(LSJ) Frenzy post 07-07-2007 question

[François]

Hello,

This one question might look rather dumb, but I'd like to check
anyway :

What happens if one plays Frenzy (Out-of-Turn.Frenzy.Only usable
before range is chosen. Choose a vampire in combat. In this round,
that vampire cannot use equipment and cannot use presses to end
combat. This round has a press, only usable to continue combat.) on a
vampire immune to Frenzy cards (Since this is possible since
07-07-2007 rulings) :

a) absolutely nothing for obvious reasons ?
or
b) the round has a press to continue, for that particular effect is
environmental and does not enter in the scope of the vampire's
immunity ?

Thank you,

Francois

[Blooded Sand]

If the vampire is immune to Frenzy, then he is not a valid target, and
the card cannot be played

[Damnans]

That is not correct.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f5ba0a7b96c43ff7?hl=en&

--
Damnans

http://www.almadrava.net/damnans
http://www.vtes.net
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/vteshispania/
http://iuturna.sorcery.net (IRC channel: #vtes)

[Bram Vink]

On Sep 2, 11:19 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> the card cannot be played.

This is wrong. There's a difference between immunity to an effect, or
being an illegal target.
For example, if a vampire is immune for non-aggravated damage, you may
still attempt to inflict it.

Same goes for frenzy cards. There are cards that prevent the playing
of frenzy cards (say, armor of caine's fury) and those that make you
immune to the effects of frenzy cards. Check cardtext for individual
cases ;)

The second option doesn't make it an illegal target.

Cheers,
Bram

[Bram Vink]

On Sep 2, 8:33 pm, François <francois.va...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would say the round having a press is not an effect targetting that
specific vampire, and this would not enter in the scope of the
vampire's immunity.

Cheers,
B

[LSJ]

b.

[floppyzedolfin]

Reading all your messages, a question has risen : Why would the
Frenzy's "Press" be "environmental", and not the Rötschreck's "Combat
ends" ?
It seems that both don't affect the specific vampire, and so don't
enter the scope of the vampire's immunity.

[LSJ]

floppyzedolfin wrote:
> Reading all your messages, a question has risen : Why would the
> Frenzy's "Press" be "environmental", and not the Rötschreck's "Combat
> ends" ?

It would.

> It seems that both don't affect the specific vampire, and so don't
> enter the scope of the vampire's immunity.

OK.

[floppyzedolfin]

So if a Rotschreck is played as a vampire attempts to inflict
aggravated damage to another vampire, combat will end, even if the
second vampire is immune to frenzy cards?

[Bram Vink]

That is indeed what follows from LSJ's answers.

Cheers,
Bram

[Kushiel]

On Sep 4, 1:58 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if a Rotschreck is played as a vampire attempts to inflict
> aggravated damage to another vampire, combat will end, even if the
> second vampire is immune to frenzy cards?

And if this is the case, does the vampire "targeted" by Rotschreck
still go to torpor after combat ends? (I hope not, as that mostly
wallpapers the mostly-already-wallpapered anti-frenzy cards.)

John Eno

[floppyzedolfin]

I don't think so. The "targeted" Vampire is immune to Frenzy cards, so
Rötschreck isn't "put on [him]".
So the "This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor" and so text doesn't
occur (since "this" refers to no vampire).

[Bram Vink]

On 4 sep, 22:21, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote:

If it affects the immune vampire, the immune vampire is immune to the
effects of the frenzy card. :P
So no. It doesn't change anything of the status of the vampire, which
is immune to the effects. It affects the combat. Ending it.

Cheers,
B