WMCCC Jakarta
Chris Whittington
Just got the list of applicants for Jakarta WMCCC in October.
Surprise:
Only three commercial applicants. Chess System Tal, Fritz, Virtual Chess.
Is this because of the riots/cost/time/inconvenience of getting
there, or are other commercial programs going to apply late ?
If the level of commercial programs stays this low, I think I'll
think twice about the $1000 entry fee, plus the $3000 air fare, plus
the $1000 - $2000 expenses required, plus the difficulty of taking
a PPro 200 out by air.
Are other programs going to enter or is Jakarta just going to be
for the amateurs (who get free entry and free air tickets) ?
Ed Schroder ?
Mark Uniacke ?
Marty Hirsch ?
Richard Lang ?
Best regards,
Chris Whittington
Ed Schroder
Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Just got the list of applicants for Jakarta WMCCC in October.
>
>Surprise:
>
>Only three commercial applicants. Chess System Tal, Fritz, Virtual Chess.
>
>Is this because of the riots/cost/time/inconvenience of getting
>there, or are other commercial programs going to apply late ?
>
>If the level of commercial programs stays this low, I think I'll
>think twice about the $1000 entry fee, plus the $3000 air fare, plus
>the $1000 - $2000 expenses required, plus the difficulty of taking
>a PPro 200 out by air.
>
>Are other programs going to enter or is Jakarta just going to be
>for the amateurs (who get free entry and free air tickets) ?
>
>Ed Schroder ?
From a reliable source I heard that Ed has lost interest.
Guess who?
Don Fong
In article <4uaahf$d...@news.xs4all.nl>,
Ed Schroder <rebc...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Just got the list of applicants for Jakarta WMCCC in October.
>>
>>Surprise:
>>
>>Only three commercial applicants. Chess System Tal, Fritz, Virtual Chess.
>>
>>Is this because of the riots/cost/time/inconvenience of getting
>>there, or are other commercial programs going to apply late ?
or could it be they don't want to visit a dictatorship which is
actively carrying out one of the worst genocides in modern history?
(a widely accepted figure is that appx 1/3 of the east timorese
population has been killed.)
i just heard four British women were *acquitted* on charges
stemming from their raid on a british aerospace factory to disable
a jet fighter that had been sold to indonesia. their defense was
that their action was justified to prevent genocide.
i don't know the actual reason(s) for the dearth of commercial
entrants, but there are certainly good reasons for freedom-loving
people to stay away.
how was Jakarta chosen as the site for this event anyway?
IMHO this is on a par with FIDE's Baghdad fiasco.
[...]
>From a reliable source I heard that Ed has lost interest.
a smart guy, that Ed. (:-)
--
--- don fong ``i still want the peace dividend''
--
brucemo
Don Fong wrote:
>
> In article <4uaahf$d...@news.xs4all.nl>,
> Ed Schroder <rebc...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>Just got the list of applicants for Jakarta WMCCC in October.
> >>
> >>Surprise:
> >>
> >>Only three commercial applicants. Chess System Tal, Fritz, Virtual Chess.
> >>
> >>Is this because of the riots/cost/time/inconvenience of getting
> >>there, or are other commercial programs going to apply late ?
>
> or could it be they don't want to visit a dictatorship which is
> actively carrying out one of the worst genocides in modern history?
> (a widely accepted figure is that appx 1/3 of the east timorese
> population has been killed.)
Two guesses:
1) The plane ticket from Europe to Indonesia is not going to be cheap for any of the
professionals.
2) The US State Department says don't go there.
I'm planning to go.
bruce
Pitters
In Article <83941066...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>, Chris Whittington
<chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Just got the list of applicants for Jakarta WMCCC in October.
>
>Surprise:
>
>Only three commercial applicants. Chess System Tal, Fritz, Virtual Chess.
>
>Is this because of the riots/cost/time/inconvenience of getting
>there, or are other commercial programs going to apply late ?
>
>If the level of commercial programs stays this low, I think I'll
>think twice about the $1000 entry fee, plus the $3000 air fare, plus
>the $1000 - $2000 expenses required, plus the difficulty of taking
>a PPro 200 out by air.
