A, B, C and F-list '90s Pins
rudy gulp ptooie
"A-list" games. That got me thinking...what is generally
considered the "A-list" games of the 1990s (WPC only)? After that,
what are the ones just below that in a "B-list"? What about the
"C-list"? Is there an "F-list"?
Obviously, these are open to debate (and I encourage that), but
here's what I came up with. I kept each category to 10 pins. Please
note that these are not my personal rankings, but what I think the
collecting community (RGP) generally think of these pins and how they
are "graded" into an overall category based on demand, rarity,
price, and collectibility. In other words, if it was just my top 10
list, I would have WW and Shadow listed as "A" games, but I don't
think the majority feel that those 2 titles are in the same class as
MM, TZ, etc. (and their lower selling prices also point to this fact).
Here's the breakdown:
A-list: MM, TZ, AFM, FH, TAF, CV, CC, MB, SC, IJ
B-list: CFTBL, STTNG, WW, Shadow, SS, NGG, TOM, TOTAN, WCS94, G:HS
C-list: BSD, CP, JY, RS, T2, JD, DM, FT, NF, HD ('91)
F-list: DH, Hurricane, Popeye
Any thoughts/comments?
Ted
azpinlawyer
4way
STTNG never gets enough respect. I will take it every time over many
of the recognized A-list games. Also, Champion Pub is a B or C game
definitely, -Jeff.
Mike Muglia
I also don't think I agree with FH being an A-list game.
For me, any game I own is on the A-list because I get the enjoyment of
playing it anytime I want.
Mike
Abby Normal
I wouldn't call it an F either.
Mike Schudel
>I really like the Hurricane, and so did my cat. It's not an A game, but
> I wouldn't call it an F either.
Yeah you're right...move the Hurricane to the 'G' list! :-)
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/7lbv3
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
marc_b
any "A" , etc list would be one ranked by CRITICAL acclaim.
That being said- I do not think that CC, IJ, SC and possibly CV belong
on the "A" list.
However, if the "A" list ranking is one of COLLECTABILITY (that is a
combination or critical acclaim, popularity, and rarity) then I think
your list hits it pretty well- though I think I'd bump CFTBL up .
So- what is the "A" list ranking representative of?
_marc b
metallik
put it at "F" Flintstones would make an F before DH.
edhu...@chello.hu
overly simple ruleset and even the music blows... i think the only ones
liking that are fans of the series... i wouldn't even recommend it for
people who love the show as mcuh as pinball since it willl ruin either
their love for pins or the show...
imo that is...
metallik írta:
Max Badazz
both of these and they are great titles. JY should go to the F list.
Seems like no one ever has a good comment on it. I think its funny
that I love the F list games. Been dying to pick up a DH for a while
now and I enjoy Popeye. You also seem to be missing the other
manufacturers games (Stern, DE, Gottlieb) unless you mentioned that and
I missed it (LOTR and TSPP would be A).
Chris (in NH)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/maxbadazz
WTB: local game (DH, GI, Tmy, WhirlW, SMB, WCS94 are top of my list)
Jeff Reynolds
collection. They are fun to play and look at, sometime rarity can add
to their appeal. Nostalgia can play a large role in the older pins
being an A list (Think HH or BK) Usually lists like Treasure cove's
top 50 would include the A list titles in the top 15 or so
B list is every other desirable pin that the majority of collectors
would be proud to own. Think Treasure coves 20-50 plus older stuff
that is still really good but not the cream of the older stuff (think
catacomb)
C list is everything else. Mostly pins with horrible artwork, terrible
to play, and all around duds. While they are still in collections,
they would be the first to be upgraded. (Think Genesis, Rock,
Hollywood heat, Hoops etc)
I don't really "rate" them below C, as a collector I am interested in
the A and B lists with an oddball sprinkled in (Think Varkon, or
Cyclopes)
Jeff
rudy gulp ptooie
from B to A, then you should also state which game gets moved down. I
held a maximum of 10 pins in each category. That's why games like
STTNG and CFTBL got moved to B. Just not enough slots and I couldn't
bump any other others down. You could argue CC or SC should not be in
the A category, but current prices and rarity dictate otherwise. Most
people say those are currently A games in a collection.
Ted
rudy gulp ptooie
"He has the standard cookie-cutter collecton of A-list games", what 10
pins would that include. I'm thinking high demand, high value, highly
collected, with a high "prestige" factor of owning them. Not just
"most fun to play in a family setting" which is what TreasureCove's
poll goes for.
Ted
ron
the top 10, or at minimum top tier listings on just about any top 100
rated games.
if you let the market determine what is on the A vs B list, a general
rule of thumb is when pricing is consistantly $3000 or more - these are
the top tier.
also i think the lists change for EM vs SS, as i don't want to leave
out one of my favorite pins, fireball, although prices for very good
condition pins are getting pretty high!
\r
cch...@comcast.net
rating the games.
2) Each person will have different favorites. If enough people respond,
almost every title will appear in all tiers.
3) Some people will have different reasons for having those favorites
(value, playability, appearance, ...)
By man-made "nature", there are going to be more "middle of the road"
games (or cars, boats, houses, pets, slots, planets, multiverses, etc)
because you can't what? Please everybody all the time. But on rare
occasions you do strike gold and come up with an item that
multiversally popular. That is how I define an "A" list game. I don't
think I can give that distinction to 10 WPC games.
Most WPC titles are B titles. I don't know where I would draw a line
between B and C. It would be up to "fun factor" (again, different for
everybody).
