Going commercial, maybe
Tom C. Kerrigan
I need money, and because I have no useful skills, I'm thinking of selling
my chess program. I've been told by any number of people that I should go
with a German company named Gambitsoft. Evidently I just send them the
program and they send me cheques. This sounds pretty good to me. Before I
do this, though, I have two questions.
First, as soon as I do this, will I still technically be an amateur? I
think the answer to this is probably "yes" because a) I'm a student, and
b) some other programmers are doing this and they are still "amateurs."
Still, I figured it would be good to ask first.
Second, what sort of law is involved here? I'm no lawyer, but I suspect
the entire issue might get very very tricky. I'm an American "earning"
money in Germany but it's actually more of a royalty collection thing, so
do I pay some country's income tax somewhere, or do I have to sign
something somewhere else, or what? My instinct is to ignore the whole
bloody mess, but this might not be such a hot idea... :(
Thanks for any input...
BTW, the program I want to give Gambitsoft is what I took to Paderborn.
I'm currently working on a total rewrite, because I realized that a 64
square chess board works much better than a 128 square board. :) With the
tricks I've learned over the past two years, I'm hoping that it will be
faster and smarter than my current pride and joy, although it will share
the same basic structure...
Cheers,
Tom
brucemo
Tom C. Kerrigan wrote:
> First, as soon as I do this, will I still technically be an amateur? I
> think the answer to this is probably "yes" because a) I'm a student, and
> b) some other programmers are doing this and they are still "amateurs."
> Still, I figured it would be good to ask first.
Fascinating question. If you really want to know the answer, perhaps you
should send email to Marland and/or Levy, with some of the particulars of
this situation.
Please feel free to report back here if you do this, I'd be interested in
discussing their response.
You might run afoul of this 15% or 25% or whatever rule, since you probably
don't make very much outside of this venture.
If they say you would be professional, and it is impossible to get
them to change their minds, obviously you will need to weigh the income you
would get against the prospect of the occasional free trip (and no entry
fees) if you stay amateur. The WMCCC's aren't usually a free trip, this
year was an exception because of the distance involved, but maybe the WCCC
next year will be a freebie. Probably be somewhere in Ohio or Kansas or
something, though, so big deal, they pay for your gasoline and some
depreciation on your dad's car :-) So perhaps you will be old enough to
buy beer here as well as in Germany before you save any real money by
staying amateur, unless you plan to win an amateur title and cash in then
:-)
I don't think your status as a student should have anything to do with it,
but that's just my opinion. This is not to say that I think the income
percentage rule is great, either.
The amateur/professional distinction is all screwed up, obviously. You
might want to consider this as well. This area is overdue for some reform,
and who knows if the reform will make you amateur, professional, or
entirely remove the distinction? So there might be a question for Tony and
David as well.
There are quite a few people who sell their programs professionally,
possibly for a long time, who are still amateurs, sort of. You can or
could buy Kallisto, right? Does that sell a lot of copies? And what about
your buddy Diep? And Mark Lefler? Etc.
It'd be a shame to charge someone a thousand dollar entry fee, and make
them pay for their trip, even if they've only made a couple thousand bucks
from the program, especially if in the mean time you've got people going
for free who have major visions of palettes full of shrink-wrapped boxes.
They've got big financial plans, but they've managed to plead poverty
better than you have.
The whole idea was to avoid giving sponsor money and subscription money to
Saitek, Fidelity, and Mephisto, that would make completely no sense. But
you ain't no Saitek, you're just some guy who wants to be able to afford a
P6.
But it may also not make a lot of sense for the ICCA to subsidize R&D on an
entry that will eventually be more successful, either, for instance Nimzo
now or Hiarcs a year ago. And not to compare mine with these two, but
probably me, too, since I plan to sell mine, but haven't yet, and meanwhile
I have a computer here that I fully intend to deduct as a business expense.
I'm interested in knowing what you hear and what you decide.
bruce
Komputer Korner
brucemo wrote:
>
snipped
>
> There are quite a few people who sell their programs professionally,
> possibly for a long time, who are still amateurs, sort of. You can or
> could buy Kallisto, right? Does that sell a lot of copies? And what about
> your buddy Diep? And Mark Lefler? Etc.
>
> It'd be a shame to charge someone a thousand dollar entry fee, and make
> them pay for their trip, even if they've only made a couple thousand bucks
> from the program, especially if in the mean time you've got people going
> for free who have major visions of palettes full of shrink-wrapped boxes.
> They've got big financial plans, but they've managed to plead poverty
> better than you have.
>
> The whole idea was to avoid giving sponsor money and subscription money to
> Saitek, Fidelity, and Mephisto, that would make completely no sense. But
> you ain't no Saitek, you're just some guy who wants to be able to afford a
> P6.
>
> But it may also not make a lot of sense for the ICCA to subsidize R&D on an
> entry that will eventually be more successful, either, for instance Nimzo
> now or Hiarcs a year ago. And not to compare mine with these two, but
> probably me, too, since I plan to sell mine, but haven't yet, and meanwhile
> I have a computer here that I fully intend to deduct as a business expense.
>
> I'm interested in knowing what you hear and what you decide.
>
> bruce
When will the ferret finally see the light of day? Is it like
groundhog day where if he sees his shadow it will retreat back
to his lair?:) Us ferret hunters are waiting:)
--
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer.
Robert Hyatt
Komputer Korner (kor...@netcom.ca) wrote:
: When will the ferret finally see the light of day? Is it like
: groundhog day where if he sees his shadow it will retreat back
: to his lair?:) Us ferret hunters are waiting:)
: --
: Komputer Korner
: The inkompetent komputer.
