Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Little Goliath 2000

3 views
Skip to first unread message

Chris Brennen

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to
Hi all,
Sory for my ignorence in this field, but I'm new to computer chess. How do
I install / use Little Goliath 2000? Installing Deep Trouble and others was
fairly simple, but this is something different.
Hope you can help.
--
Regards,
Chris Brennen
http://www.radiouk.org.uk
The New Look CRW is now LIVE!!! - 1/10/00

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to

Chris Brennen <cbre...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> skrev i en
nyhedsmeddelelse:39d7...@news.jakinternet.co.uk...

> Hi all,
> Sory for my ignorence in this field, but I'm new to computer chess. How
do
> I install / use Little Goliath 2000? Installing Deep Trouble and others
was
> fairly simple, but this is something different.

Actually it's just as easy, at least in principle. Just go to

http://www.borgstaedt.de/

and download LG2000 v2.9a + large opening book. Place them in the same
directory and add the usual type of WinBoard.ini lines, eg.

\"LG2000v29a\" /fd=c:\\Path
\"LG2000v29a\" /sd=c:\\Path

Just remember to check Goliath.ini for wrong settings. The important part
should look something like this:

HASHSIZE [2 - 384 MB]=32
COMBINATION [ON or OFF]=OFF
CHESS KNOWLEDGE [ON or OFF]=ON
-----------------------------
BOOK [ON or OFF]=ON
LEARNING [ON or OFF]=ON
LOG-FILE [ON or OFF]=OFF
..
..
and so on...

Of course less ram for hash might be necessary.

Best wishes...
Mogens


Chris Brennen

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to

> Actually it's just as easy, at least in principle. Just go to
>
> http://www.borgstaedt.de/

Snipped...
Great!! It works now. It's very strong. Well, I'm getting unmetered net
access soon, so if any of you are on FICS, then I'll be there, handle
radiouk
--
Best Regards,

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:54:04 +0200, "Mogens Chr. Larsen"
<m...@mail1.stofanet.dk> wrote:

>
>Chris Brennen <cbre...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> skrev i en
>nyhedsmeddelelse:39d7...@news.jakinternet.co.uk...
>> Hi all,
>> Sory for my ignorence in this field, but I'm new to computer chess. How
>do
>> I install / use Little Goliath 2000? Installing Deep Trouble and others
>was
>> fairly simple, but this is something different.
>

>Actually it's just as easy, at least in principle. Just go to
>
>http://www.borgstaedt.de/
>

>and download LG2000 v2.9a + large opening book. Place them in the same
>directory and add the usual type of WinBoard.ini lines, eg.
>
>\"LG2000v29a\" /fd=c:\\Path
>\"LG2000v29a\" /sd=c:\\Path
>
>Just remember to check Goliath.ini for wrong settings. The important part
>should look something like this:
>
>HASHSIZE [2 - 384 MB]=32
>COMBINATION [ON or OFF]=OFF
>CHESS KNOWLEDGE [ON or OFF]=ON
>-----------------------------
>BOOK [ON or OFF]=ON
>LEARNING [ON or OFF]=ON
>LOG-FILE [ON or OFF]=OFF
>..
>..
>and so on...

It didn't work. And the guy who wrote the program--his directions for
setting it up in fritz include copying a file that's not in fritz.
Maybe it's in chessbase. I don't have chessbase.

Junior

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to
> It didn't work. And the guy who wrote the program--his directions for
> setting it up in fritz include copying a file that's not in fritz.
> Maybe it's in chessbase. I don't have chessbase.

It works. Under WinBoard and Fritz Light without problems. What file is
supposedly missing? If it's the .init file then you can create it yourself
or download it at Frank Q's WinBoard site.

Mogens.


PMG

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to

> It didn't work. And the guy who wrote the program--his directions for
> setting it up in fritz include copying a file that's not in fritz.
> Maybe it's in chessbase. I don't have chessbase.
>

> Junior

It works just fine in a Chessbase interface. Goto this page
http://amateurschach.in-trier.de/gambit/gambit.htm for instruction. You
should be able to find the Winboard adopter there too, if that's the
file you can't find.

You didn't ask how to run it in a Chessbase interface, so Mogens gave
you instructions for running it in Winboard. That is different. But it
works in both places last time I checked.

Pete

--
When it gets to here, we can drink again
--Lenny (looking at makeshift sundial on Moe's floor)

PMG

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to

The Drunken Lord wrote:


>
> On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:30:22 -0500, PMG <av...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >> It didn't work. And the guy who wrote the program--his directions for
> >> setting it up in fritz include copying a file that's not in fritz.
> >> Maybe it's in chessbase. I don't have chessbase.
> >>
> >> Junior
> >
> >It works just fine in a Chessbase interface.
>

> I don't have Chessbase. I've got Fritz. I'm not sure if that means a
> Chessbase interface.

Yes, Fritz is by the Chessbase company.

>
> >Goto this page
> >http://amateurschach.in-trier.de/gambit/gambit.htm for instruction.
>

> I'm certain there's a lot of good info there, but I don't read German.
> Thanks anyway.

Use an online translator, altavista's bablefish for example.

>
> >You
> >should be able to find the Winboard adopter there too, if that's the
> >file you can't find.
> >
> >You didn't ask how to run it in a Chessbase interface, so Mogens gave
> >you instructions for running it in Winboard. That is different. But it
> >works in both places last time I checked.
>

> I didn't ask for any instructions at all on this. I commented on the
> fact that the guy has crap instructions on his webpage for setting it
> up in Fritz. It doesn't work--not according to his directions. That
> doesn't mean somebody can't get it to work--all it means is that his
> instructions are crap.
>
> Junior

See above.