Then there are a handful of real turds, but I doubt I could come up
with ten of those either.
So I can't group them like you are asking. Sorry.
-cody (the stick in the mud)
CARGPB4
thaiisl...@yahoo.com
If you're going to put TOM, TOTAN and ST*TNG on the "A" list, then you
certainly have to put SS on it as well!
qfrost
Bri...@aol.com
rudy gulp ptooie wrote:
>
> A-list: MM, TZ, AFM, FH, TAF, CV, CC, MB, SC, IJ
>
> B-list: CFTBL, STTNG, WW, Shadow, SS, NGG, TOM, TOTAN, WCS94, G:HS
>
> C-list: BSD, CP, JY, RS, T2, JD, DM, FT, NF, HD ('91)
>
> F-list: DH, Hurricane, Popeye
>
> Any thoughts/comments?
>
> Ted
Well, since it is only WPC I will leave a number of other great games
out that can't make the list.
This is purely from a player point of view and not from a price or
popularity view. I own all but a few on my A and B list, have three
from the C list, one from the D list, and zero from the F list.
A-list: Shadow, FH, MM, AFM, TZ, CV, WW, CFTBL, BSD, I500
B-list: TAF, SS, HSII, WCS, DM, JM, FT, DW, SC, Congo
C-list: STTNG, TOM, MB, IJ, NF, NGG, JB, DH, NBAF, T2
D-list: Corvette, Flintstones, W?D, Hurricane, BR, RS, GI, PZ, TOTAN,
BOP
F-list: CP, CC, HD, JD, Popeye
Brian Bannon
metallik
rudy gulp ptooie wrote:
> To make it more fun, if you say that one game is to be moved up, say
> from B to A, then you should also state which game gets moved down. I
> held a maximum of 10 pins in each category.
Ten is too arbitrary a number.. why ten? Why not five, or eight, or
thirteen?
Anyway, my personal list (certainly not complete) .. this list tends to
value gameplay over rarity but takes all (incl art) into consideration
A list: MM, AFM, SC, TZ, CV, STTNG, WH20, FH, Shadow, CC, CFTBL
B list: All other WPC games (except A, C and D)
C list: DH, Flintstones,
D list: Popeye, Hurricane, GI
Dr. Dave
A: PARAGON, FATHOM, NINEBALL, SEAWITCH, EBD, CENTAUR, VIKING, XENON,
GLOBETROTTERS, PLAYBOY, FLASH GORDON, EMBRYON, KISS, FUNHOUSE
F: RAVEN, NBA FASTBREAK, CAVEMAN, BAD GIRLS, BAD CATS, RG
= )
DR
rudy gulp ptooie
DaveB
--
Thanks, DaveB
"rudy gulp ptooie" <t.mo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1153856274.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
John Wart, jr
I sure am glad I tend to buy what I like to play and not worry about how it
ranks amongst others opinions :)
--
http://www.myhomegameroom.com
"rudy gulp ptooie" <t.mo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1153856274.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dr. Dave
(Added to "A": Cheetah & Stargazer)
= )
DR
rudy gulp ptooie
"A-list" games. Of the 12 pins I currently have, only 2 are on my list
of what I think are the "A" games (TZ and FH). In fact, I recently
sold an AFM to buy a Centaur and a Star Gazer. Clearly, I buy what I
like to play as well. No harm in listing out some games and get
people's reactions. I do, however, think ranking pins is interesting
and fun. I'm a sucker for these types of posts, so I thought I would
start one myself. Never said I worried about how my pins stack up
against another's collection. That's not for me and wasn't my intent.
Just wanted to clarify.
Ted
rudy gulp ptooie
them. I wanna now what gives...dammit! : )
Jeff Reynolds
mean what in entertainment is not ranked somehow? Some things are for
ranked for difficulty, others for quality, and others for the overall
experience. Why should pins be any different? Any collector tends to
naturally organize, rank, and arrange their collections. Again pins
are not only a collectable, but lend themselves to being ranked by
difficulty, fun factor, value, replay ability, rarity etc. I think the
overall A, B, C is just a combination for the above categories.
Despite being new to RGP (only about 16 months or so) I can see how a
small group of jealous people hate the idea of rating/ranking the pins
because it is only seemingly done for someone to gloat. I think it is
done because most collectors like to see how their collection stacks up
against others so that they can make adjustments to the collection to
either enhance it or upgrade it.
It is a shame that when the large group attempts to do this, and the
JDix's of the world have to cry that someone has a copycat collection
or is bragging. The reason the MM's and AFM's are desired by many
is that they are great titles. If you lined up 5 A list and 5 crap
titles in a bar and had 20 random non pinball people wander in, they
would most likely gravitate and return to the A lister's. The
jealous few then say those collectors with mostly or only A list titles
are lemmings or have "no creativity" it their collections. Well
the haters can be "creative" with the crappy (and cheap) titles and
I will follow the herd to the A list titles, you know why, cause they
are 10 times better!
rant off
Jeff
bigmoney
question is about WPC GAMES, there is ALWAYS someone who has to go
against the grain and list older machines??
He stated WPC in the original title and text of the message, thats
what he meant! We get it, you like older games,but thats not what this
thread is about now is it?
Sorry but that stuff just drives me nuts.
If I ask what the best pre 1988 games are, are you going to chime in
with AFM and MM just because?
P.S. Playboy and Kiss ...A list ? Your kidding right ? I wouldn't trade
a cheap jamma cab for either of those!
Kiss: the backglass looks kinda cool, thats it, thats all it has
going for it.
