e.m. tech help: sonic faces
pincrazynotlazy
it was supposedly working last night but after 4 hours of filing and
looking for stuck switches it powers up partially but won,t go into
game over mode no flippers no game credits just continual grinding of
reels and solenoid firing .its a really neat old pin and i,m
determined to save it from being parted out ,i really want it up and
running as i,ve wanted an em in my collection for years and this ones
in really really great shape apart from its apparent issues..i looked
on marvin3 but it hasnt really helped any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated thanks in advance .....p.s i have no manuals or
schematics ....
Dr_of_style
Hi
Sounds like it got worse after filing contacts? Or just misunderstood
discription?
If score reels keep spinning, then "0" position switches not adjusted
correctly.
Game should have 1 or 2 switches for "9" position, and one for "0".
My guess is you have gotten them gapped wrong. do any of them stop at
"0" ?
If so, look at that reel close, and correct the switch gap on the
rest.
If the reels do not stop at "0" , your SOL for getting any further.
Good luck
Rod
Steve Yates
What you really need to do is get a copy of the schematic, and then
trace all circuits leading to the score motor. There are normally
about a dozen different things on an EM pinball that will make the
score motor turn.
If the motor is turning as soon as you power on, before you try to
start a game, the problem is not in the score reels so don't waste
your time looking there. (This doesn't mean you don't have a problem
there, but the reels are not causing what you are seeing at this
point.)
If you want to try troubleshooting without the schematic, I would
first check the switch on the score motor itself that is supposed to
keep the motor turning until the cycle is complete. If this switch
doesn't open at the home position the motor will turn forever. It is
generally on the first score motor cam, and usually the top switch on
the stack. You should be able to see a wire going from the switch to
the score motor coil, or more likely to a service jack, and then a
wire from the service jack to the coil. Make sure this switch opens
properly.
If this switch is okay, you can try looking at all relays that would
likely have a need to start the score motor. You either have a relay
that is energized when it shouldn't be, or a relay whose motor start
switch is close when the relay is not energized. A schematic would
tell you exactly which relays would do this, but you can guess a lot
of them without it.
The first thing to do would be to look at all relays in the game and
see which ones are energized when you power on. Very few should be.
If you find a relay that is energized but should not be, then you need
to try to figure out why it is energized. If no relays are
incorrectly energized, then check the switch on the relays that would
probably start the score motor, and make sure the NO switch are open.
Insert a piece of card stock between the contacts to be sure.
If the wire colors are distinguishable, you can look for switches with
the same color wire as you saw between the score motor switch and the
service jack.
The score motor is started anytime something needs to be done more
than once, or when multiple things have to happen in seqence. This
includes advancing the score reels more than once, resetting the game,
scoring and then ejecting the ball from a kickout hole, counting
bonus, scoring and resetting drop targets, etc. Therefore the relays
you want to look at include all coin relays, reset relays, eject hole
relays, outhole relay, bonus relay, 5000 point relay, etc. If you
find switches on these relays with the right color wire going to the
score motor (the wire color on the otehr side of the switch will
usually be Yellow, or a jumper to Yellow), insert some card stock
between the contacts to verify that the switch is really open.
Steve Yates
Team-EM
http://REELpinball.com
pincrazynotlazy
its the score motor reels in the main cab that spin not the ones in
the wedgehead....
BRIAN SAUNDERS
Yes--and Steve and the Dr. are trying to tell you that it's most
likely a SCORE REEL contact that isn't breaking apart fully when the
reels all reach "0" (showing out front) and making the score motor
keep running, trying over and over to reset things, which it's not
seeing at this point. All the stacks of contacts on those score reels
must be opened up about 1/32nd of an inch at the 0 position. When any
score reels are on 1-8, the first two upper sets in the stack of three
will close, and when the reels are showing 9 out front, all three sets
should be closed. If they don't do this on *every* score reel, the
game will NEVER start up right. it must complete this before it can go
on and pop out a ball to play.
And please--don't be tempted part out a pin that *you* can't fix.
It's not that bad off, it just needs a proper repair. Most EM pins
need a simple tune-up and some regular adjustments after sitting
around for many years, and this one's probably no different. Sell it
complete if you must and let somebody else who can fix it enjoy it,
don't throw it on the scrap heap for that.
Brian at Team EM
Steve Yates
Actually Brian, on this one I told him the problem is not in the score
reels. His motor is running as soon as the game is powered on, so
this is not the typicsal reset sequence not completing because of the
score reel zero switches situation.