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 9:07:54 PM10/1/00
to
On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:30:22 -0500, PMG <av...@mediaone.net> wrote:

>> It didn't work. And the guy who wrote the program--his directions for
>> setting it up in fritz include copying a file that's not in fritz.
>> Maybe it's in chessbase. I don't have chessbase.
>>
>> Junior
>
>It works just fine in a Chessbase interface.

I don't have Chessbase. I've got Fritz. I'm not sure if that means a
Chessbase interface.

>Goto this page
>http://amateurschach.in-trier.de/gambit/gambit.htm for instruction.

I'm certain there's a lot of good info there, but I don't read German.
Thanks anyway.

>You

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
> I didn't ask for any instructions at all on this. I commented on the
> fact that the guy has crap instructions on his webpage for setting it
> up in Fritz. It doesn't work--not according to his directions. That
> doesn't mean somebody can't get it to work--all it means is that his
> instructions are crap.

You install LG2000 the same way under the Fritz GUI as you would with any
other engine, so there's no difference between LG2000 and other WinBoard
programs. If you want I could post a step by step that would guarantee a
successful installation of LG2000 under Fritz. Unless you'v managed to make
it work on your own that is.

Mogens.


PMG

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to

"Mogens Chr. Larsen" wrote:
>
> > I didn't ask for any instructions at all on this. I commented on the
> > fact that the guy has crap instructions on his webpage for setting it
> > up in Fritz. It doesn't work--not according to his directions. That
> > doesn't mean somebody can't get it to work--all it means is that his
> > instructions are crap.
>

> You install LG2000 the same way under the Fritz GUI as you would with any
> other engine, so there's no difference between LG2000 and other WinBoard
> programs. If you want I could post a step by step that would guarantee a
> successful installation of LG2000 under Fritz. Unless you'v managed to make
> it work on your own that is.
>
> Mogens.

I'd ignore him Mogens, it's now evident that he's not interested in
making it work, he just seems to want to complain. I didn't realize
that earlier.

Pete

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 8:26:47 PM10/2/00
to
On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:12:08 +0200, "Mogens Chr. Larsen"
<m...@mail1.stofanet.dk> wrote:

>> I didn't ask for any instructions at all on this. I commented on the
>> fact that the guy has crap instructions on his webpage for setting it
>> up in Fritz. It doesn't work--not according to his directions. That
>> doesn't mean somebody can't get it to work--all it means is that his
>> instructions are crap.
>

>You install LG2000 the same way under the Fritz GUI as you would with any
>other engine, so there's no difference between LG2000 and other WinBoard
>programs. If you want I could post a step by step that would guarantee a
>successful installation of LG2000 under Fritz. Unless you'v managed to make
>it work on your own that is.

Yeah, tell me how to install it under Fritz. I got it installed under
winboard.

Junior

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 8:28:28 PM10/2/00
to
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:27:24 +0200, "Mogens Chr. Larsen"
<m...@mail1.stofanet.dk> wrote:

>> It didn't work. And the guy who wrote the program--his directions for
>> setting it up in fritz include copying a file that's not in fritz.
>> Maybe it's in chessbase. I don't have chessbase.
>

>It works. Under WinBoard and Fritz Light without problems. What file is
>supposedly missing?

winboard.eng

The guy at the goliath site says you need it to install under Fritz.
But he didn't say where to get it. I just figured it came with fritz,
but it doesn't.

>If it's the .init file then you can create it yourself
>or download it at Frank Q's WinBoard site.

I copied somebody's .init file from some site and got the stuff
installed that way.

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 8:29:16 PM10/2/00
to
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:54:04 +0200, "Mogens Chr. Larsen"
<m...@mail1.stofanet.dk> wrote:

>
>Chris Brennen <cbre...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> skrev i en
>nyhedsmeddelelse:39d7...@news.jakinternet.co.uk...
>> Hi all,
>> Sory for my ignorence in this field, but I'm new to computer chess. How
>do
>> I install / use Little Goliath 2000? Installing Deep Trouble and others
>was
>> fairly simple, but this is something different.
>
>Actually it's just as easy, at least in principle. Just go to
>
>http://www.borgstaedt.de/
>
>and download LG2000 v2.9a + large opening book. Place them in the same
>directory and add the usual type of WinBoard.ini lines, eg.
>
>\"LG2000v29a\" /fd=c:\\Path
>\"LG2000v29a\" /sd=c:\\Path
>
>Just remember to check Goliath.ini for wrong settings. The important part
>should look something like this:

"Something like this" don't cut it.


Junior

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/3/00
to
> "Something like this" don't cut it.

Yes, it does. The goliath.ini is very uncomplicated to configure.

Mogens.


Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/3/00
to
> Yeah, tell me how to install it under Fritz. I got it installed under
> winboard.

Here goes:

1) Copy your LG2000 WinBoard (I use the name LG2000 for simplicity) folder
to the Fritz engines directory containing all the files:

LG2000.exe, goliath.ini, goliath.che, book.dat, book.ind, goliath.lrn and
LG2000.init.

The .init and executable must have the same name, ie. LG2000. Btw, the
bookfiles are not necessary if you want to use Fritz books.

2) Download the adapter (WinBoard.eng) from this site (the newest one):

http://amateurschach.in-trier.de/schach/download/download-17.htm

Rename it to LG2000.eng an copy it to the Fritz engines directory. Has to
have the same name as the folder copied under 1).