>
>Are other programs going to enter or is Jakarta just going to be
>for the amateurs (who get free entry and free air tickets) ?
>
>Ed Schroder ?
>
>Mark Uniacke ?
>
>Marty Hirsch ?
>
>Richard Lang ?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Chris Whittington >
The administration of Indonesia has been conducting a brutal campaign of
genocide and pillage against the independent colony of East Timor since
the seventies. Don`t worry about it, play computerchess !
Marty Hirsch told me, that he didn`t defend his title at this place ! Ed
Schroeder also didn`t start there. This event has no value!!!!! But these
guys from the ICCA get some nice holidays in the far east, naturally payed
by their members !!
Have fun
-Peter Schreiner
Chris Whittington
Ed Schroder <rebc...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Just got the list of applicants for Jakarta WMCCC in October.
> >
> >Surprise:
> >
> >Only three commercial applicants. Chess System Tal, Fritz, Virtual Chess.
> >
> >Is this because of the riots/cost/time/inconvenience of getting
> >there, or are other commercial programs going to apply late ?
> >
> >If the level of commercial programs stays this low, I think I'll
> >think twice about the $1000 entry fee, plus the $3000 air fare, plus
> >the $1000 - $2000 expenses required, plus the difficulty of taking
> >a PPro 200 out by air.
> >
> >Are other programs going to enter or is Jakarta just going to be
> >for the amateurs (who get free entry and free air tickets) ?
> >
> >Ed Schroder ?
>
>
> >Mark Uniacke ?
> >
> >Marty Hirsch ?
> >
> >Richard Lang ?
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Chris Whittington
>
>
This is a summary of entries for the WMCCC in Jakarta
for October 1996.
Aplogies for the upper case, its how the document came.
SUMMARY OF ENTRIES RECEIVED AS OF AUGUST 3rd:
-------------------------------------------
NOTE THAT ALL THE PROGRAMS WHICH HAVE ENTERED
ARE BEING ACCEPTED FOR PARTICIPATION, BUT DUE TO
A LIMITATION ON THE NUMBER OF FREE AIR TICKETS
AVAILABLE ONLY 21 OF THE AMATEUR PROGRAMS ARE
BEING OFFERED FREE TICKETS.
PROFESSIONALS (no free tickets)
-----------------------------------
CHESS SYSTEM TAL
Chris Whittington (England)
FRITZ
Frans Morsch (Holland), Mathias Feist & Matthias Wullenweber
(Germany)
VIRTUAL CHESS 2
Marc-Francois Baudot & Jean-Christophe Weill (France)
==============================================================================================
AMATEUR PROGRAMS OFFERED FREE TICKETS
-------------------------------------
ARTHUR
Walter Ravenek (Holland)
BREAKTHROUGH II
Werner Koch (Germany)
CENTAUR
Victor Vikhrev & Alexei Manjakhin (Russia)
COMET
Ulrich Turke (Germany)
CRAFTY
Bob Hyatt, Mike Byrne & Bert Gower (USA)
DARK THOUGHT
Peter Gillgasch, Markus Gille & Ernst Heinze (Germany)
[Gillgasch is no longer a member of this team.]
