Deep Junior vs Genius6.5/Shredder4
xxx
4 as a full program and an engine for Genius 6.5 Elo 2500 + (BCF 240) .
Results from Rochade magazine indicate it's the strongest program in the
world. " any comment on this?
Does this mean it's up to par with Deep Junior or even Fritz6? Can anyone
tell me Deep Junior's ELO rating using two processors, and one processor?
Thanks..
242
know about interface features and functions though.
It's been a long time since I have heard about the program 'ferret' as
well, anyone know what happened to this program?
"xxx" <mlat...@ctimail3.com> wrote in message
news:8cqj9v$8bv$1...@news.ctimail.com...
xxx
242 <Iam...@chess.net> wrote in message
news:TvpI4.56488$AN.7...@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com...
> Yes, shredder 4 is up to par in strength with Fritz6 & Junior6, I do
not
> know about interface features and functions though.
> It's been a long time since I have heard about the program 'ferret' as
> well, anyone know what happened to this program?
I have Fritz6 so I can have idea about the playing strength of Shredder 4,
but is it really the strongest program in the world as Rochade magazine
indicates? Is it stronger than Deep Junior (not Junior6)? The prices of
Deep Junior and Shredder 4 are the same, and they're twice the price of
Fritz6 or Junior6..so, these two programs are probably stronger than Fritz6
and Junior6...any comment?
pc...@delthis.co.uk
Chess System, together with Genius 6.5. It can either
be used as a stand-alone program, or as an
engine with the Genius 6.5 program.
Below are some more details..
"242" <Iam...@chess.net> wrote:
> Yes, shredder 4 is up to par in strength with Fritz6 & Junior6, I do not
>know about interface features and functions though.
> It's been a long time since I have heard about the program 'ferret' as
>well, anyone know what happened to this program?
>"xxx" <mlat...@ctimail3.com> wrote in message
>news:8cqj9v$8bv$1...@news.ctimail.com...
>> I've just read from chesscenter.com ..."New World Champion program
>SHREDDER
>> 4 as a full program and an engine for Genius 6.5 Elo 2500 + (BCF 240) .
>> Results from Rochade magazine indicate it's the strongest program in the
>> world. " any comment on this?
>>
>> Does this mean it's up to par with Deep Junior or even Fritz6? Can anyone
>> tell me Deep Junior's ELO rating using two processors, and one processor?
>>
>> Thanks..
---------------------------------------------------------------------
PC SOLUTIONS, PO Box 954, Bournemouth, BH7 6YJ, ENGLAND
EMAIL:pc...@tcp.co.uk
WWW: http://i.am/pc_solutions
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MILLENNIUM CHESS SYSTEM
WORLD CHAMPION SUPER PACKAGE - includes CHESSGENIUS 6.5 and
SHREDDER 4.0 (engine & full program), in one great 6 CD bundle!
SHREDDER 4.0
by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
The big highlight, as after winning the world championship in
Paderborn SHREDDER is now the new Computer World Champion of
all classes. Nearly unbelievable is the fact that SHREDDER won
the world championship on a standard Pentium II computer
against some extremely expensive super computers (with up to
256 processors) from all over the world, and still remained the
only unbeaten program! Two other results confirm that SHREDDER
must clearly be considered as world’s strongest chess program
(estimated over 2700 FIDE Elo on a fast Pentium PC!): In March
1999 SHREDDER clearly won the (unofficial) German championship
for chess programs in Aufsess. In June 1999 SHREDDER won the
9th Computer Chess World Championship in Paderborn in
sensational style: Neither the big mainframes, playing on
parallel computer systems with up to 512 (!) Pentium
processors, nor one of the other strong competitors (like
Fritz, Junior or Ferret) playing on very costly parallel
computers were able to achieve victory. Although being the only
program of the top group playing on a standard off-the-shelf
Pentium III PC (with 550 Mhz), SHREDDER was the one and only
participant (out of 30) to remain undefeated. In July 1999
SHREDDER drew against Anatoly Karpov in Dortmund under
tournament conditions - despite a heavy positional fight of 81
moves the world champion was not able to beat the computer
world champion. In a TV press conference Karpov expressed
himself: SHREDDER is a very strong program which really
deserves the world champion crown.
