Pinrepair Website
Mike Schudel
to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at all.
Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web log-in
access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will this ever
go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no details.
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
Gameroom Video: http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
MrMarco
I wrote Clay this morning asking the same questions. I have no
problem buying a CD, but Clay is always updating the site with new
sections and information. I would like to know how updates are
handled. Maybe after buying the CD the site becomes available online
via a Login?
Suerte,
MrMarco
homebrood
Man that is F'd up!
This has been free and available for so many years, and now we're all
supposed to send them 10 bucks?
I would have gladly sent Clay 10 bucks, and would love to visit and
support PPM, but this seems like a backhanded way to do this.
Tom
Pinball Plus
Thats great . About time he should be compensated for his work . 10.00
is chicken feed for all that information!
JeffB418
to get to repair information doesn't stifle new comers to pinball. One
reason I started to really get into the hobby was pinrepair.com, and
how useful the information was for repairing my first few machines.
Now that it's behind a curtain I see it deterring newbies. I mean you
and I know the HUGE amount of useful info we are getting for $10, but
most others may just see the $10 tag and run away. Just saying.
Jeff B
seymour.shabow
> Now that it looks like to access the Pinrepair site you need to donate $10
> to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at all.
> Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web log-in
> access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will this ever
> go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no details.
>
Where is the info that you need to donate? Looked all over for it and
didn't see it, but I'm slow sometimes ;)
I also noticed that it's no longer accessible via marvin3m.com - just
pinrepair. None of the text saying it's free has been changed yet. The
biggest drag to me would be having to login every time unless it uses a
cookie or something to recognize me.
Mrhide
wrote:
the info is here:
http://pacificpinball.org/visit/pinball-swag
and sorry but this is the internet... it's still "out there" if you
know where to look.
gatordad
I bet this thread gets a ton of replies.
Permanent change or temporary fund raiser?
Indian giver......
--
gatordad
WTB Nice TAF for under 4000
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
BC_Gambit
Yeah, I am sure this will be a pretty big topic. I am not against the
idea of a $10 donation, but the way this was handled I am sure will
stir up a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings.
Off to look up alternate versions I go...
Brian Shepherd
When you drill down into the site to specific pages, you are presented
with a login.
seymour.shabow
Yeah, I know that and I just realized that it's got a script front end,
which noscript was blocking. I see the message now.
I'll wait to see how rude Clay's response to this thread will be before
I pay the $10 ;)
Eh, it is what it is...... I can see where he's coming from, and PPM is
certainly worth supporting. I doubt you're going to get updates via CD
past the first one.... there's a cost involved with making and shipping
CD's. (mostly shipping, with the low price of CDR's right now)
Rob
can still access it online. I'm sure many, like myself, access the
information at home, work, our phone and other places to get details
whenever the mood strikes. Having the only legitimate access via CD
would be very inconvenient.
machine.slave
warning would have been nice.
In the meantime.... archive.org is a beautiful thing. ;)
I'll still donate once there's a bit of clarification though. Has
anyone confirmed whether you can access a web guide via username and
password? I'd hate to have to transport a CD around all the time.
- B
Rum-Z
me. I'm fine with it, and it would be nice to have the info on a CD-
rom. Clay was nice for offering all the info for free for years.
Nothing lasts forever.
chas010
I will have no problem sending him 10 bucks, just need to get his PayPal
info. I personally have used that site a lot : ).
--
chas010
dasvis
Made my $11.00 donation.
Cheap, & well worth it to support a great cause.
However, I do agree that password protected online access would be a
good option -- for updates, etc.
--
dasvis
PinDarth
Bottom Feeder Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get another job you cheap bas%ard
Juan_Fingers
knowledge his website provides. I guess some of you wanted a heads up
so you could print the information out and avoid paying the meesly $10
bucks. Hopefully this will get rid of the cheap asses in this hobby
that expect everything for free. TEN DOLLARS and you guys are
complaining!!! COME ON.
Lewis
Tom G
It doesn'y appear Clay will be compensated according to the ad. It
says non for profit and goes to the pacific pinball musuem. If it
goes to some good for the hobby/museum/whatever, I think $10 bucks is
fair.
Aeneas - www.flippers.be
Also my opinion.. many pins are saved because beginners find the site
and aren't afraid of fixing a pin.
Now they won't as easily find how to repair it and the game may get
parted/trashed/..
may also keep new people from entering the hobby.
Why not just put adsense ads on the site ?
Have paid banners from sponsors (pinball parts dealers, ..) ?
This would probably earn much more considering the amount of people
visiting that site..
Aeneas.
-- http://www.flippers.be
Sean Kavanagh
PPM and not PHOF? Interesting...
Sean
BB
Then just go to: http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
Done!
