Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Want to run a Diku, but the stuff is messy

9 views
Skip to first unread message

Sam Hulick

unread,
Sep 13, 1992, 3:20:48 AM9/13/92
to

I fetched dikusource.tar.Z from ucbvax, compiled it.. and that's it. I looked
for decent docs on wizard commands and how to manage stuff, but the only help I
could find was "wizhelp" and it wouldn't give me detailed info on wiz commands.
Also, the "set" command didn't even exist (i.e. like on Apocalypse II, wizzes
can 'set' certain stats, etc.) Next, I tried the Copper code, but
setdtablesize() was undefined, though getdtablesize() wasn't. Weird. And this
is on a SPARCstation-2 machine, Sun 4 (or 3, not sure.. but it's a sun.) So
WHERE can I get GOOD Diku code that will actually explain wizardly concepts:
building rooms, building objects, manipulating objects, players, rooms, etc.
All of it. Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

--
Sam Hulick \ "The greatest of evils and the worst of crimes is
shu...@indiana.edu \ poverty." --George Bernard Shaw
(NeXT mail welcome) /

Jeffrey Boser

unread,
Sep 13, 1992, 6:40:39 AM9/13/92
to
shu...@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>I fetched dikusource.tar.Z from ucbvax, compiled it.. and that's it. I looked
>for decent docs on wizard commands and how to manage stuff, but the only help I
>could find was "wizhelp" and it wouldn't give me detailed info on wiz commands.
>Also, the "set" command didn't even exist (i.e. like on Apocalypse II, wizzes
>can 'set' certain stats, etc.) Next, I tried the Copper code, but
>setdtablesize() was undefined, though getdtablesize() wasn't. Weird. And this
>is on a SPARCstation-2 machine, Sun 4 (or 3, not sure.. but it's a sun.) So
>WHERE can I get GOOD Diku code that will actually explain wizardly concepts:
>building rooms, building objects, manipulating objects, players, rooms, etc.
>All of it. Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

The worldbuilding and all that is done off line, and all the docs were
in the package you said you picked up. Just look through them.

Since diku is hard coded, if you cant read the code you shouldnt be messing
with it. If you can use C, sit down and dig in.. it will take you a
lot of effort and time before you can start making changes. To make rooms
and stuff is easy.. thats in the docs, and only requries a text editor.

....jeff

Sam Hulick

unread,
Sep 13, 1992, 2:07:52 PM9/13/92
to
In article <rhxn1g+...@netcom.com> bos...@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>Since diku is hard coded, if you cant read the code you shouldnt be messing
>with it. If you can use C, sit down and dig in.. it will take you a
>lot of effort and time before you can start making changes. To make rooms
>and stuff is easy.. thats in the docs, and only requries a text editor.
>
>....jeff
>

Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?

Jeffrey Boser

unread,
Sep 13, 1992, 8:44:11 PM9/13/92
to
shu...@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
>Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?

Well, Diku][ is supposed to be coming out soon.. but what I saw of
it didnt impress me. It looked like some simple enhancements, and
didnt make the game more playable or workable.

All the good diku's I know were taken as 'barebones' then torn apart
and added to. You will not find one of them publicly. (why should they
release all the work they have done)

I think as a whole, Diku's are better than lp muds (which are so illogical
from a game designer viewpoint its rediculous), but hardcoding (especially
the *way* it is hardcoded) is its biggest fault.

Lately I have begun to like Uber, with its incredible capabilities
(oh, you have to make a few mods, like putting in a modulo operator,
and a few things like _prompt and _heartbeat calls) seems to have
incredible potential. It can do anything diku and lp can do.. and
has some real nice database capabilities. which neither of them do.

It all depends on 1) what you want a mud to do, 2) how you want to
do it, and 3) how much work you are willing to put into it.

