[BT][Design] HBK-6TC Hunchback
Peter La Casse
Through the 3060s, the Taurian military-industrial complex continued
to make use of new technology to upgrade their mech forces. Extended
range energy weapons and double heat sinks, among other technologies,
trickled into the TDF.
Recognizing the value of these two advanced technologies, military
planners ordered their prioritization. Soon, Taurian factories were
churning out double heat sinks and ER lasers and PPCs by the
truckload.
Inevitably, there was soon a glut of double heat sinks and ER weapons
on the Taurian market. Something had to be done, or the drop in
prices would drive half of the Taurian military-industrial complex out
of business! They'd have to go back to making <spit> consumer goods!
To save this national resource, the Taurian government purchased
enormous numbers of double heat sinks and ER weapons, removing them
from the market and restoring prices to their previous levels. The
Taurian military economy was saved.
But now the TDF had warehouses full of this equipment. *Some* use had
to be made of it, so it was used to refit existing designs. Lots of
existing designs. Lots and lots.
One of these designs was the HBK-4G Hunchback.
Capabilities:
The HBK-6TC Hunchback shares much with its progenitor, the HBK-4G: the
same frame, virtually the same armor, the same engine, etc. Only two
things are different:
The heat sinks are now double-strength (and have been increased in
number, from 13 to 15.)
The weapons are now composed entirely of ER energy weapons.
The medium lasers were easy to upgrade - pop those babies out, pop a
couple of ER Medium Lasers in, and they're good to go.
The AC/20 was another matter entirely.
One of the greatest failings of the HBK-4G has always been its lack of
long-range weapons. A secondary failing was the ability to run out of
ammo during a protracted firefight, and a third failing was the
tendency for the ammunition to explode when hit by enemy fire.
All three of these failings are addressed in the HBK-6TC Hunchback by
replacing the AC/20 with a pair of ER PPCs.
As an afterthought, the small laser was removed in order to add more
armor to the legs.
Type: HBK-6TC Hunchback
Tonnage: 50
Engine: 200 8.5
Walk: 4
Run: 6
Jump: 0
IS: 5
Cockpit: 3
Gyro: 2
JJ: none 0
HS: 15(30) 5 (1LA,1RA,2LT,3RT)
Armor: 168 10.5
(allocate same as HBK-4G but with legs having 24)
Weapons:
ERML LA 1
ERML RA 1
ER PPC LT 7
ER PPC RT 7
Cost: 4,124,500
BV: 1,099
Comments?
Peter La Casse
Warner Doles
"Peter La Casse" wrote in message...
: JJ: none 0
: HS: 15(30) 5 (1LA,1RA,2LT,3RT)
: Armor: 168 10.5
: (allocate same as HBK-4G but with legs having 24)
: Weapons:
: ERML LA 1
: ERML RA 1
: ER PPC LT 7
: ER PPC RT 7
:
: Cost: 4,124,500
: BV: 1,099
:
: Comments?
:
I think the only thing I would change would be the ER PPCs for standard
ones. Personally I do not believe that the ER PPCs are worth it. They
generate far too much heat for no gain in damage. Increase of range is only
5 hexes. I believe I would replace them with PPCs remove 2 heat sinks and
add jump jets. You can still handle the heat but you increase this 'Mech to
become more mobile. Your range is still greater then the AC 20 versions. I
think that would make it a better 'Mech in my opinion.
--
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Warner Doles (wdo...@netpath-rc.net) www.netpath-rc.net
Director of Operations: Netpath, Inc. / StratoNet, Inc.
"For every minute you are angry you lose 60 seconds of Happiness!"
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Mike Miller
news:<3b600e7...@news.mdsn1.wi.home.com>...
>
> Comments?
No AC, not a Hunchback. Looks like a 50-ton Warhammer. :P
As a refit, wouldn't it be more appropriate to put both
ER PPCs in the RT? Same tonnage as the old AC/20, almost
the same volume.
I disagree with Warner about switching to PPCs as they
hamper your Swayback with a 3-hex minimum range. It loses
its utility as a short range brawler; ER PPCs retain that
function and add long range firesupport. Plus, per your
fluff, they're very appropriate weapons.