Brian Shepherd
> I can't believe anyone would bitch about this knowing the weath of
> knowledge his website provides. I guess some of you wanted a heads up
> so you could print the information out and avoid paying the meesly $10
> bucks. Hopefully this will get rid of the cheap asses in this hobby
> that expect everything for free. TEN DOLLARS and you guys are
> complaining!!! COME ON.
> Lewis
Over reaction much? Given the first 17 replies in this thread, I think
the response has been civil.
Personally, I don't mind sending the $10, it's well worth it. But I
have zero use for a CD however, just a login/pass.
- Brian
machine.slave
proven to be an invaluable resource to our hobby, and $11 for the
hours of aggravation it has saved me is nothing. I think most of us
were just a little surprised to find the "pin repair resource at our
finger tips" is no longer "at our finger tips", so in some cases it
brings the repairs to an unexpected halt. That's why I'm curious if
we also get a user name and password to access the site via web
browser while we wait for our CD's. I'm in Canada, so that's a 2 week
wait.. that would kinda suck.
I don't think a warning would've been a bad thing.. Clay's been known
to take the site down from time to time, and so most of us have
backups of the site anyway. ;)
BTW, I just sent my $11 donation!
- B
On Apr 20, 10:27 am, Juan_Fingers <lewbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
John In WI
If 10 bucks is going to make that big of a difference to a newbie,
they're getting themselves into the wrong hobby...
homebrood
>
> - Show quoted text -
Whatever, I'm not cheap and I don't mind paying and I will. I just
think Clay could have put up some kind of notice and statement that he
wishes these funds to go to PPM. I can see that is his wish, but I
still don't like giving the money to a third party without any choice.
There are a lot of Pinball Museums across the country. Would have
liked to be given the choice of a few as to where the money goes not
just PPM. I would rather Clay get the money directly, but if this is
what he want's then that's ok. Still think it could have been handled
better and would like to have online access as others have said.
Bottom Feeder? I'm at work so I do have a Job. Oh and I won't stoop to
name calling as you Jumped right into!
Have a nice day!
Tom
Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic
Museum - which is a facility which I would never visit given that it's
located on the other side of the country. Clay should follow the lead
of the maintainers of the Internet Pinball Database and allow people
to VOLUNTARILY donate.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
Toolguy
money, not matter what/where the money goes.
That said, $10 is not bad but this person does not want to get into
the CD business and shipping, trust me.
A log in and PW for $10 is the better route!
I also say 3 free site hits (for new bees and such) before it asks you
for the $10 is a nice thing to offer too.
metallik
"Why Free? These guides are free because I want people to use them.
The more people use them, and the more it helps them, then the more
inclined I am to keep it up to date. For this reason, if you find the
guides useful, please tell your friends. These guides are free, rather
than formally published, because I want to deliver the best product
possible."
Leave it to Clay to f*#k up a good idea :) I think it would have
been a lot better for him to just simply put a big donation button for
the PPM on all the pages, rather than pull them like this. Of course,
this is what, the fourth time he's yanked his site for one reason or
another? Methinks most people have local copies by now. And as some
have noted, with archive.org and google cache, it's pretty much
impossible to totally yank the site.
machine.slave
something like: "Hey guys, I offer the Pin Repair Guides for free and
have continued to do so for many years. If you'd care to show your
appreciation for these efforts, please make a donation to Pacific
Pinball Museum." etc. etc. I'm sure many of us would have made the
donation regardless.. keeping pinball alive is a team effort. I for
one will probably never visit the PPM, and I still have access to the
repair guides through various means... and yet I still donated. $10
is barely lunch money these days.. no big deal. Most of us have at
least that sitting in our PP accounts anyway.
My two cents.
- B
On Apr 20, 10:41 am, "Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic" <t...@dziedzic.us>
wrote:
indy5mike
> Now that it looks like to access the Pinrepair site you need to donate $10
> to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at all.
> Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web log-in
> access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will this ever
> go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no details.
>
> --
> Mike S.
> Kalamazoo, MI
> Gameroom:http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
> W C S Owner's List:http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
> Gameroom Video:http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
I dont mind donating $10 for the info but it looks like PPM may have
purchased the site. I know Clay has been screwed with a lot lately but
could he be so down on pinball he's giving up? If so thats too bad he
has been a great resource to me.
Examiner
where I ever saw that much technical information collected in a single
space - and made available at no charge. $10 one-time donation (to a
related cause) for lifetime access to a treasure chest of
information. Doesn't sound bad to me.
Having said that, I started in this hobby 12 months ago. I probably
studied the repair guide for a month before my 1st purchase, trying to
convince myself I would be able to repair a machine with my feeble
skills. I took the plunge and have since brought 5 machines back
from the dead, with heavy reliance on the guides.
Honestly - had I been required to pay to access the site - I probably
would have just assumed it was beyond my abilities, and my dream of
owning a pinball machine would have faded. So yes, I do see this as
a small "barrier to entry" for new hobbyists, which isn't a good
thing. Hopefully they will make some type of sample guide available
to site visitors so they can see a little of what is involved in the
hobby.
