Good news: HYDRA (former NIMZO) will be engine for FRITZ
Rolf Tueschen
Today I read in the new Computr Schach und Spiele that at Xmas also the
new HYDRA will be available as engine for FRITZ. And for ChessBase6
too.
We have then the choice between FRITZ5, HIARCS6, JUNIOR (Paris) and
HYDRA.
The DOCTOR engine will end and not be updated again.
Rolf Tueschen
Eric Hallsworth
In article <662272$32c$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>, Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.ME
DIZIN_KU...@t-online.de> writes
assimilation! :-)
--
Best wishes,
Eric Hallsworth
The Red House, 46 High Street, Wilburton, Cambs CB6 3RA.
Publisher of Britain's bi-monthly Computer Chess magazine since 1985.
http://www.elhchess.demon.co.uk/
Rolf Tueschen
Eric Hallsworth <er...@elhchess.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <662272$32c$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>, Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.ME
>DIZIN_KU...@t-online.de> writes
>>Today I read in the new Computr Schach und Spiele that at Xmas also the
>>new HYDRA will be available as engine for FRITZ. And for ChessBase6
>>too.
>We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
>assimilation! :-)
Gold Medal of the week for best and fastest openly shown understanding
of the Deeper Meaning of a Rolf-Post.
Therefore an add without relation to a certain mag, to a page, to a
specifical author.
I read somewhere these days that it *could* well be that about 200
engines would run under FRITZ in a future Wch.
Eric didn't "know" that, therefore another time the Gold Medal for best
Smelling of Fire.... I just consulted my dic, it was for best fire-alarm
of the week. :)
(We more _advanced_ guys must hold together!)
Giorgio Bertazzo
>We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
>assimilation! :-)
I wonder if this interface is copyrighted.
If it isn't every wise programmer will adopt this standard.
da...@taic.net
Eric Hallsworth <er...@elhchess.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
: assimilation! :-)
The keys to making at least a little bit of money in 1998:
1) Write a chess program that's pretty good.
2) Make at least a reasonable effort to sell it, or at least
to publicize it as something for sale.
3) Fail.
4) Sell out to ChessBase.
Komputer Korner
If you notice, ChessBase don't accept run of the mill programs. Every
program ddl that they will sell is a past champion or present champion.
Nimzo 98 just won the Dutch Championship.
--
- -
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer
If you see a 1 in my email address, take it out before replying.
Please do not email both me and the r.g.c.c. at the same time. I read all
the postings on r.g.c.c.
da...@taic.net wrote in article <664s00$h...@news-central.tiac.net>...
Rolf Tueschen
Har...@t-online.de wrote:
>BTW I have read that the doctor-engine for Fritz/CBWin is an older version
>of JUNIOR, so no need to cry for the ending of the doctor-module. ;-)
Don't know where you've read that but as far as I know the first Doctor
called analyse module or something was a follow up of the former amateur
program BOBBY from Dr. Schruefer and his collegue (name I forgot). They
played in Paderborn.
>Harald Faber
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from er...@elhchess.demon.co.uk
> In article <662272$32c$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>, Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.ME
> DIZIN_KU...@t-online.de> writes
> >Today I read in the new Computr Schach und Spiele that at Xmas also the
> >new HYDRA will be available as engine for FRITZ. And for ChessBase6
> >too.
> >
> >
> >We have then the choice between FRITZ5, HIARCS6, JUNIOR (Paris) and
> >HYDRA.
> >
> >The DOCTOR engine will end and not be updated again.
> >Rolf Tueschen
> We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
> assimilation! :-)
> Eric Hallsworth
You must admit that Fritz5 has lots of senseful features and lots of
customers... ;-)
BTW I have read that the doctor-engine for Fritz/CBWin is an older version
of JUNIOR, so no need to cry for the ending of the doctor-module. ;-)
Harald Faber
MLK and RJP
In article <1e74wJAu...@elhchess.demon.co.uk>, er...@elhchess.demon.co.uk
says...
>
>In article <662272$32c$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>, Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.ME
>DIZIN_KU...@t-online.de> writes
>>Today I read in the new Computr Schach und Spiele that at Xmas also the
>>new HYDRA will be available as engine for FRITZ. And for ChessBase6
>>too.
>>
>>
>>We have then the choice between FRITZ5, HIARCS6, JUNIOR (Paris) and
>>HYDRA.
>>
>>The DOCTOR engine will end and not be updated again.