3) Done. You should now discover that an engine named lg2000 is listed in
the engines menu under Fritz.

The same procedure goes for all WinBoard programs.

Best wishes...
Mogens

PS: Here's how the .init file should look like:

[Parameter]
CommandLine =
Engine = LG2000 v2.9a
Author = Michael Borgstädt, Germany
Debug = False

[Support]
AnalyzeMode = False
PonderMode = False
CastleAndEP = False


mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/3/00
to
In article <39DA32...@ihug.com.au>,
michael adams <no...@ihug.com.au> wrote:
> S'cuse me,Drunken Lordy,can I get you a refill of best Australian
'red'
> 'gards Mick.
>

He's probably just drinking communion wine. Leaves something to be
desired. I've tasted better stuff coming out of a garden hose.

Mongo


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

michael adams

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 3:24:58 PM10/3/00
to

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 8:30:46 PM10/3/00
to

>Here goes:
>
>1) Copy your LG2000 WinBoard (I use the name LG2000 for simplicity) folder
>to the Fritz engines directory containing all the files:
>
>LG2000.exe, goliath.ini, goliath.che, book.dat, book.ind, goliath.lrn and
>LG2000.init.
>
>The .init and executable must have the same name, ie. LG2000. Btw, the
>bookfiles are not necessary if you want to use Fritz books.
>
>2) Download the adapter (WinBoard.eng) from this site (the newest one):
>
>http://amateurschach.in-trier.de/schach/download/download-17.htm


There is no file at that site called WinBoard.eng. There are quite a
few files there. It is helpful to know the EXACT name of a file.
Would it be adapter_00727.zip, which contains a file called
adapter.eng?

You see, when the guy at the website and you specify "winboard.eng"
and there is no winboard.eng where you say to look--well, the
directions are no good at all.


>Rename it to LG2000.eng an copy it to the Fritz engines directory. Has to
>have the same name as the folder copied under 1).
>
>3) Done. You should now discover that an engine named lg2000 is listed in
>the engines menu under Fritz.
>
>The same procedure goes for all WinBoard programs.
>
>Best wishes...
>Mogens
>
>PS: Here's how the .init file should look like:
>
>[Parameter]
>CommandLine =
>Engine = LG2000 v2.9a
>Author = Michael Borgstädt, Germany
>Debug = False
>
>[Support]
>AnalyzeMode = False
>PonderMode = False
>CastleAndEP = False

I just wonder if it should look like that or if it should look about
like that.

Once I get find the winboard.eng file, I guess I can find out.


Junior

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 8:45:25 PM10/3/00
to
> There is no file at that site called WinBoard.eng. There are quite a
> few files there. It is helpful to know the EXACT name of a file.
> Would it be adapter_00727.zip, which contains a file called
> adapter.eng?
>
> You see, when the guy at the website and you specify "winboard.eng"
> and there is no winboard.eng where you say to look--well, the
> directions are no good at all.

There's a file called "Chess-Base WB Adapter" and there's even a small
Chessbase logo. I don't think simple comprehension is too much to ask for,
nor is your attitude very appealing. You only had to ask if the adapter.eng
and the winboard.eng are one and the same. They are, in case you wondered.

> I just wonder if it should look like that or if it should look about
> like that.

That depends. Take a chance, try it and see what happens.

> Once I get find the winboard.eng file, I guess I can find out.

Good luck in your search.

Regards,
Mogens

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 3, 2000, 10:56:22 PM10/3/00
to
In article <6euktsgshjbt9dood...@4ax.com>,

If you're sitting on top of a freight train, and you see a tunnel
approaching ahead, just for you information, that's a pretty good
indication that you should duck.

I just thought I should mention that since sometimes there isn't a sign
_telling_ you to duck.

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
news:6euktsgshjbt9dood...@4ax.com...

>
> Once I get find the winboard.eng file, I guess I can find out.

Search engines are a Good Thing.
http://www.chessbase.com/Products/engines/winboard/adapter.htm and click on
"Download the Winboard adapter (Version Dec 7, 1998)."

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

<mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8re68l$vit$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

>
> If you're sitting on top of a freight train, and you see a tunnel
> approaching ahead, just for you information, that's a pretty good
> indication that you should duck.
>
> I just thought I should mention that since sometimes there isn't a sign
> _telling_ you to duck.

Or "fish."

http://www.examiner.com/000830/0830fish.html

If your taste runs along those lines, there are more links to such at:
http://www.weirdweb.20m.com/

JB

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to
[Sigh]

*PLONK*

PMG

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

Paul Morphy wrote:
>
> <mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8re68l$vit$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >

> > If you're sitting on top of a freight train, and you see a tunnel
> > approaching ahead, just for you information, that's a pretty good
> > indication that you should duck.
> >
> > I just thought I should mention that since sometimes there isn't a sign
> > _telling_ you to duck.
>

> Or "fish."
>
> http://www.examiner.com/000830/0830fish.html
>
> If your taste runs along those lines, there are more links to such at:
> http://www.weirdweb.20m.com/

Good stuff. In Wisconsin, the number 1 cause of drowning is fisherman
standing up and peeing over the side of the boat. They know this is
what happened because when they find the flatlanders in the water, their
zipper is usually down.

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

PMG <av...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:39DB7C02...@mediaone.net...