GIVE ME A BREAK!!! *one* Ferret is *more* than enough on the servers
right now. :)
mclane
kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
>I need money, and because I have no useful skills, I'm thinking of selling
>my chess program. I've been told by any number of people that I should go
>with a German company named Gambitsoft. Evidently I just send them the
>program and they send me cheques. This sounds pretty good to me. Before I
>do this, though, I have two questions.
>First, as soon as I do this, will I still technically be an amateur? I
>think the answer to this is probably "yes" because a) I'm a student, and
>b) some other programmers are doing this and they are still "amateurs."
>Still, I figured it would be good to ask first.
>Second, what sort of law is involved here? I'm no lawyer, but I suspect
>the entire issue might get very very tricky. I'm an American "earning"
>money in Germany but it's actually more of a royalty collection thing, so
>do I pay some country's income tax somewhere, or do I have to sign
>something somewhere else, or what? My instinct is to ignore the whole
>bloody mess, but this might not be such a hot idea... :(
>Thanks for any input...
>BTW, the program I want to give Gambitsoft is what I took to Paderborn.
>I'm currently working on a total rewrite, because I realized that a 64
>square chess board works much better than a 128 square board. :) With the
>tricks I've learned over the past two years, I'm hoping that it will be
>faster and smarter than my current pride and joy, although it will share
>the same basic structure...
>Cheers,
>Tom
Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
program ?? Reason ?
brucemo
I wouldn't want there to be many more Ferret's on the servers, since I
wouldn't want to over-graze (over-fish?) the Crafty's.
:-)
I'll make Ferret more available eventually. The chess engine is strong
enough to sell, but I need to hold my nose and write a nicer UI. This
will take a while, since you bozos seems to want every feature on the
planet. Also, I may end up giving out my home phone number as the tech
support line, so unless I make absolutely sure it has no bugs, my wife
will kill me.
Do I really need a 3d board? Not if I can help it. Those things make
my eyes drip out of my head.
bruce
Ingo Althoefer
brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>I'll make Ferret more available eventually. The chess engine is strong
>enough to sell, but I need to hold my nose and write a nicer UI. This
>will take a while, since you bozos seems to want every feature on the
>planet.
Please, do not forget a k-best mode in commercial Ferret.
>Also, I may end up giving out my home phone number as the tech
>support line, so unless I make absolutely sure it has no bugs, my wife
>will *ill me.
Ingo Althoefer.
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
<E6nA8...@news.prima.ruhr.de>...
Cue Hyatt.
Enters stage left with large prop entitled 0x88
Meaningless techno-thread ensues,as each programmer gets the name of his
program in lights with, "well with CrayStobCrafFerCSTZarkXXXXShred version
5.1857 I do it with .........."
Meanwhile politicos wait in wings, desperately looking for their chance to
jump in and savage the target of their particular fantasy.
Fun this rgcc :)
Chris Whittington
>
Robert Hyatt
Chris Whittington (chr...@demon.co.uk) wrote:
: --
: http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
: mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
: <E6nA8...@news.prima.ruhr.de>...
: > kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
: >
: > >BTW, the program I want to give Gambitsoft is what I took to Paderborn.
: > >I'm currently working on a total rewrite, because I realized that a 64
: > >square chess board works much better than a 128 square board. :) With
: the
: > >tricks I've learned over the past two years, I'm hoping that it will be
: > >faster and smarter than my current pride and joy, although it will share
: > >the same basic structure...
: >
: > >Cheers,
: > >Tom
: >
: >
: > Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
: > easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
: >
: > Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
: > program ?? Reason ?
: >
: Cue Hyatt.
: Enters stage left with large prop entitled 0x88
: Meaningless techno-thread ensues,as each programmer gets the name of his
: program in lights with, "well with CrayStobCrafFerCSTZarkXXXXShred version
: 5.1857 I do it with .........."
No 0x88 in mine... so I chose to not respond. 0x88 is, in and of itself, no
faster or slower just because it has 128 words rather than 64 words. Minor
drawback is that it is 2x bigger, but it gets sucked into cache and will likely
stay there forever since it's hit on so many times. It does help in some places
if you want to know if two squares (say) are on the same diagonal, for sure.
The format I use (64 words) doesn't provide this because of wraparound, but since
I use bitmaps I don't need to know this anyway... I don't know of any 64-word
boards running around, because of the edge-detection problem and attack
generation since it's hard to ask "is the king and bishop on the same diagonal?"
: Meanwhile politicos wait in wings, desperately looking for their chance to
: jump in and savage the target of their particular fantasy.
: Fun this rgcc :)
: Chris Whittington
: >
Tim Foden
Robert Hyatt <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in article <5fp3j9$e...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>...
| Chris Whittington (chr...@demon.co.uk) wrote:
|
| : --
| : http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
|
| : mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
| : <E6nA8...@news.prima.ruhr.de>...
| : > kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
| : >
| : > >BTW, the program I want to give Gambitsoft is what I took to Paderborn.
| : > >I'm currently working on a total rewrite, because I realized that a 64
| : > >square chess board works much better than a 128 square board. :) With
| : the
| : > >tricks I've learned over the past two years, I'm hoping that it will be
| : > >faster and smarter than my current pride and joy, although it will share
| : > >the same basic structure...
| : >
| : > >Cheers,
| : > >Tom
| : >
| : >
| : > Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
| : > easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
| : >
| : > Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
| : > program ?? Reason ?
| : >
It's simply because the format in which the board is stored has implications
on the speed and ease at which the program can generate moves, perform check
tests, perform pinned piece tests, generate valid moves in check, etc. I
have also changed from a 128 (16x8) to 64 (8x8) board recently.
This has allowed much more use of bitboards and lookup tables, and has
subsequently speeded up my nps from ~11K to ~23K.
