White Wolf - Storyteller System
joshua salter
Are there any others? What supplements are good for each?
Semper Servus,
jsalter
"What is the world made of?" - Thales
Erich Schneider
>What games besides Vampire and Ars Magica use the Storyteller System?
>Are there any others? What supplements are good for each?
First off, Ars Magica doesn't use the Storyteller system. Second,
no other Storyteller games have been released yet. "Werewolf: The
Apocalypse" is supposed to come out in August. The other 3 Storyteller
games are supposed to be Faerie, Magus and Ghost.
--
er...@lighthouse.caltech.edu
"The Hierophant is Disguised and Confused."
kug...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
<jsa...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
> What games besides Vampire and Ars Magica use the Storyteller System?
> Are there any others? What supplements are good for each?
>
Well we are hopeing to see Wearwolf on the open market, hopefully at GenCon.
Other then that there are none I know of.
Each supplment that is used for Vampire has a marble border around the picture
on the cover. I have never played Ars Magica so I don't know what the
supplements are like.
As for the system, anyone can do something like the Storyteller system.
All it requires it having an imagination, and a good story to use as a plot for
a game. This is why I think it is the best role playing game to come out in
quite a few years.
--Angus
_______________________________________________________________________________
kug...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu : GO WITH NO BLOOD ON YOUR LIPS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand? Come let
me Clutch thee; I have thee not, and yet I see thee still. Art thou not,
fatal vision, sensible to feeling as to sight? Or art thou but a dagger of
the mind a false creation, proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?
--William Shakespeare, Macbeth
_______________________________________________________________________________
Simon Seah
e-mail me if the rest of the world knows it.
Simon
Axly
>What IS the StoryTeller System?
Simon, it's a pretty weak mechanical system. Basically, it's supposed to
get rid of die rolls most of the time and just rely on roleplaying. It's
a nice theory, but I think the combat system doesn't work. You actually
will benefit more from rolling the dice than not rolling the dice with
their system, so the system encourages the player to roll the dice.
Say you have attribute 4 in Dex and 3 in Firearms. Using the storyteller
system, you can just assume one success with any target number up to 7.
Anyone who knows anything about odds is going to roll the dice (d10) most
of the time because the more successes you get, the more damage you do.
I wish they'd fix the mechanics instead of issuing supplement after
supplement.
Axly
Arthur C. Adams
>In article <1992Jun29.1...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> joshua salter <jsa...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>
>>What games besides Vampire and Ars Magica use the Storyteller System?
>>Are there any others? What supplements are good for each?
>
>First off, Ars Magica doesn't use the Storyteller system. Second,
>no other Storyteller games have been released yet. "Werewolf: The
>Apocalypse" is supposed to come out in August. The other 3 Storyteller
>games are supposed to be Faerie, Magus and Ghost.
While Ars Magica doesn't use the storyteller system, Magus (when
it appears) will use the "universe" of Ars Magica, transplanted
into the modern world. Since, AM is has a lot of references to Faeries,
I wouldn't be surprised if the Faeries supplemnet borrows a lot from AM
also.
--
The world is not analog. The world is digital,
with an incredible number of bits.
Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist) <fnord>
E-Mail aca...@afterlife.ncsc.mil
J.D. Frazer
who know little or nothing about it? It sounds intriguing.
Thanks in advance.
--
J.D. Frazer, a4...@mindlink.bc.ca, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)
-----------------------------------------------------------
*BRRRRAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPPAPP!*
"MEIN LIEBEN!" <thud>
"You shoulda thought about that when you signed up, buddy." - Valaria
a_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
> Could some kind soul perhaps describe the Storyteller system for those of us
> who know little or nothing about it? It sounds intriguing.
My only (bad) experience was with Vampire. It seems to be very similar
to Shadowrun with regrard to skill resolution, but uses d10 rather than d6
(I've never played Shadowrun, but I've read through the book). The combat
system seems to be a bit flawed (or it could have been the inept GM) -- it
seems it would have been better for my character to not wear his kevlar vest
for all the penalties and the little help it gave him.
The system, though with its problems, looks okay; if they ever did a
Generic System book, I might be willing to get it. However, due to my bad
experience with Vampire (the GM made sure we didn't see the name on the cover
so we would know what the game was about (I made up a private detective), and
we ran our human characters for over two hours before the ruthlessly killed
them and then showed us what the game actually was -- I held back my
considerable anger (the other player wasn't happy, either), and let him finish
the session. I have only played the game once since then, not being able to
really weasel out without hurting the GMs feelings (he has a bad habit of
getting games we aren't intrested in and don't know, then trying to run them,
even though he isa fairly poor GM (I GM our group about 95% of the time))).
