Misdirection tap x minions pay x blood

[Mirddes]

love this card, jyhad backed...
read at the secret library its now just tap 1 minion for 1 blood.

AM I SHIT BVRICKS?? has this card been ruined?

please confirm as i am of the belief that unless newer prints exist in a particular match that the cardtext IS the rules.

blooddolls, brainwashes, misdirections, masses of puny 1s and 2s... anyone got a card listing for decks that spring to mind?

[The Lasombra]

On Thursday, June 21, 2012 6:33:40 AM UTC-4, Mirddes wrote:

You'll likely get quicker responses if you take your questions to the player's forum, http://www.vekn.net

> love this card, jyhad backed...
> read at the secret library its now just tap 1 minion for 1 blood.

> AM I SHIT BVRICKS?? has this card been ruined?

The card was reprinted in the Camarilla Edition with the X replaced by a 1.

> please confirm as i am of the belief that unless newer prints exist in a particular match that the cardtext IS the rules.

Play how you want, but the tournament rules use the newest card text, which is 10 years old now. (Camarilla Edition was released in 2002.)

> blooddolls, brainwashes, misdirections, masses of puny 1s and 2s... anyone got a card listing for decks that spring to mind?

Yes.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/rgtcjdeckarchive
and
http://www.TheLasombra.com/decks.htm


Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com

[Mirddes]

real shame about the misdirections, i shall shed many a tear.
almost pointless without tap x

[Mirddes]

On Thursday, 21 June 2012 22:33:40 UTC+12, Mirddes wrote:

On Thursday, 21 June 2012 22:33:40 UTC+12, Mirddes wrote:

perhaps a new card with tap x minions for x+1 or x+2 blood is in order.
misdirections was intended to be x for x

[James Coupe]

Mirddes <mir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>perhaps a new card with tap x minions for x+1 or x+2 blood is in order.
>misdirections was intended to be x for x

Intentions are fine for designing a card; the card functions in the real
world, where it may prove to be too powerful.

Misdirection proved to be too powerful.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

[Mirddes]

On Wednesday, 27 June 2012 08:51:47 UTC+12, James Coupe wrote:
> Mirddes &lt;mir...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt;perhaps a new card with tap x minions for x+1 or x+2 blood is in order.
> &gt;misdirections was intended to be x for x

>
> Intentions are fine for designing a card; the card functions in the real
> world, where it may prove to be too powerful.
>
> Misdirection proved to be too powerful.
>
> --
> James Coupe
> PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
> EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
> 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Misdirections is a great card
The creators were right for creating is
the revisionist were correct for revising
i take issue only with how they revised
3X or 2X+2 would have been idea, balancing the card while retaining its original function of tapping X minions.

REPRINT pl0x

[James Coupe]

Mirddes <mir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>3X or 2X+2 would have been idea, balancing the card while retaining its original function of tapping X minions.
>
>REPRINT pl0x

So you want a reprint for a game that isn't in print, to turn a card
from being still reasonably useful (it turns up in tournament winning
decks reasonably often) to being complete garbage? Three or four pool
to tap a single minion is pretty much wallpaper.

Might as well just gather up every copy of Misdirection in the world and
set fire to it instead.


Given that it's taken you over a decade to notice the change, I'd submit
that your understanding of V:TES is somewhat out of date.

[Mirddes]

pay x blood to tap x minions with limit of 3 or 4 minions perhaps?


given that ive only known of vtes since 2007 i submit to you that it's only taken me half a decade to notice ;)

noob for life.

[Mirddes]

On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 04:05:29 UTC+12, Mirddes wrote:
> pay x blood to tap x minions with limit of 3 or 4 minions perhaps?
>
>

> given that ive only known of vtes since 2007 i submit to you that it&#39;s only taken me half a decade to notice ;)
>
> noob for life.

pay x blood to tap x minions where x does not exceed the number of methuselah currently in the game

pro'd it up for once id say

[Mirddes]

On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 04:08:01 UTC+12, Mirddes wrote:
> On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 04:05:29 UTC+12, Mirddes wrote:

> &gt; pay x blood to tap x minions with limit of 3 or 4 minions perhaps?
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; given that ive only known of vtes since 2007 i submit to you that it&amp;#39;s only taken me half a decade to notice ;)
> &gt;
> &gt; noob for life.

>
> pay x blood to tap x minions where x does not exceed the number of methuselah currently in the game
>

> pro&#39;d it up for once id say

pay 2X to tap x

[The Lasombra]

On Monday, July 16, 2012 4:44:53 PM UTC-4, Mirddes wrote:
> pay x blood to tap x minions with limit of 3 or 4 minions perhaps?

> pay 2X to tap x

Anarch Troublemaker taps 2 vampires for free.
(Also unique and comes with a built-in 1 turn delay.)

If your prey is leaving 3-4 vampires untapped, you were too slow and you should have ousted them before they had 4 to leave untapped. Consider more stealth including Faceless Night, or Consanguineous Condemnation, or similar minion based tech.

Taking the decision making away from your opponents doesn't make for an enjoyable game, you'd like to keep them for the next game.

Master cards that take choices away from your opponents are bad for the game, and Misdirection for more than 1 was one of the worst offenders.