...SNIP...
brucemo
Chris Whittington wrote:
> Cue Hyatt.
>
> Enters stage left with large prop entitled 0x88
>
> Meaningless techno-thread ensues,as each programmer gets the name of his
> program in lights with, "well with CrayStobCrafFerCSTZarkXXXXShred version
> 5.1857 I do it with .........."
Yeah, but the reason it's done is not as you state. The reason someone would
say how they do it, is that they want to hear comments/criticisms, and that
they hope to get ideas from what other people say.
How do you do it, by the way?
I use a move table, because I can pre-compute a lot of stuff. The down side
is that it's memory intensive on a machine that can't handle memory intensive
stuff.
> Meanwhile politicos wait in wings, desperately looking for their chance to
> jump in and savage the target of their particular fantasy.
Oh well.
bruce
Komputer Korner
brucemo wrote:
>
snipped
> I'll make Ferret more available eventually. The chess engine is strong
> enough to sell, but I need to hold my nose and write a nicer UI. This
> will take a while, since you bozos seems to want every feature on the
> support line, so unless I make absolutely sure it has no bugs, my wife
>
> Do I really need a 3d board? Not if I can help it. Those things make
> my eyes drip out of my head.
>
> bruce
Trust me: You don't need 3D unless you can do it as well as CSTAL. And
even then I never use it. It is just not the same as looking at 2D or
real life.
Komputer Korner
Ingo Althoefer wrote:
>
> brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> >I'll make Ferret more available eventually. The chess engine is strong
> >enough to sell, but I need to hold my nose and write a nicer UI. This
> >will take a while, since you bozos seems to want every feature on the
> >planet.
>
>
> >support line, so unless I make absolutely sure it has no bugs, my wife
>
> Ingo Althoefer.
I knew that the letter "k" was the best letter in the language:)
Peter W. Gillgasch
mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote:
> kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
>
> >I need money,
Me too :) Put me on the list !!!
> >and because I have no useful skills,
You go on record for saying that... Hint: FAQ 8^)
> I'm thinking of selling
> >my chess program. I've been told by any number of people that I should go
> >with a German company named Gambitsoft. Evidently I just send them the
> >program and they send me cheques. This sounds pretty good to me.
This sounds pretty bad to me. You have absolutely no control over the
thing (copies sold etc.) I think Marty can sing a song or two about
things like that...
> >Before I do this, though, I have two questions.
>
> >First, as soon as I do this, will I still technically be an amateur? I
Nobody can tell.
> >think the answer to this is probably "yes" because a) I'm a student, and
Doesn't matter I think.
> >b) some other programmers are doing this and they are still "amateurs."
But some are not.
I never understood this xx % income rule. I mean, hey, Bob (to name just
a prominent example) is doing how much percent of his income with
academic chess work ?
This rule is silly. It needs to be either totally abolished or refined.
If I would earn (say) 540,- DM per month by doing chess programming for
(say) an university and I am too (say) stupid to do something else like
being a (say) late night Java prostitute programmer (did I say that ?
Yes !) then, well... I don't eat too much, I don't travel to the
Bahamas... Yet: 100% income by chess programming. Strictly speaking by
the official rules I am a professional then. In probably most cases this
rule is then not used against the programmer, but if you don't enforce
the rules and laws, why have them in the first place ?
> >Still, I figured it would be good to ask first.
>
> >Second, what sort of law is involved here? I'm no lawyer, but I suspect
> >the entire issue might get very very tricky. I'm an American "earning"
> >money in Germany but it's actually more of a royalty collection thing, so
> >do I pay some country's income tax somewhere, or do I have to sign
> >something somewhere else, or what? My instinct is to ignore the whole
> >bloody mess, but this might not be such a hot idea... :(
If you sell to Gambitsoft you are making your deal in Baden -
Wuerthenberg (filthy place, stay away from it)... But you live somewhere
in the North. And you are an Amercian citizien... Uh... The lawyers will
have a great day and with some luck you'll share a room with Steffi
Graf's daddy. In the end he will like you and you'll marry his
daughter... Net result: $$$$$ !!!. And some more big noses 8^)
So basically it is an excellent idea. Nice plan. Go ahead. I'll write
you a post card. I __promise__.
> >Thanks for any input...
>
> >BTW, the program I want to give Gambitsoft is what I took to Paderborn.
> >I'm currently working on a total rewrite, because I realized that a 64
> >square chess board works much better than a 128 square board. :) With the
> >tricks I've learned over the past two years, I'm hoping that it will be
> >faster and smarter than my current pride and joy, although it will share
> >the same basic structure...
>
> >Cheers,
> >Tom
>
>
> Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
> easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
>
> Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
> program ?? Reason ?
Edge detection etc. Carry overflow into bit 3 and/or 7. Hope this helps.
LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom TUEV
empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
-- Peter [Gummibaerchen-Ueberdosis, Zurechnungsfaehigkeit == 0]
May God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to choke the living shit out of those who piss me off,
and wisdom to know where I should hide the bodies...
mclane
gil...@ilk.de (Peter W. Gillgasch) wrote:
>mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote:
>> kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
>>
>> >I need money,
>Me too :) Put me on the list !!!
>> >and because I have no useful skills,
>You go on record for saying that... Hint: FAQ 8^)
>> I'm thinking of selling
>> >my chess program. I've been told by any number of people that I should go
>> >with a German company named Gambitsoft. Evidently I just send them the
>> >program and they send me cheques. This sounds pretty good to me.
>This sounds pretty bad to me. You have absolutely no control over the
>thing (copies sold etc.) I think Marty can sing a song or two about
>things like that...