SHREDDER 4 includes (among many others) the
following features:
* commenting function with human voice
* huge opening tree indicating opening lines and statistics
* opening books resp. trees can be edited very comfortably
* several beautiful 2D and 3D chess boards and piece sets
* second chess board displaying calculated main line
* many different learning resp. book-learning functions
* coach functions for weaker players
* supports endgame databases by Ken Thompson
* supports Nalimov Tablebases for perfect endgame play
* huge variety of parameters and levels user-selectable
* older versions SHREDDER 1, 2, 3 and MCS engine included
CHESS GENIUS 6.5
By Richard Lang and Adrian Millett
New ChessGenius 6.5 Features
· Includes new SHREDDER 4.0 chess engine - winner of the world
championship in Paderborn! This and other results give SHREDDER an
estimated over 2700 FIDE ELO - all on a normal Pentium PC! Running on
a standard off-the-shelf 550 Mhz single Pentium PC it beat all
others - not only other commercial competitors like FRITZ,
JUNIOR and FERRET, but also huge mainframe systems with
up to 512 Pentium processors!
· New improved ChessGenius 6.5 engine - stronger than previous
versions of Genius. ChessGenius was the first program to
beat Kasparov at "serious" playing levels..
· Can support multiple engines analysing one position, or analyse
several games all at once! Set up tournaments between engines.
· Browse main analysis - simply select a move to pull up a second
chess board for that position.
· Intuitive Windows GUI throughout. Cut and Paste games to Windows
Clipboard, Export & view games (with diagrams) in Word/Wordpad/etc.
· Auto-commenting module - can announce moves, and analyse and comment
upon play quality.
· Supports & includes Ken Thompson 3/4/5 piece endgame CD's for
"perfect" endgame play! Lists all available moves in order of
strength. Database can be installed on Hard Disk, or ran off
original CDROM.
· Improved auto-analysis features - can analyze databases on a variety
of conditions, including marked moves - ideal for mail players. Can
add final analysis back into database as comment with score, or
variation.
Main Features
Screen display: Information displayed in standard flexible windows:
separate windows for chess board, clock, game moves, search
information, opening book. Displays ECO opening key & name for
current game. Windows can be arranged as you like. Superb
graphics - with many boards and chess sets in 2D or 3D.
"Virtual reality" 3D board can be re-sized, rotated or tilted
at will. Many piece sets and chess boards for display.
Screen colours can be changed. Supported languages:
English, German, French.
Engine: Select from a range of different Chess Engine - From
Genius 3 up to Genius 6.5, or the new Shredder 4.0 engine.
Unlimited number of levels, separate levels for both
players possible. Automatic analysis, analysis of games,
databases, EPD files. Parameters such as selective depth
of search, value of pieces, Pawn structures, playing style etc can
be tweaked for each engine (exact parameters vary engine-to-engine).
If you dont like a move, you can ask the engine for the next
best move.
Each engine has its own window, displaying comprehensive information
about each new "best move" it finds - the score in pawns, then main
line, depth of search, node count. Displays this line-by-line in a
scrollable list-box window.
Database features: Seamlessly integrates CBF (ChessBase), PGN or EPD
database formats. Use Windows style list boxes to save, load, list,
edit and search for games. Search databases for game data, particular
positions or moves, or combinations of these. Converts and copies
databases with optional search filter. Add comments to games with text
comments and chess symbols. A high quality carefully compiled database
with over 500,000 games included on CD. Full support for game
variations, with intuitive variation editing. Automatic analysis of
games and databases, optionally adding the analysis as a comment or
variation to each move.
Opening/Midgame book: Powerful transposition (hash) based book, with
instant lookup. Book editor: add, delete, mark positions with
strength., import moves from old Genius books or CBF/PGN databases.
Automatic intelligent learning feature - when game lost/won, it will
analyze the game to help prevent the same mistake occurring. Unlimited
size of opening books. Initial size of supplied database is over 2
million positions. Ability to browse forward/backward through standard
list window.
Richard Lang's ChessGenius series of programs have a long history at
the top of the computer rating charts - since the early 1980's it has
been PC Chess World Champion not less than 10 times. Perhaps the
pinnacle of its career came in August 1994 when it shocked the Chess
World and became the first program ever to beat a World Champion
(Kasparov) at a non-blitz time level! Genius also knocked GM Nikolic
out of the same tournament, achieving an astounding 2795 ELO rating
for its performance in that tournament - all on a mere 100 Mhz Pentium
PC! This, and other impressive performances demonstrate Genius's
real strength - a sound & powerful playing style that can beat Human
(and not just other computer) competitors. The fundamental power
of Genius's basic playing algorithms are demonstrated by the fact that
it outperforms all others at "blitz" levels - ie, even on a shallow
search the algorithms play sound chess.