Getting a basic lp mud or diku up and running takes minimal effort,
the same cannot be said for uber (there is *no* object library for
uber, so you start out with only a few example commands, and some
pathetic documentation of U). Both Uber and Lp require you to learn
a language in the bargain. (Lpc has the weird distinction of being
documented only *after* its no longer needed, namely sitting amoung
a huge library of code, and not before)

So play around and find something you are comfortable with, as you
are going to have to do alot of work to get something working, nobody
wants another generic mud out there.

....jeff

Dan Brumleve

unread,
Sep 13, 1992, 9:59:07 PM9/13/92
to
bos...@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:

>shu...@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
>>Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?

>and added to. You will not find one of them publicly. (why should they


>release all the work they have done)

Well, a good deal of my online creation code is available (though it may
take some work setting up). I *did* however fix up oset.c to be compatible
for the most part with generic Diku (it's available from ucbvax). There's
also some other stuff I've written sitting around on atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
in pub/Armageddon.

Jeffrey Boser

unread,
Sep 13, 1992, 11:25:59 PM9/13/92
to
brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve) writes:

>bos...@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>>and added to. You will not find one of them publicly. (why should they
>>release all the work they have done)
>
> Well, a good deal of my online creation code is available (though it may
>take some work setting up). I *did* however fix up oset.c to be compatible
>for the most part with generic Diku (it's available from ucbvax). There's
>also some other stuff I've written sitting around on atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
>in pub/Armageddon.

sorry. you are right, there are alot of extra coders who have made
public some of their mods. Some of them are helpful, and I have used
yours, dan, when i was didling with dikus. But again, for the most
part, the diku's out there initially are all offline creation oriented.
And installing even your mods requires work. So either way, to do
what he wants and to diddle from inside, will require him to mess with
the diku code.

But again, most of the major modifications (like some of the complete
rewrites) are not public at all.. if you want a new combat system,
you will pretty much have to write it yourself. New database methods?
same thing.

the nice thing about diku is that its really easy to get it up and
running, it compiles nicely, and if you know c you can modify it
without bending over backwards.


....jeff

Tom Wolf

unread,
Sep 14, 1992, 4:00:09 PM9/14/92
to
In article <17xn15...@netcom.com> bos...@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>shu...@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>Ok, that's not a big problem, but the barebones code I got was very barebones.
>>Are there more advanced Diku codes lying around?
>
>Well, Diku][ is supposed to be coming out soon.. but what I saw of
>it didnt impress me. It looked like some simple enhancements, and
>didnt make the game more playable or workable.
>

I agree with this. I have spent many hours playing the new Diku II and though
it has some good ideas, such as:

1) A learning system for skills

2) A learning system for use of each particular weapon


Overall, it is not very playable. The game moves slow, the user interface
does not seem anymore thought out than the original version of diku. Such as:

1) When fighting a monster, once it is unconscious the fight stops.
I hate having to type: kill monster, again. The only reason
I can see for this is to allow a high level player to whip
a large monster so a newbie can finish the monster off and
get lots of experience. Seems unfair to me to allow this
in the first place. And for the 90+% of the time this does
not occur, results in extra typing for the player.

2) Exit command no longer shows you the room's exits. You have to
type the whole word exits. What a pain!!!

3) A lot of the almost standard diku commands aren't there, such
as:

a) Split - split gold amoung players
b) Attribute - shows your ability/ac/stats, often combined
with score
c) Where - shows who is in your zone

4) To get stuff from corpses requires more typing than in Diku I.
Instead of: get all corpse (or g all corpse),
you need: get all from corpse (or g all from corpse)

That additional from is silly and annoying from the player
point of view.

In summation, of the game systems I have seen that are derived from DIKU,
I think the Silly/Sneezy and Sequent variants are the best still around,
followed by Austin, Darkshadow, Epic, Copper, and then Diku II. Note, I would
place all of the above muds higher in playability than Diku II. Individual
preferences in the muds, depends upon the players. Also, I mention Silly here
to give credit to the originators of the code that Brutius developed into
Sneezy. I definitely do not recommend Silly due to my experience with some of
the gods there.