DIOGENES 2.0
Jorg Burwitz & Karsten Bauermeister (Germany)
EUGEN-7
Eugenio Jimenez (Spain)
FERRET
Bruce Moreland (USA)
FRANCESCA
Tom King (England)
GANDALF X
Steen Surballe & Dan Wulff (Denmark)
HEUREKA
Gerold Fischer (Germany)
ISICHESS 2.5
Gerd Isenberg (Germany)
JUNIOR
Amir Ban & Shay Bushinsky (Israel)
NIMZO-3
Chrilly Donninger & A.Kurp (Austria)
PATZER
Roland Pfister (Germany)
SCHACH 3
Matthias Engelbach (Germany)
SHREDDER
Stefan Meyer-Kahlen (Germany)
THE TURK
Yngvi Bjornsson & Andreas Junghanns (Canada)
XXXX 2.0
Martin Zentner (Germany)
ZEUS 3.1
Gerardo Castano (Spain)
AMATEUR PROGRAMS ON THE RESERVE LIST FOR FREE
TICKETS (if any of the above cancel)
NIGHTMARE
Dr. Reinhold Gellner & Gaby von Rekowski (Germany)
PANDIX
Gyula & Szusza Horvath (Hungary)
INITIATIVE
Ren Wu (USA)
INTERCHESS
Michael Borgstadt & Spomenka Grabusic (Germany)
ANANSE
Walter Bannerman (Switzerland)
WOODPUSHER
John Hamlen (England)
NESTPRO VII.69
Bruno Bras & Michel Descloitre (France)
GULLYDECKEL
Martin Borriss (Germany)
PROSPERO CHESS
Mike Oakes (England)
CHESS DEMON
Peter Gillgasch (Germany)
***** End of listing *****
As far as I know Rebel (Ed Scroder), Mchess (Hirsch) and
Hiarcs (Uniacke) are not participating. Although my knowledge
of the latter two programs is based on rumour and may be random.
Genius (Richard Lang) had not applied by the deadline, and presumably
won't be attending.
ChessMaster hasn't applied by the deadine either.
I wonder (a) are any people going to pull out because of the
political situation, and (b) are any applications still going
to come in from the above commercial programs ?
Chris Whittington
Ed Schroder
As far as I know the following programs are commercial too:
GANDALF X
Steen Surballe & Dan Wulff (Denmark)
ISICHESS 2.5
Gerd Isenberg (Germany)
JUNIOR
Amir Ban & Shay Bushinsky (Israel)
NIMZO-3
Chrilly Donninger & A.Kurp (Austria)
I am not (completely) sure about Gandalf and Junior.
I am sure about Nimzo and Isichess.
How about it ICCA?
- Ed Schroder -
SYSOP
CW> Aplogies for the upper case, its how the document came.
CW> SUMMARY OF ENTRIES RECEIVED AS OF AUGUST 3rd:
> -------------------------------------------
CW> NOTE THAT ALL THE PROGRAMS WHICH HAVE ENTERED
> ARE BEING ACCEPTED FOR PARTICIPATION, BUT DUE TO
> A LIMITATION ON THE NUMBER OF FREE AIR TICKETS
> AVAILABLE ONLY 21 OF THE AMATEUR PROGRAMS ARE
> BEING OFFERED FREE TICKETS.
CW> PROFESSIONALS (no free tickets)
> -----------------------------------
CW> CHESS SYSTEM TAL
> Chris Whittington (England)
CW> FRITZ
> Frans Morsch (Holland), Mathias Feist & Matthias Wullenweber
> (Germany)
CW> VIRTUAL CHESS 2
> Marc-Francois Baudot & Jean-Christophe Weill (France)
CW> ===============================================================================
> ===============
CW> AMATEUR PROGRAMS OFFERED FREE TICKETS
> -------------------------------------
CW> NIMZO-3
> Chrilly Donninger & A.Kurp (Austria)
It seems NIMZO 3 is a "commercial" program, as showed recently in
several rec.games.chess posts. Maybe, the free ticket needs to be
passed to another programmer..
Regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Roberto Gabriel Alvarez e-mail: rob...@alvarez.satlink.net
CAISSA BBS -Ajedrez para Todos el...@giga.com.ar
Villa Ballester - Bs.As. -ARGENTINA BBS: (54) (1) 847-1521 14400 8,N,1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
* SPEED 2.00 #2722 * Jugar ajedrez en zona norte? Llama al 768-0462 !!
Chris Whittington
rob...@alvarez.satlink.net (SYSOP) wrote:
>
> CW> Aplogies for the upper case, its how the document came.
>
> CW> SUMMARY OF ENTRIES RECEIVED AS OF AUGUST 3rd:
> > -------------------------------------------
>
> CW> NOTE THAT ALL THE PROGRAMS WHICH HAVE ENTERED
> > ARE BEING ACCEPTED FOR PARTICIPATION, BUT DUE TO
> > A LIMITATION ON THE NUMBER OF FREE AIR TICKETS
> > AVAILABLE ONLY 21 OF THE AMATEUR PROGRAMS ARE
> > BEING OFFERED FREE TICKETS.