>>
>>
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
>assimilation! :-)
>Best wishes,
>Eric Hallsworth
>The Red House, 46 High Street, Wilburton, Cambs CB6 3RA.
>Publisher of Britain's bi-monthly Computer Chess magazine since 1985.
>http://www.elhchess.demon.co.uk/
I see that HCC has screen shots of Hydra/Nimzo 98. I wonder if Hydra and the
CB engine will *both* make it to market.
--
Robert Pawlak and
Michelle Kienholz
Chess widower's home page at:
http://members.aol.com/rjpawlak/ch_widow.html
Seifriz
MLK and RJP wrote:
> >>Today I read in the new Computr Schach und Spiele that at Xmas also the
> >>new HYDRA will be available as engine for FRITZ. And for ChessBase6
> >>too.
> >>
> >>
> >>We have then the choice between FRITZ5, HIARCS6, JUNIOR (Paris) and
> >>HYDRA.
> >>
> >>The DOCTOR engine will end and not be updated again.
> >>
> >We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
> >assimilation! :-)
> >--
> >Best wishes,
> >Eric Hallsworth
> >The Red House, 46 High Street, Wilburton, Cambs CB6 3RA.
> >Publisher of Britain's bi-monthly Computer Chess magazine since 1985.
> >http://www.elhchess.demon.co.uk/
>
> I see that HCC has screen shots of Hydra/Nimzo 98. I wonder if Hydra and the
> CB engine will *both* make it to market.
There will be certainly no HYDRA engine before Christmas.
You can expect it in April maybe!
And I doubt if there will be Junior. It is very likely it comes after Christmas.
Bert!
mclane
Seifriz <sei...@gambitsoft.com> wrote:
>There will be certainly no HYDRA engine before Christmas.
>You can expect it in April maybe!
>And I doubt if there will be Junior. It is very likely it comes after Christmas.
>Bert!
So not winter but SOMMER !!
Oh man, I better upgrade my Mchess6 in the meantime.
Or buy Nimzo98 !
Pitters
Im Artikel <3487E350...@gambitsoft.com>, Seifriz <sei...@gambitsoft.com>
schreibt:
>Thema: Re: Good news: HYDRA (former NIMZO) will be engine for FRITZ
>Von: Seifriz <sei...@gambitsoft.com>
>Datum: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 12:19:45 +0100
>
>
>
>MLK and RJP wrote:
>
>> >>Today I read in the new Computr Schach und Spiele that at Xmas also the
>> >>new HYDRA will be available as engine for FRITZ. And for ChessBase6
>> >>too.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>We have then the choice between FRITZ5, HIARCS6, JUNIOR (Paris) and
>> >>HYDRA.
>> >>
>> >>The DOCTOR engine will end and not be updated again.
>> >>
>> >We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
>> >assimilation! :-)
>> >--
>> >Best wishes,
>> >Eric Hallsworth
>> >The Red House, 46 High Street, Wilburton, Cambs CB6 3RA.
>> >Publisher of Britain's bi-monthly Computer Chess magazine since 1985.
>> >http://www.elhchess.demon.co.uk/
>>
>> I see that HCC has screen shots of Hydra/Nimzo 98. I wonder if Hydra and
>the
>> CB engine will *both* make it to market.
>
>There will be certainly no HYDRA engine before Christmas.
>You can expect it in April maybe!
>And I doubt if there will be Junior. It is very likely it comes after
>Christmas.
>Bert!
Hi there,
I found the following statement from HCC under http://www.computerchess.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
"
Fritz/ChessBase?
News spread shortly that new World champion Junior and Nimzo would be released
as engines for Fritz and ChessBase.
According to our our knowledge, this is true but:
Fritz 5 and ChessBase 6 are 16 bit programs for Windows 3. Nimzo 98, however,
is a 32 bit program for Windows 95. Therefor, it is not possible to adapt the
32 bit Nimzo engine for Fritz 5 or ChessBase 6 quickly.
Either Nimzo had to be 'castrated' to 16 bit (it would be weaker than Nimzo 98
then), or ChessBase had to re-design their programs to 32 bit. Since Fritz 5 is
still quite new and nothing is known about a new ChessBase version, this could
take longer.
We don't have details about Junior but we would not be surprised if the same
problem also occured.
So be patient.
<rm> "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Is it possible, that one of the involved persons give us some clearness about
this ?
Have fun
-Peter
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
In article <19971206000...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, Pitters wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>I found the following statement from HCC under http://www.computerchess.com
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------
>"
>Fritz/ChessBase?