[Mirddes]

Whitewolf? announced the end of development? do they hold exclusive rights or is there a chance it will be picked up again to further their movement into the print on demand business?

misdirections must become the following if there is a new set.

"pay 2X pool to tap x minions where x does not exceed the number of OTHER methuselah currently in the game"

paying 4 blood to get a game win seems fair, paying 6 t oust yoru prey also seems fair.

my playgroup honestly feels it ought to be 3X but as james astutely points out this would render the card 'wallpaper'.

in terms of taking choices away from opponents the increaSED COST WOULD DEFINITELY REDUCE the chance of tapping out 2 opponents for a sweep. say for example your prey and grand prey each have low pool and 3 minions out, tapping them all and hitting them for a few decent bleeds would gain you 12 pool and 2 victory points at the cost of 12 pool and not succeeding. the risk is definitely worth it, they would a sitting duck if their sweep is in any way unsucessful. Could be a nice GW if they pull it off though.|

and just to make sure you dont tap out all of the last guy's vamps, its almost as it is currently (double the price) if you and he are the last meth standing

as it stands i value misdirections almost as little as ascendance.

2 blood to tap 1 minion certianly seems fair, most decent combats cost more, especially if GW is at stake.
new card and keep misdirections as 1 for 1 would be everyone's best bet if its picked up for another set.

disclaimer: i have 5 jyhad backed misdirections id love to include in a deck.

what other master cards are good examples of bad ideas?

also is there a well maintained list of banned/altered cards?

[James Coupe]

Mirddes <mir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Whitewolf? announced the end of development?

Yes.

>misdirections must become the following if there is a new set.

No, it must not.

Misdirection tapping many minions was just bad. Give it up. Move on.

[Mirddes]

im afraid we must again differ on this crucial point

"pay 2X pool to tap x minions where x does not exceed the number of OTHER methuselah currently in the game" is fair

break down how such a change would be negative.

[Jozxyqk]

What's basically wrong with it is that you are arguing about the design of a
card that was changed 10 years ago; more expansions came out after this change
than before it, and the cards in those expansions were designed in the universe
where the Misdirection card text is as it currently is. Plenty of other "tap
effects" have been printed since then, which are balanced with the "1 pool to
tap 1 minion" text of this card.

Also, you're arguing on an effectively defunct usenet group, which means you
don't have much of an audience to argue with. If you really want to push the
point, try the forums at http://www.vekn.net/

You're making Ossian cry.

[James Coupe]

No, that's not how this works. If you want things to change, you have
to prove why your way is better.

Note that errata is very rarely issued with the sole objective of
improving poor cards. And Misdirection in its current form is not a
poor card - it turns up in more than a few tournament winning decks.

Of the 14 TWDA entries in June 2012, it turns up in 5 of them. That's a
pretty healthy percentage! It's pretty clearly already a decent card -
and since winning Methuselahs are happy to pay the price for the effect,
it seems like it's fairly costed too.

So it's a decent card, with a reasonable cost, played by winning
Methuselahs in strong decks. There's no need to change it.


Further, for the people currently using it to access a quick, cheap tap
of a minion, the cost has increased. The card is clearly worse for
them. Yet there is no current outcry that the card is broken, so that
seems an unwarranted change.


Since the card is good, well-costed and useful currently, and your
change seems harmful for questionable benefits, there really doesn't
seem to be any reason to change.



Please note that repeatedly asserting "This is fair" and "It MUST be
reprinted like this" is not a useful argument. If you want things to
change, *you* have to put in the effort.

[sca...@gmail.com]

these replies have made me very happy.

could i please have a list of tap cards and banned cards.

i truly feel the love :D

[The Lasombra]

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 8:47:39 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:

> could i please have a list of ... banned cards.

Banned cards are in the tournament rules.

http://www.vekn.net/index.php/tournament-rules

Section 4.1

4.1. Cards Allowed

All cards in a player's deck must be genuine Vampire: The Eternal Struggle or Jyhad cards or official V:EKN issued cards from the only authoritative source www.vekn.net. When using V:EKN issued cards they must be color printed on standard paper and inserted into opaque sleeves before another Vampire: The Eternal Struggle or Jyhad card, this requires opaque sleeves for the whole crypt and/or library.

If cards with distinct backs are used in the same deck (e.g., Jyhad and Vampire: The Eternal Struggle cards, or upside-down 3rd Edition cards and right-side up cards, or mis-cut cards) are used, in order to prevent a significant advantage, all cards from the different sets, printings, etc. must be of sufficiently mixed card type.

Banned List: The following cards are banned in all V:EKN tournaments:

Dramatic Upheaval (V:TES)
Edge Explosion (NoR)
Kindred Restructure (V:TES)
Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns)
Memories of Mortality (Ancient Hearts)
Protect Thine Own (Ancient Hearts)
The Return to Innocence (Ancient Hearts)
Succubus Club (V:TES)
Any cards that are usable only when playing for ante, including:
Cunctator Motion (V:TES)
High Stakes (V:TES)
Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns)

Note that rules cards from Nights of Reckoning are legal for V:EKN play in both Constructed and Limited formats.