>
> > -----------------------------------
>
> CW> CHESS SYSTEM TAL
> > Chris Whittington (England)
>
> CW> FRITZ
> > Frans Morsch (Holland), Mathias Feist & Matthias Wullenweber
> > (Germany)
>
> > Marc-Francois Baudot & Jean-Christophe Weill (France)
>
>
> > ===============
>
>
> CW> AMATEUR PROGRAMS OFFERED FREE TICKETS
> > -------------------------------------
>
> CW> NIMZO-3
>
> several rec.games.chess posts. Maybe, the free ticket needs to be
> passed to another programmer..
>
Danger can-of-worms being opened. Question of amateur/commercial
and the quite incredible decisions made never cease to amaze me.
You might also ask why Hiarcs has always been accepted as an amateur
program - it sold in a four-colour box, and shipped in Germany
and England amongst others in reasonable quantities.
Look in any Schach and Computer Speile to see the advertisements.
BTW Nimzo is being heavily advertised right now.
But in fairness to the Nimzo programmer, he has only just launched this
program, he is only a new commercial.
I think some of us who have always had to pay for ICCA events
have resented it somewhat with the arbitary 'amateur/pro' decisions; the
fact that some commercial programmers are hardly well off from chess,
yet have to pay $1000 + expenses of being away for a week;
the fact that the ICCA officials live rather well on this money at
the tournaments, with expenses, freebies etc, and the series of
contentious decisions and mind-changes that emerge every time..
And, it would be interesting how much their negotiator(s) get
for arranging the sponsorship, the later being serious money.
Finally, you may be amused to know that I applied for amateur status
under the ICCA rule 'less than 25% of income from chess = amateur".
Well I told them my income from chess last year was 13.1% of my
total income, and could I be an amateur please.
Their response: none. Just the tournament blurb showing Chess
System Tal as a commercial entry.
Why (a) they don't stick to their own rules, and (b) they don't
have the courtesy to reply at all, I don't understand.
Chris Whittington
Don Fong
In article <8C6428F.0019...@alvarez.satlink.net>,
SYSOP <rob...@alvarez.satlink.net> wrote:
>It seems NIMZO 3 is a "commercial" program, as showed recently in
>several rec.games.chess posts. Maybe, the free ticket needs to be
>passed to another programmer..
sheesh, the competition is scheduled to be held in a country
run by a man who makes Saddam Hussein look like mr nice guy,
and the big controversy here is over who gets free tickets?
anyone planning to go, please consider the following (excerpt).
|/** reg.easttimor: 334.0 **/
|** Topic: IPS: Ploughshares women walk free **
|** Written 12:17 AM Jul 31, 1996 by cscheiner in cdp:reg.easttimor **
|From: Charles Scheiner <csch...@igc.apc.org>
|
|BRITAIN-INDONESIA: Women Who Wrecked Jet In Timor Protest Walk Free
|
|By IPS Correspondents
|LONDON, Jul 31 (IPS) - A British jury has acquitted three women who broke
|into an aircraft plant and wrecked a Hawk jet destined for the Indonesian
|air force.
[...]
|In their defence they cited the Nuremberg prosecution of Nazi war criminals,
|the 1969 Genocide Act and provisions against aiding and abetting murder in the
|1861 Offences Against the Persons Act. They were using reasonable force to
|prevent a crime, they told the court.
|
|In the video, later seen by the jury, the women filmed themselves signing a
|declaration saying ''they were acting to prevent genocide in a country where
|a third of the population has been murdered.''
[...]
|The verdict came as Indonesia was restoring calm after a weekend of
|anti-government protests in the capital Jakarta. The official Antara news
|agency quoted Jakarta military commander Major-General Sutiyoso as saying
|the military would not tolerate any more disturbances and that he had
|ordered his troops to open fire on anyone trying to disturb law and order.
|
|The same day, in London, the international human rights group Amnesty
|International strongly condemned the Indonesian security forces for detaining
|opposition members during the riots and demanded a halt to arbitrary arrests.
