Set's Call + Slave Mechanic
ira...@gmail.com
If a Tremere employs a retainer, a vamp with ser blocks and play's
Set's Call, can the Slave mechanic trigger? I believe the answer is
yes, because the Slave mechanic triggers on a block, as does Set's
Call.
So I think the correct sequence is:
1) Tremere attempts to recruit a retainer.
2) Ser vamp blocks.
3) Tremere's Meth chooses to use Slave mechanic or not.
4) Set's Call is played either way. Combat does not occur either way,
due to card text on Set's Call.
Correct?
Thanks,
Ira
Name: Set's Call
[FN:R2]
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Serpentis
[ser] Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an employ
retainer action (play before combat). The action is successful (and
the cost is paid), but this reacting vampire takes control of the
retainer. Combat does not occur.
[SER] As above, but usable when a recruit ally action is blocked. You
take control of the ally.
http://white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/
11. Special Terms
Slave: Some minions are identified as slaves to a specified clan. A
slave cannot take a directed action if his controller doesn’t control
a ready member of the specified clan. Also, if a member of the
specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the
controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the
acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking
minion instead.
LSJ
> Hello LSJ,
>
> If a Tremere employs a retainer, a vamp with ser blocks and play's
> Set's Call, can the Slave mechanic trigger? I believe the answer is
> yes, because the Slave mechanic triggers on a block, as does Set's
> Call.
>
> So I think the correct sequence is:
> 1) Tremere attempts to recruit a retainer.
> 2) Ser vamp blocks.
> 3) Tremere's Meth chooses to use Slave mechanic or not.
> 4) Set's Call is played either way. Combat does not occur either way,
> due to card text on Set's Call.
>
> Correct?
Correct.
LSJ
> ira...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hello LSJ,
>>
>> If a Tremere employs a retainer, a vamp with ser blocks and play's
>> Set's Call, can the Slave mechanic trigger? I believe the answer is
>> yes, because the Slave mechanic triggers on a block, as does Set's
>> Call.
>>
>> So I think the correct sequence is:
>> 1) Tremere attempts to recruit a retainer.
>> 2) Ser vamp blocks.
>> 3) Tremere's Meth chooses to use Slave mechanic or not.
>> 4) Set's Call is played either way. Combat does not occur either way,
>> due to card text on Set's Call.
>>
>> Correct?
>
> Correct.
TBPC: The block combat does not occur either way, due to card text on Set's Call
and rules text for Slaves.
The Slave combat will occur as normal, if the Tremere's Meth chose to use the
Slave mechanic.
Salem
> LSJ wrote:
>> ira...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Hello LSJ,
>>>
>>> If a Tremere employs a retainer, a vamp with ser blocks and play's
>>> Set's Call, can the Slave mechanic trigger? I believe the answer is
>>> yes, because the Slave mechanic triggers on a block, as does Set's
>>> Call.
>>>
>>> So I think the correct sequence is:
>>> 1) Tremere attempts to recruit a retainer.
>>> 2) Ser vamp blocks.
>>> 3) Tremere's Meth chooses to use Slave mechanic or not.
>>> 4) Set's Call is played either way. Combat does not occur either way,
>>> due to card text on Set's Call.
>>>
>>> Correct?
>>
>> Correct.
>
> TBPC: The block combat does not occur either way, due to card text on
> Set's Call and rules text for Slaves.
>
> The Slave combat will occur as normal, if the Tremere's Meth chose to
> use the Slave mechanic.
does the playing of Set's Call have to wait for the slave combat to
finish first?
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
LSJ
No. Can't wait, in fact. Card text.
ira...@gmail.com
> LSJ wrote:
> TBPC: The block combat does not occur either way, due to card text on Set's Call
> and rules text for Slaves.
>
> The Slave combat will occur as normal, if the Tremere's Meth chose to use the
> Slave mechanic.
Can you explain the logic of this answer in more detail, so I can
apply the correct logic to similar, future situations? My point of
confusion is that Set's Call negates the combat that is about to
occur, and doesn't specify acting minion (like Obedience does.) The
slave mechanic says that there's a different combat "instead", which
made me think that it replaces the normal combat and is still affected
by cards that effect the combat.
I guess the logic is that Set's Call is talking about the combat
between acting and blocking minion only, and that's the assumption
unless otherwise stated by card text.