>
>News spread shortly that new World champion Junior and Nimzo would be released
>as engines for Fritz and ChessBase.
>
>According to our our knowledge, this is true but:
>
>Fritz 5 and ChessBase 6 are 16 bit programs for Windows 3. Nimzo 98, however,
>is a 32 bit program for Windows 95. Therefor, it is not possible to adapt the
>32 bit Nimzo engine for Fritz 5 or ChessBase 6 quickly.
>
>Either Nimzo had to be 'castrated' to 16 bit (it would be weaker than Nimzo 98
>then), or ChessBase had to re-design their programs to 32 bit. Since Fritz 5 is
>still quite new and nothing is known about a new ChessBase version, this could
>take longer.
There is nothing that prevents 32-bit chess engines from running in 16-bit
operating systems like Windows 3.1 or MS-DOS. For instance, Crafty runs
fine in MS-DOS. Adapting the Nimzo engine to the Fritz 5 GUI is probably
trivial, and should not have any effect on the playing strength.
Tord
ChessBase GmbH
Pitters wrote:
>
> Is it possible, that one of the involved persons give us some clearness about
> this ?
>
> Have fun
>
> -Peter
When the German magazine CSS wrote about a Hydra engine before
christmas, it was pure bullshit and highly counter productive. CSS is
for ChessBase a "loose cannon" - I learned that nice term recently in
CCC. I feel bad about this, since it looks like vapour ware tactics
which would mainly hurt the author Chrilly Donninger.
The Junior engine for Fritz5 runs stable, fast and *devastatingly
strong*. I expect it to go to the CD factory next week. It will be the
first Fritz-engine to have its own specialized openings book!
For Fritz5, Junior will be compiled as 16Bit code. According to Amir
this means around 15% speed loss. I am uncertain whether we will solve
the connection of the 32Bit Hydra into the 16Bit Fritz5. However it is
sure that Hydra will come as Fritz engine at a later stage - worst case
we need a 32Bit adaption of Fritz5 which doesn't look too difficult
according to the experiences we just make with ChessBase.
Conclusio: Buy Nimzo98 now! Buy the Junior engine for Fritz5 now!
Have a look at http://www.computerchess.com/nimzo/home_e.html
--
Matthias
mailto:wuelle...@compuserve.com
http://www.chessbase.com
Please DO NOT mail to 'wuelle...@t-online.de' (dead letter box)
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from mcl...@prima.ruhr.de
> Seifriz <sei...@gambitsoft.com> wrote:
> >There will be certainly no HYDRA engine before Christmas.
> >You can expect it in April maybe!
> >And I doubt if there will be Junior. It is very likely it comes after
> >Christmas. Bert!
>
>
> So not winter but SOMMER !!
> Oh man, I better upgrade my Mchess6 in the meantime.
> Or buy Nimzo98 !
Or Shredder2 or Virtual2... ;-)
Harald Faber
mclane
Har...@t-online.de wrote:
>> We're going to have to rename the firm ChessBorg at this rate of
>> assimilation! :-)
>> Eric Hallsworth
ChessBorg !! Brilliant ! Rate of assimilation !! ChessBase has a new
image now !
WIDERSTAND IST ZWECKLOS ?
No - Widerstand against the Borg is the first buergerpflicht !
Or : Wo Gewalt herrscht, wird Widerstand zur Pflicht.
>You must admit that Fritz5 has lots of senseful features and lots of
>customers... ;-)
Which one is senseful Harald ?
mclane
Har...@t-online.de wrote:
>> So not winter but SOMMER !!
>> Oh man, I better upgrade my Mchess6 in the meantime.
>> Or buy Nimzo98 !
>Or Shredder2 or Virtual2... ;-)
Right. But Virtual2 is not upgradable and NOT sold before christmas or
even this year.
Shredder2 is sold indeed.
Right Harald. Let us concentrate on the POSSIBLE instead of waiting
for the impossible.
Shredder2, Mchess7, Nimzo98. Looks like an ad of Ossi ! :-)
Somehow he always gets the right deals in the right moment.
This guy comes always back !
Maybe Ossi Weiner for a KK gold metal, the ever returning Jedi
(Weiner) ?
>Harald Faber
mclane
Wuelle...@t-online.de (ChessBase GmbH) wrote:
>Pitters wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible, that one of the involved persons give us some clearness about
>> this ?