IMHO this locale should be boycotted, and if the WMCCC is not
moved, then the WMCCC should be boycotted also. where is the moral
outrage that we saw when FIDE announced its plan to hold its chp
in Baghdad?
brucemo
SYSOP wrote:
> It seems NIMZO 3 is a "commercial" program, as showed recently in
> several rec.games.chess posts. Maybe, the free ticket needs to be
> passed to another programmer..
There are several of them that do this.
Hiarcs is "amateur". Virtua Chess tried to become amateur after the
figured out that they might be able to become amateur world champions
last year (they were a half point behind MChess and Genius, but were
tied with two amateur programs).
bruce
Dan Thies
>
>Danger can-of-worms being opened. Question of amateur/commercial
>and the quite incredible decisions made never cease to amaze me.
Indeed.
>I think some of us who have always had to pay for ICCA events
>have resented it somewhat with the arbitary 'amateur/pro' decisions; the
>fact that some commercial programmers are hardly well off from chess,
>yet have to pay $1000 + expenses of being away for a week;
>the fact that the ICCA officials live rather well on this money at
>the tournaments, with expenses, freebies etc, and the series of
>contentious decisions and mind-changes that emerge every time..
>
>And, it would be interesting how much their negotiator(s) get
>for arranging the sponsorship, the later being serious money.
I can't imagine there are too many *programmers* who have gotten
wealthy, if any.
>Finally, you may be amused to know that I applied for amateur status
>under the ICCA rule 'less than 25% of income from chess = amateur".
>Well I told them my income from chess last year was 13.1% of my
>total income, and could I be an amateur please.
>Their response: none. Just the tournament blurb showing Chess
>System Tal as a commercial entry.
It's possible that the utter lack of commercial program entries led to
your "upgrade" to pro status. Maybe you need to be taking a loss on
it to be seen as an amateur any more.
>Why (a) they don't stick to their own rules, and (b) they don't
>have the courtesy to reply at all, I don't understand.
It may be that you'll discover something about that in Jakarta.
Good luck with it, I hope you (and your software) give those
brute-force beasts a good thrashing.
Dan
Tom Kerrigan
This sounds pretty horrible. I'm not attending for logistical reasons, but I
know a few people who wanted to go in my place. I told them I won't let them
go for a number of reasons, including this. I realize that Stobor is still
less than a year old, but I know most of the people who will attend, so I'm
hoping the absence of my program will be noticed.
Hum... I've never sold Stobor, and only a handful of people have seen it.
Fewer actually have copies. I wonder if ICCA would have entered me as a
professional? :)
Cheers,
Tom
P.S. Sorry about type-os. Broken thumb. :(
Don Fong (df...@cse.ucsc.edu) wrote:
: In article <8C6428F.0019...@alvarez.satlink.net>,
: SYSOP <rob...@alvarez.satlink.net> wrote:
: >It seems NIMZO 3 is a "commercial" program, as showed recently in
: >several rec.games.chess posts. Maybe, the free ticket needs to be
: >passed to another programmer..
: sheesh, the competition is scheduled to be held in a country
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Tom Kerrigan kerr...@frii.com O-
If all be true that I do think,
There be Five Reasons why one should Drink;
Good friends, good wine, or being dry,
Or lest we should be by-and-by,
Or any other reason why.
Don Fong
In article <4v06mh$6...@europa.frii.com>,
Tom Kerrigan <kerr...@frii.com> wrote:
>This sounds pretty horrible. I'm not attending for logistical reasons, but I
>know a few people who wanted to go in my place. I told them I won't let them
>go for a number of reasons, including this.
good! according to what Chris Whittington posted, it sounds like
there will be a lot of absences. IMHO the event is a travesty. perhaps
i am naive, but i would have expected that even more contestants would
object to the venue. i am surprised that so many have signed up.
i can't help but contrast this with the outcry when FIDE
announced its championship would be held in Baghdad. this is just
as stupid, although i guess the WMCCC could be considered a "smaller"
event than the FIDE WC.