Hopefully he'll get a schematic and will be able to identify all of
the switches that can cause the motor to turn and track down which one
is closed.
BRIAN SAUNDERS
OK, sorry about that guys. Maybe the short lecture will do some good
to somebody else new on EM's sometime! They're not all that bad,
people...
Without a schematic, he can always lift the playfield up, click the
game on, and see which relays immediately pull in. Those can be
checked out for point adjustment and operation and see if this cures
anything. No doubt the Reset Relay will be one of them.
If nothing gets better fter this, then my next place to look at is
in the coin door for a stuck-on coin drop switch or stuck reset
button. We don't know if the game is moving through all the players
yet though. Could also be a Jones plug put in wrong too. Kick out hole
switches stuck down? Rollovers?
As tends to be the case, it's one little switch causing all this, so
you can't give up on the whole game over that. That would be admitting
defeat, which Team EM members are not supposed to do! I guess we'll
find out more when the paperwork shows up.
Over and out...
pincrazynotlazy
well i got her going 90 % feels good but i had lots of help from you
guys and other experienced and talented folk in my area (you know who
you are ) i still need to figure out why the score reels on the head
won,t ascend they dont go up in values just stay going over and over
tens staying tens instead of going into hundreds and thousands etc the
score and where to get a solenoid that shoots the ball out into the
plunger lane but thats about it weird thing is that solenoid tests ok
with a meter but it just wont fire. i need the two main face plastics
and the piece that connects the gate to a relay its missing anyone
have one of these i can use to copy a pic will suffice? ,and fabricate
one from wire and then its complete and working any hints on where to
find those plastics???? thanks for your help folks it turned out to be
mainly the tilt switch was stuck and the theres some sort of motor in
between the solenoids for the flippers wasnt working properly
either ..i have one other question what do those starfish like bronze
on dials thingys at the rear sides attached to solenoids do??/lol...
man now i know why you e.m guys are so serious .thats alot of guessing
and frustration very worthwhile though in the end hearing that pin
fire up and those chimes are so nice and very loud ..lol.i,m stoked
and i really have to thank the hawk for such a great deal on a sweet
pin.,oh i just thought of something now i,m a e.m guy
toooooooooooooooooooo lol.............drat i,m hooked............
pincrazynotlazy
>
> - Show quoted text -
she,s running 90% i had help though would never been able to figure
this out on my own. a few things like two plastics and a solenoid
tweak or adjustment and a missing piece between the gate and a relay
and she,s complete.......
pincrazynotlazy
>
> - Show quoted text -
thanks steve your advice was invaluable and accurate , correct too....
pincrazynotlazy
thanks she,s running 90 % still need a few things done but she,s a
hoppin and a chimin up a storm...
pincrazynotlazy
note to self its people who are passionate about what they do that
succeed and asking for help even if requiring some humility
works....lol...
Kerry Imming
> well i got her going 90 % feels good but i had lots of help from you
> guys and other experienced and talented folk in my area (you know who
> you are ) i still need to figure out why the score reels on the head
> won,t ascend they dont go up in values just stay going over and over
> tens staying tens instead of going into hundreds and thousands etc the
There is a switch in the score reel that should close when the 10's
score reel is at the "9" position. It sounds like that isn't closing
an thus the 100's reel doesn't advance when it rolls over from 90 to
100. Find that switch... there should be a release that allows each
score reel to slide out the back.
> score and where to get a solenoid that shoots the ball out into the
> plunger lane but thats about it weird thing is that solenoid tests ok
> with a meter but it just wont fire.
If the coil measures some resistance (3 - 10? ohms) then it's likely
OK. You need to trace down the switch that activates the coil and
check that. Do you have schematics for the game?
> i need the two main face plastics
Post a WTB: entry on this group to see if someone has the plastics.
There are some websites with scans, but I don't see any for your
machine. If you can get a scan you can print it on clear vinyl and
cut a piece of clear acrylic to stick it to. People here can help
with that or we can get you pointers to some helpful web sites.
> and the piece that connects the gate to a relay its missing anyone
> have one of these i can use to copy a pic will suffice? ,and fabricate
> one from wire and then its complete and working
Obviously you'll need to find someone else with the machine for this.
Otherwise, I have a Gottlieb and a Williams machine with relay
controlled gates. Maybe pictures of those would be useful?
- Kerry