I think he could trust Gambit Soft.
>> >Before I do this, though, I have two questions.
>>
>> >First, as soon as I do this, will I still technically be an amateur? I
>Nobody can tell.
I told you before that it can be YOU the next victim of the ICCA !!!
I think you will have to pay 1000 $ next event ! :-)
>> >think the answer to this is probably "yes" because a) I'm a student, and
>Doesn't matter I think.
If this helps, chris should be study religion.
>> >b) some other programmers are doing this and they are still "amateurs."
>But some are not.
ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL !! SOME ARE ....
Will you invite me to the party then, Tom ?
>So basically it is an excellent idea. Nice plan. Go ahead. I'll write
>you a post card. I __promise__.
>> >Thanks for any input...
We have ANY, but not much at all.
>>
>> >BTW, the program I want to give Gambitsoft is what I took to Paderborn.
>> >I'm currently working on a total rewrite, because I realized that a 64
>> >square chess board works much better than a 128 square board. :) With the
>> >tricks I've learned over the past two years, I'm hoping that it will be
>> >faster and smarter than my current pride and joy, although it will share
>> >the same basic structure...
>>
>> >Cheers,
>> >Tom
>>
>>
>> Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
>> easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
>>
>> Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
>> program ?? Reason ?
>Edge detection etc. Carry overflow into bit 3 and/or 7. Hope this helps.
>LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
>Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom TUEV
>empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
Aha !! Now I understand !
Tom C. Kerrigan
Chris Whittington (chr...@demon.co.uk) wrote:
> > Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
> > easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
> >
> > Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
> > program ?? Reason ?
Actually Thorsten said the above, I think.
With a 128 square board certain tests necessary to generate moves can be
reduced to a single logical operation.
Well, that makes move generation just nifty, but if you consider that a
128 square board makes everything bigger, all but prevents bitboard stuff,
etc., then a 128 square board doesn't look so hot.
Cheers,
Tom
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca> wrote in article
<332053...@netcom.ca>...
> brucemo wrote:
> >
> snipped
> > I'll make Ferret more available eventually. The chess engine is strong
> > enough to sell, but I need to hold my nose and write a nicer UI. This
> > will take a while, since you bozos seems to want every feature on the
> > planet. Also, I may end up giving out my home phone number as the tech
> > support line, so unless I make absolutely sure it has no bugs, my wife
> > will kill me.
> >
> > Do I really need a 3d board? Not if I can help it. Those things make
> > my eyes drip out of my head.
> >
> > bruce
>
> Trust me: You don't need 3D unless you can do it as well as CSTAL. And
> even then I never use it. It is just not the same as looking at 2D or
> real life.
Thank you Komputer :)
We just used a good artist, 3D Studio, and a scaling algorithm to adjust
the size of the pieces (perspective) in real time.
I insisted on using the Staunton design (artists like doing insects and
spaceships and stuff as in CM5000), and each piece was copied from a nice
wooden staunton set we got.
I think there's something special done to adjust the direction of light
falling on the board and pieces, so it remains consistent; but all that got
too complicated for me.
Chris Whittington
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote in article <332052...@nwlink.com>...
> Chris Whittington wrote:
>
> > Cue Hyatt.
> >
> > Enters stage left with large prop entitled 0x88
> >
> > Meaningless techno-thread ensues,as each programmer gets the name of
his
> > program in lights with, "well with CrayStobCrafFerCSTZarkXXXXShred
version
> > 5.1857 I do it with .........."
>
> Yeah, but the reason it's done is not as you state. The reason someone
would
> say how they do it, is that they want to hear comments/criticisms, and
that
> they hope to get ideas from what other people say.
I know, I was (am) in a flippant mood at the moment. Its all that rat-wurst
:)
>
> How do you do it, by the way?
0x88 for edge detection. I suppose that means I use 256 squares. 64 real
ones, 2x64 edge ones for overflow and underflow, and another 64 'in the
middle' for file overflow.
But what is a square ?
32 bits piece type flags and stuff
32 bits attacks on square
32 bits x-ray attacks
32 bits pin-ray attacks
12 indexed offsets to the hash values
12 indexed offsets to the piece square tables
and some other stuff.
CSTal needs to know 'everything' happening on each square.
I hope that makes it clear :)
Chris Whittington
Andrew Tridgell
brucemo wrote:
> Do I really need a 3d board? Not if I can help it. Those things make
> my eyes drip out of my head.
I did a 3D board for KnightCap, and was quite pleased with
the result. I used OpenGL which allows the board to be
arbitrarily rotated using a mouse-controlled virtual
trackball. The pieces are described geometrically.
The pieces are very simple, but are quite clear (at least
IMHO!).
The source code is available from
ftp://samba.anu.edu.au/pub/KnightCap
Improvements to the pieces, or to KnightCap in general
are welcome.
Cheers, Andrew
PS: I released version 1.1 of KnightCap this afternoon.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Andrew Tridgell Dept. of Computer Science
email: Andrew....@anu.edu.au Australian National
University
Phone: +61 6 254 8209 Fax: +61 6 249 0010
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
mclane
kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
>Chris Whittington (chr...@demon.co.uk) wrote:
>Cheers,
>Tom
Right. 128 board is a job done for the CPU.
64 board is done for us players and chess.
I hope your ideas of transforming it will bring significant advantage.
vince
Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote in article
<5fi48l$9...@merlin.pn.org>...
> Second, what sort of law is involved here? I'm no lawyer, but I suspect
> the entire issue might get very very tricky. I'm an American "earning"
> money in Germany but it's actually more of a royalty collection thing, so
> do I pay some country's income tax somewhere, or do I have to sign
> something somewhere else, or what?