Brandon Cope
who has no intrest in running a vampire...
Joel N. Fischoff
>to Shadowrun with regrard to skill resolution, but uses d10 rather than d6
>(I've never played Shadowrun, but I've read through the book). The combat
>system seems to be a bit flawed (or it could have been the inept GM) -- it
>seems it would have been better for my character to not wear his kevlar vest
>for all the penalties and the little help it gave him.
Well, Brandon, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you (as
much as I hate to do that). Vampire, as a whole, IMHO, is
an excellent system -- better than either edition of AD&D
(which I've been playing/DMing for 10+ years).
The combat system IS somewhat flawed (White Wolf is working
on it and a revised system is due out with Werewolf), but
it sounds like that it was a inept GM that was causing
most of the trouble. It is similar to Shadowrun (not based
from personal experience -- I don't run Shadowrun) in its
skill systems (this could also use work, and they are
working on it -- at least according to people at WW), but,
if anything, it seems more logical than AD&D's slow combat
and other systems.
A kevlar vest, eh? What did he hit you with -- a bazooka???
>The system, though with its problems, looks okay; if they ever did a
>Generic System book, I might be willing to get it. However, due to my bad
>experience with Vampire (the GM made sure we didn't see the name on the cover
>so we would know what the game was about (I made up a private detective), and
>we ran our human characters for over two hours before the ruthlessly killed
>them and then showed us what the game actually was -- I held back my
>considerable anger (the other player wasn't happy, either), and let him finish
>the session. I have only played the game once since then, not being able to
>really weasel out without hurting the GMs feelings (he has a bad habit of
>getting games we aren't intrested in and don't know, then trying to run them,
>even though he isa fairly poor GM (I GM our group about 95% of the time))).
Actually, running it without you knowing what it was is
probably good. I take it that your characters were human
(Kine) and then he turned you into Vampires -- a daring
way to do things. The system works best when the players
know little to nothing about the system (I made it close
to a prerequisite for my Vampire E-mail game), because it
allows the players to discover things at the same time
as the characters do. I also find this system to be
more oriented towards role-playing than most of the
other systems I've played (like AD&D, Shadowrun, Star
Trek, etc.) in that it allows you to express more
emotion through the character. In addition, since the
game is set in the modern-day world (usually) a
player does not have to restrict (or increase) their
knowledge level to play. In AD&D, you have to
restrict yourself to the knowldege of that period,
which can be difficult to do at times.
Later y'all,
Joel N. Fischoff
j...@gagme.chi.il.us
[a real resident of Chicago, IL]
Storyteller: "Revenge of the Spirit" Vampire PBEM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick Cannell Eddie "Wheel" Fischetti
11th Generation Malkavian 5th Generation Ravnos
[an unreal resident of Chicago, IL] [an unreal resident of Wilmot, WI]
Rabbi David Schwartz
9th Generation Ventrue
[an unreal resident of Minneapolis, MN]
Axly
[previous poster tells how he was tricked into playing Vampire]
> Actually, running it without you knowing what it was is
> probably good. I take it that your characters were human
> (Kine) and then he turned you into Vampires -- a daring
> way to do things. The system works best when the players
> know little to nothing about the system (I made it close
> to a prerequisite for my Vampire E-mail game), because it
> allows the players to discover things at the same time
> as the characters do. I also find this system to be
> more oriented towards role-playing than most of the
> other systems I've played (like AD&D, Shadowrun, Star
> Trek, etc.) in that it allows you to express more
> emotion through the character. In addition, since the
> game is set in the modern-day world (usually) a
> player does not have to restrict (or increase) their
> knowledge level to play. In AD&D, you have to
> restrict yourself to the knowldege of that period,
> which can be difficult to do at times.
This would be a neat idea if it were not a fact that a good number of gamers
have no desire to play "an Evil Nasty Bloodsucking Undead Fiend From Hell" TM.
They, and I, would be royally torqued at wasting all the time generating a
character and roleplaying for an evening and then finding out that they HAD to
play a Vampire, there was no way to get around it, and they were stuck playing
Vampires for the rest of the campaign. Yes, there are those who find Vampires
a really neat concept. There are also those who find them repulsive undead
thingies which deserve to die. Now, if the GM gave the characters a chance to
get away if they didn't want to be vampires, or let them start new characters
which were vampire hunters (hunting down their previous characters :) ), then
maybe he could make the Vampire system work. However, Vampire only works if
you like Vampires and/or find them interesting.
