Manners at shows like PAGG
Pint...@gmail.com
This topic comes up regularly right after each show. My booth was
right across from one of the Cactus Canyon's. That machine ran all the
time without a break. It was hoarded quite a bit and I finally heard
someone ask one guy if he planned on retiring in front of it.
A couple of years ago we had a really nice High Speed at PAGG for sale.
I can't say that any better. It was "FOR SALE". We had to kick this
one guy off of it at least 5 times. He would play it constantly and
not let anyone else play it. He had no intention of buying it and told
us so. He told me he spent his admission and he was going to play that
game all day if he wanted to. He was totally amazed when the staff
told him to move on to another game. He was a total asshole. It's too
bad there isn't some type of rulesheet for conduct at the shows
regarding this subject.
Mario
Pinthetic
Victor Ireland wrote:
Most of the people I ran into were pretty considerate, but I did
experience firsthand the ones I always read about that start a 4
player game on a 5 ball machine and play for a long, long time by
themselves or those that just keep starting a new game with no regard
for the people behind them. Short of "hall monitors" (pin monitors?),
which wouldn't be practical, I don't see how they could make it work.
You can't legislate good manners, and I suspect that the people that
do this would do it even if there were rules posted to the contrary.
Jeff Palmer
always be machine hogs. You can always walk up and say I want in, I'll play
doubles or similar. (kind of hard to put your quarters on the machine like
the arcade days)
One thing we did a the PATZ show was to have four guys on a machine and a
line behind it. Low score moves off and a new player comes in. That is one
solution. That way you can play the game more than once without being
pressured by other folks waiting.
Jeff
David Schulpius
one or two at each show. They just don't give a sh*t about anybody but
themselves. I've been tempted to reach down and pull the plug.
Dave
greenacarina
don't have the common sense or common courtesy!! Maybe it's my upbringing or
where I'm from....but this stuff just seems like a no-brainer to me. Sure
it's an incredible experience to be immersed in that much pinball, but part
of that blissful joy is in sharing it with your fellow pinheads. Everyone is
there to have a good time!
Chris
<Pint...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116213447....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Serg
>
> It's too hard to enforce a game limit (say 3) or a time limit. There will
> always be machine hogs. You can always walk up and say I want in, I'll play
> doubles or similar. (kind of hard to put your quarters on the machine like
> the arcade days)
Give everybody at the show a souvenier token as they come in and pay
their admission. Use the token like a quarter. You could even print
something like "This token has next game" on it. Explain the use of the
token when you hand it out. If everybody knows the rules, I think it
could work...
Serg
Keith Stelter
pinball only venues.People there will ask you to turn on the machine if they
are a buyer. If not the machines usually are not turned on or plugged in. I
used to do all kinds of shows and people would play one or two games if they
weren't a buyer and then would move on or let the next person play.
These days people think that their $5.00 admission to a show grants them a
personal free pass to play whatever they want as much as they want. At the
last pin only show that I attended I actually had guys plugging in and
turning on machines that were marked sold or that I didn't want to be
played. Plastics, ramps, etc. are FAR too hard to come by these days to let
some clown who can only scrape up the admission fee play machines until he
drives away real buyers or breaks the machine.
And if you ask someone to stop playing the machine for whatever reason you
are the asshole and they let everyone know what a bad guy you are.
"greenacarina" <vee...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Project Mayhem
them a
>personal free pass to play whatever they want as much as they want.
Why yes it does! So what your proposing is you pay to get in, play
every game once, then get kicked out? I go to shows to meet up with
friends, play some pins, buy some parts ect. Most people who fly into
shows can't take a pin home with them anyways.
>Plastics, ramps, etc. are FAR too hard to come by these days to let
>some clown who can only scrape up the admission fee play machines
until he
>drives away real buyers or breaks the machine.
If you are that hardcore anal about people who will break your game
then is SHOW is the wrong place to bring it! Take it to an auction or
put it on ebay for gods sake. Don't bring it to a show then bitch about
every person who played it but didn't buy it. I guess I am in the
minority when I see people enjoying themselves playing my games which
by the way is the besy way to promote the hobby rather than the Apu
"Buy it or get out!" attitude. Thats what happened to expo a few years
back and the show almost got run into the ground.
Rich Fife
"Project Mayhem" <k...@areaamusements.com> wrote in message
news:1116258431.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >These days people think that their $5.00 admission to a show grants
> them a
>>personal free pass to play whatever they want as much as they want.
>
> Why yes it does! So what your proposing is you pay to get in, play
> every game once, then get kicked out? I go to shows to meet up with
> friends, play some pins, buy some parts ect. Most people who fly into
> shows can't take a pin home with them anyways.
Nope, play a game once and then go to the back of the line if you want to
play it again. The guy standing behind you has as much right to play it as
you do.
Anyone else notice the 4 frat boy looking types that were REALLY into the
Champion Pub?