The "problem" with banner ads, etc. is you would never know where the
revenue ends up, then people would start bitching about Clay pocketing
money off of other's peoples work (a charge which I've seen thrown
about that I have no personal knowledge or opinion of one way or
another...). The requested payment is clearly a donation going to a
nonprofit, so I give him credit for nipping that in the bud. I love
free stuff, but I also like a bargain, and I think this is a bargain.
Fursphere
Can't say I blame him. I've been in similar shoes with another hobby...
help help help only to have people shit in your breakfast cereal.
--
Fursphere
AVP Pinball Division
news:mdBrp.31240$sS4....@newsfe11.iad...
> Now that it looks like to access the Pinrepair site you need to donate $10
> to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at
> all. Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web
> log-in access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will
> this ever go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no
> details.
>
> --
> Mike S.
> Kalamazoo, MI
> Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
> W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
> Gameroom Video: http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
>
>
Wait, I seem to be missing something. PPM now has the rights to sell a CD
of Clay's site for those who need it when they're offline or when they have
a crappy internet connection. I saw nothing that said Clay was going to
start charging the $10 for access to the site.
Looks like PPM is simply looking for a way to get donations. A CD of an
entire repair site is a good way to do it and promote the hobby.
I think some posters read too much into the PPM page by thinking Clay is now
charging for access. As quoted from the PPM page: "Now you don't need
reams of printouts or internet access."
So PPM hooks up with Clay to do the hobby a favor, someone misinterprets
that intention and now the posts are flying...
Unless I really missed something. I didn't see any pop-ups from
pinrepair.com asking for one to purchase the CD. I also didn't see any
notice that pinrepair.com was going to drop from the internet and that the
CD would be the only way to get the repair guide.
Again: I think some posters read too much into the PPM page by thinking
Clay is now charging for access. As quoted from the PPM page: "Now you
don't need reams of printouts or internet access."
--
Pistol Pete
AVP Pinball Division
Towson, MD
410-583-9200
www.AVPpinball.com
ser...@AVPpinball.com
Jay
Asks for a L/P to go further then the index for a specific repair guide.
On Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:13:38 AM UTC-7, AVP Pinball Division wrote:
> Unless I really missed something. I didn't see any pop-ups from
> pinrepair.com asking for one to purchase the CD. I also didn't see any
> notice that pinrepair.com was going to drop from the internet and that the
> CD would be the only way to get the repair guide.
>
metallik
> pinrepair.com asking for one to purchase the CD. I also didn't see any
> notice that pinrepair.com was going to drop from the internet and that the
> CD would be the only way to get the repair guide.
You can't access the pinrepair pages anymore. Well, not on their home
site anyway. From the paywall:
"Please help the museum and purchase the pinball repair guides from
them on CD ROM. This is the only way to gain access to the pinball
repair guides at this point in time. We have changed the repair guide
access to this method to help aid the non-profit Pacific Pinball
Museum."
Brian Shepherd
wrote:
> Unless I really missed something. I didn't see any pop-ups from
> pinrepair.com asking for one to purchase the CD. I also didn't see any
> notice that pinrepair.com was going to drop from the internet and that the
> CD would be the only way to get the repair guide.
Each repair section gives you the index, credits and Bibliography, but
the guts are locked down.
From : http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index2.htm
----
The copyrighted PinRepair.com Pinball Repair Guides are now available
for sale from the NON-PROFIT 501c Pacific Pinball Museum.Please help
the museum and purchase the pinball repair guides from them on CD ROM.
This is the only way to gain access to the pinball repair guides at
this point in time. We have changed the repair guide access to this
method to help aid the non-profit Pacific Pinball Museum.
----
-- Brian
ChadT
wrote:
> Unless I really missed something.
If you try to go into most of the guides it brings you to a login
screen. Only the most basic intro guides are still available.
That actually does address the "let the newbies have some content"
issue. Some of the beginner guides are still up there for free.
Atomicboy
http://www.pinballninja.com/index.php.old/
however, only the front page is accessible, and nothing else, has this
changed again recently as well?
Examiner
wrote:
> Wait, I seem to be missing something. > serv...@AVPpinball.com
Actually click thru one of the links on the main page. It will take
you to a log-on page where you are required to enter your name/
password before you can view any additional information.
If you are actually able to view the pages without hitting the log-on
page, your browser must've cached the webpages somehow?
Pinballed
times I thought I should make a copy of these things but as the years
passed I've entered alot of that into into the upstairs file aka my
brian. Without that guide I would be completely lost for pin repair.
Gone to it so many times I can practically visualize whole chapters. I
sure dont need that guide like I used to, but there ARE those times
when something obscure will come up and I need a quick fact.
pinballtom264
Glad I printed out all the ones I need
Pinballed
> Glad I printed out all the ones I need
Thats the thing...the ones I need...the usual ones arent going to be
the ones I need next time. Its those obscure ones I know I'll miss the
most!
pinballtom264
When I do I'll chip in the $10.00 it's still a good deal.