If I played Mental Maze after Set's Call - does the Slave Combat still
occur in that case?
Thanks,
Ira
Mental Maze
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Obfuscate
Cost: 1 blood
Card Text:
Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or a younger
vampire (play before combat, if any).
[obf] End the action (with no combat). If this blocking minion is a
Follower of Set, this card costs 1 less blood.
[OBF] As above, and do not tap this blocking vampire.
Salem
Really? I was assuming the combat Set's Call was referring to was the
block-combat. The slave rule replaces the block-combat with a 'tap the
slave and have them enter combat'. I wouldn't have thought you could
interrupt the resolution of that effect (the slave rule kicking in) with
another effect (playing Set's Call) without specific text to allow it,
which Set's Call doesn't seem to have (assuming the combat referred to
is the block-combat).
If the combat referred to by Set's Call (SC) _isn't_ the block combat,
and is just any combat after a employ/recruit is blocked, how about:
Acting minion A employs a retainer, is blocked by B. They have a combat,
then one of them plays Psyche!. Can SC be played now?
A is blocked by B. They have a fight. Then C plays Hidden Lurker. Can SC
be played now?
Name: Set's Call
[FN:R2]
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Serpentis
[ser] Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an employ
retainer action (play before combat). The action is successful (and
the cost is paid), but this reacting vampire takes control of the
retainer. Combat does not occur.
[SER] As above, but usable when a recruit ally action is blocked. You
take control of the ally.
http://white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/
11. Special Terms
Slave: Some minions are identified as slaves to a specified clan. A
slave cannot take a directed action if his controller doesn’t control
a ready member of the specified clan. Also, if a member of the
specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the
controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the
acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking
minion instead.
LSJ
> On Sep 4, 5:20 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> LSJ wrote:
>> TBPC: The block combat does not occur either way, due to card text on Set's Call
>> and rules text for Slaves.
>>
>> The Slave combat will occur as normal, if the Tremere's Meth chose to use the
>> Slave mechanic.
>
> Can you explain the logic of this answer in more detail, so I can
> apply the correct logic to similar, future situations? My point of
> confusion is that Set's Call negates the combat that is about to
> occur, and doesn't specify acting minion (like Obedience does.)
No. It negates the combat it knows about. The one that is already canceled by
the invocation of the slave rule.
> The
> slave mechanic says that there's a different combat "instead", which
> made me think that it replaces the normal combat and is still affected
> by cards that effect the combat.
No. It canceled that "normal" combat. If the slave combat were affected by
effects applied to the normal combat, the slave combat would be canceled by the
slave rule's own effect on the normal combat.
> I guess the logic is that Set's Call is talking about the combat
> between acting and blocking minion only, and that's the assumption
> unless otherwise stated by card text.
>
> If I played Mental Maze after Set's Call - does the Slave Combat still
> occur in that case?
Combat cannot occur after the action ends.
LSJ
Yes.
> The slave rule replaces the block-combat with a 'tap the
> slave and have them enter combat'. I wouldn't have thought you could
> interrupt the resolution of that effect (the slave rule kicking in) with
> another effect (playing Set's Call) without specific text to allow it,
> which Set's Call doesn't seem to have (assuming the combat referred to
> is the block-combat).
The slave combat takes place in the same timing area the normal block-combat
would have taken.
> If the combat referred to by Set's Call (SC) _isn't_ the block combat,
> and is just any combat after a employ/recruit is blocked, how about:
>
> Acting minion A employs a retainer, is blocked by B. They have a combat,
> then one of them plays Psyche!. Can SC be played now?
No.
> A is blocked by B. They have a fight. Then C plays Hidden Lurker. Can SC
> be played now?
No.
ira...@gmail.com
> ira...@gmail.com wrote:
> > If I played Mental Maze after Set's Call - does the Slave Combat still
> > occur in that case?
>
> Combat cannot occur after the action ends.
I enjoy the subtle and elegant game design that cards like Mental Maze
and Obedience, which seem similar on the surface, are interestingly
different. The Ally difference is obvious, and I think it's cool that
there is another difference with the Slave mechanic.
Thanks for all the helpful answers, LSJ, and for everything you do to
keep this game great. I do not take for granted all the effort you
put into this, and I really appreciate it!
Ira