Axly
"I've always found that Living Steel is as effective a vampire deterrent as
a stake". - Axly
Bryan J. Maloney
> Well, Brandon, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you (as
> much as I hate to do that). Vampire, as a whole, IMHO, is
> an excellent system -- better than either edition of AD&D
> (which I've been playing/DMing for 10+ years).
>
That's a lot like claiming that a particular computer is an excellent
system on comparing its performance to a TRS-80 model I.
Vampire is an absolutely LOUSY system wedded to a very well-built background
(one not to my taste, but well done, nonetheless).
> A kevlar vest, eh? What did he hit you with -- a bazooka???
>
Actually, if I remember Vampire well enough, the equivalent of a .22 pistol
(that's around 5.5mm) will cheese right through kevlar in this game.
Mary K. Kuhner
try only if she knows the players well, and is quite sure they'll enjoy
playing vampires. Forcing players to play a game they hate is a
recipie for all-around misery (and rapid loss of players).
Or, as my GM once said to me (in another system): "Well, your
character is now a prisoner of her worst enemies, with no realistic
chance to escape. You really interested in hearing what happens to
her?" As it happened, I was--but I'm glad he asked. In another mood I
might have found it impossibly dismal.
However, if the players *do* like vampires surprise seems to work out
better than telling everyone in advance what's going on. It's a bit
of a judgement call for the GM. When we played _Vampire_, the narrow
focus of the game on vampires and nothing else seemed to distract from
the unusualness of the creatures. I would have been happier playing a
PC-turned-vampire in Shadowrun, despite the lack of detailed rules for
it.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@genetics.washington.edu
IO1...@maine.maine.edu
dull, luckily you have a few options.
1) Its not that hard to be a Vampire Hunter, in my only campaign of
the game I did this very same thing, I played the very Catholic sister
of one of the new vampires, so I hunted him down and slayed him
then went after his 'creator' needless to say there were many, many excellent
opportunities for roleplaying. I'll never forget the final scence with
my brother the vampire. This option just takes a little creativity.
2) You can wait for the other Storyteller Systems from WW. Werewolf
will be out soon, followed by Mummy(ok there's a horror theme here)
And my particular favorite wish is Magus, the hopefully what happened
to the Order of Hermes(from Ars Magica) game dealing with modern day
Wizards, due out in the summer of '93 (unless WW changes it production
schedule AGAIN).
Anyways, Vampire, like any other system is what you make of it. Personally
I prefer not to play a blood sucking fied, but thats a players choice.
Check out WW's other major product, Ars Magica, you will be pleasantly
suprised I think.
Treena.
Axly
I state my objection to being undead thusly:
>>This would be a neat idea if it were not a fact that a good number of gamers
>>have no desire to play "an Evil Nasty Bloodsucking Undead Fiend From Hell" TM.
>>They, and I, would be royally torqued at wasting all the time generating a
>>character and roleplaying for an evening and then finding out that they HAD to
>>play a Vampire, there was no way to get around it, and they were stuck playing
>>Vampires for the rest of the campaign. Yes, there are those who find Vampires
>>a really neat concept. There are also those who find them repulsive undead
>>thingies which deserve to die. Now, if the GM gave the characters a chance to
>>get away if they didn't want to be vampires, or let them start new characters
>>which were vampire hunters (hunting down their previous characters :) ), then
>>maybe he could make the Vampire system work. However, Vampire only works if
>>you like Vampires and/or find them interesting.
>I belive that the gamemaster had a very good Idea. Yes you are now
>Vampire. You may of been the purest of people and full of good will but
>fate had desiced to raise her nasty head nad offer you a challange.
>What do you do now that you have learend that the world is not as fair
>as it should be? Being a vampire has nothing to do with good or Evil.
>your actions still detrmine where your are considered good or evil.
>Now as a vampire you have new dessires and dependancies that could drive
>you mad. But there is always hope. Maybe the beast inside you now can
>be tamed.
Again, this is a very good idea IF YOU LIKE VAMPIRES! What you and the previous
poster seem to ignore is that there are lots of people out there who have no
desire to play Vampire, or be vampires, or read books about vampires.
Suppose I GM for a group set in the modern world (say some Vampires) and I
invade the planet with a bunch of Spectrals, Dragoncrests, and SevenSwords
characters. All of the sudden the players are trapped in a game they have
no desire to play. They didn't ask to play Living Steel, they don't want
to play Living Steel, and I ruined the whole evening by trying to force
a game on people that they didn't want to play.
It is my feeling that the GM is in control of the game world and therefore
bears a good deal of responsibility for seeing that the players enjoy
themselves. If I introduce something into my campaign world that the
players have no desire to see again (mutant space hamsters, vampirism, etc.),
then I have to respect my friends wishes and leave this element out of the
game, no matter how neat I think it or how great a roleplaying experience it
could be.