Chris Whittington
brucemo <bru...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
> SYSOP wrote:
>
> > It seems NIMZO 3 is a "commercial" program, as showed recently in
> > several rec.games.chess posts. Maybe, the free ticket needs to be
> > passed to another programmer..
>
>
> Hiarcs is "amateur". Virtua Chess tried to become amateur after the
> figured out that they might be able to become amateur world champions
> last year (they were a half point behind MChess and Genius, but were
> tied with two amateur programs).
>
> bruce
Are you going ?
Chris Whittington
brucemo
Yes. I am concerned about the State Department advisory against going
though.
bruce
Martin Zentner
brucemo wrote:
>
> Chris Whittington wrote:
> >
> > Are you going ?
> >
> > Chris Whittington
>
> Yes. I am concerned about the State Department advisory against going
> though.
>
> bruce
Hi Bruce !
Stefan and I will go to Jakarta as well. So what could possibly happen
worse besides meeting us again ?! :-)
OK, agreed, the local beer might not be the same quality as in
Paderborn.
Looking forward
-Martin
Don Fong
In article <322352...@pike.phil.uni-passau.de>,
Martin Zentner <zen...@pike.phil.uni-passau.de> wrote:
>Hi Bruce !
>
>Stefan and I will go to Jakarta as well. So what could possibly happen
>worse besides meeting us again ?! :-)
well, you could get arrested and tortured or shot, just like the
natives. but if you're lucky, you might only see it happen to other
people. just a thought.
|From: Ray Mitchell <RMITCHEL%AI...@amnesty.org.uk>
|Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
|Subject: AI: Indonesia bulletin
|Date: 16 Aug 1996 20:07:16 GMT
|
|+------------------------------------------------------+
|+ AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL URGENT ACTION BULLETIN +
|+ Electronic distribution authorised +
|+ This bulletin expires: 25 September 1996. +
|+------------------------------------------------------+
[...]
|INDONESIA Hendrik Dikson Sirait, aged 24, student activist
|
|new arrests: Dr Tjiptaning, medical doctor
| Abadi Halawa, student
| Ganda Manurung, student
| Freddy Manurung, student
| Mangasi, student
| Simson Simanjuntak, student
| Ronald Naibaho, student
| Parlindungan Sibuea
|
|released: Wahyu Widyanarko
|
|Amnesty International's fears for the safety of all those still
|detained since the security forces raided the office of the
|Indonesian Democratic Party (PDI) on 27 July 1996 (see original
|UA) have been heightened by reports that one of the detainees,
|Hendrik Dikson Sirait, has been severely tortured and is being
|denied medical treatment.
|
|It has now been confirmed that Hendrik Dikson Sirait, a member
|of the student activist organization, Pijar, who was arrested on
|1 August 1996 (see original UA) is being held at Polda, the
|district police headquarters in Jakarta. His family and lawyers
|have been able to visit him once. He has been badly tortured
|while in custody including being burnt with cigarettes, given
|electric shocks and beaten. He may be suffering from head
|injuries. According to Amnesty International's information
|Hendrik Dikson Sirait has not received any medical treatment for
|his injuries.
|
|Amnesty Interantional has learned of further arrests. A doctor,
|Doctor Tjiptaning, who had helped to treat the wounded after the
|security forces raided the PDI office was arrested by the
|military on 14 August. There has been no information on his
|whereabouts and it is assumed that he does not have access to
|lawyers, placing him at serious risk of ill-treatment or torture.
[...]
Chris Whittington
df...@cse.ucsc.edu (Don Fong) wrote:
>
> In article <322352...@pike.phil.uni-passau.de>,
> Martin Zentner <zen...@pike.phil.uni-passau.de> wrote:
> >Hi Bruce !
> >
> >Stefan and I will go to Jakarta as well. So what could possibly happen
> >worse besides meeting us again ?! :-)
>
> well, you could get arrested and tortured or shot, just like the
> natives. but if you're lucky, you might only see it happen to other
> people. just a thought.