As a US citizen you must file a US tax return that includes all of your
income. If you are also a resident of Germany, you may exclude 70000 of
income from your US taxable income. Certainly Germany is interested in
taxing your income. Importantly, your tax liability will not exceed the
rate of the higher rate country. You have the 70000 exclusion from the US,
or you may choose to have a tax credit against US tax for taxes paid to
Germany. Please dont let this discourage you from going commercial.
vince
Tom C. Kerrigan
Peter W. Gillgasch (gil...@ilk.de) wrote:
> LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
> Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom TUEV
> empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
ROTFL...
Now Peter, it's not nice to make fun of non-programmers... :)
Cheers,
Tom
Peter W. Gillgasch
Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote:
> ROTFL...
Glad you liked it !
> Now Peter, it's not nice to make fun of non-programmers... :)
Alte Petze ! ;)
-- Peter
mclane
kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
>Peter W. Gillgasch (gil...@ilk.de) wrote:
>> LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
>> Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom TUEV
>> empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
>ROTFL...
>Now Peter, it's not nice to make fun of non-programmers... :)
>Cheers,
>Tom
But he made me laughing !! Maybe it needs a german to make a german
laugh !
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
<E6uBM...@news.prima.ruhr.de>...
Ho ho ho, ferry vunny german yoke, ho ho ho :)
Chris Whittington
BTW Tom, I think you'll sell approx 5 units. Its the average sale for this
sort of case.
>
>
Tom C. Kerrigan
mclane (mcl...@prima.ruhr.de) wrote:
> kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
> >Peter W. Gillgasch (gil...@ilk.de) wrote:
> >> LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
> >> Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom TUEV
> >> empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
> >ROTFL...
> >Now Peter, it's not nice to make fun of non-programmers... :)
> >Cheers,
> >Tom
> But he made me laughing !! Maybe it needs a german to make a german
> laugh !
Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to laugh at
my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when that
happens.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom C. Kerrigan
Chris Whittington (chr...@demon.co.uk) wrote:
> > >Peter W. Gillgasch (gil...@ilk.de) wrote:
> > >> LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
> > >> Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom
> TUEV
> > >> empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
> Ho ho ho, ferry vunny german yoke, ho ho ho :)
Peter, if I may?
"LOL ;-) Because, on a larger board, the pieces could be allowed longer
braking distance, to not drag on the board's edge. Reccomended by TUEV.
(no idea) Saves an unbelievable amount of lacquer on the wood."
Chris, that's the best German accent I've ever read... :)
> BTW Tom, I think you'll sell approx 5 units. Its the average sale for this
> sort of case.
That's sort of a bummer. Would it make any difference if the average case
involves a suckier program?
Cheers,
Tom
brucemo
Peter W. Gillgasch wrote:
> TUEV (in real German letters TÜV) is an agency that you need to allow to
> inspect your car. If they say that you need to fix this or that then you
> better fix it, otherwise you are no longer allowed to drive it. Don't
> know if the British have something like that... I think the U.S. doesn't
> have such an agency, right ?
I have no idea how this pertains to anything, but I will answer because I
have some experience with it.
Here in Washington State you have to take your car in for emissions
inspection every two years. You gotta pay them a few bucks, in cash, and
they stick your car on a treadmill, and stick a probe up the exhaust pipe,
and you sit there and wait for a few minutes. Oh, I forgot to mention that
because this is all a government job you have the obligatory half-hour wait
first, unless you come during a peak time, like after it gets light out, in
which case the wait is longer.
If everything goes well, you can drive your car for two more years. If
they decide that your car is a polluter, you have to take it to a shop and
let them poke at it, until it either isn't a polluter anymore, or you've
paid them enough money that the state will admit that nothing can be done
for your car.
The same sort of thing is done in Oregon. It's probably even more strict
in California, since they have more cars. I don't know about the rest of
the country, but that's the left-hand edge taken care of.
I have owned some interesting cars. One of them had some apparent flaws,
and I was pulled over by a cop because of this. I was told to fix my car,
then take it to the local cop station and let them verify that I fixed it.
I'm not sure what kind of a deal you are talking about, Peter.
bruce
Peter W. Gillgasch
Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote:
> Peter, if I may?
Sure. I am glad you did !
> "LOL ;-) Because, on a larger board, the pieces could be allowed longer
> braking distance, to not drag on the board's edge. Reccomended by TUEV.
> (no idea) Saves an unbelievable amount of lacquer on the wood."
TUEV (in real German letters TÜV) is an agency that you need to allow to
inspect your car. If they say that you need to fix this or that then you
better fix it, otherwise you are no longer allowed to drive it. Don't
know if the British have something like that... I think the U.S. doesn't
have such an agency, right ?
-- Peter
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
Peter W. Gillgasch <gil...@ilk.de> wrote in article
<1997031201143420436@[194.121.104.136]>...
> Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote:
>
> > Peter, if I may?
>
> Sure. I am glad you did !
>
> > "LOL ;-) Because, on a larger board, the pieces could be allowed longer
> > braking distance, to not drag on the board's edge. Reccomended by TUEV.
> > (no idea) Saves an unbelievable amount of lacquer on the wood."
>
> TUEV (in real German letters TÜV) is an agency that you need to allow to
> inspect your car. If they say that you need to fix this or that then you
> better fix it, otherwise you are no longer allowed to drive it. Don't
> know if the British have something like that...
Yes, we have an MOT test.
MOT = Ministry of Transport
Now, because of the EU, we have more tests. They just banned my car (well,
not my car, but all future versions of it) on exhaust emision control
criteria.
I think there's a control commission made up of eco-feminists in the EU
that works on ways to ban all cars racier than Renault Clios.