>I See that you could not handel fate delivery, so you would destroy
>yourself. I see that you would like to play conttroling all the cards.
>Where the good guys win. and the Badies are desposed.
>Vampire does not Deal with Good or Evil. And if you think that the
>world is that black and white, then I won't bring you to reality. I let
>Fate slap you herself.
Vampires running around sucking peoples blood and killing them a good portion
of the time is not Evil? I've played Vampire, and here's a big hint in case
you missed it in there: The Beast always wins. Always. You can last a long
time but the beast always wins. That is the tragedy inherent in any Vampire
game, the knowledge that no matter how hard you struggle to hold onto your
humanity, ultimately it is doomed. Golconda is a myth, Childe.
Axly
Kent Jenkins
>[...] there are lots of people out there who have no
>desire to play Vampire, or be vampires, or read books about vampires.
There's a simple solution to this. Don't. (I say this more to the people who
can't seem to leave Axley alone about his not liking Vampires. Like the one
who spawned this response from Axley.)
This, of course, is a minor point. The more important point here is...
>It is my feeling that the GM is in control of the game world and therefore
>bears a good deal of responsibility for seeing that the players enjoy
>themselves.
Exactly. And Mary Kuhner said that you should know your players very well
before changing their game world completely.
But there are always alternatives in every game world. I have been
wondering if it would be possible, within the Vampire system, to maintain a
party of /humans/. Even vampire hunters. Or something like Bureau 13 where
"normal" people in the FBI are defending the world from the supernatural.
Still, if alternatives are deserved, it's up to the GM for provide to the
players.
[...]
>That is the tragedy inherent in any Vampire
>game, the knowledge that no matter how hard you struggle to hold onto your
>humanity, ultimately it is doomed. Golconda is a myth, Childe.
Words of a Clansman. Fah.
>Axly
Bryan J. Maloney
>I belive that the gamemaster had a very good Idea. Yes you are now
>Vampire. You may of been the purest of people and full of good will but
>fate had desiced to raise her nasty head nad offer you a challange.
>What do you do now that you have learend that the world is not as fair
>as it should be? Being a vampire has nothing to do with good or Evil.
>your actions still detrmine where your are considered good or evil.
>Now as a vampire you have new dessires and dependancies that could drive
>you mad. But there is always hope. Maybe the beast inside you now can
>be tamed.
>
>yourself. I see that you would like to play conttroling all the cards.
>Where the good guys win. and the Badies are desposed.
>
>Vampire does not Deal with Good or Evil. And if you think that the
>world is that black and white, then I won't bring you to reality. I let
>Fate slap you herself.
Ah, yes, another late adolescent discovers that it is easy to sound cool
by simply choosing not to see a valid difference between preference of
entertainment and real-life worldview.
Firstoff, beim nacht sind alle kaetze grau. It may not be all that
appropriate a thing to say, but it's German, so I can use it to sound
really hip on angst, and sturm und drang, and all those other mirror-shade,
black-leather, post-Kerouacian, pseudo-nihilist cliches.
Let me spell things out in short words:
When I play a game, I play to enjoy myself. I already know that life is
complicated. I already know that shit happens to good people and wonderful
things happen to real shits of people. I already know that, sometimes,
the sweetest, kindest people around get completely buried--even destroyed--
by the garbage that falls onto their heads. I've seen it. I've seen
friends dead. I've seen people steal from each other, lie to each other.
I've seen intelligent, beautiful children nearly destroyed or virtually
destroyed by abusive/neglectful parents. And I don't mean on TV, either.
I've seen plenty of instances of "fate" deciding to raise "her nasty head"
to convince me that the world is not a binary digital phenomenon. Does
the fact that I don't consider it enjoyable to wallow in more human
suffering mean that I am somehow less "enlightened" or less "mature"?
Sometimes I wonder about people who intentionally immerse themselves in...
in...--forgive my German, but it's the only appropriate term--
Weltschmerzlieben. I want to deal in horror, I just look over my field
of work: AIDS research is a morass. There is a disease killing people,
spreading to who knows how many, and companies which might have vaccines
or treatments have suspended research for fear of possible future liability.
I just look through the downtown of my own "city". Lafayette, Indiana is
isn't large by any stretch of the imagination, but the only thing that
could keep someone from seeing the hunger, the homelessness, the squalor
in our midst is just unwillingness to look.
I want misery, I can just walk five blocks (okay, ten, but I just moved
to a better neighborhood). Sometimes I just wonder--do the people who
get off on these "games of darkness" just need a good dose of the real
world?
Some people play games to ENTERTAIN themselves.