Looks nice and cheap.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
"Theory three is that since most of the humans the Macdonalds
have seen are too dumb to live, there must be a secret master
race race guiding humanity's destiny. Variants on theory three
include the Aryan Master Race Theory, the Inscrutable Oriental
Master Race Theory, the Jewish Princess Master Race Theory,
the Everyone-of-Consequence-Who-Ever-Lived-Was-Gay Master Race
Theory, and - last but not least - the VMR or Vampire Master
Race Theory."
--Robert Frezza, The Vampire Master Race Theory
Peter La Casse
wrote:
>Peter La Casse <peter_...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:<3b600e7...@news.mdsn1.wi.home.com>...
>>
>> Comments?
>
>No AC, not a Hunchback. Looks like a 50-ton Warhammer. :P
If they had created a 50 ton Warhammer, it couldn't possibly be worse
than the level 2 Warhammers they did create.
>As a refit, wouldn't it be more appropriate to put both
>ER PPCs in the RT? Same tonnage as the old AC/20, almost
>the same volume.
That's where they started, but I had to fill up the other torso with
DHS anyway, and I figured that if the Hunchback IIC could have
balanced torso weapons and still be a Hunchback, so could this one.
And I wanted to avoid the "eggs in one basket" syndrome that cost me
7/8ths of my HBK-4P's firepower last night...
Peter La Casse
Peter La Casse
wrote:
>Posted and emailed
>
>"Peter La Casse" wrote in message...
>
>: JJ: none 0
>: HS: 15(30) 5 (1LA,1RA,2LT,3RT)
>: Armor: 168 10.5
>: (allocate same as HBK-4G but with legs having 24)
>: Weapons:
>: ERML LA 1
>: ERML RA 1
>: ER PPC LT 7
>: ER PPC RT 7
>:
>: Cost: 4,124,500
>: BV: 1,099
>I think the only thing I would change would be the ER PPCs for standard
>ones. Personally I do not believe that the ER PPCs are worth it. They
>generate far too much heat for no gain in damage. Increase of range is only
>5 hexes. I believe I would replace them with PPCs remove 2 heat sinks and
>add jump jets. You can still handle the heat but you increase this 'Mech to
>become more mobile. Your range is still greater then the AC 20 versions. I
>think that would make it a better 'Mech in my opinion.
Jump jets are certainly nice, but they're harder to field refit.
As far as ER PPCs are concerned, there are two primary benefits over
standard PPCs, in my opinion, other than the longer range:
1. better range brackets: this is way important - 7 hexes is short
range! Yikes! 14 is medium! That's as good as LRMs!
2. no minimum range - this is very important for a city fighter, and
for slow mechs in general.
Originally this mech was going to only have 1 ER PPC, but then there
would be sooo much extra tonnage... it could have gone 6/9, and at
that point, you're probably better off refitting the Phoenix Hawk or
Chameleon.
Peter La Casse
Warner Doles
:
: I disagree with Warner about switching to PPCs as they
: hamper your Swayback with a 3-hex minimum range. It loses
: its utility as a short range brawler; ER PPCs retain that
: function and add long range firesupport. Plus, per your
: fluff, they're very appropriate weapons.
Figures! :)
Though I can see your line of reasoning here, I do not believe that in the
current form of the ER PPC it is worth the extra 5 points of heat just to
gain 5 hexes in range. That can be overcome easily by maneuvering into
position. And concerning the minimum 3 hexes so what. If some one has
closed on your position and they are when in that limit, then you have done
some extremely wrong in not keep them at bay, disabled them or destroyed
them. If you are worried about that, then drop 2 more heat sinks and add 2
more ER Medium lasers. That gives you alot of fire power at short to medium
ranges. And the Mech can still handle the heat and run. But that's just my
opinion! :)
--
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Warner Doles (str...@wbu-bt.com) / www.wbu-bt.com
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
<IXOUS><
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Adam Froehlig
Peter: go to http://www.ajfroggie.com/battletech/mechs/hbk-o.htm
...scroll down to the bottom config (and the fluff).