-- Rich Fife --
Rich Fife
> then is SHOW is the wrong place to bring it! Take it to an auction or
> put it on ebay for gods sake. Don't bring it to a show then bitch about
> every person who played it but didn't buy it. I guess I am in the
> minority when I see people enjoying themselves playing my games which
> by the way is the besy way to promote the hobby rather than the Apu
> "Buy it or get out!" attitude. Thats what happened to expo a few years
> back and the show almost got run into the ground.
My attitude exactly. Of course, when I bring my worn but mechanically
immaculate MM to shows, RGP regulars complain about how icky it is. Can't
win, I suppose.
-- Rich Fife --
Cliffy
statement :\
Cliffy
A passion for pinball!
www.passionforpinball.com
Bob Rentzer
I didn't play the machines since I was only there to look around... but
I think I saw a post under another PAGG topic which mentioned that one
of the machines was not on free play. If that is correct, then I
imagine anyone who wanted to sell a machine and not have it tied up by
someone who was there just to play it could also set theirs on pay to
play. I doubt if 25 cents or 50 cents per game would scare off any
potential buyers but it would certainly cause the non-buyers to keep
their time on the machine short... and the seller might end up making a
few dollars besides.
Bob
mutt...@gmail.com
i agree, any pin player shouldn't have a problem carrying 5-10 bucks in
quarters in their pockets.
25 cents aplay.
i don't think any of em should be free. unless the entry fee is over 10
bucks.
scott
kirb
That is called a "location" and not a "show".
The expectation is to play free games for your entry fee. Why would
anyone go to a show, pay a cover, and then pay to play all day?
Don't want people playing a game you have for sale? use ebay.
Kirb
Pint...@gmail.com
One, if the game you have there is for sale and someone hogs it, how
can you expect to sell it? I don't think anyone would bring a game
there just for play by buyers only. But I think you have a reasonable
expectation that it not be hogged by someone who has no intention of
buying.
The other thing is there was a Diner right across from my booth that
did a factory reset while I looking at it. Wierd. We all know what
happens in a factory reset. IT WANTS QUARTERS! That may be what was
happening.
Mario
Pinthetic
mutt...@gmail.com
i don't buy sell or restore or collect, i just look at em and play em.
i thought the show part was that you will never ever see that many
machines working in one place at one time with equal access, not
mindlessly push start buttons or have no reason not to walk away in the
middle of a game.
i wouldn't buy a machine at a show probably either, so my input is
proabably skewed a bit. i guess i can understand having to bait in a
buyer with free games.
kirb
someone who has no >intention of buying.
It is the owner's game, so I (as the owner) would kick the guy off the
game even if he got nasty. Tell him he gets 4 games an hour (4 player
game is 4 games) and that is it. It is not the owner's obligation to
make this one guy happy....even if the game wasn't for sale. Removal of
the power cord works wonders.
I don't get the "I'm in a line with 3 people, so I'm going to start a 4
player game and play alone" concept. You can almost see the other
people looking for a baseball bat. How are you ever going to meet new
players if you act like a jerk? Want to play alone? Start a single
player game.
I like the concept of wining the table, much like pool. Winner of the
game gets dibs of playing again (as player 1) or with a different group
of people, but never alone (unless there is no one else to play with).
Kirb
sglig
are some who just don't know any better. I think posting a sign at the
entrances would help. Sometimes gentle reminders are all it takes to
motivate people to be courteous.
Steve
Rich Fife
Cliffy.
-- Rich --
Rich Fife
Bob Rentzer
> >kirb wrote:
> > >i don't think any of em should be free.
> > That is called a "location" and not a "show".
> > The expectation is to play free games for your entry fee. Why would
> > anyone go to a show, pay a cover, and then pay to play all day?
> > Don't want people playing a game you have for sale? use ebay.
> > Kirb
> i don't buy sell or restore or collect, i just look at em and play
em.
> i thought the show part was that you will never ever see that many
> machines working in one place at one time with equal access, not
> mindlessly push start buttons or have no reason not to walk away in
the
> middle of a game.
> i wouldn't buy a machine at a show probably either, so my input is
> proabably skewed a bit. i guess i can understand having to bait in a
> buyer with free games.
The machines were not there to generate quarters so "location" does not
seem entirely correct. And the machines were not there just for play
since most were for actual sale, so "show" doesn't seem to fit either.
Tim Arnold has an annual Fun Night with hundreds and hundreds of games
on free play at his home. It isn't a "location" but isn't a show
either because nobody brings their own games there to show them (or to
sell them). It is just a time for everyone to get together and enjoy
his games and the company of others who love pinball while he gets
donations at the door to help the Red Cross and toward his future
pinball museum. This was my first experience with PinAGoGo but it
seemed to me that it was neither a "location" nor a "show" in that
sense. There is an annual "Antique Advertising Show" in Pasadena (or
used to be). Nobody who attended expected to play with the antique
machines there and it was recognized that everything there was for
sale. At PinAGoGo there were booths set up by several of the
recognized part sellers and many of the pinball machines had prices
posted right on them, so it was different that a pure "show."
It seems there needs to be a proper balance struck so people who paid
to get in but aren't interested in buying a machine limit their time on
machines that are there for sale. Maybe a sign right on the machine
itself which says:
"This machine is for sale and not just for show. It has been set up to
take quarters so everyone can have a fair turn at it." Hopefully that
would not offend the non-buyers. I know I would not take offense but
then again, that's just me.