This is particularly important when you want to automatically analyse
games in databases, since you do not want to spend too long on each
move. For these reasons, Genius remains a "classic" favourite with
Masters and Correspondence chess players alike - with its own unique
and distinctive style of play. Other Chess programmers have long
looked to Genius as the "standard" program - indeed it was told that
even the Deep Blue team sparred with ChessGenius. The latest
enhancements & improvements to the Genius 6.5 engine are sure
to keep it competing at the highest levels for some time to come.
See:
http://www.computerchess.de
http://i.am/pc_solutions
----------------------
MILLENNIUM CHESS SYSTEM - The Strongest & Best!
(GENIUS 6.5 and SHREDDER 4.0) See NEW pages at:
http://i.am/pc_solutions
http://www.computerchess.de
http://www.chessgenius.com (also PalmPilot chess)
242
it's not the stronger version 4, but it certainly shows it's strength there,
with a rating of 2821, where the average high performing computers are under
2700 there. The frequently used accounts running Fritz 6, Junior 6 &
Chesstiger accounts are all under 2700 there.
"xxx" <mlat...@ctimail3.com> wrote in message
news:8ctj03$4vd$1...@news.ctimail.com...
>
> 242 <Iam...@chess.net> wrote in message
> news:TvpI4.56488$AN.7...@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com...
> > Yes, shredder 4 is up to par in strength with Fritz6 & Junior6, I do
> not
> > know about interface features and functions though.
> > It's been a long time since I have heard about the program 'ferret'
as
> > well, anyone know what happened to this program?
>
Michael De Laet
since it only plays standard now I have a strong feeling the rating is
artificially high and wouldn't be anywhere near 2800 if it played other
strong comps like Chesstiger in blitz on a regular basis.
242 wrote in message <7nHI4.59602$AN.7...@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com>...
Robert Hyatt
> Someone runs shredder 3 at chess.net under the account "shredder3.0"
> it's not the stronger version 4, but it certainly shows it's strength there,
> with a rating of 2821, where the average high performing computers are under
> 2700 there. The frequently used accounts running Fritz 6, Junior 6 &
> Chesstiger accounts are all under 2700 there.
that rating is not established. after it plays enough games to show up
in "rank" then it will be more meaningful. You can beat one 2421 program
and get a rating of 2821...
> "xxx" <mlat...@ctimail3.com> wrote in message
> news:8ctj03$4vd$1...@news.ctimail.com...
>>
>> 242 <Iam...@chess.net> wrote in message
>> news:TvpI4.56488$AN.7...@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com...
>> > Yes, shredder 4 is up to par in strength with Fritz6 & Junior6, I do
>> not
>> > know about interface features and functions though.
>> > It's been a long time since I have heard about the program 'ferret'
> as
>> > well, anyone know what happened to this program?
>>
>> I have Fritz6 so I can have idea about the playing strength of Shredder 4,
>> but is it really the strongest program in the world as Rochade magazine
>> indicates? Is it stronger than Deep Junior (not Junior6)? The prices of
>> Deep Junior and Shredder 4 are the same, and they're twice the price of
>> Fritz6 or Junior6..so, these two programs are probably stronger than
> Fritz6
>> and Junior6...any comment?
>>
>>
--
Robert Hyatt Computer and Information Sciences
hy...@cis.uab.edu University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213 115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station
(205) 934-5473 FAX Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
242
"cbest" you will see it at the top of the computer best list, followed by
fritz 6 account & then four crafty accounts, one being yours. I do not
think it is *that* much stronger then other commercial programs, but it can
easily compete with them. It is also interfaced through winboard, so there
are no mouse slips that may somtimes happens when running it manualy with
non-winboard programs like fritz & junior.
"Robert Hyatt" <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in message
news:8d02fu$r9d$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu...
xxx
> Someone runs shredder 3 at chess.net under the account "shredder3.0"
> it's not the stronger version 4, but it certainly shows it's strength
there,
> with a rating of 2821, where the average high performing computers are
under
> 2700 there. The frequently used accounts running Fritz 6, Junior 6 &
> Chesstiger accounts are all under 2700 there.