DCug4eva
Let's hope Brian doesn't move out or you'll be back to using clay's
guides!
Pinballed;1679207 Wrote:
> Many
> times I thought I should make a copy of these things but as the years
> passed I've entered alot of that into into the upstairs file aka my
> brian.
--
DCug4eva
Pin-Del
If I knew for a Fact someone is going to send me a CD, I'd order mine
right now !
I think it is about time Clay did this & it is for a Great cause to
boot .
Pin-Del
cargpb28
Pinballed
see? too late already apparently!
Mike O
Thanks for making these available, Clay.
Mike O.
Johnny
All that info on a CD, for $10, no problem! I'd pay another $10 to
have access to the updates on line!
How much is a movie on DVD or a music CD ????
AVP Pinball Division
news:b5a12dff-225f-45ca...@z33g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
> Each repair section gives you the index, credits and Bibliography, but
> the guts are locked down.
Yep, I missed that. Didn't drill down far enough into the site. Oh well.
It is what it is. Personally if the money would solely be used to maintain
the site that would be OK with me. Donating to PPM does nothing for me,
opposite coast. The National Pinball Museum in DC is only about 45 minutes
away from me. I can't see sending money to PPM when I'll probably never
again see the west coast. :|
Juan_Fingers
out of the hobby within 2 months. But ten years later i have a nice
working collection and I'm able to put games on location for others to
enjoy the hobby of pinball. Without those guides I would be
collecting Legos or something that sucks Luckily for me I found my
passion in life thanks to Clay. PINBALL!! Sorry if you think that is
overreacting.
Lewis
On Apr 20, 8:35 am, Brian Shepherd <slamt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 10:27 am, Juan_Fingers <lewbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I can't believe anyone would bitch about this knowing the weath of
> > knowledge his website provides. I guess some of you wanted a heads up
> > so you could print the information out and avoid paying the meesly $10
> > bucks. Hopefully this will get rid of the cheap asses in this hobby
> > that expect everything for free. TEN DOLLARS and you guys are
> > complaining!!! COME ON.
> > Lewis
>
> Over reaction much? Given the first 17 replies in this thread, I think
> the response has been civil.
>
> Personally, I don't mind sending the $10, it's well worth it. But I
> have zero use for a CD however, just a login/pass.
>
> - Brian
phishrace
> I can't believe anyone would bitch about this knowing the weath of
> knowledge his website provides. I guess some of you wanted a heads up
> so you could print the information out and avoid paying the meesly $10
> bucks. Hopefully this will get rid of the cheap asses in this hobby
> that expect everything for free. TEN DOLLARS and you guys are
> complaining!!! COME ON.
It's not simply a matter of the $10 donation. What I have a problem
with is who gets the money. From what I've seen, the PPM is the most
aggressive fundraiser of any of the pinball non-profits. Yet none of
their money goes to anything but the PPM. This was fine when they were
raising money for a new location. Now that they have expanded the old
location and hung a sign out front that says PPM, what exactly do they
need all this money for now? They have a home. From what I gather,
most of the work done there is done by volunteers. Judging by the cut
they take from the tournaments at PPE every year, the show makes a
profit. Again, where is all this money going?
The PHOF has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to local
charities. I haven't heard of a single donation made by PPM other than
discount passes (which raises more funds).
-phish
Hans
was provided as a service to the community. PARTICULARLY, stuff that
other people do hold copyrights to, such as Mark's pages which are
copied essentially verbatim, including text and photos.
pinball.flippers.info/system6resources.asp
-Hans
djcharlie17
and donates the cash generated to whomever he wants? Even to himself
would be fine with me. Tim Arnold claimed they were a huge generator
of income for the PHOF, so I imagine new ones would be more of the
same.
Regardless, Clay's work has been incredible for the pinball hobby, so
a big "thank you" for that sir.
Charlie
http://www.spookypinball.com
frenchy
Without Clay's guides I would of been in and
> out of the hobby within 2 months. But ten years later i have a nice
> working collection >>
Wow, I wonder how all us real old guys ever started and stayed in the
hobby for years when we didn't even HAVE an internet.
Curbfeeler
the point. Why not another museum? Why not PBHOF? Why not IPDB?
Why not kids needing heart transplants? It's Clay's choice; that's
why. If you want to support a different cause then make a significant
contribution of the community as Clay has done, and then you can be in
charge of whether it's sold for profit or not and where the money
goes. Personally, I've always wondered how I could pay back some of
the value I've gotten from Clay's guides. Now I know. I'm very happy
to pay.