Bob
Cliffy
record I thought it was incredibly generous of you to bring your games,
thanks again :)
Rich Fife wrote:
> Errr... That probably came out wrong.
>
--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
> One, if the game you have there is for sale and someone hogs it, how
> can you expect to sell it? I don't think anyone would bring a game
> there just for play by buyers only. But I think you have a reasonable
> expectation that it not be hogged by someone who has no intention of
> buying.
Something like this would be best resolved by getting a booth and putting
the game in/behind the booth at the show. A 1-table booth at the PAGG show
is $30 for the whole 3-day weekend (probably cheaper than a newspaper ad and
a whole lot better advertising and exposure at the show anyway).
Turn your game on so prospective buyers can see/look at it. Be available to
open it up and show it, let buyers play it, etc. But make it not playable
if you're not around (not coin-able, not free play).
If you don't want to "man" your booth all weekend trying to sell your game,
or can't get a booth because the hall is filled up, then maybe talk one of
the other vendors/exhibitors there into putting it in their booth and doing
it for you- probably wouldn't be difficult to do- a lunch-a-day or something
would probably cover the time/trouble for someone to do it for you.
Either that, or sell it through the paper, at an auction, or through eBay.
Games brought to a show and put on the floor with other games there are all
for free play. That's what these shows are about- sharing pins. If anyone
just wants to sell a game and doesn't want their game played, hogged-
whatever- then "out on the floor" is not the way to try and do your deal-
wrong venue. Figure something else out.
> The other thing is there was a Diner right across from my booth that
> did a factory reset while I looking at it. Wierd. We all know what
> happens in a factory reset. IT WANTS QUARTERS! That may be what was
> happening.
I was next to you Mario so I noticed these games too. There were 3 of them
owned by same guy- Diner, T2, and one other one. The T2 wasn't on free play
from the get-go- two gals walked over and asked me who's game it was and
said it was "out of credits". I couldn't find the owner, but noticed the
lock on the game was same as the locks/keys we were selling at our booth, so
tried one and got inside and put the thing back on free play.
I noticed both were coming up "Factory Settings" next day, so probably no
batteries in the things. I had to set them back up for the owner the next
day too, so people could play them.
Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com
We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
Also, good idea to visit the show at other hours if possible. Saturday was a
madhouse of course, but there was hardly anyone in the hall for the first 2
hours on Friday and Sunday mornings- even Friday night was a good
opportunity- not too busy. Great time to try out some games without getting
your feet stepped on, etc.
I would like to say that I thought it was a shame that so many games
disappeared after the end of the day Saturday or during the day on Sunday.
I never got a chance to try out the Trident that I was admiring at the start
of the show Friday- it disappeared. The show is supposed to go until 4 pm
Sunday but pins were leaving and people pulling up stakes long before we
were getting close to noon on Sunday, so I thought it was a shame. I
understand many people have a long trip home (personally my trip was about
12 hours but I didn't pull out of the show until 4pm) and other time
restrictions may be an issue, but it sure would be nice to see the show last
the full duration it was planned for. RMPS in Denver went right up to the
last minute for the last 2 years (Sunday at 5pm) which was nice. Shame to
see everything fall apart so early on Sunday at PAGG this year...
Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com
We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
"kirb" <kirb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116273371.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
pinballjim
machine or get into a fistfight with anyone there. So far I've
insulted about 5 games and knocked two bastards out cold.
wolfus
polite to me. A few even let me share space with them. That'll be solved
next time.:-) It's always a pleasure to have Ray&Jill,Scott&Tami make the
trek to the show. they are jems and make the hobby fun and help keep it
alive. Good friend Craig W.hooked me up on Sunday with goodies. thank you.
Rick at Bay area brought so much stuff.
I gotta say thank you to all that bought doors or rails and those cool leg
plates from me. Hope to be able to provide more of those at CAL. Extreme.
Thanks to Steve and Cliffy for the extra effort in the right direction.
I have a guilty confession.....I played a 6 player game all by myself. Craig
and Al's starship troopers had ball stuck but was in game play. I just
happened to walk by notices it and shook th eball loose and kept playing.
You know start a game finish a game. Hadn't really noticed that someone had
started all 6 players. i finally noticed this but kept playing. I really
liked the game. walked away with nobody in line behind me so I guess it was
ok.
I do remember witnessing the multiplayer game being played by one person
last yr now that this has been brought up. I'm prety for giving about such a
thing. But the insert coin thing is wrong at such a show.
If you bring a game please make it playable.
One thing that tripped me out was the heaters being on Friday. Glad we
found the breakers for those. Like to kill Ray, had to go swimming just to
cool off, so I hear anyway.
Timathie CARGPB15
<Pint...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116213447....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Bob Rentzer
wolfus wrote:
> I do remember witnessing the multiplayer game being played by one
person
> last yr now that this has been brought up. I'm prety for giving about
such a
> thing. But the insert coin thing is wrong at such a show.