If this is the case, then Shredder is probably the strongest chess program
right now, but if in chess.net, Shredder performs much better than Fritz6 or
Junior6? shouldn't we consider some factors too that maybe those using
Fritz6 and Junior6 are using a much much slower computer than the one using
the Shredder account?
xxx
242 <Iam...@chess.net> wrote in message
news:7nHI4.59602$AN.7...@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com...
> Someone runs shredder 3 at chess.net under the account "shredder3.0"
> it's not the stronger version 4, but it certainly shows it's strength
there,
> with a rating of 2821, where the average high performing computers are
under
> 2700 there. The frequently used accounts running Fritz 6, Junior 6 &
> Chesstiger accounts are all under 2700 there.
Rating at chess.net is not so reliable due to so many factors. Some of them
are number of games played, strength of the opponent, speed of the computer
being used..If you want a more reliable rating list, go to
http://www.chessbase.com in the News section, you'll find the Swedish
Rating list (for computers) and results are based on games that are played
on the tournament level - 40/2hrs.
Top 5 on the list as of April 7,2000 are:
1. Fritz 6 (2721)
2. Junior 6 (2689)
3.Chesstiger (2671)
4. Fritz 5.32 (2654)
5. Nimzo 7.32 (2653)
Robert Hyatt
> It is established, though only 50 blitz games played. if you type
> "cbest" you will see it at the top of the computer best list, followed by
> fritz 6 account & then four crafty accounts, one being yours. I do not
> think it is *that* much stronger then other commercial programs, but it can
> easily compete with them. It is also interfaced through winboard, so there
> are no mouse slips that may somtimes happens when running it manualy with
> non-winboard programs like fritz & junior.
It isn't established _now_. Which means it was created who knows how
long back. If you type "rank <handle>" and the handle doesn't show up with
a number, then it isn't a 'current' rating. This usually means that the
program had a high rating, and the operator stopped playing to protect it.
It happens all the time...
> "Robert Hyatt" <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in message
> news:8d02fu$r9d$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu...
>> 242 <Iam...@chess.net> wrote:
>> > Someone runs shredder 3 at chess.net under the account "shredder3.0"
>> > it's not the stronger version 4, but it certainly shows it's strength
> there,
>> > with a rating of 2821, where the average high performing computers are
> under
>> > 2700 there. The frequently used accounts running Fritz 6, Junior 6 &
>> > Chesstiger accounts are all under 2700 there.
>>
>> that rating is not established. after it plays enough games to show up
>> in "rank" then it will be more meaningful. You can beat one 2421 program
>> and get a rating of 2821...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "xxx" <mlat...@ctimail3.com> wrote in message
>> > news:8ctj03$4vd$1...@news.ctimail.com...
>> >>
>> >> 242 <Iam...@chess.net> wrote in message
Eric Hallsworth
writes
>Rating at chess.net is not so reliable due to so many factors. Some of them
>are number of games played, strength of the opponent, speed of the computer
>being used..If you want a more reliable rating list, go to
>http://www.chessbase.com in the News section, you'll find the Swedish
>Rating list (for computers) and results are based on games that are played
>on the tournament level - 40/2hrs.
>Top 5 on the list as of April 7,2000 are:
>1. Fritz 6 (2721)
>2. Junior 6 (2689)
>3.Chesstiger (2671)
>4. Fritz 5.32 (2654)
>5. Nimzo 7.32 (2653)
>
programs on the Selective Search rating list are:
1 Junior6a
2 Fritz6a
3 Chess (Rebel) Tiger
4 Hiarcs732
5 Hiarcs7.1
6 Nimzo732
7 Fritz532
8 Shredder4
On my list the gap from 1st to 8th is only 43 Elo points, less than the
gap in Sweden. To get the full figures and ratings for other leading
programs, visit my site and follow the [RATINGS] link
--
With best wishes from Eric Hallsworth
The Red House, 46 High Street, Wilburton, Cambs CB6 3RA, England
Editor of 'Selective Search', Britain's only Computer Chess Magazine, est.1985
Visit: http://www.elhchess.demon.co.uk/
242
shredder3.0 it shows itself between other humans, which is why it appears to
not be established. If you type /crank shredder3.0 you will get it's
ranking against other computers. At chess.net your rating will stay
established once established, though this will change in the following
months.