Playboy: Well playboy is just a shit game! it has no redeaming qualitys
at all!
Just my .02
Willy
JDix
played enough to know what a good and a bad pin is. I have been
offered a gang of AFM's in my day and turned them all down because THE
GAME SUCKS. I bought an MM and sold it within 8 days at no profit.
The game just wasn't fun. The whole dungeons and dragons theme
reminded me of the dorks I went to high school with, the humor was a
half ass attempt at best, and the play was repetitive. It was not
worth the money to me, when I could sell that pile of garbage and buy 3
better games with the money (yep some of us do care about money and we
don't believe money is no object). For some of us playing the games is
what counts, not "keeping up with other collectors" as you mention you
do.
What a joke, that type of mentaility is what is ruining pinball. My
rants have very little to do with jealousy or money, trust me. It has
to do with attitude. I can't respect a group of egotistical sheep.
Why do you think RGP sucks so bad now? Look how many of the good
people have left recently? Notice how there is very little activity on
the group compared to the past? It is because the real people who love
pinball for what it is are bailing out because they are sick of people
like you and Cpiel and many others I won't bother to name right now
coming in and bragging and gloating about your "top tier" collections.
I am sick of it to. Ask how I know? Because some of them still read
the group privately and email me in support of the things I say. They
got tired of dealing with the bullshit but they appreciate my efforts.
But I will tire soon as well and leave soon enough, as your cancerous
attitude infects others in the hobby and spoils it for the true
hobbyists. I can hardly watch.
Why don't you go by some expensive paintings or some other crap that
just sits there looking nice. Leave pinball to the players who grew up
playing and actually appreciate the hobby for the fun of it, not just
because it is "trendy" and pinball is "hot" right now.
Jeff Reynolds
Can you post YOUR current collection since everyone else's sucks, I
would like to see what the ideal collection is comprised of.
I want to have the correct "attitude" when I collect and play pinball,
so what games have the correct "attitude"?
There are A list titles to some I don't personally like such as TSPP or
WW. But I don't begrudge someone else for buying them and being proud
of them. I don't classify them as sheep for buying them, hell I am
just glad they enjoy pinball.
Did you every stop to consider that me or the other guys you don't care
to mention don't have a problem with your collection, or the games you
like. YOU are the one trying to dictate what others should like and
collect. You're the one who is jealous and angry. I/we simply get
sick of the negative whining about you tring to change us.
What again is an acceptable list of pins???
JDix
in my opinion certain games suck and certain games don't! It has to do
with "why" you buy them!
Don't sit there and tell me you buy all "A" list games and spend
thousands on every friggin game you own because "you like to play it!"
BULLSHIT. You buy all "A" list games and trick them all out with NOS
playfields and every other NOS unnecessary part in the world just to
have them as showpieces.
My collection now is CV, WH20, and MB. I played all of these games
frequently in high school and college and always wanted them so now
that I can have them I do. I could care less if they have NOS parts, I
could care less if the are "blinged out" by some top name restorer, and
I could care less if you or anybody else loves or hates them. I fix
them up, they look nice and play great and they are fun for me.
Just try to tell me the reasoning you bought the games you did and
dropped the coin you did on so much unnecessary crap for your machines.
"They are fun to play" ain't going to cut it here, because they are
fun to play without dropping $8K extra in nos parts. Sorry, you
dropped that $8K extra for ego and bragging rights. This attitude is
infecting others and driving out the people in the hobby who really are
here for "fun". And in turn it drives up prices taking games out of
the hands of the "less fortunate" who actually appreciate pinball, and
dumping all the games into the hands of those who could give a shit
less about pinball, nostalgia, or fun, and only care about there
precious showpieces that buffer their frail egos.
Go ahead and prove to me how I am wrong.
Dr. Dave
Second: I'll chime in where I want to thank you very much. This is a
free forum and free country last I chcked and I've been around here
longer than your punk ass anyway. :p
Third: I could give a rats ass about MM, MB et al. They are a
"decent" place to visit but I wouldn't want them in my collection, (Yes
you read that correctly). And yes KISS and Playboy are great pins
that I can play over and over again without getting bored sh*tless.
Can you say that about your WPC titles?
Keep any of them for more than a few years? Or do you wind up getting
bored with them and sell them off a year or 2 after you aquire them?
Thought so.
DR
Dr. Dave
Just my $.02
DR
Jeff Reynolds
Well lets see, you have all A list pins that you are fixing up, how is
that any different then me?? oh yea I have "b" list and eclectic stuff.
I can afford to have Chris (the best in the world) fix mine up because
I don't have time to. I would rather spend the time playing them then
tinkering with them.
How old are you?? You grew up with the pins? I played Gorgar at the
bowling alley brand new!! You were playing MB in college?? Wow you
really grew up with pins!! Did you ever even go in an arcade or were
they all extinct??
Bottom line you are jealous of anyone who uses High end pins.
Enjoy your A list bank, save your pennies and maybe one day Chris will
mint out game since you are so "less fortunate".
What am absolute whiner.
Funky Pinaholic
list
TZ is far too overrated. Here's how I'd shake out the games in your
list with some quick movement. It seems like there are a few pins
missing from your list too, or else I'm just not associating the
abbreviation correctly.
A-list: MM, AFM, TAF, CV, CC, TOM, TOTAN, G:HS, Shadow
B-list: TZ, CFTBL, WW, SS, NGG, WCS94, IJ, T2, SC, FH, MB
C-list: BSD, CP, RS, JD, DM, FT, NF, DH, STTNG
D- list Hurricane, Popeye, JY, HD ('91)
JDix
end Pins out of it. Chris is a good guy, and his business does not
even need to be mentioned in this post.
