Makes Lovely Julienne Ogres....
be...@sonic.net
I just had an interesting experience... I'm playing a wizard,
26th level, on DL 17. I've never yet won the game, and I want
this one to be the one, so I'm trying to be very careful.
My speed is usually -1 to -3, which has to do with the 11 strength
I haven't been able to get over yet, so I'm being cautious, descending
very slowly, and sticking to corridors. The best compensation I've
found for the low speed so far is stealth. The character has leather
armor of elvenkind, a cloak of stealth, and some really nice boots of
stealth, for a total of +11 to stealth. That usually means monsters
don't even wake up until I'm in the room with them, and I often get
chances to back off to a corridor where I can control the fight a
little better. I usually wear a ring of free action and a ring of
protection, but depending on what I'm fighting, I sometimes swap one
of them out for a ring of damage +9.
I've found several COOL weapons, but due to the "you have trouble
wielding such a heavy weapon" penalties, I've had to pass them by
so far. It really hurts to sell a +10 +7 bastard sword of *Dragon
Slaying* when you're still using a plain old +10 +9 short sword.
When I got it, it was a cursed -2 -3 short sword but that's another
story.... Anyway, since getting my short sword up to +10 +9, I've
been buying scrolls of enchant weapon to-hit and to-dam and
stashing them in my house against the day when I found a weapon
of some nice ability, which I could use, that otherwise didn't
have very high pluses to hit or damage. Good weapons have been very
scarce this game, and I have found zero artifacts or magic light
sources.
One of my biggest recurring problems, to date, has been herds of
Ogres. They have a nasty tendency to do huge damage and it's
really hard to take them down with the spells I've had. Each of
them can eat four ice bolts, and they usually come in batches of
12 or more, so I just don't have enough mana unless I can break
the groups up using corners and corridors. And I can't stand up
to them toe-to-toe because with the damage they do, and my low
speed, I'd die. But last night, on hitting level 26, I finally
learned "haste self" in the fourth spell-book, *and* found a +3 +5
flail of giant slaying. My next trip upstairs, and it's a flail
of giant slaying +9 +9, and I finally ditched the old short
sword.
So, armed with my new flail and my new spell, and with my load
lightened to only a -1 speed, I read a Word of Recall.... and
arrive in the middle of a 5x8 room with 12 Black Ogres on one
side and 15 Black Ogres on the other side in it!!! There's a
door in one end of the room, but it's closed, and there's 12
ogres between me and the door. Can I get to it, open it, and
get through it without dying? At this moment, I was thinking,
'Random Number God, I hate you.' Nothing that paralyzes or
summons in here, and this is going to be a standup fight, so I
switch out the ring of Free Action and put on the ring of Damage.
One Ogre woke up when I wielded the ring, but he's in a back row
and can't get to me.
I got up from the keyboard and did something else for a few
minutes to calm down, then I came back, checked through my
inventory, and decided that I would give the "haste" thing a shot,
smack any that got between me and the door with the flail, and
maybe I can make it to the door but if not I'll see how many I
can take down before being forced to teleport. I don't want
to teleport on an unexplored level, but I'm figuring I'll
probably be forced to here.
"Haste" once, and it fails, and three more ogres wake up. Shit,
I'm down lots of mana all of a sudden. I consider teleport and
blink, but decide "haste" is worth one more try. Blink, if it
doesn't get you clear of the room, tends to wake up a whole lot
of monsters you'd rather stayed asleep. "Haste" again, and this
time it works. My speed goes to +9, but a nearby Ogre smacks me
for *30* points of damage in one shot. OW!
So after checking with the '*' key to see which of the ones close
to me are awake, I smack one of them with the flail. I get a
"the Ogre flees in panic" message - first time I've seen one of
_those_ without taking four hits first. And I don't get pounded
by the other one that's awake next to me, because, for once, I'm
faster than they are. So I smack the other awake one. He flees
in panic too, but he can't go anywhere so he turns to fight.
But he misses me, and the second shot with the flail kills him.