Ok, I concede you have a strong point.
Your purpose is presumably to invite participants to make
a political stand and withdraw.
My view on this is that token withdrawals would be meaningless, but,
if you were able to persuade enough people to make a stand, then I'ld
join in.
Something like if the commercial entries and the top amateurs
withdrew, then I'ld withdraw too.
Chris Whittington
Don Fong
In article <84123587...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>df...@cse.ucsc.edu (Don Fong) wrote:
>> well, you could get arrested and tortured or shot, just like the
>> natives. but if you're lucky, you might only see it happen to other
>> people. just a thought.
>
>Ok, I concede you have a strong point.
>
>Your purpose is presumably to invite participants to make
>a political stand and withdraw.
OK since you asked: yes i'd like the participants to withdraw,
and the organizers to cancel. i think it could happen if enough
of the leading programmers refused to participate... after all,
any "victory" won in the absence of the top contenders would be a sham.
popular outcry caused FIDE to drop its Baghdad plan, and IMHO this
WMCCC in Jakarta is just as outrageous.
>My view on this is that token withdrawals would be meaningless, but,
>if you were able to persuade enough people to make a stand, then I'ld
>join in.
interesting. as i recall, you're the one who started this thread
by noting the absence of some prominent players. i inferred that a
fair number of people were quietly "voting with their feet". (has
that situation changed?)
>Something like if the commercial entries and the top amateurs
>withdrew, then I'ld withdraw too.
i believe Ed Schroder already said he's not going, although i
don't know why. Tom Kerrigan said he's not going, for other reasons.
i suspect a number of chess programmers feel uneasy about the venue,
but don't want to rock the boat, or embarrass their colleagues, or
whatever. but this is serious. remember the British women who
smashed the jet. that was an extreme action, for which they could
have been locked up for years. instead, the jury agreed that their
action was justified in order to prevent genocide (in accord with the
Nuremburg principles). i think that says a lot.
is any chess programmer willing to publicly take a stand for human
rights? or for common sense? Indonesia is not exactly a vacation
paradise at the moment! they're arresting people and shooting people.
speak up!
you don't have to smash a jet or risk arrest. just lift a finger
or two. (oh, and maybe forgo a free plane ride. but i don't believe
chess programmers are so morally impaired that they can be bought
for the price of a plane ticket.)
note below, the 2 human rights groups are calling not only for
a ban on arms sales, but a suspension of "trade delegations and
state visits".
|/** reg.easttimor: 363.0 **/
|** Topic: HR groups call for arms ban **
|** Written 8:23 AM Aug 21, 1996 by fbp in cdp:reg.easttimor **
|From: "John M. Miller" <f...@igc.apc.org>
|
|Groups Call For Arms Ban
|Sunday, August 18, 1996 8:00 pm EDT
|
|JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- Two U.S. human rights groups
|are calling for a ban on arms sales and state visits to Indonesia
|to protest a government crackdown on activists who say they are
|fighting for democracy.
|
|President Suharto is ``whipping up an imaginary Red scare'' by
|accusing the activists of being communists, and has launched an
|``assault'' on freedom of expression and association, said a
|summary of a report by the Washington-based Robert F.
|Kennedy Memorial Center for Human Rights and the New
|York-based Human Rights Watch-Asia.
|
|The full report is scheduled to be released Monday. Indonesian
|government offices were closed over the weekend, and a
|government response could not be immediately obtained.
|
|The joint report asks for an international ban on arms sales and
|suspension of trade delegations and state visits to Indonesia.
|
|It also asks Indonesia to unconditionally release all those
|arrested for ``peaceful expression of their views'' during a
|political rally last month that led to some of the worst rioting in
|decades.
|
|The human rights report asks the governments of donor countries
|to pressure Indonesia to invite a United Nations group on
|arbitrary detention to visit.
|
|** End of text from cdp:reg.easttimor **
Chris Whittington
df...@cse.ucsc.edu (Don Fong) wrote:
>
> In article <84123587...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >df...@cse.ucsc.edu (Don Fong) wrote:
> >> well, you could get arrested and tortured or shot, just like the
> >> natives. but if you're lucky, you might only see it happen to other
> >> people. just a thought.