Dan
phishrace
I'm not complaining. I'd just like someone from the PPM to tell us
where all this money is going. I prefer to support for profit pinball,
so if I do support non-profit pinball, I want to know where my money
goes. The PHOF puts it out there for all to see:
http://www.pinballmuseum.org/donate.php
I don't see anything similar on PPM's site. Yes, they are different
organizations, but why is PPM still so aggressively raising funds when
they already have a home. The PHOF building still isn't paid for, yet
they donated $100K to charity in January.
-phish
Mickey Johnson
"learning to deal with people".
The sad thing is he is trying to help the PPM and this is a horrible way to
show it.
He took something that was offered for free and now has the ppm extorting 10
bucks for
it. There were so many better ways to achieve the same goal without it
being so douchtastic.
I imagine his servers are getting slamed while people are downloading cached
copys through google. The cached copys still pull the pics from his site.
What makes it even worse he used to post begging people to not download them
because they were 'living documents'. Funny how things change
eh............
Don't get me wrong the guides are great, ppm is great, clay is great, but
the combination he has put together is pretty pathetic. Makes me wish he
would just pull my info that I donated to the pinball 2000 section out.
What needs to come out now is a press release from PPM that they are
donating some of it at least to charity. They are the ones being hurt by
this, not clay.
Sad day for pinball in my opinion. I also predict this to be the longest
thread in 2011!
"Curbfeeler" <danm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5e050e8-9ddf-4368...@r33g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Pinthetic
One, I have donated info to the guides because it was free for all.
Two, The PPM is fine to donate to, but it should be voluntary. Many
people cannot even experience it because they don't live near it. Why
are they forced to do so? How did PPM get this much clout? What's
behind it?
If Clay needs help keeping the guide available I am always glad to
toss something in, but ask first at least.
It may be time for an alternate guide, IMHO.
I also have no problem paying the $10 but it's a crappy way to find
out.
Mario
Pinthetic
On Apr 20, 9:22 am, Curbfeeler <danmye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
MrMarco
Personally, I don't care what Clay does with the money. It's his web
site and he has been extremely gracious making all this information
available to the public.
The business model I would like to see is a yearly subscription to the
repair guides. What he wishes to do with the money is his business.
He certainly has earned the right to some monetary return from a
pinball community that has profited HUGE from the repair site
information.
I would have never gotten as far as I have without Clay's site. He
delivered the world of pinball repair in a manner that I could
understand and utilize in repairing my own EMs.
THANKS CLAY!
Suerte,
MrMarco
FrizFry
(A) Will members gain access to his website... the current statement
does not make that clear.
(B) He's "selling" information that he doesn't have the right to
"sell". Much of what is in those guides were written by others and
it's probably illegal for him to sell it.
That said... if the answer to (A) is yes...you'll get access to the
site... I'm game... where do I send my dough.
Ken Layton
coming on the website.
Toolguy
Michigan to replace Tilt Town with 2-3 other collectors to spread the
costs and then use the $10 or $11 WTF it is from the pinrepair site CD/
DVD sales to additionally fund his museum.
The museum would be legit and no one would have issues with it i.e. a
city and it would not have to be all secret and crap.
Geez, now Michigan cannot even get the $10 from pin repair. Yet again
the state taking it in the shorts and the monies go "off shore"! :)
John In WI
> My problem is there was no advanced notice that anything like this was
> coming on the website.
>
Why? So you (and everyone else) could quick download them and save the
cash?
--
"A man who wants to do something will find a way; a man who doesn't will
find an excuse."
- Stephen Dooley, Jr. -
MXV
remain so and there are better ways to drum up donations.
If it's a matter of needing a host for the guides, if someone sends me
the guides I have no problem hosting them where they can remain free
to access online.
Lloyd Olson
that arrangement ended and his costs to host the site went out of sight ?
LTG :)
"FrizFry" <fri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d04e77b9-d95a-44c2...@r35g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
FrizFry
Perhaps so people who RELY on this information DAILY can do what is
necessary to make sure they had that information at hand TODAY when
they needed it?
Perhaps...
TheKorn
967f4b...@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
> I have a real problem with this for several reasons.
>
> One, I have donated info to the guides because it was free for all.
Agree, and I'm in the same boat. I didn't give Clay the info to sell as
he saw fit, I gave it to him because the guide was free to all. If I had
known this was going to pass, I'd have kept the info and put it on my own
website and on RGP.
> Two, The PPM is fine to donate to, but it should be voluntary. Many
> people cannot even experience it because they don't live near it. Why
> are they forced to do so? How did PPM get this much clout? What's
> behind it?
Issue number one wouldn't be so bad as long as I had a choice of, say,
donating to the IPDB or the PPM. I have a (personal) problem with the
PPM, and will never donate to it as a result. But I'd be all over
donating to the IPDB; that's far more "in the spirit" in my book. (IPDB
is a shared community resource; PPM/PPE ONLY serves California, and a
small subsection of California at that.)