>>
>> Have fun
>>
>> -Peter
>When the German magazine CSS wrote about a Hydra engine before
>christmas, it was pure bullshit and highly counter productive.
Ahhhh ! Speaking out of my soul !
Thans Matthias. The Editorial of CSS 5/97 was also counter-productive.
In fact I know MANY articles in this magazine beeing bullshit !
>CSS is
>for ChessBase a "loose cannon" -
I have heard this word somewhere before .... :-)
>I learned that nice term recently in
>CCC. I feel bad about this, since it looks like vapour ware tactics
>which would mainly hurt the author Chrilly Donninger.
First they attack Stefan Meyer-Kahlen without any reason (because
Shredder2 is really strong) in their editorial using/misusing stefan
lieberts words, than they write (again christian liebert) a bullshit
article about nimzo.
This magazine has only one idea: printing positive reader-letters for
ChessBase-products and printing negative articles against all
competitor products.
I have seen this SO OFTEN before. Against Ed's products, against
almost anybody. Why not call CSS "ChessBase and Spiele" = CBS instead
of CSS ?
This would be show the intentions of Mr.Friedel/Steinwender much
better.
As I said, we try it with sending them negative-reader-letters
(negative comments on ChessBase products) but they are never printed !
The good thing with authors like liebert is, that they produce exactly
the sound the 2 publishers want to publish. If you take a look into
the CSS crew you will register that their are many people involved who
automatically write bullshit in the point of view of the 2 publishers.
E.g. Karsten wrote a nice article about the championship, but in no
word he wrote about the technical problems there.
I know why not, in the same way liebert is brainwashed, Karsten is
automatically PRO CSS brainwashed.
Matthias, you understood that a magazine that is manipulating the
readers with each edition acting against the categorical imperative of
Kant is CONTRA-PRODUCTIVE.
It is really a loose-canon ! I am very pleased that you see this.
I would have no problems to live with you into one universe. But I
have my problems to live with the people, that are in charge for these
UNPRODUCTIVE brainwash-work.
A good product like "chess-base" is has no need for these unfair and
bullshit methods. Writing manipulation-magazines like CSS is in no way
a good idea to "launch" (one of Fred's favourite terms) it.
Over the years Friedel and Steinwender have done many nice things for
computerchess. But in the same time, they have written and authorized
so many mean-attacks on NON-ChessBase companies, that I am not sure if
they have made more damage or good-things for computerchess.
Free speech is ok. But when the Free-Speech develops into PRO CHESS
BASE and AGAINST all other products, in reader-letters AND in
articles, than it is time for the persons to go in pension.
Since Friedel is no longer writing the Editorial it seems that he is
gone. But they have replaced themselves with guys who write
automatically the same way (unfair against all NON-ChessBase products)
that this magazine is a loose-canon.
I have often tried to explain them that they will not be remembered as
the Protagonists at all when they are dead.
Still they give their best to make me right concerning their
life-work. I wonder why. Is their no change possible ? Is a human
beeing unable to change himself for good reasons?
It looks they work the same way for years now. And all critics has not
changed anything. WHEN will they accept that attacks against their way
of doing it is not always an act against them, but more a big hint to
prevent them of doing bullshit.
>The Junior engine for Fritz5 runs stable, fast and *devastatingly
>strong*. I expect it to go to the CD factory next week. It will be the
>first Fritz-engine to have its own specialized openings book!
Do we get it this year ?
How much is the prize ?
What information is shown by the engine ?
Search depth ?
Brnach number ? Evaluation, NPS ?
>For Fritz5, Junior will be compiled as 16Bit code. According to Amir
>this means around 15% speed loss. I am uncertain whether we will solve
>the connection of the 32Bit Hydra into the 16Bit Fritz5. However it is
>sure that Hydra will come as Fritz engine at a later stage - worst case
>we need a 32Bit adaption of Fritz5 which doesn't look too difficult
>according to the experiences we just make with ChessBase.
A very fair and honest answer Matthias ! Thanks !
>Conclusio: Buy Nimzo98 now! Buy the Junior engine for Fritz5 now!
We want to do so, in the moment it (Junior) is sold, we will be
looking forward to buy it.
Next championship he will not have the advantage of playing with an
UNKNOWN program ! :-)
>Have a look at http://www.computerchess.com/nimzo/home_e.html
Why don't you take over CSS ? It would than develop instantly into a
useful magazine instead of a propaganda-machine for chessbase !
Thanks for your honest statements.
MLK and RJP
As an aside, the screen shots of Nimzo 98 make the program look good. It has a
very nice 3-D board, and clean interface.