>
>
> Paul Morphy wrote:
> >
> > <mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:8re68l$vit$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >
> > > If you're sitting on top of a freight train, and you see a tunnel
> > > approaching ahead, just for you information, that's a pretty good
> > > indication that you should duck.
> > >
> > > I just thought I should mention that since sometimes there isn't a
sign
> > > _telling_ you to duck.
> >
> > Or "fish."
> >
> > http://www.examiner.com/000830/0830fish.html
> >
> > If your taste runs along those lines, there are more links to such at:
> > http://www.weirdweb.20m.com/
>
> Good stuff. In Wisconsin, the number 1 cause of drowning is fisherman
> standing up and peeing over the side of the boat. They know this is
> what happened because when they find the flatlanders in the water, their
> zipper is usually down.

Geez, and the fish have to live in that water. I had a great story about a
guy who was returning from a sports event in a bus. He stuck his head out
the skylight to catch some fresh air and was decapitated. But I couldn't
find the link. The fish story was the best I could do. Somehow I knew you'd
like it. The only thing that would have improved it for you would have been
if the head had been found in a hammerhead shark.


PMG

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

Paul Morphy wrote:
>
> PMG <av...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> news:39DB7C02...@mediaone.net...
> >
> >
> > Paul Morphy wrote:
> > >
> > > <mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > > news:8re68l$vit$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > >

> > > > If you're sitting on top of a freight train, and you see a tunnel
> > > > approaching ahead, just for you information, that's a pretty good
> > > > indication that you should duck.
> > > >
> > > > I just thought I should mention that since sometimes there isn't a
> sign
> > > > _telling_ you to duck.
> > >

> > > Or "fish."
> > >
> > > http://www.examiner.com/000830/0830fish.html
> > >
> > > If your taste runs along those lines, there are more links to such at:
> > > http://www.weirdweb.20m.com/
> >
> > Good stuff. In Wisconsin, the number 1 cause of drowning is fisherman
> > standing up and peeing over the side of the boat. They know this is
> > what happened because when they find the flatlanders in the water, their
> > zipper is usually down.
>
> Geez, and the fish have to live in that water. I had a great story about a
> guy who was returning from a sports event in a bus. He stuck his head out
> the skylight to catch some fresh air and was decapitated. But I couldn't
> find the link. The fish story was the best I could do. Somehow I knew you'd
> like it. The only thing that would have improved it for you would have been
> if the head had been found in a hammerhead shark.

That sounds like something out of one of my favorite songs
http://www.worldofcheese.org/_board/0000005f.htm

Ya' know what Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people,
here, in the trailer park.
[great stuff snipped]
I first became aware of all this, about 10 years ago. The summer my
oldest boy, Bill Jr., died. You know that carnival that comes through
town every year? Well this year they came through with a ride called
"The Mixer." The man said, "keep your head and arms inside the mixer at
all times." But Bill Jr., he was a daredevil. Just like his old man. He
was leaning out saying, "Hey everybody, look at me, look at me." POW! He
was decapitated. They found his head over by the snowcone concession. A
few days after that, I open up the mail and there's a pamphlet in there,
from Pueblo, Colorado. And it's addressed to Bill Jr. And it's entitled,
"Do you know what the queers are doing to our soil!"

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

Thanks to a bad directions from you and a couple hours fiddling, I
figured it out just fine.

You see, when you give directions, they need to be precise. None of
this, well, it looks about like that, etc.

Junior

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
news:2jgnts0ksqbvnle22...@4ax.com...

> Thanks to a bad directions from you and a couple hours fiddling, I
> figured it out just fine.
>
> You see, when you give directions, they need to be precise. None of
> this, well, it looks about like that, etc.

What does this look like to you, 24/7 Tech Support?

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00
to

<mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8rgr7c$5pp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <39dbe638.47888577@localhost>,
> baays...@intrepid.net (pulgao) wrote:

> > On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:39:36 -0400, "Paul Morphy"
> > <paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >What does this look like to you, 24/7 Tech Support?
> > >
> >
> > And some people actually feel the need to ask me why I stopped
> > answering tech support questions on Usenet...
> >
> > -- Steve Lopez
> >
>
> Mongo says usenet is better used for entertainment than tech support.
>
> BTW, I'm trying to install Fritz6 on my Apple II, but I can't get that
> that disk to fit in that slot on my computer, so now there's a bunch of
> scratches on the silver side. So I covered the scratches with
> Magic-Tape so that the program won't skip. Should I have used
> cellophane tape instead?
>
> And why do they call that case that Fritz came in a Jewel Case? There
> were no jewels in mine. And I had a hard time getting the case to let
> go of the program, so I took a hammer and I had to break that thing out
> of the center of the case to get it out of there. I hope Chessbase is
> going to replace that under warrantee!

Usenet is always entertaining. And sometimes useful. I don't know why you
used a hammer on that jewel case. A Bic lighter works just as well and you
don't have pieces of plastic all over the place. If you screwed up the disk,
just take an AOL disk, scrape off some of the silver and glue it on where
yours is scratched. Use quick setting epoxy. I hope this technical
information is helpful to you.


pulgao

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 10:25:11 PM10/4/00
to
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:39:36 -0400, "Paul Morphy"
<paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:

>
>The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
>news:2jgnts0ksqbvnle22...@4ax.com...
>
>> Thanks to a bad directions from you and a couple hours fiddling, I
>> figured it out just fine.
>>
>> You see, when you give directions, they need to be precise. None of
>> this, well, it looks about like that, etc.
>

>What does this look like to you, 24/7 Tech Support?
>

And some people actually feel the need to ask me why I stopped
answering tech support questions on Usenet...