If setting your machine on pay to play is "wrong" isn't it just as
"wrong" for one person to dominate a machine so nobody else can play
it? Who has the superior right to decide on the machine's availability
to the public, the owner who has the big bucks invested in it or the
$10.00 guest at the show? Maybe the solution would be a sign on the
machine saying, "See owner for play tokens."
That way anyone could play the game and the owner could manage the time
they are on it by handing out a limited number of tokens. I suppose
that when the owner wasn't there the sign could be removed and the game
put on "free play," which would satisfy the opinion that if a game is
brought to the show it is "fair game" (pun intended) for anyone who
wants to become a squatter.
Bob
ldnayman
about the "game hogs," yet I never see it. The big offenders seem to be
kids who likely don't even know they have started a 4-player game.
At Allentown I played literally EVERY game I wanted to, even if I had
to wait a couple minutes.
Tokens?! No play?! Give me a break, if you don't want your game played
don't bring it to a show.
Mr. Drainaball
talk about when we complain about MOOKY. He is just like the turds you
guys are complaining about, except he looks like Joe Dirt and he is
easy to spot in a crowded room.
seymour...@excite.com
whatever the newest game is at the show, 04 allentown the same 3 guys
were playing a 6 player game of RBION everytime I walked by it in the
course of 2 hours. It's easy to get to play EM's because people are
not as rude about that. People do the parking, it's not as common as
the thread leads me to believe, but it does happen. Case of 2-3% of
the attendees doing this....
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
> Maybe a sign right on the machine
> itself which says:
> "This machine is for sale and not just for show. It has been set up to
> take quarters so everyone can have a fair turn at it." Hopefully that
> would not offend the non-buyers. I know I would not take offense but
> then again, that's just me.
> Bob
I think this would be fine if the game was in it's owner's paid booth along
the wall. Any game that isn't on free play doesn't belong out on the floor
at an "event" like this- period. If an owner wants to limit play, pay for a
booth and put the game in the booth, or maybe consider issuing free tokens
for play- something like that. But I think it's the general concensus of
attendees and promotors that games "on the floor" at these "events" are
strictly un-metered, unlimited free-play.
Manners, etiquette, and "game hogs" are another issue altogether.
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
works for me...
;)
Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com
We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
"sglig" <sgli...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1116275417.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Andrew Crabtree
news:nMydnZ4lOP5...@aros.net...
> "Oh look Timmy- she's almost done- it'll be your turn in a second!"
> usually
> works for me...
on pins at Extreme as at Pin-a-go-go. That said, I'm reminded of the quote
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
I find in general the big offenders at pin-a-go-go to be either a) children
or b) clueless. I typically have found people to be reasonable about it if
you point out that they shouldn't start another game when there are other
people waiting. It may help that I walk around with a STAFF badge and have
no qualms about killing power to a game or claiming "scheduled downtime" :)
There is another problem too though. I was there for parts of all three
days and only got onto Sopranos once (I had not previously seen the game).
I would consider myself a completely average pin player by RGP standards.
On my one game of Sopranos late friday night, I lasted approximately 35
minutes. If I am an average joe waiting to get on sopranos, sit 35 minutes
behind a guy, hit start, and then drain 3 times in the next 2 minutes I'd be
tempted to hit start again.
Since I don't post much, I'll just add here at the bottom in a big run-on
sentence that it was great to see everybody there, hopefully you enjoyed the
show, and I am working on improvements to the webpage before I go into
hibernation again (namely, adding a "vendors" page but also some cosmetic
stuff and better links).
regards,
Andrew
Rich Fife
along
> the wall. Any game that isn't on free play doesn't belong out on the
floor
> at an "event" like this- period. If an owner wants to limit play,
pay for a
> booth and put the game in the booth, or maybe consider issuing free
tokens
> for play- something like that. But I think it's the general
concensus of
> attendees and promotors that games "on the floor" at these "events"
are
> strictly un-metered, unlimited free-play.
>
> Manners, etiquette, and "game hogs" are another issue altogether.
>
> Ray J.
> --
> Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
> Salt Lake City, Utah USA
> Web: www.actionpinball.com
>
> We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
There were a number of machines (CTFBL, MM, etc.) in between the aisles
that were turned off. My gut instinct is that they were for sale, but
the owner didn't want them played. I'm curious: does anyone know what
their status was? Did the owner bring something else to the show to
earn the floor space?
-- Rich Fife --
Andrew Crabtree
news:1116368858.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> There were a number of machines (CTFBL, MM, etc.) in between the aisles
immediately in front of mario's booth were setup in the bonus room. Some of
them had major problems, including MM whose left flipper acted more as a
trap for the left outlane than anything. I wasn't around when they were
relocated, but it is possible it was the same MM. Those games had all come
out of long term storage without being checked out first, and a lot of them
turned up unplayable (as did a lot of the EMs). Between the number of
problems and the number of machines there wasn't enough time to get them all
working at the show.
Andy
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
> If setting your machine on pay to play is "wrong" isn't it just as
> "wrong" for one person to dominate a machine so nobody else can play
> it?