Edone




Unknown Author

unread,
Sep 14, 1992, 4:11:24 PM9/14/92
to
In article <1992Sep14.1...@hellgate.utah.edu> tw...@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf) writes:
>
>In summation, of the game systems I have seen that are derived from DIKU,
>I think the Silly/Sneezy and Sequent variants are the best still around,
>followed by Austin, Darkshadow, Epic, Copper, and then Diku II. Note, I would
>place all of the above muds higher in playability than Diku II. Individual
>preferences in the muds, depends upon the players. Also, I mention Silly here
>to give credit to the originators of the code that Brutius developed into
>Sneezy. I definitely do not recommend Silly due to my experience with some of
>the gods there.
>

Definitely... Diku II is an utter disappointment - sure it has its pluses
such as a good law system and individual skills, but overall it is very
unappealing.

To see how much you have damaged an oppenent requires a skill!! It's just so
awkward, and also when you first start out, your stats are all below 5!!

I thought that some of the commands that were used in the original Alfa
Diku were going to be carried over to Diku II, but they weren't - split,
improved who, stats, etc - all are missing :(

Sure it may be advanced than some dikus out there, but it seems so simplistic
compared to Silly, SequentII, Copper, etc....

But most of all, it's just slow, bulky and annoying to play - the appeal just
is not there....

--
[]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[]
|| ~~ The Unknown Author ~~ + //|^|\\ + "Mistrust Authority, Promote ||
|| h3...@midway.uchicago.edu + <{-o-}> + Decentralization" - The H.E. ||
[]=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[]

Matthew J Brown

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 11:44:57 AM9/15/92
to
In article <1992Sep14.2...@midway.uchicago.edu> h3...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Unknown Author) writes:
>Definitely... Diku II is an utter disappointment - sure it has its pluses
>such as a good law system and individual skills, but overall it is very
>unappealing.

I'm waiting until the source becomes available before judging Diku II.
I'm hoping that the internals are a lot better structured and more
easily extensible - if the core of the game runs better, that's what
is really important in my view. That is, of course, unless you just
intend to download source, compile it and put it up as a working MUD.
That isn't what I'm looking for - I want something solid and
well-designed. I can add most of the chrome myself.

--
| Matthew J. Brown | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to |
| m...@doc.ic.ac.uk | Imperial College, | lectures He wouldn't have created |
| mj...@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate | double-sided photocopiers. |
| Morven on Lambda | LONDON SW7 2AZ | -IC RagMag 1991/92 |

Tom Wolf

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 4:05:10 PM9/15/92
to
In article <MJB.92Se...@oak7.doc.ic.ac.uk> m...@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.2...@midway.uchicago.edu> h3...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Unknown Author) writes:
>>Definitely... Diku II is an utter disappointment - sure it has its pluses
>>such as a good law system and individual skills, but overall it is very
>>unappealing.
>
>I'm waiting until the source becomes available before judging Diku II.
>I'm hoping that the internals are a lot better structured and more
>easily extensible - if the core of the game runs better, that's what
>is really important in my view. That is, of course, unless you just
>intend to download source, compile it and put it up as a working MUD.
>That isn't what I'm looking for - I want something solid and
>well-designed. I can add most of the chrome myself.
>

Good point! And one I didn't think of myself. I am not interested in Diku II
as a coding platform, I am looking at it from the player's perspective which
is where my interest lies. I don't even want to download the source, compile
it, and run it. I only want to play it. At this point it time, it definitely
does not compare to the state of the art for playing. It may very well be
better coded and thus have the potential of pleasing the people who go to
the great effort & (in my opinion) sacrifice of actually running a mud.

To all implementors out there, I tip my hat and say thanks! To the DikuII
originators out there, please don't take my comments as reasons to halt
your work. With DikuI being extended as far as it has traveled, I greatly
anticipate how far DikuII can be extended. But please, never forget the
player.