> >
> >Ok, I concede you have a strong point.
> >
> >Your purpose is presumably to invite participants to make
> >a political stand and withdraw.
>
> OK since you asked: yes i'd like the participants to withdraw,
> and the organizers to cancel. i think it could happen if enough
> of the leading programmers refused to participate... after all,
> any "victory" won in the absence of the top contenders would be a sham.
> popular outcry caused FIDE to drop its Baghdad plan, and IMHO this
> WMCCC in Jakarta is just as outrageous.
>
> >My view on this is that token withdrawals would be meaningless, but,
> >if you were able to persuade enough people to make a stand, then I'ld
> >join in.
>
> interesting. as i recall, you're the one who started this thread
> by noting the absence of some prominent players. i inferred that a
> fair number of people were quietly "voting with their feet". (has
> that situation changed?)
>
Marty Hirsch (Mchess) is now a participant. Earlier rumour
suggested he was not going to be.
My guess is that the 'feet voting' was based on the distance,
inconvenience and cost of attending in Indonesia.
The best place for these events is England/Holland/Germany
since that is where most of the participants are from. And maybe
the USA occasionally.
However the ICCA goes wherever the sponsorship money says. I assume
they get some kind of rake off each time, since it is hardly in
the participants interest to get jet-lagged half-way round the world.
>
> >Something like if the commercial entries and the top amateurs
> >withdrew, then I'ld withdraw too.
>
> i believe Ed Schroder already said he's not going, although i
> don't know why.
Its well known that Ed just doesn't like travelling. He won't even attend
tourneys in the UK (45 minutes fly time from Holland).
> Tom Kerrigan said he's not going, for other reasons.
> i suspect a number of chess programmers feel uneasy about the venue,
> but don't want to rock the boat, or embarrass their colleagues, or
> whatever.
No problem for this writer.
> but this is serious. remember the British women who
> smashed the jet. that was an extreme action, for which they could
> have been locked up for years. instead, the jury agreed that their
> action was justified in order to prevent genocide (in accord with the
> Nuremburg principles). i think that says a lot.
Hmmm. Much opinion in the UK thinks the verdict was madness.
Seems like you can never account for juries (remember OJ ?)
And the planes were unarmed trainers (Hawk jets) - not often used
for machine gunning/napalm or in the B52 role.
> is any chess programmer willing to publicly take a stand for human
> rights? or for common sense? Indonesia is not exactly a vacation
> paradise at the moment! they're arresting people and shooting people.
>
> speak up!
>
> you don't have to smash a jet or risk arrest. just lift a finger
> or two. (oh, and maybe forgo a free plane ride. but i don't believe
> chess programmers are so morally impaired that they can be bought
> for the price of a plane ticket.)
Yeah. Me. But only if there's a general withdrawal. I'm on record
as saying that I'll come out if others also do. I'm not making
token gestures. And so far we've not heard from any other participants.
Andrew Williams
: Hmmm. Much opinion in the UK thinks the verdict was madness.
The point is that the jury heard the evidence and acquitted.
What you or I or anyone else thinks is surely irrelevant.
: Seems like you can never account for juries (remember OJ ?)
I guess that is why the Indonesian government isn't bothering to try the
people they are killing!
: And the planes were unarmed trainers (Hawk jets) - not often used
: for machine gunning/napalm or in the B52 role.
Hawks can be armed and are (obviously) not "training only" devices.
: Yeah. Me. But only if there's a general withdrawal. I'm on record
: as saying that I'll come out if others also do. I'm not making
: token gestures. And so far we've not heard from any other participants.
Why would it be a "token gesture" for you to withdraw. You
could write to tell the organisers *why* you are withdrawing.
--
Andrew Williams A.Wil...@doc.mmu.ac.uk
Department of Computing 0161 247 1532 (AW's office)
Manchester Metropolitan University 0161 247 1500 (Dept office)
Manchester M1 5GD 0161 247 1483 (Fax)
United Kingdom +44 161 247 #### from outside UK