Thoughts Betrayed Question

[Luis P. Duarte]

Here's the situation:
My predator tries an action;
I sucessful block;
We enter combat;
My predator plays a Thoughts Betrayed at superior.

Now the questions:
1. Can't i play no more combat cards until after combat?
2. Can i play another Thoughts Betrayed after he played his?
3. Can i play, for example, a Drawing Out The Beast?
4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
for it?
5. Can i play a Fortitude card to prevent damage?

Thanks a lot for your (future) answers.
.- Luis....@ip.pt (aka The Gothlord)
-----
http://pc-h1.dcea.fct.unl.pt/Gothic/Gothlord

[James Coupe]

In article <6g35ar$j59$1...@orca.ip.pt>, Luis P. Duarte <Luis....@ip.pt>
writes

>Here's the situation:
>My predator tries an action;
>I sucessful block;
>We enter combat;
>My predator plays a Thoughts Betrayed at superior.
>
>Now the questions:
>1. Can't i play no more combat cards until after combat?

No more combat cards until after combat
(watch those negative questions :)

>2. Can i play another Thoughts Betrayed after he played his?

No. The acting vampire always gets to play first. If he didn't play
one, you could tho.

>3. Can i play, for example, a Drawing Out The Beast?

No. No more combat cards until after combat.

>4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
>my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
>for it?

Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
just can't play combat cards from your hand.

Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.

Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.

>5. Can i play a Fortitude card to prevent damage?

No. It's a combat card. No more combat cards until after combat.

--

James Coupe (Prince of Mercia) Change nospam to obeah to reply

Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

[Sorrow]

>>4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
>>my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
>>for it?
>Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
>just can't play combat cards from your hand.
>Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
>Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.

Unless I'm missing something, Thought's Betrayed prevents you from
using *any* cards, not just combat cards...

Sorrow
---
I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am
anymore |--------------------------------
I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...?
anymore | you never seen anyone try to
I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[James Coupe]

In article <6g84ee$m...@argentina.earthlink.net>, Sorrow <cbo...@apdi.net>
writes

>>>4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
>>>my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
>>>for it?
>>Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
>>just can't play combat cards from your hand.
>>Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
>>Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.
>
>Unless I'm missing something, Thought's Betrayed prevents you from
>using *any* cards, not just combat cards...
>

"Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use any cards
until after combat."

Only pertinent errata is that cards in play (weapons, etc.) can be used
by the minion.

Rotschreck is *NOT* played by the minion, so cards like Rotschreck, the
torpor boon and so on which are played by the Methuselah should still be
playable. However, as always, LSJ has final say so.

[John Whelan]

In article <6g84ee$m...@argentina.earthlink.net>, "Sorrow" wrote:
>>>4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
>>>my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
>>>for it?
>>Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
>>just can't play combat cards from your hand.
>>Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
>>Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.
>
>Unless I'm missing something, Thought's Betrayed prevents you from
>using *any* cards, not just combat cards...

Right, but the "using" in this case means "playing". You can still use
cards that are already in play.

Normally, a minion in combat can only use combat cards. The TB
restriction applies only to the opposing minion. The methuselah could
still play a master card (like Frenzy or Rotschreck), and other minions
can still play cards (like Legacy of Power or Nosferatu Putrescence).
--
Lupus Australis
____ ____
\ \----/ /
|()__()|
__\ __ /__
/ __\()/__ \
|/ \==/ \|
| || |

[LSJ]

James Coupe wrote:
>
> In article <6g35ar$j59$1...@orca.ip.pt>, Luis P. Duarte <Luis....@ip.pt>
> writes
> >Here's the situation:
> >My predator tries an action;
> >I sucessful block;
> >We enter combat;
> >My predator plays a Thoughts Betrayed at superior.
> >
> >Now the questions:

James's answers are all correct.
To elaborate: once a THought's Betrayed has been played
at superior, the opposing minion cannoy play any cards.

If both minions want to play Thought's Betrayed (and
actually any time two players want to be the next
player to play an effect), the acting player goes first.

> >1. Can't i play no more combat cards until after combat?
>
> No more combat cards until after combat
> (watch those negative questions :)
>
> >2. Can i play another Thoughts Betrayed after he played his?
>
> No. The acting vampire always gets to play first. If he didn't play
> one, you could tho.
>
> >3. Can i play, for example, a Drawing Out The Beast?
>
> No. No more combat cards until after combat.
>

> >4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
> >my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
> >for it?
>
> Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
> just can't play combat cards from your hand.
>
> Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
>
> Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.

You could also play a combat card that isn't played by
your minion (anyone know what this card is?).

> >5. Can i play a Fortitude card to prevent damage?
>
> No. It's a combat card. No more combat cards until after combat.

--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

[LSJ]

Sorrow wrote:
>
> >>4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
> >>my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
> >>for it?
> >Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
> >just can't play combat cards from your hand.
> >Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
> >Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.
>

> Unless I'm missing something, Thought's Betrayed prevents you from
> using *any* cards, not just combat cards...

Thought's Betrayed superior prevents "the opposing minion" from
[playing] any cards.

The "using" was errata'ed to "playing" in RTR January 12, 1996.

The only cards that the opposing minion can "play" in combat
are combat cards - so these are the only cards prohibited by
Thought's Betrayed.