Froggie | http://www.ajfroggie.com/battletech/
Ronald C.-L. Kan
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:58:53 -0700, Mike Miller <cra...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >As a refit, wouldn't it be more appropriate to put both
> >ER PPCs in the RT? Same tonnage as the old AC/20, almost
> >the same volume.
>
> That's where they started, but I had to fill up the other torso with
> DHS anyway, and I figured that if the Hunchback IIC could have
> balanced torso weapons and still be a Hunchback, so could this one.
1. The balanced torso weapons remind of the Hunchback IIC.
2. Personally, I would have stripped the extra DHS and used the tonnage
to fit in a Gauss Rifle (I really looove those things).
3. Warner made a good point ... I would go with standard PPCs instead of
the ER versions ... I'd save the tonnage from stripping out DHS and
instead mount some additonal ER MLs or even go with MPLs if you're
concerned about the minimum range thing. This greatly increases overall
firepower.
(For some reason, I still like the old PPCs ... for example, I kept them
in my Hatamoto-Chi redesign ... BTW, did you ever see that, I recall you
commented that the main post never showed up).
Ron
Mike Miller
news:<9jpuov$v...@library2.airnews.net>...
> Though I can see your line of reasoning here, I do not believe that in the
> current form of the ER PPC it is worth the extra 5 points of heat just to
> gain 5 hexes in range. That can be overcome easily by maneuvering into
> position.
Of course, the HB with the 2 ER PPCs can also maneuver. And sometimes
it's wise to stay put, in which case the extra range is a nice touch.
Good point of about ER MLs and the PPCs' minimum range, though. There's
something to be said for either-or weapon arrays.
Brian Brunner
>Overview:
>Through the 3060s, ... making <spit> consumer goods!
>
>To save this national resource, ... the HBK-4G Hunchback.
>
>Capabilities:
>The HBK-6TC Hunchback ... progenitor, the HBK-4G:
...
>The weapons are now composed entirely of ER energy weapons.
>
...
>Comments?
An Atlas variant with jump jets and without hands, isn't an Atlas.
Without an AC/LBX/Ultra 20, it isn't a Hunchback.
>Peter La Casse
I'd sooner the TC/TDF invented the AC/15, averaging tons, crits, range, and
shots/ton of AC/10 & AC/20.
--
Brian Brunner
911: Gov't Sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.
1911: a gun in the hand beats two on the phone.
Guns cause crime like pencils cause libel.
Gun Control: Preferring more rape victims rather than more dead rapists.
The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
This is not a .sig, it's a .glock! *jeesh*
Peter La Casse
<roadr...@madbbs.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Peter La Casse <peter_...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>The weapons are now composed entirely of ER energy weapons.
>An Atlas variant with jump jets and without hands, isn't an Atlas.
>
>Without an AC/LBX/Ultra 20, it isn't a Hunchback.
Like the HBK-4H, HBK-4J, HBK-4N, HBK-4P, HBK-4SP, HBK-5P?
There are more Hunchback variants without AC20 class weapons than
with, I think; the AC20 class variants: HBK-4G, HBK-5M, HBK-5N,
HBK-5S, HBK-5H; ok, if you include the Hunchback IIC, they're tied in
number.
>I'd sooner the TC/TDF invented the AC/15, averaging tons, crits,
>range, and shots/ton of AC/10 & AC/20.
The last thing we need is another head chopping weapon. :)
Peter La Casse
Brian Brunner
wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:42:16 -0400, Brian Brunner
><roadr...@madbbs.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Peter La Casse <peter_...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>>The weapons are now composed entirely of ER energy weapons.
>
>>An Atlas variant with jump jets and without hands, isn't an Atlas.
>>
>>Without an AC/LBX/Ultra 20, it isn't a Hunchback.
>
>Like the HBK-4H, HBK-4J, HBK-4N, HBK-4P, HBK-4SP, HBK-5P?
I haven't got all the books, so you've caught me unawares.
The only Hunchbacks I've seen have one, or two, AC (or Ultra) 20's.
Thanks for curing me of (a bit of) my ignorance.