> If Clay needs help keeping the guide available I am always glad to
> toss something in, but ask first at least.
>
> It may be time for an alternate guide, IMHO.
Well Mark Clayton should have something to say about this; he's footing
the bandwidth bill on pinrepair.com . Seeing as how he lives on the east
coast he may not be down with this plan at all. (...maybe, I'm sure
he'll chime in soon enough.)
> I also have no problem paying the $10 but it's a crappy way to find
> out.
....yeah.
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the
web or on DVD?
metallik
> Ken Layton wrote:
> > My problem is there was no advanced notice that anything like this was
> > coming on the website.
>
> Why? So you (and everyone else) could quick download them and save the
> cash?
We can still download them today.. and many people already had local
copies due to the previous times Clay's pulled the site for whatever
reason. This is just him doing something (again) without thinking it
through. Many people will have no problem with it, but a lot will -
and that paywall will only build resentment for the PPM. You can't
give something away for years and then suddenly "un-give it away" at a
whim.. ESPECIALLY when a lot of the stuff you're giving away was
created by other people.
The right way to do this? Clay should have created NEW content..
another TOPCAST, or an interview, or a special repair guide or
whatever - but it needs to be NEW (and his creation, not someone
else's guide rewritten) .. then offer THAT for the $10 donation.
You'd get just as much money, if not more... and no chance for any
resentment towards the PPM.
Someone hire Clay a PR guy :p
> "A man who wants to do something will find a way; a man who doesn't will
> find an excuse."
Irrelevant to the subject at hand, but thanks for playing :)
Hans
> > I have a real problem with this for several reasons.
>
> > One, I have donated info to the guides because it was free for all.
>
> Agree, and I'm in the same boat. I didn't give Clay the info to sell as
> he saw fit, I gave it to him because the guide was free to all. If I had
> known this was going to pass, I'd have kept the info and put it on my own
> website and on RGP.
>
The alternate result would be to simply find a new repository for all
the info that people provided to the guides. Unless you had an
agreement that he was getting exclusive permission for it, you can
host it anywhere you want, and let anybody you want redistribute it.
It's YOUR property, not his.
And don't forget, you didn't give him the info.... you gave him
PERMISSION to redistribute it as free content. Permission is rarely
permanent.
-Hans
Pinthetic
Mario
On Apr 20, 10:17 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> Pinthetic <pinthe...@gmail.com> wrote in news:580db3af-c259-4b16-ae28-
> 967f4b02f...@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
TheKorn
news:286421b3-dc7b-49ca...@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
> The alternate result would be to simply find a new repository for all
> the info that people provided to the guides. Unless you had an
> agreement that he was getting exclusive permission for it, you can
> host it anywhere you want, and let anybody you want redistribute it.
> It's YOUR property, not his.
I'm fully aware of, and am capable of doing just that. I don't appreciate
being put in this position; it's moving the goalposts after the play has
started.
kbliznick
> Ken Layton wrote:
> > My problem is there was no advanced notice that anything like this was
> > coming on the website.
>
> Why? So you (and everyone else) could quick download them and save the
> cash?
No, so that all this hub-bub could have been avoided and an
alternative solution figured out by the group. Everyone can still
"quick download" them from the wayback machine archive if they wanted
to
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/
Sean Kavanagh
I hadn't thought of you guys donating to it....but my first thought
was it's hardly original content. But these problems are eggs in the
same basket. Easter reference!! :o)
Personally, I don't really care either...I could certainly live
without Clay's guides these days, but unfortunate for the noobs. And
I agree with those who said a voluntary donation is a better way to
go. Pinball people are generous and for the most part and not cheap.
Clay carries alot of weight, and he could have done this better.
Sean
metallik
Clay could threaten you for distributing his copyrighted work (they
make sure to point that out in the paywall) .. of course, people who
have contributed to the guide can then threaten Clay for distributing
THEIR work.... Hopefully common sense prevails and it doesn't come
to that :)
Ken Layton
People who had donated their information/material to those repair
guides and had given their permission could now REVOKE their
permission for that information/material to be distributed.
pinnut
there is a login and password for the site. when you buy a cd, do you
get a user name and password too?
stevenp
Ken Layton;1679354 Wrote:
>
> People who had donated their information/material to those repair
> guides and had given their permission could now REVOKE their
> permission for that information/material to be distributed.
True. Clay apparently does not have unilateral rights to charge for, or
restrict, distribution of this info because it does not all belong to
him. Sorting it out could be messy though, if edits/formatting were done
to the original info provided by others. This could really mess up the
CD distribution plan.
pinnut Wrote:
>
> there is a login and password for the site. when you buy a cd, do you
> get a user name and password too?
I would gladly pay $10 (OK, I too wish I could direct the donation,
probably to IPDB or PHOF) if online access were confirmed.