I wound up dancing through that batch of ogres doing my best "la
machine" impression. It took care, keeping track of which ones
were awake, and being careful to let them lose an action by coming
to me so I could attack them twice. A couple times there was nobody
adjacent when it was my action so I used a frost bolt instead of
stepping closer and giving them a chance to hit. It often took me
a full minute of inspecting the area, and keeping close track of
which of them had moved on which of my phases between each character
movement - but I polished off the entire tribe of them and only
got hit six times before the speed spell wore off.
Wow. I think I like my new flail. I think I like my new spell.
If only their treasure drop was better, I might even start liking
Ogres now. This rocks.
Bear
Foo
>
> I just had an interesting experience... I'm playing a wizard,
> 26th level, on DL 17. I've never yet won the game, and I want
> this one to be the one, so I'm trying to be very careful.
>
> My speed is usually -1 to -3, which has to do with the 11 strength
BAD. EVIL. WRONG. Come on, I routinely play mages with <11 STR... but
speed of -1 is risky, -2 is dangerous, and -3 is deadly. :)
Well, I *suppose* if you Haste Self a LOT... :)
> Wow. I think I like my new flail. I think I like my new spell.
> If only their treasure drop was better, I might even start liking
> Ogres now. This rocks.
Flail. Isn't that a bit heavy for general use? :)
bomb3_16
> Slaying* when you're still using a plain old +10 +9 short sword.
If it helps you feel better, you're not going to meet that many powerful dragons
at dungeon level 17...
Good weapons have been very
> scarce this game, and I have found zero artifacts or magic light
> sources.
Again, you're only at lvl 17... Things'll pick up at 25-35.
>
> So, armed with my new flail and my new spell, and with my load
> lightened to only a -1 speed, I read a Word of Recall.... and
> arrive in the middle of a 5x8 room with 12 Black Ogres on one
> side and 15 Black Ogres on the other side in it!!! There's a
> door in one end of the room, but it's closed, and there's 12
> ogres between me and the door. Can I get to it, open it, and
> get through it without dying?
Why didn't you teleport yourself away?
You should also consider staffs of sleep and slow monsters... If you're worried
about your speed vs. groups, it helps not to just haste yourself but to also
hinder them. Sleeping, slowing or confusing the first ogre/orc/troll in a
corridor will also hinder all those behind them.
And finally- start using a bow. You're a mage. Melee should be your last
resort.
be...@sonic.net
>
> be...@sonic.net wrote:
> >
> > I just had an interesting experience... I'm playing a wizard,
> > 26th level, on DL 17. I've never yet won the game, and I want
> > this one to be the one, so I'm trying to be very careful.
> >
> > My speed is usually -1 to -3, which has to do with the 11 strength
>
> BAD. EVIL. WRONG. Come on, I routinely play mages with <11 STR... but
> speed of -1 is risky, -2 is dangerous, and -3 is deadly. :)
Perhaps... But my normal style of play really is pretty effective
at keeping me out of crowds. This type of situation (arriving in
a small room full of nasties with no detection/warning/planning/
setting up corridor traps using tunneling/etc) is very atypical.
> Well, I *suppose* if you Haste Self a LOT... :)
:-) I think it's going to become one of my favorite spells.
> Flail. Isn't that a bit heavy for general use? :)
maybe.. depending on what you think is acceptable for speed.
I like having a decent weapon and a longbow and 2 of each of the
first 4 spellbooks, plus the brass lantern and a few emergency
potions, so I just can't get to better speed than -1. Given
that I'm -1 even with a lighter weapon, I go for the heavier
weapon.
Bear
be...@sonic.net
> > So, armed with my new flail and my new spell, and with my load
> > lightened to only a -1 speed, I read a Word of Recall.... and
> > arrive in the middle of a 5x8 room with 12 Black Ogres on one
> > side and 15 Black Ogres on the other side in it!!! There's a
> > door in one end of the room, but it's closed, and there's 12
> > ogres between me and the door. Can I get to it, open it, and
> > get through it without dying?
>
> Why didn't you teleport yourself away?
Excessive Paranoia? I've only used teleport a very few times, and
so far it's been unreliable, expensive in mana, and prone to put
me into worse and more desperate situations than I was getting out
of.