Sure- I agree- but these are two different issues that I personally don't
think shouldn't be affecting one another- we shouldn't be considering
dropping "free play" or otherwise restricting game use at events like this
based on the way people are behaving or the way someone feels about a game
they brought to "show" at the event. Personally, I think if this is
something that continues to increase as a problem, then the event promotors
themselves need to step up and lay down some [more] ground rules for
expected etiquette as an attendee at the show. Sort of like having a dress
code- no shoes, and you're out the door- that sort of thing. Either that,
or establish some new changes and rules saying that you can or can't do free
play, coin-play, limited play, etc. It's really up to the promotors and the
rules they set forth for the event. If you agree to their rules, then you
attend the show as an attendee or a vendor, etc.- with or without a game(s).
As it's been so far, games on the floor at "events" like we've had are
strictly free play- no limitations and no restrictions.
What someone does with that game is another issue- if they're being a jerk,
or playing with only 1 flipper, re-starting a game after every ball, or just
standing next to the game and using it as a table for their purse, Coke, hot
dog, etc. rather than playing- then that's an etiquette/manners issue- it
doesn't and shouldn't come into play with how the game(s) is operated when
at the event.
Sort of like at a car show- because some fat guy dripping mustard from his
chin hovers over your car all afternoon does that mean you're going to throw
up velvet ropes and draperies and charge a buck to be able to come in and
walk one time around the car, then leave? It can get silly. You don't want
to run the risk of a drop of mustard on your rear spoiler? Then don't bring
your Yugo out to the show... ;)
The manners/etiquette issue seems to be an increasing problem at least this
last year or for the last few events (or at least I've heard more complaints
about it in recent months) so I think event promotors may need to step up
and mention it when people are let in, or include a note with the flyers or
admission info to let people know that "free play" doesn't also mean you are
"free to do whatever you want"- it's a public show with rules and
expectations and people should/need to be considerate of others at the
event- and not to think that they're the only one there.
> Who has the superior right to decide on the machine's availability
> to the public, the owner who has the big bucks invested in it or the
> $10.00 guest at the show?
Both, really. If you own a game and agree to the event promotor's rules and
terms that your game will be operated under for the weekend, then bring your
game out and share. If not, leave it home. If you are attending and agree
to a twist of the arm to play pinball for free all weekend, or even dropping
in a quarter for every game you play (if those are the rules of the event),
then hey- grab yer duds and come on out! If you don't agree, then stay home
and sort your sock drawer. It's all agreement to the terms of the show- on
behalf of both game owners and show attendees.
I don't think we'd get as many games (or people) showing up if we started
having events where the rules started getting silly- like having to pay an
admission to get in, then having to pay a quarter or 50c for every game you
played all weekend. Or being able to play some games for free, and having to
pay for others. Or basically any other extreme or not-so-extreme variation
on the rules we already have- it all affects the success and future
potential return of the event.
If we do pay-as-you-play then I can just see a whole 'nuther can of worms
opening up- stuff like seeing issues with "this flipper is weak- I want my
fifty cents back!", or "How can you charge 25c a game on this Blast Off when
it came from the factory as 10c a game?" or "For 50 cents I should get 10
balls per game!" Etc., etc. It can really get silly, but at the end of the
day, it's the promotor's event rules that set the stage for the event.
Don't like it, don't show up.
I think we've had it pretty good at most of these events so far- we haven't
had to have many "rules" or something we have to sign that indicates we
agree to terms, or are legally-bound, or a "release form" where the show
promotor isn't held liable for damage, stepped-on toes, electrocutions,
heart attacks, etc., etc. Most events like this are kicked-back and relaxed
and everyone comes out and has a good time revelling in our common hobby,
etc.
The new RMPS show in Denver (last year ('04) was it's debut) is really the
first time I've come close to seeing something more in the line of an
"agreement" that was laying down some rules you had to agree to to come in
or to show up as a vendor or to bring a game in to sell or just for everyone
to see/play. Nothing out of line or anything like that, but there were some
rules layed-out on the back of the registration form that basically told
everyone what was expected of them (and the games) at the show. It's nice
to know where things stand, but at most events like these, this hasn't
really been necessary in years past. But maybe it's going to be an
inceasing stipulation for events as time goes on.
> Maybe the solution would be a sign on the
> machine saying, "See owner for play tokens."
> That way anyone could play the game and the owner could manage the time
> they are on it by handing out a limited number of tokens.
Ever tried to find a game's owner at a show like these? ;)
If this was allowed at an event- for a game "out on the floor"- then okay-
it's up to the event promotor and his rules (personally I wouldn't go to
such a show). But for the events we've had up until now, this kind of set-up
would have to be something put in a paid booth "off the floor" and out of
the "free play" pool. It's fine that way, but everything out on the floor
is considered free-play- unrestricted and unlimited. People's behaviour and
etiquette are another issue that seem to be mixing themselves up with the
ground rules we've had for a while at these events. One or the other may
have to change.
Pint...@gmail.com
reply. The games already have a note that is attached to it stating
wether or not it is for sale. That is a real good place to put a
statement about etiquette. I have noticed almost everyone takes the
time to at least glance at the note. This puts it on every game in the
place so you can't miss it.