Feery vunny yoke of ze peezes und bord, Peter :)
Ho ho ho :)
Chris Whittington
> I think the U.S. doesn't
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote in article
<5g3sv1$7...@merlin.pn.org>...
> mclane (mcl...@prima.ruhr.de) wrote:
> > kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan) wrote:
> > >Peter W. Gillgasch (gil...@ilk.de) wrote:
> > >> LOL ;-) Weil auf einem groesseren Brett die Figuren sich laengere
> > >> Bremswege erlauben koennen, ohne an den Brettrand zu scheppern. Vom
TUEV
> > >> empfohlen. Spart unglaublich viel Lack am Holz.
> > >ROTFL...
> > >Now Peter, it's not nice to make fun of non-programmers... :)
> > >Cheers,
> > >Tom
> > But he made me laughing !! Maybe it needs a german to make a german
> > laugh !
>
> Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to laugh
at
> my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when that
> happens.
Say something like 'same procedure as last year, your ladyship'; that
should have them rolling on the floor :)
Chris Whittington
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
Rolf Czedzak
mclane wrote: <E6nA8...@news.prima.ruhr.de>
m> Good idea Tom. BTW: I have always played with 64 squares. It is much
m> easier, of course. I could not play with 128. :-)
m>
m> Can you tell me, as I am not a programmer, WHY it is faster for a
m> program ?? Reason ?
With 128 squares two players can play independently. No one is getting
'disturbed' by his opponents ideas. Now tell me, that this isn't a
real quantum leap in chess.
Rolf C
Peter Fendrich
brucemo wrote:
>
> Peter W. Gillgasch wrote:
>
> > TUEV (in real German letters TÜV) is an agency that you need to allow to
> > inspect your car. If they say that you need to fix this or that then you
> > better fix it, otherwise you are no longer allowed to drive it. Don't
> > have such an agency, right ?
>
> have some experience with it.
>
> Here in Washington State you have to take your car in for emissions
> inspection every two years. You gotta pay them a few bucks, in cash, and
> they stick your car on a treadmill, and stick a probe up the exhaust pipe,
> and you sit there and wait for a few minutes. Oh, I forgot to mention that
> because this is all a government job you have the obligatory half-hour wait
> first, unless you come during a peak time, like after it gets light out, in
> which case the wait is longer.
>
> If everything goes well, you can drive your car for two more years. If
> let them poke at it, until it either isn't a polluter anymore, or you've
> paid them enough money that the state will admit that nothing can be done
> for your car.
>
> The same sort of thing is done in Oregon. It's probably even more strict
> in California, since they have more cars. I don't know about the rest of
> the country, but that's the left-hand edge taken care of.
>
> I have owned some interesting cars. One of them had some apparent flaws,
> and I was pulled over by a cop because of this. I was told to fix my car,
> then take it to the local cop station and let them verify that I fixed it.
>
> I'm not sure what kind of a deal you are talking about, Peter.
>
> bruce
Oh my God...
We do exactly the same thing in Sweden with one difference:
It's every year :-((
--
J-P Fendrich
Rolf Czedzak
Chris Whittington wrote: <01bc2d8a$29a139e0$c308...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>
CW> Ho ho ho, ferry vunny german yoke, ho ho ho :)
Santa Chris??
CW> Chris Whittington
Rolf C
Rolf Czedzak
Chris Whittington wrote: <01bc2ecb$4a4b0300$c308...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>
CW> Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote in article
CW> > Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to
CW> > laugh
CW> at
CW> > my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when
CW> > that happens.
CW>
CW> Say something like 'same procedure as last year, your ladyship'; that
CW> should have them rolling on the floor :)
Or start with 'As Chris Whittington, a really nice guy from Britain, told
me ...'. _That_ should really kill them.
CW> Chris Whittington
CW>
CW> >
CW> > Cheers,
CW> > Tom
CW> >
Rolf C
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
Rolf Czedzak <r...@viking.ruhr.com> wrote in article
<6Smh1...@09.viking.ruhr.com>...
> Chris Whittington wrote:
<01bc2ecb$4a4b0300$c308...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>
>
> CW> Tom C. Kerrigan <kerr...@merlin.pn.org> wrote in article
>
> CW> > Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to
> CW> > laugh
> CW> at
> CW> > my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when
> CW> > that happens.
> CW>
> CW> Say something like 'same procedure as last year, your ladyship'; that
> CW> should have them rolling on the floor :)
>
> Or start with 'As Chris Whittington, a really nice guy from Britain, told
> me ...'. _That_ should really kill them.
Come on, we English are your friends, we get you out of all of all kinds of
trouble :)
Chris Whittington
mclane
>> Or start with 'As Chris Whittington, a really nice guy from Britain, told
>> me ...'. _That_ should really kill them.
>Come on, we English are your friends, we get you out of all of all kinds of
>trouble :)
Yes - england is brilliant. Britains like you are brilliant and we
need you to help us. Also we need the american help. I will never
forget the marshall plan.
But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution or
whatever that will change the government in germany.
Harald Faber
quoting a mail from kerrigan # merlin.pn.org
Hello Tom,
TCK> From: kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan)
TCK> Subject: Re: Going commercial, maybe
TCK> Organization: Pendragon Network, Germany
TCK> > But he made me laughing !! Maybe it needs a german to make a german
TCK> > laugh !
TCK> Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to laugh
TCK> at my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when that
TCK> happens.
TCK> Tom
It is always "own jokes are always the best jokes", right? :-)
Harald
--
brucemo
mclane wrote:
> But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
> it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution or
> whatever that will change the government in germany.
Wow. If someone here said something like that about Clinton, they'd
probably get a visit from the Secret Service.
bruce
Chris Whittington
--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote in article <332AE0...@nwlink.com>...