In particular, the opposing minion can use any cards in play
that he has access to, and the Methuselah can play Master
Out-of-Turn cards and/or use any cards in play she has access
to (Elysium, etc.)

[Robert F. Grau]

LSJ wrote:

> James's answers are all correct.
> To elaborate: once a THought's Betrayed has been played
> at superior, the opposing minion cannoy play any cards.

> <snip, snip>

> You could also play a combat card that isn't played by
> your minion (anyone know what this card is?).
>

Legacy of Power? (Technically it's a reaction, but it would hose a TB)

Rob Grau

[James Coupe]

In article <3528C4...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes

>> >4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
>> >my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
>> >for it?
>>
>> Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
>> just can't play combat cards from your hand.
>>
>> Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
>>
>> Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.
>

>You could also play a combat card that isn't played by
>your minion (anyone know what this card is?).

Erm, does Nosferatu Putresence count?

[LSJ]

In article <xSK$cHAzmR...@obeah.demon.co.uk>,

James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> In article <3528C4...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes
> >> >4. If i can't play no more combat cards, does that means that
> >> >my predator will do anything he wants and i can't do nothing
> >> >for it?
> >>
> >> Basically, yes. However, any cards which are IN PLAY can be used. You
> >> just can't play combat cards from your hand.
> >>
> >> Tap Mariel, Tap the Elysium, use a gun, flak jacket etc. etc.
> >>
> >> Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.
> >
> >You could also play a combat card that isn't played by
> >your minion (anyone know what this card is?).
>
> Erm, does Nosferatu Putresence count?

<ding>

That's the one - the only minion card that doesn't require a minion
to play it (only a minion to play it on).

--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

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[Luis P. Duarte]

LSJ wrote in message <3528C6...@wizards.com>...

>Thought's Betrayed superior prevents "the opposing minion" from
>[playing] any cards.
>
>The "using" was errata'ed to "playing" in RTR January 12, 1996.
>
>The only cards that the opposing minion can "play" in combat
>are combat cards - so these are the only cards prohibited by
>Thought's Betrayed.
>
>In particular, the opposing minion can use any cards in play
>that he has access to, and the Methuselah can play Master
>Out-of-Turn cards and/or use any cards in play she has access
>to (Elysium, etc.)

So he/she can use equipment?
For example: can he/she use the effect of some weapon that affects
hand strike?

Thanx!
.- Luis....@ip.pt
--------
http://pc-h1.dcea.fct.unl.pt/Gothic/Gothlord

[Karl and Sam]

LSJ wrote:

> You could also play a combat card that isn't played by
> your minion (anyone know what this card is?).

How about Legacy of Power??? Its a Reaction card but played during the
combat so I would think that qualifies.

Karl

[LSJ]

Luis P. Duarte wrote:
>
> LSJ wrote in message <3528C6...@wizards.com>...
> >Thought's Betrayed superior prevents "the opposing minion" from
> >[playing] any cards.
> >
> >The "using" was errata'ed to "playing" in RTR January 12, 1996.
> >
> >The only cards that the opposing minion can "play" in combat
> >are combat cards - so these are the only cards prohibited by
> >Thought's Betrayed.
> >
> >In particular, the opposing minion can use any cards in play
> >that he has access to, and the Methuselah can play Master
> >Out-of-Turn cards and/or use any cards in play she has access
> >to (Elysium, etc.)
> So he/she can use equipment?
> For example: can he/she use the effect of some weapon that affects
> hand strike?

That's what that "in particular" part means, yes.
What else could it mean?

[LSJ]

Karl and Sam wrote:
>
> LSJ wrote:

> > James Coupe wrote:
> > > Or you could play a non-combat card from your hadn eg Rotschreck.

Yes, since it is a non-combat card, as stated above.

More to the point, it is not played by the minion who is
affected by Thought's Betrayed (card text).

[John Whelan]

In article <6gd4qd$12o$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, LSJ wrote:

> James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >You could also play a combat card that isn't played by
>> >your minion (anyone know what this card is?).
>>

>> Erm, does Nosferatu Putresence count?
>
><ding>
>
>That's the one - the only minion card that doesn't require a minion
>to play it (only a minion to play it on).

Are you sure that's right? I assumed that Nosferatu Putrescence, since it
is a minion card, does in fact require a minion to play it (by
definition). Card text does not contradict this, but merely indicates
that whoever plays it need not be involved in the relevant combat.

"Usable even if you have no minions in combat" is not the same as saying
"Usable even if you have no minions."

Your interpretation seems to indicate that NP is really a wierd sort of
"out-of-phase" Master Card that does not cost a master phase action, and
not a minion card at all.

[LSJ]

In article <slrn6iom2j....@amanda.dorsai.org>,

"Am I sure?"

No. But I am sure of some other things:

* Only minions in combat can play combat cards.
* NosPutr says that you can play it even if you aren't involved in the
current combat (overriding the rule above).
* The "you" above is the Methuselah, not any of her minions. ("You" is
used for players, "this minion" is used for minions.)

The above, together, led me to beleive that NosPut was played as
some 'sort of "out-of-phase" Master Card that does not cost a
master phase action', as you put it.

A few other things I'm sure of:

* It's never been officially ruled on (except by me)
* It matters even less than if Black Cat can use Concealed Weapon
to equip with a Combat Shotgun. :-)

--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

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