It doesn't have to be much. Just something like, "Did you LOOK to see
if there is someone behind you waiting to play this game"? Or how
about, Hogging a game is "piggish". Allowing the person behind you to
enjoy it is "priceless".
Yeah, it may be corny but it gets the message across and it's simple.
Mario
Pinthetic
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
"If others are waiting, please limit your play to ONE GAME only. Thank
you!"
Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com
We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
<Pint...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116371474....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball
> There were a number of machines (CTFBL, MM, etc.) in between the aisles
> that were turned off. My gut instinct is that they were for sale, but
> the owner didn't want them played. I'm curious: does anyone know what
> their status was? Did the owner bring something else to the show to
> earn the floor space?
I'm not sure what was up with these. Both Hurricanes were going strong for
the first part of the day Friday- albeit next to each other- does anyone
*really* need 2 Hurricanes? ;) Not sure why they got pushed back behind or
why the Creature was there- there was an MM there as well.
A Funhouse in front of these was running briefly on Friday but they never
could get it to behave so it went down and worked really well as a drink
table for the rest of the weekend.
The Mr/Mrs Pac pin next to that was ours and it was going for about an hour
at start of show on Friday but sold right away.
"Game status" was really my only complaint about the show this time around-
some were unknown like the above and many were leaving late Sat. and early
Sunday. Wasn't much left to stick around for Sunday- I never got to play
the Stern Trident that I was admiring during setup on Friday- it
disappeared. I feel sorry for anyone that paid to get in after 10am Sunday.
I think we should have some more strict requirements on keeping games and
booths going up until close of the show- it really helps make a 3-day show a
true 3-day show. Either that, or make it a 2 day show. With the late start
we all got on Friday and everyone pulling up tent stakes early Sunday, about
2 days is all we really got out of the whole event....
Bob Rentzer
Ray Johnson - Action Pinball wrote:
>Sure- I agree- but these are two different issues
Ray: Thank you for a well reasoned, objective and informative post.
The Pin A Go Go was my very first so I was not familiar with the nature
of the event or the general policies concerning the expectation that
all games would be on free play. I was there looking for a particular
game and parts to buy so was not aware of any game hogs and never gave
it a thought until I saw this RGP subject. I think you summed it all
up with your several references to the event promotors having the
ability to set rules both for the vendors and for the general public
and without those rules nobody is right or wrong as to how machines
should be occupied especially since some people would know the customs
at the event and others would not.
The one thing that troubles me was a comment earlier in this string
about a person being asked not to hog the machine and the comment back
that he paid his admission and would play on the machine as long as he
liked. I guess that sparked most of what followed because I am sure
everyone would agree that such a comment would justify concluding the
person who said it was inconsiderate at best and a jerk at worst!
Bob
Pint...@gmail.com
for
the first part of the day Friday- albeit next to each other- does
anyone
*really* need 2 Hurricanes? ;) Not sure why they got pushed back
behind or
why the Creature was there- there was an MM there as well.
Ray,
I should have told you about this. The Hurricane on the right lost
most of it's sound. Don Highley told me he thought the speaker was
blown. From what I heard and my experience there was corrupt program.
The other Hurricane bellied up about a hour into the day. The Creature
I could not get a straight answer about.
Mario
Pinthetic
nomad
and on the 2nd ball it zapped out and reset:(
nomad
Steve Prendergast
woman that's holding up the line at the checkout because she's busy gabbing
on the cell phone and unloading her cart in slow motion because she can't
talk and do anything else at the same time to the guy in his Excursion
weaving in and out of traffic and breathing down the back of the guy in
front of him because the guy is "in his way". It's all about "me" these
days in the US..
--
-Steve P.
All messages are scanned with Norton Anti-Virus
Pint...@gmail.com
Bad manners are all over America and not just at pinball meetups. From
the
woman that's holding up the line at the checkout because she's busy
gabbing
on the cell phone and unloading her cart in slow motion because she
can't
talk and do anything else at the same time.
Wow, I was behind this dingbat tonight at Safeway. She acted like she
was the only one in the store. A guy behind me spoke out loud and
said, "want me to break the phone for you"? I think she thought I said
it and gave me a real dirty look. She was completely out of focus.
Mario
Pinthetic
The...@thekorn.net
I have to admit that I play both sides of the fence on this one.
Typically, I'll play one game, and then look around to see if anyone is
waiting. If so, then I'll offer to them to play doubles (triples,
four-ples, etc.).
But if I have a three plunge three drain game at a show, I'll probably
play a second three plunge three drain game. I figure the extra 45
seconds for the second game isn't any sweat off of anyone's back. :)
Overall, the rule I use is just to try and be courteous to others. And
if someone IS hogging a game, if they start up another I'll just walk
up to them and ask them if they would mind if I jumped in as player
two. A not-so-subtle hint that other people are waiting to play, and
almost always they'll say yes and you'll be in a conversation anyway!
:)
The...@thekorn.net
are
> strictly free play- no limitations and no restrictions.
As it should be! (Said as someone who _brings_ games to show for free
play by others!)