-- Steve Lopez

"Chess is ruthless: you've got to be prepared to kill people." - Nigel Short
The Chess Kamikaze Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/ludekdudek/
The Chess Kamikaze Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chesskamikazes

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 11:06:23 PM10/4/00
to
In article <39dbe638.47888577@localhost>,
baays...@intrepid.net (pulgao) wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:39:36 -0400, "Paul Morphy"
> <paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
> >news:2jgnts0ksqbvnle22...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> Thanks to a bad directions from you and a couple hours fiddling, I
> >> figured it out just fine.
> >>
> >> You see, when you give directions, they need to be precise. None
of
> >> this, well, it looks about like that, etc.
> >
> >What does this look like to you, 24/7 Tech Support?
> >
>
> And some people actually feel the need to ask me why I stopped
> answering tech support questions on Usenet...
>
> -- Steve Lopez
>

Mongo says usenet is better used for entertainment than tech support.

BTW, I'm trying to install Fritz6 on my Apple II, but I can't get that
that disk to fit in that slot on my computer, so now there's a bunch of
scratches on the silver side. So I covered the scratches with
Magic-Tape so that the program won't skip. Should I have used
cellophane tape instead?

And why do they call that case that Fritz came in a Jewel Case? There
were no jewels in mine. And I had a hard time getting the case to let
go of the program, so I took a hammer and I had to break that thing out
of the center of the case to get it out of there. I hope Chessbase is
going to replace that under warrantee!

Mongo

pulgao

unread,
Oct 4, 2000, 11:44:06 PM10/4/00
to
On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 03:06:23 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:

>BTW, I'm trying to install Fritz6 on my Apple II, but I can't get that
>that disk to fit in that slot on my computer, so now there's a bunch of
>scratches on the silver side. So I covered the scratches with
>Magic-Tape so that the program won't skip. Should I have used
>cellophane tape instead?
>
>And why do they call that case that Fritz came in a Jewel Case? There
>were no jewels in mine. And I had a hard time getting the case to let
>go of the program, so I took a hammer and I had to break that thing out
>of the center of the case to get it out of there. I hope Chessbase is
>going to replace that under warrantee!

You see that as parody, I see that as a day in the life.

Mathias Wuellenweber (ChessBase programmer) wrote a hilarious post
here in rgcc a couple of years ago, saying that ChessBase 7 would have
a new form of copy protection that consisted of a new processor chip
that would have to be internally installed into a computer. This would
eliminate the need for an external dongle, so that the user wouldn't
risk breaking off the printer port on his laptop computer. In fact,
Matthias said, you'd even be able to use your laptop to drive nails
into the wall without risking snapping off the printer port.

I laughed until the tears rolled when I read that. But the funniest
part was yet to come -- several people *believed him* and posted angry
replies saying that there was no way they'd ever purchase ChessBase
with a system requirement like that. In fact, I still get phone calls
from people who say "I hear that ChessBase requires a chip to be
installed in the computer -- is that *true*?" and I end up having to
gag back the laughter all over again.

BTW -- CB7 had no copy protection, chip or otherwise.

Have a look at this site:

http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/

It's not a listing of *every* instance of computer user stupidity
known to mankind, but it's damn close. About 2/3rds of all tech
support problems occur because of a critcal failure somewhere between
the keyboard and the chair.

I've had two instances in the last year (one with a famous
chessplayer) in which a person called for technical help and then
completely *refused* to follow my intructions. I don't mean that they
followed them incorrectly -- I mean that they just plain didn't want
to do it. One guy had forgotten what folder a particular database was
in, so I tried to show him how to use Start/Find/Files or Folders in
Windoze to find it. He flat REFUSED to do it and then complained that
I wasn't being "helpful". So I've recently started studying voodoo to
help me in such cases. When my studies are complete, I'll simply
decapitate a chicken, wave it over the phone, and enable the forces of
voudoun to solve the problem on the other end of the line.

And I used to agree with your assertion that Usenet should be used
strictly for its entertainment value but lately, to quote Paul Simon,
"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore".

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 1:43:24 AM10/5/00
to
> Thanks to a bad directions from you and a couple hours fiddling, I
> figured it out just fine.

My directions were very precise. To take an example I wrote: "Download the
adapter" in my install guide. Take a look at your answer and tell me who's
being stupid. I'll even give you a clue, it's not me.

> You see, when you give directions, they need to be precise. None of
> this, well, it looks about like that, etc.

The .init file didn't have to look exactly like the one I quoted, so again
my answer was precise.

Take this as free advice. Let Senior handle it the next time.

Mogens.

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 1:51:58 AM10/5/00
to
In article <8rgtet$jvc$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>,

"Paul Morphy" <paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
> <mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8rgr7c$5pp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Usenet is always entertaining. And sometimes useful. I don't know why
you
> used a hammer on that jewel case. A Bic lighter works just as well and
you
> don't have pieces of plastic all over the place. If you screwed up the
disk,
> just take an AOL disk, scrape off some of the silver and glue it on
where
> yours is scratched. Use quick setting epoxy. I hope this technical
> information is helpful to you.
>
>

Mongo make note! I gave the last AOL disk to the dog for a frisby, I'll
get it back.

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 2:07:38 AM10/5/00
to
In article <39dbf54d.51749396@localhost>,

You passed that url on to Mongo a month ago, it's bookmarked.