>There are more Hunchback variants without AC20 class weapons than
>with, I think; the AC20 class variants: HBK-4G, HBK-5M, HBK-5N,
>HBK-5S, HBK-5H; ok, if you include the Hunchback IIC, they're tied in
>number.
(I'm just fir to be tied.)
>>I'd sooner the TC/TDF invented the AC/15, averaging tons, crits,
>>range, and shots/ton of AC/10 & AC/20.
>
>The last thing we need is another head chopping weapon. :)
I agree... but what I'd do about it is something I've mentioned but nobody
liked: At long range, the various hits of an AC (it being a burst-file
weapon) are dispersed among several hit locations; lasers and PPCs just loose
strength at range. Head-chopping is still a possibility at short range, but
requires fantastic luck at long range.
Second 'headchop cure' is increase head armor, or make armored cockpits (a
level 3 rule) standard.
3rd is that destroying the cockpit disables the mech but doesn't automatically
kill the pilot.
4th is putting heat-resistant Elemental-class powered battle armor on a mech
pilot (say, the Salamander version).
>Peter La Casse
nadin brzezinski
>pilot (say, the Salamander version).
How?
Though theoretically possible not under any rules I know off.
Though I guess we could make that Level 4, house Rules? And just use the
Ferrofibrous for it, and increase cits?
I mean that is a heck of an advantage.
Nadin Brzezinski
Freelance Writer
http://hometown.aol.com/nadinb/myhomepage/profile.html
MW 3 lifepaths and other goodies
http://hometown.aol.com/nadinb/myhomepage/rant.html
Brian Brunner
>>Put the Pilot in heat-resistant Elemental-class powered battle armor
>>(Salamander aemor).
>
>How?
>
>Though theoretically possible not under any rules I know off.
Me neither... points 1-3 were rules changes to address the concern at hand.
>Though I guess we could make that Level 4, house Rules? And just use the
>Ferrofibrous for it, and increase crits?
>
>I mean that is a heck of an advantage.
Amen!
"Kill my 'Mech and I'll jump out, run over there, and TOAST you!"
Allowing an armored cockpit that (say) takes two crits, 4 tons weight, and can
withstand 8 points of damage means you gotta put 20 points into the head
before you reach the pilot. 6 points worth of Elemental Battle Armor could be
added, making Pilot death harder to achieve, and falling damage wouldn't
(necessarily) equal a pilot hit.
Dominic Vu
heavy bulky armor inside it? I can't really see that option, and also
I read somewhere (probably fluff), the limitations of size inside a
cockpit may not be enough for a pilot wearing super armor.
Dominic
Brian Brunner <roadr...@madbbs.com> wrote in message
news:<4uc3mts85jj1edqqa...@4ax.com>...
Brian Brunner
>Isn't it stuffy enough inside a mech cockpit
It's not stuffier still inside powered battle armor? That doesn't stop
elementals, nor MechInf!
>and pilots decide to wear heavy bulky armor inside it?
It's stuffy inside a coffin, too.
>I can't really see that option, and also
>I read somewhere (probably fluff), the limitations of size inside a
>cockpit may not be enough for a pilot wearing super armor.
I never read (or heard of) fluff or novels promoting small-bodied pilots
(Victor being a small among men but normal among mech pilots) because
cockpits were cramped...
>Dominic
There's always room for a full-sized passenger when the story calls for it
(Kai's future wife, with Kai, in a hatchetman; wounded Alexi Malenkov, with
Craon, in Craon's 'Mech; Redburn & Lestrade in his 'Mech)
Putting the pilot in an armor suit shouldn't be difficult.
>Brian Brunner wrote
>>
>> 4th is putting heat-resistant Elemental-class powered battle armor on a mech
>> pilot (say, the Salamander version).
>>
>> >Peter La Casse
--
nadin brzezinski
Actually the limitation is two fold:
1.- Size of most cokcpits, granted plot all cockpits do have a small rider seat
2.- And this is the most important one, pilots wear brieft and a vest to keep
their core body temperature down, as in... the true limitation is the heat
generated by teh Mech taht can kill a pilot.