I never said I was "less fortunate". It is others I was referring to,
including several good people who have left the hobby in recent years,
and others who would like to enter the hobby but can't afford it thanks
to morons like you and your kind skewing the prices of the chart with
your unnecessary bullshit.
I could afford any "A" list game I wanted, and I could afford to have
anybody I want restore it with no problem. But here is one of the big
places you and I differ:
II have a nice collection of pins that I love to play and I take pride
in the fact that I put the collection together very affordably. The
games are modest and enjoyed by all.
You have an ostentacious collection of games that you like to show off
and brag how much you spent on them and how much unnecessary crap you
did to them. They play exactly like my games or anyone elses, only
difference is the price tag.
I guess it comes doen to an important word called Humble. You should
look it up in the dictionary some time.
You can keep the argument going, but you will not counter this argument
because it cannot be countered.
Pinball as a hobby is worse because of you and your kind. Accept it
and leave it at that. You take from the hobby and offer nothing in
return. People like you are killing what good and purity there is left
in pinball. PERIOD
Jeff Reynolds
You have issues.
Purity? Give back to the hobby? It's a plywood box with a metal ball
inside. My friend and I play them for fun. It's not a noble quest.
I guess if I have a route beater bank of CV, MB and WW then I would
truely understand what it means to flip around a metal ball. Until
then I will have to make due with my copycat collection.
Ah well, no point in arguing with the illogical
BTW good news, Chris at High End Pins will be delivering my next 2
games, Cyclone and Whirlwind (Sorry they are not A listers like your
collection).
I guess when he and Tom and 20 other people are here for the pinball
party we can light a candle and think of JealousDix and try to remain
"pure" LOL
What an absolute tool!
Out of the hundreds of thousands of pins made I'm sorry that the 40 or
50 Chris can mint out a year is so dramatically inflating YOUR pricing.
You would think that when I acquire a rare pin that is unplayable and
have it restored to perfection it would be considered "giving something
back" and "pure" but since you hardly know me other that just another
name on your HEP hit list you don't really care.
Jeff
JDix
who validate their existence by their monetary possessions, they insist
you have "issues". Sad really : (
As I said before, you can keep the argument going, but you will not
counter this argument because it cannot be countered.
It's a simple question of "Why?" and we all know the answer already.
Just let it rest.
80's GUY!
list are the pins that someday you hope to own. The "C" list is the
pins you have played elsewhere, and never want to see in your Game
Room. The "D" list are the pins you could care less about. Lists in
general are way overated. Much like others, I collect what I and my
family want to play and have fun with. Doesnt matter to me if its a
Gottlieb or Data East. A Taxi or even Firepower would/could make my A
list in time, if I were to buy one. Haunted House as well. Give me
games say from 1979 to the current day, hell.......... Im just happy to
own a few!
bigmoney
I have had quite a few older solid state pins and they get boring,
SORRY but I don't agree with you!
Hell we spoke on the phone when your buddy wanted to buy my Pharaoh and
Jungle lord.
So theres proof I'm not just blowing smoke , the only older pin I have
now is a Seawitch, and that will go here directly too.
But like I said originally the thread was about 90's pins, start
another thread about older stuff and then rant on forever about how
great they are, I don't care, but why hijack a thread about 90's pins
and then do that?
Willy
P.S. this is why I stopped reading this group to many egomaniacs and
guys whining about why they don't have the A list pins.
metallik
Dictionary.com: "No entry found for ostentacious."
If you're going to use big words, please spell them correctly so that
we may look them up. :)
azpinlawyer
A minus: TZ, TAF, NGG, SC, FH
B: CFTBL, WH2O, Shadow, SS, IJ, WCS, FT, I500, STTNG, BSD, TOM
C: CP, NF, T2, DM, JM, DW, W?D, I500, HSII, RS
D/F: The rest.
Jeff Reynolds
And I cannot counter that arguement, as I can't understand what others
have or what they are doing bothers you so much.
Tim Arnold has a thousand pins does that bother you? No you will say
he is pure.
Dan Heatherly has a 9500.00 TAF for sale (or did at Allentown) does
that bother you? No because he is "doing it the right way" you will
say.
Treasure Cove sells pins for way above market, again you have no
problem with that.
Huuummmm, lets see, what is the source of all of your hostility?
Well you have mentioned elsewhere that the list you people you think
are ruining "your" hobby are Me, Cliff, Buddy, Vince, Gary and oh am I
missing anyone??
What do we all have in common? That's right we have Chris at HEP
restoring some of our pins.
You claim you have no problem with Chris, the problem is all of his
customers, what service he is selling and why we are buying.
Gee isn't that like saying "I really hate that kids smoke crack, and I
hate crack and would never do it, but you know what I really like the
crack dealer...I mean he is HUMBLE it's just a shame that those kids
want to buy his crack" LOL
Why can't you simply admit you don't like HEP, what Chris can do with a
pin, and his customers that are grateful someone out there (who in my
case is local) can do such a magnificent job restoring a pinball?
Jeff
seymour...@excite.com
Jeff Reynolds wrote:
>
> Despite being new to RGP (only about 16 months or so) I can see how a
> small group of jealous people hate the idea of rating/ranking the pins
> because it is only seemingly done for someone to gloat. I think it is
> done because most collectors like to see how their collection stacks up
> against others so that they can make adjustments to the collection to
> either enhance it or upgrade it.