>
> It's not a listing of *every* instance of computer user stupidity
> known to mankind, but it's damn close. About 2/3rds of all tech
> support problems occur because of a critcal failure somewhere between
> the keyboard and the chair.
>
> I've had two instances in the last year (one with a famous
> chessplayer) in which a person called for technical help and then
> completely *refused* to follow my intructions. I don't mean that they
> followed them incorrectly -- I mean that they just plain didn't want
> to do it. One guy had forgotten what folder a particular database was
> in, so I tried to show him how to use Start/Find/Files or Folders in
> Windoze to find it. He flat REFUSED to do it and then complained that
> I wasn't being "helpful". So I've recently started studying voodoo to
> help me in such cases. When my studies are complete, I'll simply
> decapitate a chicken, wave it over the phone, and enable the forces of
> voudoun to solve the problem on the other end of the line.

When you do tech service calls, you need to have Screamin' Jay Hawkins
playing in the background on a continuous loop.

>
> And I used to agree with your assertion that Usenet should be used
> strictly for its entertainment value but lately, to quote Paul Simon,
> "I don't find this stuff amusing anymore".
>
> -- Steve Lopez
>

Paul Simon was the only person I know who could pull off that Clark
Kent/Superman trick! Because when you put him in a tee shirt and handed
him a guitar, you'd swear he was an entertainer. But when you put
glasses and a bow-tie on him, he became a senator from Illinois. And
nobody could tell that it was the same guy!

pulgao

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 06:07:38 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:


>> http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/
>
>You passed that url on to Mongo a month ago, it's bookmarked.

So nice I named it twice. Check out some of the new stories -- I don't
know whether to laugh or cry. One of my favorites (that's been on the
site for a while) is the woman who wanted to return a copy of Windows
because she's Protestant and doesn't believe in icons.

>When you do tech service calls, you need to have Screamin' Jay Hawkins
>playing in the background on a continuous loop.

Screamin' Jay is *always* appropriate background music, regardless of
the circumstances.

>Paul Simon was the only person I know who could pull off that Clark
>Kent/Superman trick! Because when you put him in a tee shirt and handed
>him a guitar, you'd swear he was an entertainer. But when you put
>glasses and a bow-tie on him, he became a senator from Illinois. And
>nobody could tell that it was the same guy!

I saw him on the Today Show this morning when I flipped on the set --
he seemed like he was going for the Spielberg look. I didn't stick
around for the whole interview; I was itching to watch my tape of
Battlebots from last night. I really like the killsaws that come up
from the floor. I'd enjoy seeing something similar happen to the
computers of a few people who've e-mailed me recently.

Hi Kaliber

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
What ever floats your boat, Bubba . . .

"pulgao" <baays...@intrepid.net> wrote in message
news:39dbf54d.51749396@localhost...

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to

pulgao <baays...@intrepid.net> wrote in message
news:39dc825f.1377979@localhost...

> On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 06:07:38 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
> >> http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/

I'm starting a job in tech support next week and have been studying this
site carefully. I've also been increasing my dosage of scotch.

> >Paul Simon was the only person I know who could pull off that Clark
> >Kent/Superman trick! Because when you put him in a tee shirt and handed
> >him a guitar, you'd swear he was an entertainer. But when you put
> >glasses and a bow-tie on him, he became a senator from Illinois. And
> >nobody could tell that it was the same guy!
>

> I saw him on the Today Show this morning when I flipped on the set --
> he seemed like he was going for the Spielberg look. I didn't stick
> around for the whole interview; I was itching to watch my tape of
> Battlebots from last night. I really like the killsaws that come up
> from the floor. I'd enjoy seeing something similar happen to the
> computers of a few people who've e-mailed me recently.

I like Paul Simon, the entertainer. Guy writes from the heart.


pulgao <baays...@intrepid.net> wrote in message
news:39dbf54d.51749396@localhost...
>

> And I used to agree with your assertion that Usenet should be used
> strictly for its entertainment value but lately, to quote Paul Simon,
> "I don't find this stuff amusing anymore".

I have learned various coping mechanisms, but I cannot reveal them, even to
a follower of Voudo. Aside from aggressive use of the killfilter.

http://www.jesus21.com/writers/lambert/voodoo.html

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
In article <39dc825f.1377979@localhost>,

baays...@intrepid.net (pulgao) wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 06:07:38 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >> http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/
> >
> >You passed that url on to Mongo a month ago, it's bookmarked.
>
> So nice I named it twice. Check out some of the new stories -- I don't
> know whether to laugh or cry. One of my favorites (that's been on the
> site for a while) is the woman who wanted to return a copy of Windows
> because she's Protestant and doesn't believe in icons.

I'll take another look at the site. There's way to much there, it's
imposible to read everything.

>
> >When you do tech service calls, you need to have Screamin' Jay
Hawkins
> >playing in the background on a continuous loop.
>

> Screamin' Jay is *always* appropriate background music, regardless of
> the circumstances.

He's the man.

>
> >Paul Simon was the only person I know who could pull off that Clark
> >Kent/Superman trick! Because when you put him in a tee shirt and
handed
> >him a guitar, you'd swear he was an entertainer. But when you put
> >glasses and a bow-tie on him, he became a senator from Illinois. And
> >nobody could tell that it was the same guy!
>

> I saw him on the Today Show this morning when I flipped on the set --
> he seemed like he was going for the Spielberg look. I didn't stick
> around for the whole interview; I was itching to watch my tape of
> Battlebots from last night. I really like the killsaws that come up
> from the floor. I'd enjoy seeing something similar happen to the
> computers of a few people who've e-mailed me recently.
>

> -- Steve Lopez
>

We've got 2 battling robots shows in the midwesy now, one is on public
television from out of Britain, and one is from the west side of the
USA, it's on a cable chanel, and Mongo like this one better. All bots
being built in Britland seem to get powered by wheel chair motors, but
we got some inventive bot building happening in the USA.

pulgao

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/5/00
to
On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:55:16 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:


>We've got 2 battling robots shows in the midwesy now, one is on public
>television from out of Britain, and one is from the west side of the
>USA, it's on a cable chanel, and Mongo like this one better. All bots
>being built in Britland seem to get powered by wheel chair motors, but
>we got some inventive bot building happening in the USA.

