Catatonic Fear Question
Jason Liang
1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards?
2) If used with Domain of Evernight or Daring the Dawn, the damage is normal
not aggravated right?
Cheers,
Jason Liang
LSJ
>
> Catatonic Fear does the damage after combat...
>
> 1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards?
No. Combat cards can only be played in combat.
> 2) If used with Domain of Evernight or Daring the Dawn, the damage is normal
> not aggravated right?
Right.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Brian
> >
> > 1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards?
>
> No. Combat cards can only be played in combat.
What about the combat cards "dodge" or another S:CE? Don't they
prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging
minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat?
Jon Stahler
"Brian" <firstco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:80bafd85.02031...@posting.google.com...
I don't know how clearly I've explained this, but here goes.
You will still take the damage in both instances. If the damage was handled
during normal damage resolution phase of combat, then dodging the strike to
avoid the damage would hold. But the damage from Catatonic Fear comes after
combat ends. So, if you dodge the strike, you've only dodged the strike,
not the after affects established by the strike (the opposing minions strike
of "combat ends" was successful).
Similarly, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if both of you
end combat. The effect of causing one damage to the opposing minion after
combat has already been established for his strike. Therefore, you're
ending combat also meets the requirements of his strike and you take the
damage after combat ends.
LSJ
1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects
and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively.
2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998]
Brian
> > prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging
> > minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat?
>
> 1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects
> and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively.
>
So, then, do they only prevent strike effects in combat?
> 2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998]
Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, Marianna Dodges. Combat ends, Marianna
takes 1.
Correct?
Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, so does Marianna. Combat ends, both
vampires take 1.
Correct?
If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen
in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a
strike effect to me.
LSJ
>
> > > What about the combat cards "dodge" or another S:CE? Don't they
> > > prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging
> > > minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat?
> >
> > 1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects
> > and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively.
>
> So, then, do they only prevent strike effects in combat?
They are combat cards. They can only be played in combat.
If they resolve, their effects are applied.
> > 2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998]
>
> Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, Marianna Dodges. Combat ends, Marianna
> takes 1.
>
> Correct?
Yes.
> Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, so does Marianna. Combat ends, both
> vampires take 1.
>
> Correct?
Yes.
> If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen
> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a
> strike effect to me.
?
Not following you here, sorry.
CurtAdams
>> If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen
>> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a
>> strike effect to me.
>
>?
>Not following you here, sorry.
From just looking at the card, it's unclear whether it's
Strike: [ combat ends, and inflict 1 damage]
or
[Strike: combat ends,] and inflict 1 damage.
This is a generic problem on strike cards with complex effects;
what's part of the strike and what isn't? This should probably be handled by a
wording convention, like having a period between
strike and non-strike effect, or by the "make a strike" wording
(which IMO should be "minion makes a xx strike" rather than
"make a xx strike" since the latter might indicate an additional
card to deliver the specified strike is needed. Currently it's
all hand strikes, I think, so it doesn't yet matter)
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
"It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson
LSJ
Still not seeing the problem, but if the solution is:
"The damage is a strike effect"
(which is a true statement in any event), then OK.
Brian
> > >> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a
> > >> strike effect to me.
> > >
> > >?
> > >Not following you here, sorry.
OK, I figured it out. Dodge doesn't resolve against Catatonic Fear,
so whether the 1 damage is a strike effect or not is irrelevant.
What I don't understand is, if two combatants each play Catatonic Fear
(sup), don't they each prevent the other's strike from resolving, and
thus they shouldn't take the 1 damage? In fact, if each's effect is
"you don't get an effect", isn't that a paradox, one canceling the
other's cancel and vice-versa? Kinda like
A: B is false. B takes 1 damage.
B: A is false. A takes 1 damage.
Which is to be believed?
LSJ
>
> > > >> If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen
> > > >> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a
> > > >> strike effect to me.
> > > >
> > > >?
> > > >Not following you here, sorry.
>
> OK, I figured it out. Dodge doesn't resolve against Catatonic Fear,
> so whether the 1 damage is a strike effect or not is irrelevant.
>
> What I don't understand is, if two combatants each play Catatonic Fear
> (sup), don't they each prevent the other's strike from resolving, and
> thus they shouldn't take the 1 damage? In fact, if each's effect is
No. Both S:CE resolve at the same time (strikes resolve simultaneously
if they're the same "type" - S:CE, Dodge, FS, or other).
> "you don't get an effect", isn't that a paradox, one canceling the
> other's cancel and vice-versa? Kinda like
>
> A: B is false. B takes 1 damage.
> B: A is false. A takes 1 damage.
>
> Which is to be believed?
A and B take one damage.
Brian
> if they're the same "type" - S:CE, Dodge, FS, or other).
>
> > "you don't get an effect", isn't that a paradox, one canceling the
> > other's cancel and vice-versa? Kinda like
> >
> > A: B is false. B takes 1 damage.
> > B: A is false. A takes 1 damage.
> >
> > Which is to be believed?
>
> A and B take one damage.
So then, S:CE does not cancel an opposing strike, it just happens
first, ending combat, which happens to neutralize all non-S:CE
strikes, right?
LSJ
> So then, S:CE does not cancel an opposing strike, it just happens
> first, ending combat, which happens to neutralize all non-S:CE
> strikes, right?
Right.
See "Combat Ends" in 6.4.5 for more.