Pitters
Im Artikel <66dvob$6ok$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de>, Wuelle...@t-online.de
(ChessBase GmbH) wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible, that one of the involved persons give us some clearness
>about
>> this ?
>>
>> Have fun
>>
>> -Peter
>
>When the German magazine CSS wrote about a Hydra engine before
>christmas, it was pure bullshit and highly counter productive.>
Correct, just my opinion ;-)
> CSS is
>for ChessBase a "loose cannon" - I learned that nice term recently in
>CCC. I feel bad about this, since it looks like vapour ware tactics
>which would mainly hurt the author Chrilly Donninger.
>
>The Junior engine for Fritz5 runs stable, fast and *devastatingly
>strong*. I expect it to go to the CD factory next week. It will be the
>first Fritz-engine to have its own specialized openings book!
>
Excellent !!!! We `re looking forward for this great programm.
I`m shure, it will enrich the chess scene !
>For Fritz5, Junior will be compiled as 16Bit code. According to Amir
>this means around 15% speed loss. I am uncertain whether we will solve
>the connection of the 32Bit Hydra into the 16Bit Fritz5. However it is
>sure that Hydra will come as Fritz engine at a later stage - worst case
>we need a 32Bit adaption of Fritz5 which doesn't look too difficult
>according to the experiences we just make with ChessBase.
>
>Conclusio: Buy Nimzo98 now! Buy the Junior engine for Fritz5 now!
>
>Have a look at http://www.computerchess.com/nimzo/home_e.html
>
>--
>Matthias
>
>mailto:wuelle...@compuserve.com
Thank you for this clear statement, Matthias !
Have a good time
-Peter
Seifriz
Tord Kallqvist Romstad wrote:
> There is nothing that prevents 32-bit chess engines from running in 16-bit
> operating systems like Windows 3.1 or MS-DOS. For instance, Crafty runs
> fine in MS-DOS. Adapting the Nimzo engine to the Fritz 5 GUI is probably
> trivial, and should not have any effect on the playing strength.
>
Yes, but as you see in this thread there maybe some speed loss, and
Donninger told me that he wants the real 32 Bit thing and that this is
in his contract, and that will take some time to come! Bert!
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
Yes, it seems that I was wrong. Of course I knew that Microsoft's operating
systems were not excactly state of the art, but I couldn't imagine they were
_that_ bad.
Tord
Randy Baker
Tord Kallqvist Romstad wrote in message ...
This one isn't entirely Microsoft's fault. The difficulty here is that
Fritz5 is a 16 bit .EXE, and it must communicate with the engine somehow.
(The engines are implemented as .DLL's, but to make matters even more
interesting they somehow get run as processes with their own taskbar icon
and window, too. I suspect this is to facilitate multitasking). Writing a 32
bit engine isn't the problem. Sharing data between the engine and the
running Fritz5 application is more difficult. The engine interface is
implemented via function call/return, which is not portable across 16 and 32
bit environments, and &deity. only knows if there is shared memory which
must be accessed by both the application and engine.
If the engines had been implemented as out-of-process OLE automation servers
instead, there would be no 16-32 bit issues to worry about. You could have
an old 16 bit Fritz which could use either 16 or newer 32 bit engines, and a
new 32 bit version of Fritz could also use the older engines. This would
require careful design of the interface, but there is no reason it couldn't
be done.
Randy Baker (remove Z from address in email replies)
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from mcl...@prima.ruhr.de
> >> So not winter but SOMMER !!
> >> Oh man, I better upgrade my Mchess6 in the meantime.
> >> Or buy Nimzo98 !
>
> >Or Shredder2 or Virtual2... ;-)
>
> Right. But Virtual2 is not upgradable and NOT sold before christmas or
> even this year.
> Shredder2 is sold indeed.
Where? My latest info (7.12.) said it should be available in the middle/
2nd week of december but isn't available yet.
> Right Harald. Let us concentrate on the POSSIBLE instead of waiting
> for the impossible.
>
> Shredder2, Mchess7, Nimzo98. Looks like an ad of Ossi ! :-)
I am missing Shredder2 as released and haven't heard of Nimzo98 being
released.
> Somehow he always gets the right deals in the right moment.
> This guy comes always back !
> Maybe Ossi Weiner for a KK gold metal, the ever returning Jedi
> (Weiner) ?