He does, regularly.
Geheimatpolitzei.
Chris Whittington
> bruce
>
mclane
Harald...@p21.f2.n1.z1001.fidonet.org (Harald Faber) wrote:
>TCK> Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to laugh
>TCK> at my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when that
>TCK> happens.
>TCK> Tom
>It is always "own jokes are always the best jokes", right? :-)
Germans are vulcans ! Aren't they ?!
>Harald
>--
mclane
brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>mclane wrote:
>> But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
>> it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution or
>> whatever that will change the government in germany.
>Wow. If someone here said something like that about Clinton, they'd
>probably get a visit from the Secret Service.
>bruce
Bruce . members of the left-wing-parties in germany WERE controlled by
the BND, that IS the german-version of the Secret-Service.
But in the moment SO MANY PEOPLE IN GERMANY THINK THE SAME, they can't
control them all.
It is the best thing for the government to retire, because they have
ruined germany. It will need some more days, but IMO before this year
is over, they will have found out themselves.
brucemo
Tom C. Kerrigan wrote:
> Can't always be this way. I tell jokes that get Americans rolling on the
> floor (and not because they're so bad) but everybody here just sort of
> nods.
I think perhaps you are exposing flaws in the American national character.
bruce
Tom C. Kerrigan
Harald Faber (Harald...@p21.f2.n1.z1001.fidonet.org) wrote:
> TCK> > But he made me laughing !! Maybe it needs a german to make a german
> TCK> > laugh !
> TCK> Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to laugh
> TCK> at my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it when that
> TCK> happens.
> TCK> Tom
> It is always "own jokes are always the best jokes", right? :-)
Can't always be this way. I tell jokes that get Americans rolling on the
floor (and not because they're so bad) but everybody here just sort of
nods.
Cheers,
Tom
Rolf Czedzak
Chris Whittington wrote: <01bc3254$437c6a00$c308...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>
CW>
CW> --
CW> http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft
CW>
CW> brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote in article
CW> > <332AE0...@nwlink.com>... mclane wrote:
CW> >
CW> >
CW> > > But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
CW> > > it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution
CW> > > or whatever that will change the government in germany.
CW> >
CW> > Wow. If someone here said something like that about Clinton,
CW> > they'd probably get a visit from the Secret Service.
CW> >
CW>
CW> He does, regularly.
CW>
CW> Geheimatpolitzei.
Don't try to play upon words in non native language(s). It's hard enough
for native speakers to succeed in it over the net (and anywhere else).
Leave it! ;-)
CW> Chris Whittington
Rolf
Rolf Czedzak
mclane wrote: <E75D1...@news.prima.ruhr.de>
m> brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote:
m>
m> >mclane wrote:
m>
m>
m> >> But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
m> >> it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution
m> >> or whatever that will change the government in germany.
m>
m> >Wow. If someone here said something like that about Clinton, they'd
m> >probably get a visit from the Secret Service.
Which part of mclane's sentence should be taken as invitation?
-don't need England or America? hardly. ;-)
-Baader-meinhof - RAF killing Kohl? Ulrike Meinhof and Andreas Baader are
dead and something named "Baader-Meinhof-RAF" never
existed, so it's like asking Elvis&Jimmy Dean to kill
Clinton. You Think someone really cares in US?
-revolution or whatever will change government? This "whatever" is called
"votes/elections" and people are made to believe
changing the government is changing something else.
m> >bruce
m>
m> Bruce . members of the left-wing-parties in germany WERE controlled by
m> the BND, that IS the german-version of the Secret-Service.
Stupidity named BND! As soon as people form a left wing party they are
going to control themselves! ;-)
m> But in the moment SO MANY PEOPLE IN GERMANY THINK THE SAME, they can't
m> control them all.
Please don't claim too much "thinking".
m> It is the best thing for the government to retire, because they have
m> ruined germany. It will need some more days, but IMO before this year
m> is over, they will have found out themselves.
Wake up! Kohl is a No. 1 expert in juggling with influences and conflicting
interests. See how easy he calmed down miners "revolt". Just promises
about some billion DMs
spoken into the wind and having heared him lying for years union leaders
said they were satisfied. His main concern was IMHO to separate miners
from building workers -the old divide and conquer game which he plays
really excellent. Wait and see for his next trick.
BTW what do You expect from an ew government. Don't You think it would
be something like guiding new pigs to old feeding grounds?
Rolf
mclane
r...@viking.ruhr.com (Rolf Czedzak) wrote:
>mclane wrote: <E75D1...@news.prima.ruhr.de>
>m> brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>m>
>m> >mclane wrote:
>m>
>m>
>m> >> But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
>m> >> it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution
>m> >> or whatever that will change the government in germany.
>m>
>m> >Wow. If someone here said something like that about Clinton, they'd
>m> >probably get a visit from the Secret Service.
>Which part of mclane's sentence should be taken as invitation?
>-don't need England or America? hardly. ;-)
>-Baader-meinhof - RAF killing Kohl? Ulrike Meinhof and Andreas Baader are
> dead and something named "Baader-Meinhof-RAF" never
> existed, so it's like asking Elvis&Jimmy Dean to kill
> Clinton. You Think someone really cares in US?
>-revolution or whatever will change government? This "whatever" is called
> "votes/elections" and people are made to believe
> changing the government is changing something else.
Ulrike-Marie is living in our hearts. She cannot die. She speaks out
of us.
>
>m> >bruce
>m>
>m> Bruce . members of the left-wing-parties in germany WERE controlled by
>m> the BND, that IS the german-version of the Secret-Service.