The one I taped is on Comedy Central and features Bill Nye ("the
Science Guy") as a commentator. Neat stuff -- at first I wasn't sure
what to expect, but I ended up delighted by it. Very fun show.

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 5, 2000, 8:40:50 PM10/5/00
to
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:39:36 -0400, "Paul Morphy"
<paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:

>
>The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
>news:2jgnts0ksqbvnle22...@4ax.com...
>

>> Thanks to a bad directions from you and a couple hours fiddling, I
>> figured it out just fine.
>>

>> You see, when you give directions, they need to be precise. None of
>> this, well, it looks about like that, etc.
>

>What does this look like to you, 24/7 Tech Support?

Well, no. It looks to me like a good place to get plenty of fucked up
advice.

Does that answer your question?


Junior

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 12:39:32 AM10/6/00
to
In article <39dced52.12629517@localhost>,

baays...@intrepid.net (pulgao) wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:55:16 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >We've got 2 battling robots shows in the midwesy now, one is on
public
> >television from out of Britain, and one is from the west side of the
> >USA, it's on a cable chanel, and Mongo like this one better. All
bots
> >being built in Britland seem to get powered by wheel chair motors,
but
> >we got some inventive bot building happening in the USA.
>
> The one I taped is on Comedy Central and features Bill Nye ("the
> Science Guy") as a commentator. Neat stuff -- at first I wasn't sure
> what to expect, but I ended up delighted by it. Very fun show.
>
> -- Steve Lopez
>

Bill Nye does a killer science show! I wish he was around when I was a
kid.

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 12:50:23 AM10/6/00
to
In article <8rg7og$fr0$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>,

"Paul Morphy" <paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
> PMG <av...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> news:39DB7C02...@mediaone.net...
> >
> >
> > Paul Morphy wrote:
> > >
> > > <mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > > news:8re68l$vit$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> > > >
> > > > If you're sitting on top of a freight train, and you see a
tunnel
> > > > approaching ahead, just for you information, that's a pretty
good
> > > > indication that you should duck.
> > > >
> > > > I just thought I should mention that since sometimes there isn't
a
> sign
> > > > _telling_ you to duck.
> > >
> > > Or "fish."
> > >
> > > http://www.examiner.com/000830/0830fish.html
> > >
> > > If your taste runs along those lines, there are more links to such
at:
> > > http://www.weirdweb.20m.com/
> >
> > Good stuff. In Wisconsin, the number 1 cause of drowning is
fisherman
> > standing up and peeing over the side of the boat. They know this is
> > what happened because when they find the flatlanders in the water,
their
> > zipper is usually down.
>
> Geez, and the fish have to live in that water. I had a great story
about a
> guy who was returning from a sports event in a bus. He stuck his head
out
> the skylight to catch some fresh air and was decapitated. But I
couldn't
> find the link. The fish story was the best I could do. Somehow I knew
you'd
> like it. The only thing that would have improved it for you would have
been
> if the head had been found in a hammerhead shark.
>
>

Mongo says, this thread *now* belongs in .misc where people like to talk
about fishing, or was that fischer, Mongo not remember, no different,
people being decapitated and having their heads eaten by fish, or
trollers pissing into the water talking about Booby Fischer.

Mongo

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 1:53:04 AM10/6/00
to

<mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8rjlme$fqe$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

Any thread with Fischer in it is certainly appropriate for trolling....

>
> Mongo

You can say that again.
>
> Mongo


Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/6/00
to

The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
news:7r7qtsg3vsh31cd99...@4ax.com...

Admirably. You get what you pay for.

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/6/00
to
In article <8rkfgl$8rh$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>,

"Paul Morphy" <paul_m...@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
> The Drunken Lord <Jun...@jrfjowdg.org> wrote in message
> news:7r7qtsg3vsh31cd99...@4ax.com...
> Admirably. You get what you pay for.
>
>

Ok, I was wondering why it costs so much. I knew I should have bought
stocks in that Usenet company!

It's too bad "The Drunken Lord" had to be lead down his drunken road to
ruin by all the fucked up advice he received at r.g.c.c. Oh well, no
loss. Maybe he'll stick around so he can get batted around like a dead
mouse, that would be cool.

Paul Morphy

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/6/00
to

<mongo_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8rl8kc$n7f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> It's too bad "The Drunken Lord" had to be lead down his drunken road to
> ruin by all the fucked up advice he received at r.g.c.c. Oh well, no
> loss. Maybe he'll stick around so he can get batted around like a dead
> mouse, that would be cool.

Too bad TDL didn't know that tipping is optional but highly recommended.

The Drunken Lord

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 8:54:09 PM10/6/00
to
On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:19:43 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:

>Ok, I was wondering why it costs so much. I knew I should have bought
>stocks in that Usenet company!
>

>It's too bad "The Drunken Lord" had to be lead down his drunken road to
>ruin by all the fucked up advice he received at r.g.c.c. Oh well, no
>loss. Maybe he'll stick around so he can get batted around like a dead
>mouse, that would be cool.

Actually, I figured it out on my own. It would have taken somebody a
couple minutes to give out good directions, but nobody here was
capable of it--though I did see that since then, Mogens has told it
straight.