Edone


Lars Balker Rasmussen

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 4:39:33 PM9/15/92
to
m...@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown) writes:

>In article <1992Sep14.2...@midway.uchicago.edu> h3...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Unknown Author) writes:
>>Definitely... Diku II is an utter disappointment - sure it has its pluses
>>such as a good law system and individual skills, but overall it is very
>>unappealing.

>I'm waiting until the source becomes available before judging Diku II.
>I'm hoping that the internals are a lot better structured and more
>easily extensible - if the core of the game runs better, that's what
>is really important in my view. That is, of course, unless you just
>intend to download source, compile it and put it up as a working MUD.
>That isn't what I'm looking for - I want something solid and
>well-designed. I can add most of the chrome myself.

Yay! A man with some sense on rgm.diku... And I thought I'd never see that!
Criticizing a system based on the particular lack of a few favourite bells
and whistles is stupid and pointless... Anything you've seen on any diku1
either IS present in diku2, OR will be a doodle to implement, probably in
a much neater way. The ability of adding more than one spec_proc to a given
object/mobile/room is of course a help.

But... the code will eventually be released, so see for yourself.
Noone felt a particular urge to do the v1 mistakes over again.
(OF COURSE the original db system wasn't meant for release!
It was merely an easier way to test the system than a hardcoded world,
but then started the long night of the numerous v0.0 versions....)

>--
>| Matthew J. Brown | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to |
>| m...@doc.ic.ac.uk | Imperial College, | lectures He wouldn't have created |
>| mj...@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate | double-sided photocopiers. |
>| Morven on Lambda | LONDON SW7 2AZ | -IC RagMag 1991/92 |

Gnort @ { Duke, Austin, Alex, Igor ... }

Lars Balker Rasmussen

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 5:00:48 PM9/15/92
to
Did make a followup to this earlier, but I think my greedy newsserver ate it.

tw...@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf) writes:
>bos...@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:

>>Well, Diku][ is supposed to be coming out soon.. but what I saw of
>>it didnt impress me. It looked like some simple enhancements, and
>>didnt make the game more playable or workable.

>I agree with this. I have spent many hours playing the new Diku II and though
>it has some good ideas, such as:

> 1) A learning system for skills
> 2) A learning system for use of each particular weapon

>Overall, it is not very playable. The game moves slow,

*groan*
And here I thought that the concept of LAG had reached the states...
Trust me on this... With the tidying of the internals of dikuII the LAST
thing you can possible say is that it's slower than diku1 (or Lp, tiny etc)

>the user interface
>does not seem anymore thought out than the original version of diku. Such as:

Ah.... So diku1 was weak design too? And here I thought that was the
strongest point of diku1.

> 1) When fighting a monster, once it is unconscious the fight stops.
> I hate having to type: kill monster, again. The only reason
> I can see for this is to allow a high level player to whip
> a large monster so a newbie can finish the monster off and
> get lots of experience. Seems unfair to me to allow this
> in the first place. And for the 90+% of the time this does
> not occur, results in extra typing for the player.

I see what you mean... MAJOR hassle... From what I remember from my gaming
days, this was only ever changed in bigboy's code? (versions based on that
code need not apply...) But I see what you mean... typing kill fido twice
must be very stressing for your young mind.

> 2) Exit command no longer shows you the room's exits. You have to
> type the whole word exits. What a pain!!!

Indeed.. I might even show a glimmer of agreement with you here... fret not
though, you CAN use DOOrs instead. I must admit that I don't see this as a
major design flaw though.

> 3) A lot of the almost standard diku commands aren't there, such
> as:

> a) Split - split gold amoung players

Great.... And I though I HAD coded that! Let me check... Oh I did...
Well, one of two options. Either I'm insane, or you are stating arguments
you haven't tested yet.. (probably both - this IS a subgroup of rgm).