--
stevenp
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
gearheaddroppings
> Pinthetic <pinthe...@gmail.com> wrote in news:580db3af-c259-4b16-ae28-
> 967f4b02f...@s3g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
>
I found some actual video and audio of the username/password being put
on the site:
Beemus
Gewgle cache saved.
Donation ransom avoided. Will Pinball Lizard see any of this money? :p
kirb
> Now that it looks like to access the Pinrepair site you need to donate $10
> to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at all.
> Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web log-in
> access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will this ever
> go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no details.
>
> --
> Mike S.
> Kalamazoo, MI
> Gameroom:http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
> W C S Owner's List:http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
> Gameroom Video:http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
I don't have any personal comment about who, why, or what....BUT I did
talk to Clay and he did make some statements about why he did it. He
doesn't make any money on this. PPM handles everything and decides
what to do and how much. I talked to him about what you KNOW is going
to happen- someone buys the CD and posts links to downloads online. He
wanted this to be for PPM (guys he likes doing something he likes) and
somehow make money on it for their efforts. He wants to back away from
the guides.
Understand the situation he is in right now...Tilt town was closed
down by what seems to be other hobbists who don't like him. He is kind
of bitter about that and a lot of other things that have transpired of
late. Sometimes you just get burt out on the hobby and/or getting run
down by others all the time. I know there will be a bunch of comments
about how he deserves what he gets and blah, blah, blah. The point is
the same- you can't keep taking from the hobby without giving
something back.
I have seen my contributions get 'merged' into the documents with any
credit slowly fading away. I don't really care as I never intended on
doing anything with that info anyway, but I can see other's opinion
who thought they were helping out a free document that no longer is
free.
Right now, the $10 gets you the guides as they are today. Any changes
will not be covered by your $10 today (how much is really going to
change at this point?). You would have to pay another $10 to get any
updates. That is how it was described to me. I don't have any comment
one way or the other.
Kirb
kirb
> On Apr 20, 9:25 am, PinDarth <msieverdin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 8:43 am, homebrood <homebr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 20, 8:29 am, "Mike Schudel" <schud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Now that it looks like to access the Pinrepair site you need to donate $10
> > > > to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at all.
> > > > Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web log-in
> > > > access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will this ever
> > > > go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no details.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Mike S.
> > > > Kalamazoo, MI
> > > > Gameroom:http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
> > > > W C S Owner's List:http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
> > > > Gameroom Video:http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
>
>
> > > This has been free and available for so many years, and now we're all
> > > supposed to send them 10 bucks?
> > > I would have gladly sent Clay 10 bucks, and would love to visit and
> > > support PPM, but this seems like a backhanded way to do this.
>
> > > Tom
>
> > Bottom Feeder Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get another job you cheap bas%ard- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Whatever, I'm not cheap and I don't mind paying and I will. I just
> think Clay could have put up some kind of notice and statement that he
> wishes these funds to go to PPM. I can see that is his wish, but I
> still don't like giving the money to a third party without any choice.
> There are a lot of Pinball Museums across the country. Would have
> liked to be given the choice of a few as to where the money goes not
> just PPM. I would rather Clay get the money directly, but if this is
> what he want's then that's ok. Still think it could have been handled
> better and would like to have online access as others have said.
>
> Bottom Feeder? I'm at work so I do have a Job. Oh and I won't stoop to
> name calling as you Jumped right into!
>
> Have a nice day!
>
> Tom- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Clay and Tilt Town are not set up as a non-profit. PPM is.
kirb
You could at least pay the $10 and THEN host the guides....sheesh.
For the record, statements like yours above and the people that spew
them are EXACTLY why the guides are no longer free. More people
willing to stand on the backs of everyone else just to get something
you want.
Let's run the guy down, then take his 'gift' to PPM. Nice. Why don't
you throw a firebomb through PPM's window while you are at it.
pinfarmer
However I liked the idea of a please donate button better.
"If anyone has benifited from these guides, please donate 10 dollars."
But forcing ppl immediately turns them off and makes them resist.
I think they'd make up for those who are too cheap to donate with the
loss they'd take
in time and money to burn and mail all those Cds.
FrizFry
Unfortunately much of the "gift" that has been given wasn't his to
"give" in the first place... it seems.
kbliznick
I think you are reading his kind gesture the wrong way. He is
offering a free place to host them if Clay's problem was losing the
current host.
QUOTE "If it's a matter of needing a host for the guides..." END QUOTE
FrizFry
Unfortunately much of the "gift" that has been given wasn't his to
Mickey Johnson
any one organization. I gave the information to help all with pinball.
"FrizFry" <fri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e4aefb46-2438-4717...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 20, 12:35 pm, kirb <kirbse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Unfortunately much of the "gift" that has been given wasn't his to
JeffB418
> I am going to ask to have my info removed. I did not contribute it to help
> any one organization. I gave the information to help all with pinball.