This award should be given by KK. :-)
Harald Faber
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from mcl...@prima.ruhr.de
> >You must admit that Fritz5 has lots of senseful features and lots of
> >customers... ;-)
>
> Which one is senseful Harald ?
You really ask????
OK, short form:
Friend mode, Sparring, tree, analyze function (database/game), solving
testuites.
Enough?
Harald Faber
Matthias Wüllenweber
mclane wrote:
World Champion Junior:
>
> Do we get it this year ?
Yes.
> How much is the prize ?
DM 98,- incl. VAT
> What information is shown by the engine ?
> Search depth ?
Yes.
> Brnach number ? Evaluation, NPS ?
What is a Brnach number?
Junior comes on CD with its own big opening book in tree format. There
is an analysis DLL for ChessBase included. Furthermore the CD contains
the current (and slightly revised version) of the Fritz5 GUI to adapt
the node counter of Junior.
bruce moreland
On 8 Dec 1997 16:58:45 GMT, rom...@menelaos.uio.no (Tord Kallqvist
Romstad) wrote:
>Yes, it seems that I was wrong. Of course I knew that Microsoft's operating
>systems were not excactly state of the art, but I couldn't imagine they were
>_that_ bad.
This has nothing to do with the operating system.
bruce
Peter Herttrich
Matthias Wüllenweber <Wuelle...@t-online.de> wrote:
: mclane wrote:
: World Champion Junior:
: >
: > Do we get it this year ?
: Yes.
: > How much is the prize ?
: DM 98,- incl. VAT
Short question:
I own a copy of Fritz 4.01, can I use the Junior engine with it?
Peter
--
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Peter Herttrich email: dh1...@inss1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de
Universitaet Karlsruhe Tel. +49 721 6083747 FAX +49 721 6086071
Institut fuer Nachrichtentechnik ..life outside caves is complicated ...
_____________________________________________________________________________
mclane
Har...@t-online.de wrote:
Ah - I don't need the friend mode, nor the sparring mode. also the
tree looks very senseless to me. The analyse features are good. I like
them indeed. But I knew they were constructed for Mr. Borik to handle
SCHACH64 magazine better.
Solving testsuites is solved weak from my point of view. It needs PGN
and the key move . WHY ?
I would expect EPD and optional key-moves.
>Harald Faber
mclane
Har...@t-online.de wrote:
>> Right. But Virtual2 is not upgradable and NOT sold before christmas or
>> even this year.
>> Shredder2 is sold indeed.
>Where? My latest info (7.12.) said it should be available in the middle/
>2nd week of december but isn't available yet.
Aha. It looks only OSSI has them in the moment and all other
distributors get SOMETIMES a few units.
Very funny. Suddenly he is controlling anything again. Funny.
>I am missing Shredder2 as released and haven't heard of Nimzo98 being
>released.
Right. Both programs are rare !!! Niggemann was unable to deliver too.
I guess Gambit has the same problems. And Ossi?
>Harald Faber
mclane
Wuelle...@t-online.de (Matthias Wüllenweber) wrote:
>Yes.
Really ? Where ?? Anywhere, ChessBase Hamburg or Niggemann ? Gambit
and Weiner too ?
>> How much is the prize ?
>DM 98,- incl. VAT
Thats a good answer ! I would have expected 150,- ... :-)
>> Search depth ?
>Yes.
>> Brnach number ? Evaluation, NPS ?
>What is a Brnach number?
Branch, sorry typo error. Branch-no. is Ast-Nummer.
>Junior comes on CD with its own big opening book in tree format. There
>is an analysis DLL for ChessBase included. Furthermore the CD contains
>the current (and slightly revised version) of the Fritz5 GUI to adapt
>the node counter of Junior.
AHA !! Why is this nessesary ? Has Junior a different way to NPS then
Fritz and Hiarcs ? Could you explain this ?
My birthday is 30.12. and I hope that my friend Uli will be able to
give me Junior as a birthday-present. Don't disapoint me. Don't give
Uli an excuse why he had no Junior for me. :-)
ChessBase GmbH
mclane wrote:
>
> AHA !! Why is this nessesary ? Has Junior a different way to NPS then
> Fritz and Hiarcs ? Could you explain this ?
Because Fritz5 currently didn't display node counts. BTW, after many
months of frustration, I now found a simple way to make you love Fritz:
Dividing the node count by 1000, Fritz5 now displays a comfortable
1000-3000 N/s. That shouldn't look so disgusting any more.