>
This paragraph from your reply contradicts itself. Why would you need
to rate the pins to compare to other collections to enhance and upgrade
the collection?
People should buy what they like to play, period. If you're not going
to play them, you're not what I would consider a pinball collector
anyway. You're an art collector, or a status collector, or etc.
The amount of influence someone owning a game has over my decisions to
buy a game: 0
Dr. Dave
PS: You don't own this thread. The only one who would approach having
the rite to complain would be the thread starter who good naturedly
took what I said in the good spirit that was intended.
PSS: I am glad now that my buddy didn't deal with you on those pins.
God knows what he would've wound up recieving.
DR
Mike Muglia
nothing about pinball before then. I will rank my lists based on RGP
info that I have read over the past year, since I have only played a
few of these titles.
A-list: MM, CC, CV, TZ, TAF, TOTAN, TOM, AFM, IJ, MB
B-list: FH, Shadow, CFTBL, SS, WW, STTNG, RS, BSD, NGG
C-list: FT, JM, JD, W?D, T2, DM, DW, NF, G:HS2, JY, WCS94
These lists would be a little easier to compile if they weren't limited
to 10.
Mike
metallik
> have or what they are doing bothers you so much.
You cannot counter because he is making ridiculous claims. His whole
arguments is based on his assumption that "everyone else" buys games
just to feed their ego or to impress people. He obviously can't prove
this nonsense, but he keeps stating it as fact anyway.. kinda humorous
for a while... especially when he buries his head in the sand chanting
"I can't hear you" when people explain that they simply buy the games
they like to play.
Best bet is to not waste your time with him anymore...
JDix
who buys games just to feed their ego's. It is a select group, but the
problem is their attitude is infecting others and it is not healthy for
the hobby. But why must you be a sideshow voice throwing in your 2
cents that nobody even gives a shit about? And worse yet, you
apparently haven't the capacity to think on your own. You just like to
jump on posts like this and take whatever side the tide is flowing
with.
As for the others that are the problem, Jeff R summed it up quite
nicely in this quote "most collectors like to see how their collection
stacks up against others so that they can make adjustments to the
collection to either enhance it or upgrade it"
Ummm, no, only collectors who have ego issues and buy only the most
praised games and dump endless stacks of cash into unnecessary parts to
impress others care about that.
This above quote sums up my argument precisely. No way to argue it.
It answers the "why?" question quite clearly. Some buy games to play
and to have fun, and to enjoy the hobby. That is great! But they buy
games and dump a gang of cash on them to one up the next guy who has
the same ego problem. It is all about impressing others. IT IS IN
PRINT RIGHT THERE, CLEAR AS DAY!
So how the f@#$ can you argue that? CASE CLOSED
And Jeff, you really need to get off the jealousy thing. When my
collection is complete the games I have will be every bit a nice as
yours and I will have paid about 25% of what you paid. Personally I
could care less how my collection "stacks up" against you or anyone
else on the planet. I just say that because I know you do care and I
know it will piss you off : )
movierev...@yahoo.com
Mark Malmberg - Ceres, California
metallik
JDix wrote:
> Metallik, I don't believe "everyone", or even you are one of the ones
> who buys games just to feed their ego's. It is a select group,
A select group consisting of whom? Earlier you said ".....sick of
people like you and Cpiel and many others I won't bother to name right
now coming in and bragging and gloating about your "top tier"
collections." .. so who besides cpiel and reynolds are you ranting
against?
> the hobby. But why must you be a sideshow voice throwing in your 2
> cents that nobody even gives a shit about? And worse yet, you
> apparently haven't the capacity to think on your own. You just like to
> jump on posts like this and take whatever side the tide is flowing
> with.
LOL.. no, I just call bullshit when I see it. Your insistence that
you *know* why everyone else buys the machines they do is some of the
biggest bullshit this side of BMI. You still have yet to explain just
how you *know* that Jeff and cpiel and "many others you won't bother to
name" buy games solely to brag and feed their ego. Until you can prove
your silly claims, you'll only look like a fool to the rest of us. I
don't exactly see anyone backing you up here..
> As for the others that are the problem, Jeff R summed it up quite
> nicely in this quote "most collectors like to see how their collection
> stacks up against others so that they can make adjustments to the
> collection to either enhance it or upgrade it"
Once again we have one speaking for the actions of many, and the
chances are good that Jeff is quite incorrect here as well. I don't
buy games based on how they stack up to others peoples' collections, I
buy games that are cheap and/or local and/or interesting.
> This above quote sums up my argument precisely. No way to argue it.
Of course you can argue it.. the above quote is false. Jeff might
speak for himself, but certainly no one else. Do you know nothing of
debate? Facts rule, opinions are worthless. You must seperate your
opinions from facts. Fact is, you don't know why ANYONE besides
yourself buys their games. Please read this again, slowly... you do
*not know* why other people do what they do. You can GUESS at their
reasons, you can ASSume their reasons, you can even ASK their reasons,
but right now, you don't *know* shit. I could sit here and claim
you're posting these rants because you're a phychotic loser who never
got to play with the cool toys when you were a kid and are now taking
this pent-up jealousy out on the rest of us.. but I don't *know* that
for a fact so I won't make that claim. See any parallels here?
> It answers the "why?" question quite clearly. Some buy games to play
> and to have fun, and to enjoy the hobby. That is great! But they buy
> games and dump a gang of cash on them to one up the next guy who has
> the same ego problem. It is all about impressing others. IT IS IN
> PRINT RIGHT THERE, CLEAR AS DAY!