>
>
> news:e4aefb46-2438-4717...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 20, 12:35 pm, kirb <kirbse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 1:12 pm, MXV <punkva...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I agree that something that has been free for years should probably
> > > remain so and there are better ways to drum up donations.
>
> > > If it's a matter of needing a host for the guides, if someone sends me
> > > the guides I have no problem hosting them where they can remain free
> > > to access online.
>
> > You could at least pay the $10 and THEN host the guides....sheesh.
> > For the record, statements like yours above and the people that spew
> > them are EXACTLY why the guides are no longer free. More people
> > willing to stand on the backs of everyone else just to get something
> > you want.
>
> > Let's run the guy down, then take his 'gift' to PPM. Nice. Why don't
> > you throw a firebomb through PPM's window while you are at it.
>
> Unfortunately much of the "gift" that has been given wasn't his to
> "give" in the first place... it seems.
In light of this, does anyone want to set up a Pinball Repair Wiki
that is open and editable by all?
Jeff B
Mickey Johnson
want removed.
"FrizFry" <fri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e4aefb46-2438-4717...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 20, 12:35 pm, kirb <kirbse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Unfortunately much of the "gift" that has been given wasn't his to
darimont
> I am going to ask to have my info removed. I did not contribute it to help
> any one organization. I gave the information to help all with pinball.
>
>
> news:e4aefb46-2438-4717...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 20, 12:35 pm, kirb <kirbse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 1:12 pm, MXV <punkva...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I agree that something that has been free for years should probably
> > > remain so and there are better ways to drum up donations.
>
> > > If it's a matter of needing a host for the guides, if someone sends me
> > > the guides I have no problem hosting them where they can remain free
> > > to access online.
>
> > You could at least pay the $10 and THEN host the guides....sheesh.
> > For the record, statements like yours above and the people that spew
> > them are EXACTLY why the guides are no longer free. More people
> > willing to stand on the backs of everyone else just to get something
> > you want.
>
> > Let's run the guy down, then take his 'gift' to PPM. Nice. Why don't
> > you throw a firebomb through PPM's window while you are at it.
>
> Unfortunately much of the "gift" that has been given wasn't his to
> "give" in the first place... it seems.
This could all very-well open up a can of legal worms for them.
FrizFry
> Well I just sent an email to both the ppm and clay with specifics of what I
> want removed.
>
Sure gunna suck if they've already burned a ton of CD's with your
content included, eh?
CEG
Here's a stupid question for everyone.
Where is the page/link for donating the $10??? I didn't see anthing on
the pinrepair.com site.
TIA
Chas
Brian Shepherd
> I am going to ask to have my info removed. I did not contribute it to help
> any one organization. I gave the information to help all with pinball.
The problem with this is that you don't own whatever you contributed
if it's consider factual. If you written up a section, included
pictures, etc and he used that verbatim, you might have something.
But if your information just covers a method, say to diagnose and fix
the switch matrix on a Data East machine, that would be considered
factual information. US copyright covers *expression*, not facts.
Now, if Clay's site copies wholesale sections that people wrote up,
they might have something too. But he could basically rewrite it
drawing upon his own experiences.
-- Brian
Rompen
> Leave it to Clay to f*#k up a good idea :) I think it would have
> been a lot better for him to just simply put a big donation button for
> the PPM on all the pages, rather than pull them like this.
Considering what Clay's been put through by some in the community over
the years, it's amazing he keeps any of that stuff up at all.
kirb
> Someone hire Clay a PR guy :p
He has ALWAYS needed one of those.
My comment to him @ chicagoland: "Do you notice that all of your
friends have to constantly walk behind you with a fire extinguisher?"
Kirb
kurtok
wrote:
> Mike Schudel wrote:
> > Now that it looks like to access the Pinrepair site you need to donate $10
> > to the PPM to get a CD of the guides. I don't mind paying for this at all.
> > Just wondering what you get as part of the "membership"?. Is web log-in
> > access and free updates via CD every year part of the plan? Will this ever
> > go back to a free web service? Just curious as there is no details.
>
> didn't see it, but I'm slow sometimes ;)
>
> I also noticed that it's no longer accessible via marvin3m.com - just
> pinrepair. None of the text saying it's free has been changed yet. The
> biggest drag to me would be having to login every time unless it uses a
> cookie or something to recognize me.
Quite frankly I printed most of what I needed out because I hate
flipping back and forth thru pages on a computer, and the back of the
pages give me someplace to take notes so i don't really see how a CD
will be more convient.
That said I'll gladly give them 10 bucks for the info.
Pretty cheap in my book
Rompen
> How about Clay goes back to putting out "This Old Pinball" dvd's...
> and donates the cash generated to whomever he wants? Even to himself
> would be fine with me. Tim Arnold claimed they were a huge generator
> of income for the PHOF, so I imagine new ones would be more of the
> same.
Well, they're not selling the CDs at PHOF any more. I asked and
nobody knew where they were and nobody seemed to care.