Example: Teleporting from an open room where there were a dozen
black orcs firing bows at me and more pouring in through both doors
a few nights ago didn't work the first two times, then when it did
work it landed me, low on mana and hitpoints, in a room full of
gnome mages who instantly summoned four umber hulks and a xorn! I'm
not resistant to confusion, so this just isn't an option. So I
teleported again, taking myself down to just six mana, and found
myself in the room that the black orcs had been coming *from!* I
managed to get to a corridor and into a hideyhole I'd dug earlier,
which saved my butt -- but before I'd rested even half my mana back,
the umber hulks and xorn came halfway across the dungeon to get me
while opening a *wide* corridor (ie, one that I can't use for good
tactical advantage very easily) for every other monster in the
dungeon to follow them. AAARGH! After a few experiences like
this, teleport is *not* my favorite spell.
I'm almost convinced there's code somewhere in there that looks
for the single most horrible place on the map to put a desperate
character who's been forced to teleport. Either that or the
Random Number God is taking this whole thing kind of personally.
> You should also consider staffs of sleep and slow monsters... If you're worried
> about your speed vs. groups, it helps not to just haste yourself but to also
> hinder them. Sleeping, slowing or confusing the first ogre/orc/troll in a
> corridor will also hinder all those behind them.
Oh, yeah, I do that a lot. In corridors, "confuse" and "slow monster"
allow me to completely dominate a fight. It's a shame I wasn't in a
corridor. But those aren't useful against groups because they only
affect one monster at a time. Do the staves affect more than one at
a time? If so, they're better than I've been thinking of them as or
using them as. I'd been thinking of them as just really heavy wands
and using/valuing them accordingly (ie, avoiding groups in the open
just as assiduously as if only armed with wands...).
I frequently have two or three staves when I go back upstairs,
but with an 11 strength, the speed penalties for carrying staves
are fairly serious. I sometimes carry one with me in the dungeon,
but never more than one at a time until I'm getting ready to go
upstairs. But if they're effective against groups maybe I'll take
the extra -1 speed and start carrying one when I go down.
> And finally- start using a bow. You're a mage. Melee should be your last
> resort.
I do use a bow. A lot. At range, and in corridors, it's great.
The whole point of a bow, as far as I'm concerned, is to allow me
to stay out of range of them hitting me. In a 5x8 room with 27
Ogres, that didn't seem very likely. The flail of giant slaying
(vs. Ogres, which are giants) + Ring of Damage seemed like a better
choice than the bow for a situation where I didn't figure I'd be
able to be out of range anyway. Anyway, I know from experience
that Ogres can eat five or six arrows each; frost bolts are
better as long as I'm not running out of mana.
Bear
bomb3_16
Get staves of teleportation if you can afford them and scrolls if you can find
them (they're in the black market a lot.) I don't know if it's the rule but
you usually get the first move wherever you land- if it looks scary, teleport
again. If the gnome mages summon, teleport again (unless your speed is dismal,
the summoned monsters won't attack until after you move.) It's too risky to
rely on teleport spells, you should always have a backup plan and scrolls are
foolproof unless you're blind or confused, staves can even be used then.
>
> > You should also consider staffs of sleep and slow monsters... If you're worried
> > about your speed vs. groups, it helps not to just haste yourself but to also
> > hinder them. Sleeping, slowing or confusing the first ogre/orc/troll in a
> > corridor will also hinder all those behind them.
>
> Oh, yeah, I do that a lot. In corridors, "confuse" and "slow monster"
> allow me to completely dominate a fight. It's a shame I wasn't in a
> corridor. But those aren't useful against groups because they only
> affect one monster at a time. Do the staves affect more than one at
> a time? If so, they're better than I've been thinking of them as or
> using them as. I'd been thinking of them as just really heavy wands
> and using/valuing them accordingly (ie, avoiding groups in the open
> just as assiduously as if only armed with wands...).