>
> So how the f@#$ can you argue that? CASE CLOSED
You're attacking people for spending money to fix up the games they
bought? Man, I was right.. you are beyond help.. shoulda took my own
advise and bozo-binned you :)
> And Jeff, you really need to get off the jealousy thing. When my
> collection is complete the games I have will be every bit a nice as
> yours
Oh really.. so in other words, you're going to "dump a gang of cash
on them to one up the next guy..." .. or are you magically going to
wish them into tip-top shape?
Does the word "hypocrite" ring a bell? You're a piece of work, jdix :)
pinballjim
those ABC lists....
JDix
would be a waste of my time and unfortunately everyone else's.
However, I will repeat what I said before as apparently you cannot
read: CASE CLOSED
Mike Messersmith
> overly simple ruleset and even the music blows... i think the only ones
> liking that are fans of the series... i wouldn't even recommend it for
> people who love the show as mcuh as pinball since it willl ruin either
> their love for pins or the show...
> imo that is...
Nah, I would disagree. Lots of people pan GI due to its simplicity
(and it IS simplistic), but it seems to have a cult following too. I
know several people that won't let go of theirs at all. I really liked
mine and still regret getting rid of it - it was great for a quick
little game (kind of like an EM in that respect). I'd probably put it
on the C list as it's still a good player and if tuned properly its a
fast game. Just my opinion, though. :)
Mike
Jeff Reynolds
"I think it is done because most collectors like to see how their
collection stacks up
against others so that they can make adjustments to the collection to
either enhance it or upgrade it."
What I meant be that statement is this: When I first meet a new pin
collector one of the first things they want to know is "what do you
have". After you tell them they tell you their collection. Lets say
they comment "well you don't have xyz pin, I have it and it rocks!"
Well then I would be interested in playing it at Allentown, or on
location or at another collectors house. Perhaps I would want that pin
in my collection, or maybe if I am out of room I would want to
"upgrade" a title I don't like as much or am tired of with the xyz. I
guess you can always read ego into it, or compitition, but after
playing in basketball leagues and gaming leagues I enjoy the social
side of pinball and other than high scores really don't find it
competative.
My goal is to have the arcade that I built in my back yard stocked with
a huge assortment of nice condition games for friends and family and
other pin heads to come over and enjoy. Eventually when the collection
nears completion and is ready I will start hosting pinball tournaments.
We have a local club that I have been talking to already.
Just out of curosity, Jdix, if someone had an arcade of 42 pins, in
fantastic condition, from Gorgar to POTC would you not want to come and
play?
Would you say "wait a minute this has an NOS playfield in it" or "I
cannot possible play this it is a minted out prototype", or better yet,
"this looks too nice he must have spent alot on it." I can't possibly
play these?
Just enjoy your pins and let everyone else enjoy theirs.
Jeff
JDix
ranging from "A" titles on down the line. And they probably have more
money than you and me combined. They are friends of mine, and they are
great people and I have nothing bad to say about them. I play their
machines and they play mine.
The difference is they are HUMBLE. You would not know from talking to
them if they are rich or poor. They do not flaunt their money, or brag
and post on a public forum about every game and part they have acquired
and what it cost them. They don't look down on others or their
collections because they aren't "what everyone else likes" or because
they didn't use "Restorer X" or install all NOS parts in games that
were perfectly fine to begin with. They have fun with pinball, and are
happy to share with others. They aren't defined by their material
possessions, and they don't need a groups or other collectors approval
to feel good about themselves.
As I said before it is about attitude and the question "why?". This is
freaking pointless, you will never get it. All you keep focusing on
is money because unfortunatley that is the only thing you can seem to
understand.
This thread is done.
seymour...@excite.com
Jeff Reynolds wrote:
> My earlier comment:
> "I think it is done because most collectors like to see how their
> collection stacks up
> against others so that they can make adjustments to the collection to
> either enhance it or upgrade it."
>
> What I meant be that statement is this: When I first meet a new pin
> collector one of the first things they want to know is "what do you
> have". After you tell them they tell you their collection. Lets say
> they comment "well you don't have xyz pin, I have it and it rocks!"
Sure I can see that - thanks for clarifying this. That's not really
stacking it up though - it still should be personal preference.
"stacking up" implies to me that there's some competition in the actual
titles, which is silly. There are tons of people that like titles I
choose not to collect because I don't like playing them. More power to
'em.
lightguy
I would only rate games I have played over 100 times or else its just
guessing.
That said, my A list.
CV,TOM, TZ, JB ( ! ), NGG, WCS, WH2O, IJ,
B list; SS, I500, Shadow, AFM ( yes AFM ), STtNG, RFM, JY
C list; WD,NBA,
F list: Golden Cue is starting to piss me off but its a sofware bug.
I dont have proper play time on MM, MB, and CFtBL to rate them
accuratly but they seem A quality.
Dave M
gameroom? Sounds fantastic.
That, I am jealous about. ;-)
However, I've come to accept my limitations and will enjoy my 4-5 pins
and rotate them in and out like a lunatic.
Dave
Jeff Reynolds
their new pins?
I never posted much of anything on RGP until Chris asked to to post
about on one of the pins he did for me. I told him no problem. How
many posts have I done regarding a pin for Chris?
How many have been done about a pin footie or hole protector? These
are there to promote the seller and tell new collectors who the good
guys are.
I simply wanted to help out Chris and his business.