--
Matthias
Find the latest Fritz5 tournament games at
http://www.chessbaseusa.com/fritz5/index.htm
ChessBase GmbH
Peter Herttrich wrote:
>
>
> Short question:
> I own a copy of Fritz 4.01, can I use the Junior engine with it?
>
> Peter
Short answer:
Yes, but you cannot use the Paris book coming with it because its in the
new tree format.
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from mcl...@prima.ruhr.de
[Junior]
> >> How much is the prize ?
>
> >DM 98,- incl. VAT
>
> Thats a good answer ! I would have expected 150,- ... :-)
No engine costs more than DM98... ;-)
> My birthday is 30.12. and I hope that my friend Uli will be able to
> give me Junior as a birthday-present. Don't disapoint me. Don't give
> Uli an excuse why he had no Junior for me. :-)
Seems that neither Virtual2 nor Junior will be available for X-mas...maybe
Nimzo98 will be..
Harald Faber
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from mcl...@prima.ruhr.de
> >> Shredder2 is sold indeed.
> >Where? My latest info (7.12.) said it should be available in the middle/
> >2nd week of december but isn't available yet.
> Aha. It looks only OSSI has them in the moment and all other
> distributors get SOMETIMES a few units.
Did Ossi really have some?
> Very funny. Suddenly he is controlling anything again. Funny.
Same as with MCP7...although Bert was faster than the others...
> >I am missing Shredder2 as released and haven't heard of Nimzo98 being
> >released.
> Right. Both programs are rare !!! Niggemann was unable to deliver too.
> I guess Gambit has the same problems. And Ossi?
Don't know. Now heard that Shredder2 should be available and sent out
today.
Harald Faber
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from mcl...@prima.ruhr.de
> >> >You must admit that Fritz5 has lots of senseful features and lots of
> >> >customers... ;-)
> >> Which one is senseful Harald ?
> >You really ask????
> >OK, short form:
> >Friend mode, Sparring, tree, analyze function (database/game), solving
> >testuites.
> >Enough?
>
> Ah - I don't need the friend mode, nor the sparring mode. also the
> tree looks very senseless to me.
So read above, I wrote for the majority of customers. Of course there are
features that don't interest me either. But for the community they are
good and no other program has these features.
> The analyse features are good. I like
> them indeed. But I knew they were constructed for Mr. Borik to handle
> SCHACH64 magazine better.
Every program should save analyzed games with these lines like in Fritz5!
It is much easier to play through the alternative lines suggested by Fritz/
Hiarcs.
> Solving testsuites is solved weak from my point of view. It needs PGN
> and the key move . WHY ?
Simply to know where to stop the anaylsis.
This saves much time, you don't need to keep the program running for
10mins per position etc. Only improvement would be to raise the limit for
extra-ply. 3 can't be not enough.
> I would expect EPD and optional key-moves.
AFAIK Matthias said to implement EPD probably in Fritz5.01
Harald Faber
Komputer Korner
Thorsten, you obviously never do any opening book study. The Fritz 5 chess
tree is the best tool for opening book study since Bookup. All you do to
add a move to the book (the same in Bookup) is to play the move on the
board. Also the blundercheck feature is amazing. It is misnamed. It should
be called the Super annotation ferature. Ability to add a number of engines
and to play engine vs engine , nice coach feature, special correspondence
analysis feature which is also misnamed, archiving database, move
evaluation graph, use of chesstree like an opening book, Fritz mark test
feature, promote line feature, learning book feature, position searching,
voice chatter, and move sounds which duplicate the real movement of pieces
on a wooden board, read multimedia files, search on medals/user specified
themes. There are other improvements as well too numerous to list here.
Along with the friend and sparring modes which you don't need, the above is
why I call Fritz 5 the Chess Program of the Year. Thorsten, you are only
interested in Strong chess playing programs and speculative strong
programs like CSTAL. Don't downgrade other programs just because you
aren't interested in features. Many others appreciate and use these
features. CSTAL has a lot of features too but is missing 2 key features
such as Analyze a finished game and chesstree.
--
- -
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer
If you see a 1 in my email address, take it out before replying.
Please do not email both me and the r.g.c.c. at the same time. I read all
the postings on r.g.c.c.
mclane <mcl...@prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
<66p4ts$t22$2...@steve.prima.ruhr.de>...
> >Enough?
>
> Ah - I don't need the friend mode, nor the sparring mode. also the
> tree looks very senseless to me. The analyse features are good. I like
> them indeed. But I knew they were constructed for Mr. Borik to handle
> SCHACH64 magazine better.