That is the limitation... well and game balance, but that never counts right
;-)
James Sutherland
> 2.- And this is the most important one, pilots wear brieft and a vest to keep
> their core body temperature down, as in... the true limitation is the heat
> generated by teh Mech taht can kill a pilot.
>
> That is the limitation... well and game balance, but that never counts right
> ;-)
Ignoring game balance for a moment here... those battle armour suits,
especially
any heat resistant ones, would have quite nice coolant systems, the perfect
thing
to keep core body temperature down, just as, if not more effective than a
SL-era
full body coolant suit.
James Sutherland
normally my newsreader is quite good about them
nadin brzezinski
>especially
>any heat resistant ones, would have quite nice coolant systems, the perfect
>thing
>to keep core body temperature down, just as, if not more effective than a
>SL-era
>full body coolant suit.
>
>
A power armor suit IS NOT as flexible as a SL ear full combat suit.
now taht is a real life limitation.. though I like the concept for my own
work... not battletech, not at all!
simnlee
high-kicking electrons to spell out:>>>Put the Pilot in heat-resistant Elemental-class powered battle armor
>>>(Salamander aemor).
[snip]
>>I mean that is a heck of an advantage.
>Amen!
>"Kill my 'Mech and I'll jump out, run over there, and TOAST you!"
One of the homegrown Marauder mods in my last gaming group had an extra
ton left over after the changes but IIRC no crits to spare. So we always
joked that that's where the pilot stashed the Kanazuchi suit ;)
--
(-o-) A L L D O N E ! B Y E B Y E ! <*>
| __ "Senso, anything on your radar?" |
| (__ * _ _ _ _ "Nothing but my forehead, sir." |
| __)|| | |(_)| \ --Courtesy of G. Permann |
|___________________________________________________________________|
James Sutherland
> One of the homegrown Marauder mods in my last gaming group had an
> extra
> ton left over after the changes but IIRC no crits to spare. So we always
> joked that that's where the pilot stashed the Kanazuchi suit ;)
Well, it would make hazardous environment ops much safer for the pilot...oh
darn,
head breached, good thing I've got my own self-contained life support system!
Oh,
and a few extra points of armour. :)
Ronald C.-L. Kan
> There's always room for a full-sized passenger when the story calls for it
> (Kai's future wife, with Kai, in a hatchetman; wounded Alexi Malenkov, with
> Craon, in Craon's 'Mech; Redburn & Lestrade in his 'Mech)
Also:
Clovis and Dan Allard in a Wolfhound (well, technically Clovis is a
dwarf, but still ...)
Alex Mallory and Justin Xiang-Allard in Yen-lo-Wang
Mike Miller
news:<95183455.01072...@posting.google.com>...
> Isn't it stuffy enough inside a mech cockpit and pilots decide to wear
> heavy bulky armor inside it? I can't really see that option, and also
> I read somewhere (probably fluff), the limitations of size inside a
> cockpit may not be enough for a pilot wearing super armor.
Heavy armor in the cockpit is banned in some book or another -
probably Mechwarrior - so the elemental armor comment is a joke.
Though Elemental armors DO have their own life support and thus
cooling system.
In fact, I'd be surprised if any heavy infantry armor didn't
have a cooling system of some sort. Lightweight, water-circulating
undersuits might've been developed by rocket scientists, but
they aren't exactly rocket science. Just plug that into the
cockpit's life support system.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
ronenta
For curiousity's sake, are you THE Warner Doles that was appeared in
the Capellan Solution novel by Loren L Coleman? I remember hearing
that the character's name was lended from a real person.
Thanks,
Ronen
Warner Doles
: Hello,
greets
: For curiousity's sake, are you THE Warner Doles that was appeared in
: the Capellan Solution novel by Loren L Coleman? I remember hearing
: that the character's name was lended from a real person.
:
:
Yes sir. That would be me. And to explain, I won a charity auction to have
my name or any name I wanted to be used in the novel. Then it turned into
the two novels and ended up in the source book. I had no idea what was
going to happen until you all did. That's the truth. :)
--
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Warner Doles