Axly
>who spawned this response from Axley.)
^^^^^^ No "e" (not a flame, just a request.)
>This, of course, is a minor point. The more important point here is...
that Axly is spelled without an E.
*grin* Just joking.
>Words of a Clansman. Fah.
*grin* Actually, Axly is the characters nickname. The name actually
comes from the games Dragonstar Rising and Living Steel. Axly is
a Red Sword Power Armor Targa.
********************************************************************************
* Axly * "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly. *
* Red Sword * He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a *
* Targa * constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him *
* * pointed in the right direction. " *
* * -Niki *
********************************************************************************
TheFoxx AJ
|> [...]
|> but the beast always wins. That is the tragedy inherent in any Vampire
|> game, the knowledge that no matter how hard you struggle to hold onto your
|> humanity, ultimately it is doomed. Golconda is a myth, Childe.
|>
|> Axly
Actually, I passed an exit sign for it on the interstate between
Nashville and ST. Louis. To the best of memory Golconda is in
South Illinois. Not so mythical after all! Of course Eldorado is
in South Illinois too. Makes you wonder... :-)
Sheila Wassmer
[In reference to the GM who had player's roll up normal characters and
then turned them into Vampires]
> I belive that the gamemaster had a very good Idea.
Although I find the premise of the Vampire game fascinating, I
have to agree with those who are posting that this was not a
good idea. As 'Axly' quite well explained, the concept of the
game does not interest all gamers. It is unethical to trick
players into playing a vampire when they do not want to do
so.
> Vampire does not Deal with Good or Evil. And if you think that the
> world is that black and white, then I won't bring you to reality. I let
> Fate slap you herself.
Indeed. But as is so often pointed out, the game is not the
real world. Why should a person spend his time playing a game
he does not like?
When I started my Vampire Chronicle, I thought about this kind of
surprise story but decided against it. Instead, after explaining the
game premise to my friends, I had them roll up characters, all the
while emphasizing that vampires aren't real. ;-) The players quickly
caught on and are doing an excellent job of roleplaying what it
might be like to suddenly become "an Evil Nasty Bloodsucking Undead
Fiend From Hell". :-) The players do not know most of their
abilities or weaknesses, so the air of mystery is preserved.
However, if my players had not been interested in trying this game,
tricking them into it would not succeed in creating "Personal Horror".
It could only create resentment.
--
Sheila Wassmer, Hewlett-Packard Colorado IC Division
s...@hpfiqa.hp.com
Wayne...@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
While I understand the point you're making, the answer is the same as the
answer to why some people like horror fiction and others don't. Some people
either spend too much time already with that sort of thing (your situation
from the sound of it) or alternatively, just prefer to ignore it altogether.
Some of us feel compelled to stay in touch with that darkness in the
world...but would rather do it in a controlled fashion. After all, with a
book, a movie, or a game, when you've had enough of it, you can just walk
away.
But as Stephen King said, it helps to keep the alligators fed.
---
Jim Shimkus
>In rec.games.frp, fn...@close.columbia.edu (Andres Harasty) writes:
>
>[In reference to the GM who had player's roll up normal characters and
>then turned them into Vampires]
>
>> I belive that the gamemaster had a very good Idea.
>
> Although I find the premise of the Vampire game fascinating, I
> have to agree with those who are posting that this was not a
> good idea. As 'Axly' quite well explained, the concept of the
> game does not interest all gamers. It is unethical to trick
> players into playing a vampire when they do not want to do
> so.
> When I started my Vampire Chronicle, I thought about this kind of
> surprise story but decided against it. Instead, after explaining the
> game premise to my friends, I had them roll up characters, all the
> while emphasizing that vampires aren't real. ;-) The players quickly
> caught on and are doing an excellent job of roleplaying what it
> might be like to suddenly become "an Evil Nasty Bloodsucking Undead
> Fiend From Hell". :-) The players do not know most of their
> abilities or weaknesses, so the air of mystery is preserved.
>
> However, if my players had not been interested in trying this game,
> tricking them into it would not succeed in creating "Personal Horror".
> It could only create resentment.
>--
> Sheila Wassmer, Hewlett-Packard Colorado IC Division
> s...@hpfiqa.hp.com
Not necessarily. When we began our Vampire chronicle, the ST had us start with
TOP SECRET/SI characters. He told us this was just a test for a campaign idea
he had, and so if anything happened to our characters it would count in the
continuity of the original campaign. Then we ended up geting attacted by the
vampires, and we ended up converting the characters over to the VAMPIRE system.
If we hadn't wanted to, we could have pulled out, since it was indeed a
test session.
Yours,
Peter Gambit