Staves affect all monsters in the area- though they get a saving throw so not
all will be affected. The downside is, I think that if they're asleep using a
staff of sleep/slow will wake the monsters up (I may be wrong on that one)
>
> I frequently have two or three staves when I go back upstairs,
> but with an 11 strength, the speed penalties for carrying staves
> are fairly serious. I sometimes carry one with me in the dungeon,
> but never more than one at a time until I'm getting ready to go
> upstairs. But if they're effective against groups maybe I'll take
> the extra -1 speed and start carrying one when I go down.
>
> > And finally- start using a bow. You're a mage. Melee should be your last
> > resort.
>
> I do use a bow. A lot. At range, and in corridors, it's great.
> The whole point of a bow, as far as I'm concerned, is to allow me
> to stay out of range of them hitting me. In a 5x8 room with 27
> Ogres, that didn't seem very likely. The flail of giant slaying
> (vs. Ogres, which are giants) + Ring of Damage seemed like a better
> choice than the bow for a situation where I didn't figure I'd be
> able to be out of range anyway. Anyway, I know from experience
> that Ogres can eat five or six arrows each; frost bolts are
> better as long as I'm not running out of mana.
>
Try using phase door scrolls and spells in tandem with arrows/bolts- shoot, when
the monster gets close, phase somewhere else and keep firing until they're
close again. Like teleport, if you phase into a bad spot you usually get the
first move to phase again.
The good thing about arrows is they don't drain mana. And they're cheap if you
need to drop them to speed up. And it's good to just get in practice of using
them because later when you have better bows and enchantment spells bows&arrows
can be devastating.
Oh and if you find a ring of strength, dump the damage ring. With a mage's AC
(and the speed penalty for strength) it's just too risky to melee. And
consider dumping the flail, as much as you want to kill the ogres... It's way
too heavy a weapon for you, and again melee is too risky.
You may be able to deal damage more quickly with the flail and ring... But the
monsters can also damage you.
Take my advice with a grain of salt because I'm not an expert, I've just learned
all these lessons the hard way.
Chris Wesling
>
> On 2003-05-20 08:04:55, be...@sonic.net wrote:
> >
> > able to be out of range anyway. Anyway, I know from experience
> > that Ogres can eat five or six arrows each; frost bolts are
> > better as long as I'm not running out of mana.
>
> cheap if you need to drop them to speed up. And it's good to just
> get in practice of using them because later when you have better
> bows and enchantment spells bows&arrows can be devastating.
What really helps is to enchant the bows, not the arrows. With a
longbow's x3 multiplier, each +1 to damage that you put on the bow adds
*three* points of damage to every arrow you shoot. By the time you get
the bow up to +9 damage, you're doing 27 points more damage per arrow,
even with +0,+0 arrows. Since arrows are 1d4, you're doing more than 7
times as much damage per arrow. Ogres that took five or six arrows to
kill before should take only one or two arrows at that rate.
Chris W.
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Chris Wesling
>
> bomb3_16 wrote:
> >
> > On 2003-05-20 08:04:55, be...@sonic.net wrote:
> > >
> > > able to be out of range anyway. Anyway, I know from experience
> > > that Ogres can eat five or six arrows each; frost bolts are
> > > better as long as I'm not running out of mana.
> >
> > The good thing about arrows is they don't drain mana. And they're
> > cheap if you need to drop them to speed up. And it's good to just
> > get in practice of using them because later when you have better
> > bows and enchantment spells bows&arrows can be devastating.
>
> What really helps is to enchant the bows, not the arrows. With a
> longbow's x3 multiplier, each +1 to damage that you put on the bow adds
> *three* points of damage to every arrow you shoot. By the time you get
> the bow up to +9 damage, you're doing 27 points more damage per arrow,
> even with +0,+0 arrows. Since arrows are 1d4, you're doing more than 7
> times as much damage per arrow. Ogres that took five or six arrows to
> kill before should take only one or two arrows at that rate.
>
> Chris W.
> --
> Replace the spamblock with sbcglobal <dot> net to email me.
Whoops. Sorry about the sigfile explosion... 8-(
Chris W.
Andrew Fenton
Chris Wesling wrote:
> Whoops. Sorry about the sigfile explosion... 8-(
Beware the dangerous Sigfile! It breeds explosively, it can crawl on you to
devour bandwidth... Coming soon to a variant near you!