> What someone does with that game is another issue- if they're being a
jerk,
> or playing with only 1 flipper, re-starting a game after every ball,
or just
> standing next to the game and using it as a table for their purse,
Coke, hot
> dog, etc. rather than playing- then that's an etiquette/manners
issue- it
> doesn't and shouldn't come into play with how the game(s) is operated
when
> at the event.
That brought a few memories back! A few times at Expo (usually late at
night; 11PM - 3AM time frame) I've been leaning on the game _next_ to
the one I was playing (i.e. player 1 is up and I'm player 3) and
someone asked me to move. I usually feel really bad about it; I was
completely blocking someone's access to play a game just watching
another.
But people are good about it. So it's cool. :)
> The manners/etiquette issue seems to be an increasing problem at
least this
> last year or for the last few events (or at least I've heard more
complaints
> about it in recent months) so I think event promotors may need to
step up
> and mention it when people are let in, or include a note with the
flyers or
> admission info to let people know that "free play" doesn't also mean
you are
> "free to do whatever you want"- it's a public show with rules and
> expectations and people should/need to be considerate of others at
the
> event- and not to think that they're the only one there.
Dunno; things have been relatively cool at Expo the last few years with
regards to manners and etiquette from what I've seen. Then again, I
just _expect_ Saturday to be a complete Zoo, and don't plan on playing
much during the day. (Avoiding baby stroller lane, don't you know...
:) )
> I don't think we'd get as many games (or people) showing up if we
started
> having events where the rules started getting silly- like having to
pay an
> admission to get in, then having to pay a quarter or 50c for every
game you
> played all weekend. Or being able to play some games for free, and
having to
> pay for others. Or basically any other extreme or not-so-extreme
variation
> on the rules we already have- it all affects the success and future
> potential return of the event.
Exactly. Paying a cover and then paying to play is location play,
simply put.
lbarr...@aol.com
Magic to the show with the intention of selling it. On Saturday, there
were two kids playing it for about 3 hours straight.
I thought maybe I should go turn the game off and say it needs some
work, but I refrained and it turned out that their father bought the
game from me.
So, I am not sure if my answer helps anyone with a manners problem.
>From a sellers point of view, I could have killed my sale. I didn't
even know they had their dad there with them. He came later to the
show.
And, on a side note I just wanted to say it was great seeing everyone
again as always.
Craig
CARGPB23
Bob Rentzer
The...@TheKorn.net wrote:
> That brought a few memories back!
While we go down memory lane regarding manners...
For those who are fortunate enough to get to Vegas or other casinos as
in Detroit or New Jersey... how about the person who seats themselves
between three slot machines and plays all of 3 them while there are no
others available. My wife who is a slot junkie is really put off by
that. (Actually I love it because it means less time to lose money).
And how about when we were kids and didn't want anyone next to us at
the movie theater so we claimed the empty seat was "taken." O.K. I
confess, I was one of those kids and while I am still a kid at heart I
didn't even remember the empty seat game until just now.
Bob
Pint...@gmail.com
other. There isn't enough room for your arms as they will invade the
space next to you. Only one arm rest between two seats. Besides in
cold weather where are you going to put your coat? My luck I always
get an overweight guy, or "Larry the cable guy", next to me instead of
a cute, skinny girl. Hell, I'd take a cute, chubby girl, anyday in
that situation instead of "Cletis" the long haul driver. At least I
might be able to avoid the silent "deadly one" he lets go during the
movie. Yow know it. The one that lingers in the air for 10 minutes
and makes you gag or wanna puke.
Slots. Yeah I see that in Reno a lot. Mostly the old geysers from the
buss tours. Don't get me wrong, I love old people. They make me laugh
more than any other group. Wise beyond belief but I still like to mess
with them.
This was fun! Thanks!
Mario
Pinthetic
Rich Fife
Bob Rentzer wrote:
> The...@TheKorn.net wrote:
> > That brought a few memories back!
>
> While we go down memory lane regarding manners...
>
> For those who are fortunate enough to get to Vegas or other casinos
as
> in Detroit or New Jersey... how about the person who seats themselves
> between three slot machines and plays all of 3 them while there are
no
> others available. My wife who is a slot junkie is really put off by
> that. (Actually I love it because it means less time to lose money).
Sometimes they'll play as many as 15 or 20. And they'll claw your
eyeballs out if you interfere and break up the extra-special
guaranteed-to-win pattern. I put those situations more under "Don't
mess with the crazy people" than anything else. Casinos love it, of
course.
-- Rich Fife --
Bob Rentzer
Pint...@gmail.com wrote:
> The theatre I understand. The seats are on practically on top of
each
> other. There isn't enough room for your arms as they will invade the
> space next to you. Only one arm rest between two seats.
That's another memory brought back. Silently fighting for who gets the
skinny wooden arm rest or where to put your arm so you aren't being
poked by the elbow of the person who thinks they got there first and
are entitled to the whole thing!
Bob
Lloyd Olson
wooden arm rest to break up the taffy, and soon the theater had no arm rests.
