Infernal Pact question
Cartman
to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
Thanx
The Lasombra
wrote:
>Can I "teach" a new discipline, granted to my !Tremere by an Infernal Pact,
>to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
No.
Infernal Pact does not grant the vampire the discipline at all.
It simply allows them to play cards that require the discipilne as
though they had it.
Sanguine Instruction requires the vampire to possess the discipline at
the superior level. It does not require a discipline to play, so is
unaffected by Infernal Pact's text.
Name: Infernal Pact
Choose a Discipline. The vampire with this card can play cards that
require that Discipline as though he or she has the superior version
of that Discipline.
Name: Sanguine Instruction
Choose a Discipline this vampire has at superior.
Also, you can play Kiss of Ra against a vampire with Infernal Pact
that has chosen Fortitude the same way you can against Ian Forestal.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
LSJ
>
> Can I "teach" a new discipline, granted to my !Tremere by an Infernal Pact,
> to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
Yes.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Cartman
> > Can I "teach" a new discipline, granted to my !Tremere by an Infernal
Pact,
> > to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
> Yes. (LSJ)
>
No. (Lasombra)
Halcyan 2
>Pact,
>> to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
>
>Yes.
As others have already noted, I believe you are mistaken on this one LSJ.
Halcyan 2
Darky
> Can I "teach" a new discipline, granted to my !Tremere by an Infernal Pact,
> to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
>
> Thanx
No, since sanguine instruction doesnt require the discipline you want
to teach, you cannot play that card as if you had the superior
version, so you can only play it as if you had your normal disciplines
-Bram Vink
XZealot
> so what?
>
> > > Can I "teach" a new discipline, granted to my !Tremere by an Infernal
> Pact,
> > > to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
>
> > Yes. (LSJ)
> >
>
> No. (Lasombra)
>
> Infernal Pact does not grant the vampire the discipline at all.
> It simply allows them to play cards that require the discipilne as
> though they had it.
>
> Sanguine Instruction requires the vampire to possess the discipline at
> the superior level. It does not require a discipline to play, so is
> unaffected by Infernal Pact's text.
Infernal Pact
Type(s): Master
Card Text:
Unique. Put this card on a Tremere antitribu you control. Choose a
Discipline. The vampire with this card can play cards that require that
Discipline as though he or she has the superior version of that Discipline.
Sanguine Instruction
Card Text:
Requires a ready vampire. +1 stealth action
Choose a Discipline this vampire has at superior. Put this card on a ready
vampire of the same clan as this acting vampire. The vampire with this card
has the normal level of the chosen Discipline. If the vampire already had
the Discipline, he or she now has the superior level of that Discipline. The
vampire's capacity increases by 1; the vampire is one generation older.
Cannot be played on a vampire with the superior version of the Discipline.
Yes, you can use the infernal pact to Sanguine Instruction another vampire.
There are several key phrases that one must observe in the wording of the
two cards.
The first key phrase is in infernal pact.
"The vampire with this card can play cards that require that Discipline as
though he or she has the superior version of that Discipline."
The second key phrase is in Sanguine instruction
"Choose a Discipline this vampire has at superior"
Infernal pact allows the playing of cards as thought that vampire had the
superior version of that discipline and Sanguine Instruction requires a
vampire with the specified discipline at superior. Infernal Pact satisfies
Sanguine Instruction because Infernal Familiar allows you to play Sanguine
Instruction as though he or she had the discipline at the superior version.
That is why LSJ is right.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Flux
Which doesn't imply a requirement. 'Requirement' (as far as IP is
concerned) is what shows on the left border of the card.
I think that SI could even be played by a vampire with no superior
disciplines at all, and the action could work if he somehow gained the
superior discipline before resolution (Absorb the Mind and Shadow Body,
for example).
A requirement, OTOH, is only checked when the card is played, and it
will generally resolve even if the vampire loses the discipline/title
required before resolution.
> Infernal pact allows the playing of cards as thought that vampire had
> the superior version of that discipline and Sanguine Instruction
> requires a vampire with the specified discipline at superior.
Except that SI doesn't require anything other than a ready vampire.
IP only works for cards that require a discipline - a vampire with IP
doesn't have the discipline at superior, he can only use those cards
that require the discipline 'as if'...
So, it won't work.
> Infernal Pact satisfies Sanguine Instruction because Infernal Familiar
> allows you to play Sanguine Instruction as though he or she had the
> discipline at the superior version.
>
> That is why LSJ is right.
Nope, LSJ is wrong (and therefore, only human) :)
He was likely confusing IP with Camarilla Vitae Slave (which does grant
a 'true' superior discipline).
Flux
LSJ
> Cartman wrote:
>
>>Can I "teach" a new discipline, granted to my !Tremere by an Infernal Pact,
>>to another one of my !Tremere with Sanguine Instruction?
>
>
> Yes.
As Lasombra notes, IP doesn't actually give the bearer the Discipline,
so the answer is "no".
Sorry for the mistake.
XZealot
"Flux" <fl...@netc.pt> wrote in message
news:b246j5$18l6av$1...@ID-121674.news.dfncis.de...
He satisfies Sanguine instruction because Sanguine Instruction is satisfied
by Infernal Familiar. It is pretty cut and dry.
> > Infernal Pact satisfies Sanguine Instruction because Infernal Familiar
> > allows you to play Sanguine Instruction as though he or she had the
> > discipline at the superior version.
> >
> > That is why LSJ is right.
>
> Nope, LSJ is wrong (and therefore, only human) :)
>
> He was likely confusing IP with Camarilla Vitae Slave (which does grant
> a 'true' superior discipline).
I doubt it. Scott doesn't work that way AFAIK.
The Lasombra
<x_ze...@cox-internet.com> wrote:
>He satisfies Sanguine instruction because Sanguine Instruction is satisfied
>by Infernal Familiar. It is pretty cut and dry.
That's why we're talking about Infernal _Pact_.
And you're right, it is cut and dry.
Infernal Familiar will not allow a vampire to use Sanguine Instruction
to teach another vampire a discipline, either.
Card text.
See LSJ's post of 2003-02-09
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3E469BB0.20303%40white-wolf.com
>> > Infernal Pact satisfies Sanguine Instruction because Infernal Familiar
>> > allows you to play Sanguine Instruction as though he or she had the
>> > discipline at the superior version.
>> > That is why LSJ is right.
>> Nope, LSJ is wrong (and therefore, only human) :)
>> He was likely confusing IP with Camarilla Vitae Slave (which does grant
>> a 'true' superior discipline).
>I doubt it. Scott doesn't work that way AFAIK.
You doubt that he was confused, or that he was wrong?
Again, see his post of today.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3E469BB0.20303%40white-wolf.com