Your core problem is deep down you wish you could restore games like
Chris and command the respect and financial rewards that it brings.
But since you can't you lash out at his customers in a fit of jealousy
all the while kissing Chris's ass.
All along I thought is was the money you were jealous over, but it's
not its the talent.
I'm sure your "mini restoration" on the CV is first rate LOL!!!
Good luck selling it. At least with a HEP you know you are getting the
best.
Jeff
Jeff Reynolds
I have about 30 so far, some are still being restored, some are still
being collected.
I figure it will take another year to acquire and restore the titles
that need it.
Once the Arcade is done I plan on posting pics.
Thanks for the interest. BTW sorry if I come off as irritated, but
when guys like JDix bash me, and Chris Hutchins "chop shop" they need
to be set straight ;)
Jeff
cpiel
and applauds your efforts at putting together what is bound to be one
of the best Pin Arcades in the East.
Don't let some immature punk like JDick get to you - he's got nothing
positive to bring to the table and is the real cancer around here as
many others are starting to realize. You, me, Buddy, Vince, now
Metallik, PL just got bashed as well - pretty soon it will be anyone
that is pumped about having a nice collection is on his crybaby hit
list.
What's hilarious is he keeps running his mouth about being humble while
being the most arrogant negative troll to hit rgp in quite some time -
oh, and his public CH rear kissing is quite a hoot as well LOL!
JDix
take me on and you still get crushed on every post.
LOL!!!
Call it ass kissing if you want, I was just trying to leave Chris out
of it. He isn't the problem. We really can't blame him just because a
couple of his customers are pieces of shit.
All your babbling and subject changing still haven't changed a thing
about what is at the core of the matter.
All you guys care about is status and impressing other people. PERIOD.
It is so blatant, and everybody knows it! Are you sure you aren't
both women??? I doubt either one of you could even change a light bulb
on a game, and I bet both of you suck ass royally at pinball. But you
sure know how to spend money, and better yet you sure know how to talk
about spending money.
If I had time I would dig back into your old posts and see how many
times you offered technical help (hahahahaha), or offered an opinion of
a game that didn't entirely revolve around its price or collectability.
I bet there wouldn't be one.
But I bet if I searched back at how many times you clamored about CH
doing a game for you, or buying NOS parts for top dollar, or how your
collection will be the best I would find and endless stack of shit to
sift through.
I guess I was wrong, you guys truly are an asset to the hobby and RGP
is happy to have you. We all know the world needs more pompous
pretencious assholes who can't do anything for themselves besides brag
and spend money.
e...@ataboy.com
know I'm a 12 year collector and not a newbie by a long shot...
but....
Where can I find a list of these abbreviations!!?!??!
While I have over 100 pinballs in my warehouse, I cannot figure out
what these machines are...
"SC, BSD, CP, JY, DH "
I don't mean to be dummy, but can't we just spell these out. I guess
I'm not in the club.
Why isn't Hurricane just "H" and Popeye just "P"
Are you all are just too hip for the room?
Ed
Lloyd Olson
you can search the Internet Pinball Database http://www.ipdb.org/ in advance
search by initials. LTG :)
<e...@ataboy.com> wrote in message
news:1153973760.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Mickey Johnson
pull up these posts that don't have any relevent information.
oh, and the below are:
Safecracker, Bram Stoker dracula, CP(got me on that one), Junkyard, Dirty
Harry.
Its not really that hard when the bulk of the posts are about wpc games and
that covers about 10 years of pins.
Personally, I would prefer if people would remove there game lists from
there signatures. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't end my
conversation with friends by saying "oh, and btw I own the following pins",
but usenet is all about anything goes, and it does.
Mickey
<e...@ataboy.com> wrote in message
news:1153973760.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
cpiel
in other people's business. To each their own. Different people like
this hobby for different reasons and there's nothing wrong with that.
I strive to have killer examples of the few titles I have space for -
so what? My games get plenty of play, but even if they didn't, how is
that your concern? Some people here even like fixing up games more
than actually playing them and that's cool too. I hire out the
restorations, you do your own - so what? It's all personal preference
and no one should have to defend their preference to anyone else.
Yes, there are times when I've been pumped about receiving a pristine
game from Chris that may have taken me 9 months to save for and I've
posted pics etc. Many people do this because only fellow pinball
enthusiasts can really appreciate where you're coming from - sharing
the excitement. Do I do this to make others like you feel bad? Of
course not. But if you can't share your excitement here, then you
can't share it anywhere. Heck, there's even a topic called "Brag"
since this is a forum where we can trade stories of getting great deal,
finding a part we've been searching long and hard for or finally
getting a game we've been wanting to get. If you're offended by those,
don't read them.
If you google search me, you're right - very little technical
assistance since I don't do the restorations. However, I've helped
dozens upon dozens of people find parts for their games and have spent
tons of time over this past year doing so. That's been my way of
giving back a bit since so many people have helped me out along the
way.
Personally, I love hearing about peoples collections, whether it be a
guy's first pin or a minted out showcase. I'd love to do what Jeff is
doing for instance, but I'm not in a position to. So should we all be
mad at him for putting this together just because we're not all in a
position to do the same? Or should we be happy for him that he's able
to put something like this together?
Anyway, the bottom line is if someone has some good fortune that they
choose to share here, we all have a choice to either be happy for them
or attack them out of jealousy. I'm not sure where all your raging
anger stems from, but this is not the place to vent it.
Jeff Reynolds
cussing, the logical arguements are over.