> b) Attribute - shows your ability/ac/stats, often combined
> with score

And them numbers in score means... ?

> c) Where - shows who is in your zone

I disagree with you there... This is a WAY too powerful command in my eyes
to give to mortals. So you can check on who's in your zone.. Always?
Yeah, I remember using it for testing for thieves on Sejnet back in ancient
times.. when asleep... in the sewers...
You can get an enjoyable game without a generalized where... (Austin doesn't
have one... and you did classify that rather highly in your list beow).

> 4) To get stuff from corpses requires more typing than in Diku I.
> Instead of: get all corpse (or g all corpse),
> you need: get all from corpse (or g all from corpse)

Which in turn improves the possibilities of a LOT of command.
True, the words 'to' and 'from' are there for efficiency of code, but look
at what you can do with just this extra word!
'buy the studded leather jacket'
'get the ancient black sword from the green bag'
'give the long sword to Clueless'
etc... No more buying the wrong piece of leather equipment from the armourer,
(ah... the old logs of alfa.)

> That additional from is silly and annoying from the player
> point of view.

Probably.

>In summation, of the game systems I have seen that are derived from DIKU,
>I think the Silly/Sneezy and Sequent variants are the best still around,
>followed by Austin, Darkshadow, Epic, Copper, and then Diku II. Note, I would
>place all of the above muds higher in playability than Diku II. Individual
>preferences in the muds, depends upon the players. Also, I mention Silly here
>to give credit to the originators of the code that Brutius developed into
>Sneezy. I definitely do not recommend Silly due to my experience with some of
>the gods there.

>Edone

Gnort, Prime Suspect

Byong Pak

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 6:17:51 PM9/15/92
to
In article <MJB.92Se...@oak7.doc.ic.ac.uk>, m...@doc.ic.ac.uk
(Matthew J Brown) writes:

stuff deleted

>That isn't what I'm looking for - I want something solid and
>well-designed. I can add most of the chrome myself.
>
>--
>| Matthew J. Brown | Dept. of Computing | If God intended for us to go to |
>| m...@doc.ic.ac.uk | Imperial College, | lectures He wouldn't have created |
>| mj...@cc.ic.ac.uk | 180 Queen's Gate | double-sided photocopiers. |
>| Morven on Lambda | LONDON SW7 2AZ | -IC RagMag 1991/92 |

This is true. If everyone just took the stock dikumud and put it on the net
we would have 100's of very boring games. It is the diversity and people that
make the difference. If diku II is better code wise and easier to modify
that would make all the difference. I myself have not modified any Diku code
so I wouldn't know what is easy about it and what is not. But I looked at
the origianal code and some of the comments and docs were not in english.
This made it a little difficult to see what was going on.

Anyhow, with all this talk about it. When is diku II going to be available as
source? If it is available now... where is it?

Byong
--
* Byong "the pakman" Pak * These opinions are my own and do *
* aka * not reflect the opinions or *
* email: bs...@duts.ccc.amdahl.com * policies of Amdahl Corp. *
* phone: 408-746-7871 * *

Michael L Forbes

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 11:19:44 PM9/15/92
to

hmm... dan, is your version full in game programming, or just creation?
what I mean is, can I add verbs, etc in your version, is it strictly
for the rooms/mobs/objs/etc...?

James Roraback

unread,
Sep 15, 1992, 12:46:10 PM9/15/92
to
I think many people have perhaps missed the boat here. Comparing Diku II to
Diku is like comparing Diku to LP or Mush. For those of you who have not
logged into Diku II, I will state very explicitly....

Diku II is not the same as Diku!

Granted, there is some familiar landscape (Haon-dor), but if you looked at the
code for Haon-Dor you would definitly see a different game structure.