LTG :)
"Bob Rentzer" <law...@lawcal.com> wrote in message
news:1116455057....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bob Rentzer
Lloyd Olson wrote:
> Bonomo's turkish taffy solved that problem.
Was that when they only had vanilla or after they finally came out with
chocolate and then strawberry?
Lloyd Olson
"Bob Rentzer" <law...@lawcal.com> wrote in message
news:1116461205.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The...@thekorn.net
Geez guys, ever heard of taking a date (or wife) to a movie!?? Take
someone you love (or want to love...), flip the armrest up, and voila!
Problem solved, and she's already halfway in your lap! :)
Although that does remind me of a funny story from college. Theater
had these _obnoxiously_ large arm rests. You know the ones, they're
the ones that had a cup holder for a 850oz drink built in...
...except they were a RE-FIT for existing chairs. So they took about 3
inches away (on both sides!) from the already cramped seats. And they
did NOT flip up.
Being an opportunist (and poor college student), I realized that my
Jeep was deficient in the cup holder department, since it didn't have
_any_. Long story short, the first movie I saw in that theater I wound
up ripping BOTH the left and right arm rests off the chairs and
watching the movie in a more 'relaxed' manner...
...and then added the arm rests / cupholders to my Jeep the next day,
of course! :)
Bob Rentzer
The...@TheKorn.net wrote:
> Geez guys, ever heard of taking a date (or wife) to a movie!?? Take
> someone you love (or want to love...), flip the armrest up, and
voila!
> Problem solved, and she's already halfway in your lap! :)
Korn:
You are reverse dating yourself. Arm rests did not flip up in my day
or Lloyd's. We were speaking of the early 1950s when the arm rests
were skinny wooden strips attached to metal frames that ran down the
side of the seats, from the arm rest to the floor. You couldn't even
hope to hold hands with that girl friend because the wood would cut
into your arm. But, it was a good excuse for slipping your arm over
the back of her seat as you pretended to be stretching. And then
slowly... ever so slowly... letting your arm slide down to rest on her
shoulders. And if you had been smart enough to buy her some popcorn
(from one of those unique vending machines which dispensed it in a
paper sack, since it was not made fresh in those days) then she
couldn't reach to take your hand off of her without risking spilling
that popcorn, so she could only shrug to let you know your advances
weren't much appreciated. :-)
Bob
erick...@msn.com
It is a rare occurrence but it does happen.
I only had one asshat get confrontational @ PPE not only was he hogging the game he was abusing it.
He pulled the who the F are you routine when I shut him down and I explained to him that I was the owner of the game and the guy that would be tossing his ass out if his boorish behavior continued.
He then wandered off mumbling under his breath but he noticed me watching him for the rest of the day and there were no more repeat performances.
Eric
Dan Garrett
> See Victor's comment at the bottom before reading this:
>
> This topic comes up regularly right after each show. My booth was
> right across from one of the Cactus Canyon's. That machine ran all the
> time without a break. It was hoarded quite a bit and I finally heard
> someone ask one guy if he planned on retiring in front of it.
>
> A couple of years ago we had a really nice High Speed at PAGG for sale.
> I can't say that any better. It was "FOR SALE". We had to kick this
> one guy off of it at least 5 times. He would play it constantly and
> not let anyone else play it. He had no intention of buying it and told
> us so. He told me he spent his admission and he was going to play that
> game all day if he wanted to. He was totally amazed when the staff
> told him to move on to another game. He was a total asshole. It's too
> bad there isn't some type of rulesheet for conduct at the shows
> regarding this subject.
>
> Mario
> Pinthetic
>
>
>
>
> Victor Ireland wrote:
>
> Most of the people I ran into were pretty considerate, but I did
> experience firsthand the ones I always read about that start a 4
> player game on a 5 ball machine and play for a long, long time by
> themselves or those that just keep starting a new game with no regard
> for the people behind them. Short of "hall monitors" (pin monitors?),
> which wouldn't be practical, I don't see how they could make it work.
> You can't legislate good manners, and I suspect that the people that
> do this would do it even if there were rules posted to the contrary.
If I notice it on one of my games I bring to a show in the free play area (and I'm usually off enjoying the show, not being a guard dog, but this did happen two times at Chicago Expo sometime over the past 8 years) if my machine is being hogged or abused, and they don't stop. I simply walk up, say excuse me, and turn off the game - once I let them play out, the other time the abuser got it turned off mid-ball. If they complain, I tell them to play something else, owners trump his "rights" because he paid to get into the show. Rights and responsible behavior at the show, including respecting any and all stuff, go hand in hand.
Dan Garrett
> It's too hard to enforce a game limit (say 3) or a time limit. There will
> always be machine hogs. You can always walk up and say I want in, I'll play
> doubles or similar. (kind of hard to put your quarters on the machine like
> the arcade days)
>
> One thing we did a the PATZ show was to have four guys on a machine and a
> line behind it. Low score moves off and a new player comes in. That is one
> solution. That way you can play the game more than once without being
> pressured by other folks waiting.
>
> Jeff
I've done similar, but if there's lots of people, only the top score stays. Esp. on a newly released or rare title.