Contracts and/or Slaughterhouses.
- The Smiling Jack decks that use No Secrets From the Magaji
function in the same way as a twister deck, in that they're trying
to set up an infinite loop combo for the win. I haven't yet built a
burn-option-padded No Secrets deck, but the No Secrets +
Smiling Jack archetype is a prime candidate for burn option
treatment.
- No, really, use Brothers Grimm and burn option masters. It's
5 free pool.
- Robert Goudie has a funny twist (ha! twist!) on Henry Twister,
using Zip Guns instead of burn option cards.
That's all I can think of for now. :)
- Ben Peal
atomweaver
news:1161152693....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Its true. Ben is/was an experienced MtG player, before we succumbed to The
Dark Side of the WotC.
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
atomweaver
@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Power (bleed)
bruise (n bleed)
sneak (n bleed)
Toolbox
Attrition
Turbo
DaveZ
AW
Robert Goudie
> librarian chris wrote:
> - Robert Goudie has a funny twist (ha! twist!) on Henry Twister,
> using Zip Guns instead of burn option cards.
In addition to Zip Guns, you could play any card that doesn't have 1
per combat limits (a deck packed with Flesh of Marble, for instance).
I should mention that I've had a couple of games where people refused
to ever block Henry and never let him unload all his zip guns in
combat.
Which leads to the next version...
Deflating the deck with Nosferatu Putrescence. Ideally you get to dump
them all on somebody else's Nos in combat (or your own if necessary).
Enjoy your -50 strength sucker! :-)
-Robert
Jeroen Rombouts
"Ben Peal" <ni...@ofdoom.com> schreef in bericht
news:1161169082.1...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> That's all I can think of for now. :)
>
Ben Peal
Jeroen Rombouts wrote:
> Any experience with Heart of Nizchetus in a twister deck?
I've never tried it myself. It might help accelerate getting set up
and might help you play the pieces in the right order. At the
same time, it might also slow you down a turn by having you
spend an action playing that instead of some other piece of
the puzzle. *shrug*
It's certainly worth trying out. :)
Er...wait. It's not worth it for _me_ to do it, 'cause people
will kill me for building another twister deck, or another
breed boon deck, or another Magic of the Smith deck, or
any deck that uses Obfuscate. :)
nnnrrrgh...the mere thought of not using Obfuscate...*twitch*
- Ben Peal
Jeroen
Ben Peal schreef:
> Jeroen Rombouts wrote:
> > Any experience with Heart of Nizchetus in a twister deck?
>
> I've never tried it myself. It might help accelerate getting set up
> and might help you play the pieces in the right order. At the
> same time, it might also slow you down a turn by having you
> spend an action playing that instead of some other piece of
> the puzzle. *shrug*
>
> It's certainly worth trying out. :)
I haven't bought any 3rth edition yet. And I barely get to play... But
I'm trying to make some decks. The reason I asked was because I was
playing with the idea of a Cesewayo no secrets deck. With the Heart
and waste management for putting a lot of Obediences to the bottom of
the deck...
Not really a twister, as such, but related.
Psi
It currently exists in my Mata Vote Twister, that and the Sybil's
Tongue / Inconnu Tutelage to seek it, well that and any other card to
make the deck work quicker. I'll play it in the tournament on Sunday
and see what it does.
Certainly it was very effective at stacking cards in my 70 card
Temptation / KRC deck (using Setites, but not Nehemiah). Problem was I
got jumped very quickly.
Joel
Slytherin
Aye, that he did. However, whenever Joel tries a "new" deck, we always
jump on him. Especially when he built it it to teach "me" a lesson
about using Temptation :)
Andy
Psi
I did at least tempt one of your vampires, just you pulled the one
blasted Toreador that could rush me. There are two new decks in the
offing too, maybe I'll play them Sunday...