>Stupidity named BND! As soon as people form a left wing party they are
>going to control themselves! ;-)
I don't understand this joke.... but... whatever.
I am a member of a left-wing party, we were called radicals, although
I don't know what that means, maybe that we don't drive 200 Km/h on
the motorways, or maybe that we do not rape our women and misuse our
children like the normal-german is doing.
>m> But in the moment SO MANY PEOPLE IN GERMANY THINK THE SAME, they can't
>m> control them all.
>Please don't claim too much "thinking".
The lefties THINK, the others eat and drink.
>m> It is the best thing for the government to retire, because they have
>m> ruined germany. It will need some more days, but IMO before this year
>m> is over, they will have found out themselves.
>Wake up! Kohl is a No. 1 expert in juggling with influences and conflicting
>interests. See how easy he calmed down miners "revolt". Just promises
>about some billion DMs
>spoken into the wind and having heared him lying for years union leaders
>said they were satisfied. His main concern was IMHO to separate miners
>from building workers -the old divide and conquer game which he plays
>really excellent. Wait and see for his next trick.
There will be no next trick. Believe me. Some people die before they
grow old.
>BTW what do You expect from an ew government. Don't You think it would
>be something like guiding new pigs to old feeding grounds?
What do I expect ? I have not voted for them. The ones that have voted
them should have a sign in their face, that we can better find out who
they are. Because THEY are in charge....
>Rolf
Harald Faber
quoting a mail from mclane # prima.ruhr.de
Hello mclane,
m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
m> Subject: Re: Going commercial, maybe
m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund
m> Yes - england is brilliant. Britains like you are brilliant and we
m> need you to help us. Also we need the american help. I will never
m> forget the marshall plan.
m>
m> But what we need in the moment is not England or America,
m> it is the Baader-Meinhof - RAF killing Kohl or it is a revolution or
m> whatever that will change the government in germany.
Wait and see next elections next year when Birne Kohl will be elected
again by all the dumb lemmings not seeing that Birne will lead us to 10
million unemployed.
Harald
--
Tom C. Kerrigan
brucemo (bru...@nwlink.com) wrote:
> Tom C. Kerrigan wrote:
> > Can't always be this way. I tell jokes that get Americans rolling on the
> > floor (and not because they're so bad) but everybody here just sort of
> > nods.
> I think perhaps you are exposing flaws in the American national character.
> bruce
Quite possibly. Or vice versa. The funniest stuff on German TV (according
to most Germans, too) is dubbed US/British stuff. My quest for a German
humor book has ended in failure... everything I found was a translation
from English...
Cheers,
Tom
Rolf Czedzak
mclane wrote: <E77Do...@news.prima.ruhr.de>
m> Ulrike-Marie is living in our hearts. She cannot die. She speaks out
m> of us.
I'm sorry that she can't defend against this claim.
m> >m> Bruce . members of the left-wing-parties in germany WERE
m> >m> controlled by the BND, that IS the german-version of the
m> >m> Secret-Service.
m>
m> >Stupidity named BND! As soon as people form a left wing party they
m> >are going to control themselves! ;-)
m>
m> I don't understand this joke.... but... whatever.
m> I am a member of a left-wing party, we were called radicals, although
m> I don't know what that means, maybe that we don't drive 200 Km/h on
m> the motorways, or maybe that we do not rape our women and misuse our
m> children like the normal-german is doing.
Gimme more of the campfire tales of leftic circles.
BTW stop using the words our & women in the same context. The ladies might
kill you and eat Your <censored>.
m> What do I expect ? I have not voted for them.
Quite a lot of his voters are from left to ultra left wing 'cause they
wanted the "working class" to see clearly what's "really" going on in this
country. Just my .02 of conspiracy_currency.
m> The ones that have voted
m> them should have a sign in their face, that we can better find out who
m> they are. Because THEY are in charge....
Read a history book before You try to put a brand on people for being
guilty of <insert what You like>. Oh, I see, It's been the OTHERS. :-(
Rolf (C)
PS
I'm not thinking about the political spectrum as something with two
wings, but rather as a circle. That means the more s.o. is to the left,
the nearer he is to the right.
Harald Faber
## Nachricht vom : 16.03.97 weitergeleitet
## Ursprung : /FIDO/REC.GAMES.CHESS.COMPUTER
## Ersteller war : mclane # prima.ruhr.de@1001:1/0
m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
m> Subject: Re: Going commercial, maybe
m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund
m> >TCK> Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to
m> >TCK> laugh at my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate it
m> >TCK> when that happens.
m> >TCK> Tom
m> >It is always "own jokes are always the best jokes", right? :-)
m> Germans are vulcans ! Aren't they ?!
Don't know in which sense you mean.
Tschuessikowski
Harald
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Harald Faber
## Nachricht vom : 16.03.97 weitergeleitet
## Ursprung : /FIDO/REC.GAMES.CHESS.COMPUTER
TCK> From: kerr...@merlin.pn.org (Tom C. Kerrigan)
TCK> Subject: Re: Going commercial, maybe
TCK> Organization: Pendragon Network, Germany
TCK> > TCK> Or maybe just Peter. I still can't get this family I live with to
TCK> > TCK> laugh at my jokes. Some of them are really good jokes, too. I hate
TCK> > TCK> it when that happens.
TCK> > TCK> Tom
TCK> > It is always "own jokes are always the best jokes", right? :-)
TCK> Can't always be this way. I tell jokes that get Americans rolling on the
TCK> floor (and not because they're so bad) but everybody here just sort of
TCK> nods.
TCK> Tom
It is depending on problems of understanding. I am sure many many non-
German-people, even if they learned some german at school or whereever
don't get many jokes we make.
But for me this is no problem.
Tschuessikowski
Harald
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