Telepathic Tracking/Psyche Vs Unholy Penance

[The Name Forgotten]

This came up in play yesterday.

Minion A plays Unholy Penance (at PRE) to end combat and place the
card on the opposing Minion B.
Minion B plays Telepathic Tracking (at AUS) to continue combat.

Is Unholy Penance still placed on Minion B?

Or does it follow the Rotshreck and Catatonic Fear precedent and get
nullified?

I assume the same would apply if Psyche was played instead of
Telepathic Tracking.

[LSJ]

The Name Forgotten wrote:
> This came up in play yesterday.
>
> Minion A plays Unholy Penance (at PRE) to end combat and place the
> card on the opposing Minion B.
> Minion B plays Telepathic Tracking (at AUS) to continue combat.
>
> Is Unholy Penance still placed on Minion B?

No.

> Or does it follow the Rotshreck and Catatonic Fear precedent and get
> nullified?

It follows the general rule:
Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
new combat is started.

> I assume the same would apply if Psyche was played instead of
> Telepathic Tracking.

Correct.

[Thrall of Arika]

On Jul 4, 1:52 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> The Name Forgotten wrote:
> > This came up in play yesterday.
>
> > Minion A plays Unholy Penance (at PRE) to end combat and place the
> > card on the opposing Minion B.
> > Minion B plays Telepathic Tracking (at AUS) to continue combat.
>
> > Is Unholy Penance still placed on Minion B?
>
> No.

Really?

> > Or does it follow the Rotshreck and Catatonic Fear precedent and get
> > nullified?
>
> It follows the general rule:
> Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
> single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
> new combat is started.

But Unholy Presence is placed on the opposing vampire during strike
resolution, with no delay on effect as Catatonic Fear has. Or is it
the placement of the 'and place this card on the opposing minion' that
decides what is before and after? Once the words "Combat Ends" are
reached, combat is officially done (barring restarting via Psyche et
al) and everything else is considered after combat? Would it have to
be worded "Strike: Place this card on the opposing minion and end
combat" for it to still go on the other minion in this case?

Chris, Thrall of Arika

[Izaak]

>But Unholy Presence is placed on the opposing vampire during strike
>resolution, with no delay on effect as Catatonic Fear has. Or is it
>the placement of the 'and place this card on the opposing minion' that
>decides what is before and after? Once the words "Combat Ends" are
>reached, combat is officially done (barring restarting via Psyche et
>al) and everything else is considered after combat? Would it have to
>be worded "Strike: Place this card on the opposing minion and end
>combat" for it to still go on the other minion in this case?

Also, Catatoic Fear specifically says "deal 1 damage once combat ends".
Unholy Penance doesn't say "put this card on the opposing minion once combat
ends".

Related: It's my understanding if you dodge a Catatonic Fear, combat
obviously still ends, but you "dodge" the negative side-effect of getting 1
damage. Assuming my understanding is correct, would you be able to dodge, so
to speak, the placing of Unholy Penance (which is a negative side-effect of
the S:CE) on your minion?

[LSJ]

Izaak wrote:
>> But Unholy Presence is placed on the opposing vampire during strike
>> resolution, with no delay on effect as Catatonic Fear has. Or is it
>> the placement of the 'and place this card on the opposing minion' that
>> decides what is before and after? Once the words "Combat Ends" are
>> reached, combat is officially done (barring restarting via Psyche et
>> al) and everything else is considered after combat? Would it have to
>> be worded "Strike: Place this card on the opposing minion and end
>> combat" for it to still go on the other minion in this case?
>
> Also, Catatoic Fear specifically says "deal 1 damage once combat ends".
> Unholy Penance doesn't say "put this card on the opposing minion once combat
> ends".

Also, Majesty specifically says "this vampire untaps before combat ends". Unholy
Penance doesn't say "put this card on the opposing minion before combat ends."

Also, the RTR that established the general rule made special dispensation for
the "untap me" effects. It made no special dispensation for any other effects.
The other effects are handled by the general rule.

RTR 01-MAY-2002 wrote:
> Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
> single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a

> new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or
> Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply to
> end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to after
> combat (see Majesty ruling above).
End RTR quote

> Related: It's my understanding if you dodge a Catatonic Fear, combat
> obviously still ends, but you "dodge" the negative side-effect of getting 1
> damage. Assuming my understanding is correct, would you be able to dodge, so
> to speak, the placing of Unholy Penance (which is a negative side-effect of
> the S:CE) on your minion?

Dodge protects the dodger from the opposing minion's strike, yes.