Junior

Mogens Chr. Larsen

unread,
Oct 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/7/00
to
> Actually, I figured it out on my own. It would have taken somebody a
> couple minutes to give out good directions, but nobody here was
> capable of it--though I did see that since then, Mogens has told it
> straight.

No, I haven't. I've only explained WinBoard install since then without
elaborating on the CB GUI at all.

If you asked about WinBoard then I must have missed it.

Further info can be found on my website dedicated to WinBoard info:

http://home1.stofanet.dk/moq/WinBoard.htm

Mogens.


michael adams

unread,
Oct 7, 2000, 1:45:23 PM10/7/00
to
Mogens Chr. Larsen wrote:
>
> > Actually, I figured it out on my own. It would have taken somebody a
> > couple minutes to give out good directions, but nobody here was
> > capable of it--though I did see that since then, Mogens has told it
> > straight.
>
> No, I haven't. I've only explained WinBoard install since then without
> elaborating on the CB GUI at all.
>
> If you asked about WinBoard then I must have missed it.
>
> Further info can be found on my website dedicated to WinBoard info:
>
> http://home1.stofanet.dk/moq/WinBoard.htm
>
> Mogens.
How are things in Denmark?,Moggies you old son,doing well with the
no-euro vote uh? everything ok with the 'old' crone?.. do tell.

David M. Hughes

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
>>
>
>We've got 2 battling robots shows in the midwesy now, one is on public
>television from out of Britain, and one is from the west side of the
>USA, it's on a cable chanel, and Mongo like this one better. All bots
>being built in Britland seem to get powered by wheel chair motors, but
>we got some inventive bot building happening in the USA.
>

Would that be "Robot Wars" by any chance? We've just started seeing the
fourth series over here in the UK...Presented by Craig Charles from Red
Dwarf {Amongst other shows...}

Would be nice to see how something like Mortis from RW coped with your
bots in the US.

--
Dave

Join the search for Extra-Terrestrial life with SETI at home:
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

mongo_...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
In article <vFJX6EA+...@palimpsest.demon.co.uk>,

"David M. Hughes" <Da...@SPAMOFFpalimpsest.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >We've got 2 battling robots shows in the midwesy now, one is on
public
> >television from out of Britain, and one is from the west side of the
> >USA, it's on a cable chanel, and Mongo like this one better. All
bots
> >being built in Britland seem to get powered by wheel chair motors,
but
> >we got some inventive bot building happening in the USA.
> >
>
> Would that be "Robot Wars" by any chance? We've just started seeing
the
> fourth series over here in the UK...Presented by Craig Charles from
Red
> Dwarf {Amongst other shows...}
>
> Would be nice to see how something like Mortis from RW coped with your
> bots in the US.
>
> --
> Dave
>

Mongo's not sure what the names are, but it's probably Robot Wars. For
the USA version, I'm sure base on the Brit version, see pulgao's post,
the USA version is on Comedy Central, I don't remember what night. I
think it's done somewhere in California. The Brit version, in the
Chicago area is shown Sunday at 10:00PM on public telecaster.

pulgao

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 10:20:57 PM10/8/00
to
On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 17:59:06 GMT, mongo_...@my-deja.com wrote:

>For
>the USA version, I'm sure base on the Brit version, see pulgao's post,
>the USA version is on Comedy Central, I don't remember what night.

Wed. night, 10:30 PM Eastern.

D0,5-1

unread,
Oct 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/11/00
to
If you can't get it work with the Winboard with the WinBoard.ini lines,
that's no wonder, almost no instructions about it never worked with me, nor
any shortcut sample lines, so I used some sane peoples sample line
structure, the line: D:\Crafty\winboard.exe -cp -fcp "D:\Crafty\Little
Goliath\goliath 2000\LG2000V29a" /scp "D:\Crafty\Little Goliath\goliath
2000\LG2000V29a" You of course use your own Path. And if the Book etc.
doesn't work (with Little Goliath) that's nothing new either.

"Mogens Chr. Larsen" <m...@mail1.stofanet.dk> kirjoitti viestissä
news:PlHB5.265$7g4....@news101.telia.com...
>
> Chris Brennen <cbre...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> skrev i en
> nyhedsmeddelelse:39d7...@news.jakinternet.co.uk...
> > Hi all,
> > Sory for my ignorence in this field, but I'm new to computer chess. How
> do
> > I install / use Little Goliath 2000? Installing Deep Trouble and others
> was
> > fairly simple, but this is something different.
>
> Actually it's just as easy, at least in principle. Just go to
>
> http://www.borgstaedt.de/
>
> and download LG2000 v2.9a + large opening book. Place them in the same
> directory and add the usual type of WinBoard.ini lines, eg.
>
> \"LG2000v29a\" /fd=c:\\Path
> \"LG2000v29a\" /sd=c:\\Path
>
> Just remember to check Goliath.ini for wrong settings. The important part
> should look something like this:
>
> HASHSIZE [2 - 384 MB]=32
> COMBINATION [ON or OFF]=OFF
> CHESS KNOWLEDGE [ON or OFF]=ON
> -----------------------------
> BOOK [ON or OFF]=ON
> LEARNING [ON or OFF]=ON
> LOG-FILE [ON or OFF]=OFF
> ..
> ..
> and so on...
>
> Of course less ram for hash might be necessary.
>
> Best wishes...
> Mogens
>

D0,5-1

unread,
Oct 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/11/00
to
You put that shortcut line to the shortcut line. Not to the .ini

"D0,5-1" <z...@rro.com> kirjoitti viestissä
news:EW2F5.62$4T....@uutiset.nic.fi...

0 new messages