One must also remember that this is a NEW gaming style. Very little supporting
code in the form of zones and special functions (such as split) have been
written yet. In fact these same functions were not developed for Diku until
a demand was seen. Is necessity the mother of invention? If so, then the
implementors of Diku II have handed would-be mud coders a golden opportunity
here. They not only openly ask for zone coders of any level, they have provided
via anonymous ftp an extensive documentation file explaining how to write zones
for Diku II. And, as if that were not enough, they have even provided a syntax
checker, also via anonymous ftp. How much more of an invitation to help build
a new game does one need?
Don't get me wrong, pointing out shortcomings does provide the feedback that
any programmer would find useful when making additions and modifications to a
program. But, please do more than complaian, take some sort of action. Write
some code, or provide a coder with your suggestions. If a god isn't logged
on the game when you are, then leave your suggestions on the board.
Finally, I would give warning to those who would try this game. Although your
characters may not do much more than hack'n slash for now, the amount of brain
power required by you, the user, to develope these characters is greater than
you expected in Diku. The commands are different, experience is handled
differently, hitpoints are not the same, attributes (str,dex,etc) are not the
same and the list of changes goes on. To play Diku II, your gonna hafta start
from scratch.

But, before judging Diku II, get a better perspective

DikuMud I iis located at duke.me.chalmers.se 4000

Jeffrey Boser

unread,
Sep 16, 1992, 4:40:50 AM9/16/92
to
rora...@rodan.acs.syr.edu (James Roraback) writes:

[big plug for DikuII]

Im still not impressed. Your 'new gaming style' is still not
very playable, and even harder to adapt to our own ideas.
Adding a new stat system (str,dex..) was almost impossible
in the first one, and its worse in this one.

DikuII, now harder to modify in the basics than the first one,
promises to release a whole slew of new identical muds onto
the net.

Sheesh. What is needed is a few, well-written, simple engines,
that make sense, and some nice paradigms for handling objects.

In other words, take Diku 1, strip out 90% of the code, and you
got something worht working with.

Screw the bells and whistles, I can put em in myself. I just
want something efficient I can work with.

....jeff

Mike Hamrick

unread,
Sep 17, 1992, 1:40:43 AM9/17/92
to
bos...@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:

>Sheesh. What is needed is a few, well-written, simple engines,
>that make sense, and some nice paradigms for handling objects.

[ Stuff deleted ]

>Screw the bells and whistles, I can put em in myself. I just
>want something efficient I can work with.

Sounds like you want an Unter, son.

mikeh


Jeffrey Boser

unread,
Sep 17, 1992, 2:55:08 AM9/17/92
to

<grin> already am playing with Uber, dad.

(though I have had to add some things to U, like a
modulo operator and a for (<integer expression>) loop
to do things like check the first 10 objects of a
list)

....jeff

Brian Scearce

unread,
Sep 17, 1992, 8:23:31 PM9/17/92
to
In article 20...@daimi.aau.dk, gn...@daimi.aau.dk (Lars Balker Rasmussen) writes:

tw...@cs.utah.edu (Tom Wolf) writes:
> 1) When fighting a monster, once it is unconscious the fight stops.
> I hate having to type: kill monster, again.

The reason for this, I think, is so that you don't waste time chopping
a monster that's already down, when there are more than one of them.
You'd be better off hitting the one that's hitting back when dealing
with a pack of mobs.

In article 20...@daimi.aau.dk, gn...@daimi.aau.dk (Lars Balker Rasmussen) replies:


> From what I remember from my gaming days, this was only ever changed in
> bigboy's code?

This is a player toggle in the worst mud on the net, Mudde Pathetique.
From the help page for "toggle":

VICIOUS: you are normally given a chance to spare the life of an
opponent when the foe is incapacitated. If you feel that you have no
use for mercy, you can toggle VICIOUS on, and you will continue
hitting, until your adversary is dead, without having to re-attack it.

Brian aka Benedict of Mudde Pathetique
---
Brian Scearce b...@sector7g.eng.sun.com
The above does not necessarily represent Sun policy.
It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

0 new messages