I can totally see both sides of a clearcoat or not clearcoat debate
when both parties are stating facts and not opinions. I like to see
the discussions on the topic. In fact I like to see discussions about
many pinball topics that's why I read RGP.
But once his discussion is lowered to basically the "no, your mom!"
level, it's time to leave it alone.
Oh well, enjoy your 3 pins JealousDix, good luck selling your "mini
restored" CV and we will just try to enjoy our HEP masterpieces.
Jeff
PinMan
Mike Schudel
> I don't mean to be dummy, but can't we just spell these out. I guess
> I'm not in the club.
For the same reason we don't go around saying:
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
International Business Machines
Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing
Department of Motor Vehicles
Light Amplification by the Simulated Emmision of Radation
Ante Meredian
Global Positioning System
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
Universal Serial Bus
Hypertext Markup Language
The world is FULL of acronyms...just be glad you are not in the Information
Technology field!
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/7lbv3
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
e...@ataboy.com
lately used MMM or IEEE. And the guy at the coffeeshop hasn't used MM,
CFTBL, BK2K, TAF, or CV in his daily conversation. I often worry about
the geek factor of this hobby. I ain't one, I just own a lot of
pinballs. Hence, not a geek = don't know what CP stands for. I have
other things on my mind. Just my .25 cents.
Mike Schudel
> Agreed. But, most people have heard of NASA, IBM, and DMV. I haven't
> lately used MMM or IEEE. And the guy at the coffeeshop hasn't used MM,
> CFTBL, BK2K, TAF, or CV in his daily conversation. I often worry about
> the geek factor of this hobby. I ain't one, I just own a lot of
> pinballs. Hence, not a geek = don't know what CP stands for. I have
> other things on my mind. Just my .25 cents.
Oh and it's 3M (not MMM) you know the company that brings us scotch tape and
post-it notes and other sticky stuff. :-) We don't use this cryptic acronym
stuff to try and be geeky. It's just easy to type a few letters instead of
the whole name of the game...hence an acronym is born. Now real geekdom is
when people start talking in acronyms with game names like TOTAN (Tales of
the Arabian Nights) for instance. :-)
If pinball were more mainstream, then CFTBL (Creature From The Black
Lagoon), CV (Cirqus Voltaire), BK2K (Black Knight 2000) and TAF (The Addams
Family) would be daily words but they aren't. I dare you to go into any
hobby where they don't have their own idiosyncrasies...one of ours is
acronyms. It's been around in this hobby way before rgp (Rec.games.pinball)
has been around.
Daryl
club. Some articles are so filled with acronyms, when you put it in Word,
with the red lines under the mis-speeled words, it looks like it's bleeding
to death! The pinball abbreviations database comes it hany sometimes. I
have just started reading RGP about a week ago.
I had liked pinball for a long time. I didn't realize just how many other
people are "into" pinball.
Daryl
"Mike Schudel" <schu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hu1Bg.58$ZE4...@fe05.lga...
e...@ataboy.com
everyone's signature, and somewhat inside.
I'm going to go work on a few games tonight. Let me know if you figure
out what they are.
I need to re-rubber a K, an F, an SP, a BD, a BAB, and an RAB, and my
all time favorite, F.
Hey, just following the idea... ;>
Krellan
> I've seen quite a few posts recently where people keep referring to
> "A-list" games. That got me thinking...what is generally
> considered the "A-list" games of the 1990s (WPC only)? After that,
> what are the ones just below that in a "B-list"? What about the
> "C-list"? Is there an "F-list"?
OK, I have to chime in with my list. I'll use the standard series of
the 44 WMS Williams/Bally dot matrix pinball games, from T2 to Cactus
Canyon.
At least I think it's 44 games, that's what I could find on IPDB. I'm
not sure exactly offhand how many, but if I had them all in my basement
it would make it easier to count :)
A-list: TAF, TZ, IJ, STTNG, WCS, TAFG, Shadow, AFM, MM, CV
Desert island games, the foundation of many people's collections.
Maybe I should consider TAF and TAFG to be the same game. Many people
include CFTBL as an A-list game, but I personally don't like it, as it
frustrates me: all that work, just to qualify a 2-ball multiball, that
drains almost instantly....
B-list: T2, DW, FT, CFTBL, Road Show, TOM, NF, JM, TOTAN, Scared Stiff,
NGG, MB, Cactus Canyon
C-list: Party Zone, Getaway, Black Rose, Whitewater, BSD, Judge Dredd,
DM, Flintstones, Corvette, Whodunnit, Jackbot, Congo, Champion Pub
The B-list and C-list are the bulk of WMS's output. A lot of fine
games here, that for whatever reason, aren't seen as all-time classics.
There's a fine line here, and I just divided this based on personal
opinion. The B-list games are good solid machines, and the C-list
machines are still liked by many, but have certain things about them
that prevent them from being solid classics (too simplistic, ugly
artwork, undesirable theme, and so on).
D-list: Gilligan's Island, Hurricane, Popeye, Dirty Harry, Indy 500,
Safecracker, Junkyard, NBA Fastbreak
These games are widely considered to be flops, and undesirable for
whatever reason. There's no F-list, although you could consider the
D-list to be this. (If you want a true F-list, start including DE and
Gottlieb games from this period :)
I'm including Safecracker here, because I personally detest the game,
even though it is a cult favorite among some. (Yay, a 1-ball timed
game on a miniature playfield, in which all shots lead to a random
board game that the player can't really control. If I wanted that, I'd
play a British fruit machine, have a lot more fun doing so, and maybe
win some of my money back!)
Josh