> Solving testsuites is solved weak from my point of view. It needs PGN
> and the key move . WHY ?
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
In article <01bd079c$0f8af720$a55ab5cf@ALAN>, Komputer Korner wrote:
>Thorsten, you obviously never do any opening book study. The Fritz 5 chess
>tree is the best tool for opening book study since Bookup. All you do to
>add a move to the book (the same in Bookup) is to play the move on the
>board. Also the blundercheck feature is amazing. It is misnamed. It should
>be called the Super annotation ferature. Ability to add a number of engines
>and to play engine vs engine , nice coach feature, special correspondence
>analysis feature which is also misnamed, archiving database, move
>evaluation graph, use of chesstree like an opening book, Fritz mark test
>feature, promote line feature, learning book feature, position searching,
>voice chatter, and move sounds which duplicate the real movement of pieces
>on a wooden board, read multimedia files, search on medals/user specified
>themes. There are other improvements as well too numerous to list here.
>Along with the friend and sparring modes which you don't need, the above is
>why I call Fritz 5 the Chess Program of the Year. Thorsten, you are only
>interested in Strong chess playing programs and speculative strong
>programs like CSTAL. Don't downgrade other programs just because you
>aren't interested in features. Many others appreciate and use these
>features. CSTAL has a lot of features too but is missing 2 key features
>such as Analyze a finished game and chesstree.
Korner, I would appreciate if you could add some more IMHOs to your postings.
You always present your own opinions as if they were some kind of objective
truth. Why do you always say "Fritz 5 is the Chess Program of the Year"
instead of "Fritz 5 is my favorite chess program"? As you write in your
posting, different people looks for different things in chess programs.
Thorsten, I and many others are concerned mainly with the program's strength
and playing style. Generally, we do not agree that Fritz 5 is "the Chess
Program of the Year". Of course I have no trouble accepting that your
opinions are different from mine, but I often find the way you present your
opinions irritating.
I think you could avoid lots of fights here in rgcc (like your ongoing war
against Mats Winther, which seems entirely pointless to me) by changing the
style of your postings slightly. Why not add a few IMHOs at appropriate
places?
Tord
Komputer Korner
Okay, but you are outnumbered by people that want features. Fritz 5 sells
much more than the top strength programs. Now that Rebel 9 Light is so
cheap, this might change.
- -
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer
If you see a 1 in my email address, take it out before replying.
Please do not email both me and the r.g.c.c. at the same time. I read all
the postings on r.g.c.c.
Tord Kallqvist Romstad <rom...@priamos.uio.no> wrote in article
<slrn694uhl....@priamos.uio.no>...
Chris Lott
>
>Korner, I would appreciate if you could add some more IMHOs to your postings.
That would be why Korner says "the above is why *I* call F5 the
program of the year" (emphasis added). How much clearer can he be that
he is stating an opinion?
Anyone who doesn't understand that should be buying bridges from me!
Instead of arguing rhetorical pinpoints, it would be more productive
if you just pointed out whatever program YOU think is better and WHY.
At least KK does the latter.
c
--
Chris Lott
fn...@uaf.edu
mclane
"Komputer Korner" <kor...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> Don't downgrade other programs just because you
>aren't interested in features. Many others appreciate and use these
>features. CSTAL has a lot of features too but is missing 2 key features
>such as Analyze a finished game and chesstree.
I do only give my personal ideas about this program. You seem to
forget that I have bought it (better: upgraded from Fritz4 to Fritz5)
like many others too. I am a customer too and was not impressed in
PARIS. When my photographs of Paris are ready I can show you nice
pictures of Feist, Morsch and Friedel beeing also not very happy when
watching their child...
mclane
rom...@priamos.uio.no (Tord Kallqvist Romstad) wrote:
>Korner, I would appreciate if you could add some more IMHOs to your postings.
>truth. Why do you always say "Fritz 5 is the Chess Program of the Year"
>instead of "Fritz 5 is my favorite chess program"? As you write in your
>posting, different people looks for different things in chess programs.
Exactly !
>Thorsten, I and many others are concerned mainly with the program's strength
>and playing style.
Right.
I like the rest. it is not bad. With hiarcs6 really a nice program.
Maybe also with junior. I will tell maybe later how much junior
increases Fritz's value. Enrichment engine.
> Generally, we do not agree that Fritz 5 is "the Chess
>Program of the Year". Of course I have no trouble accepting that your
>opinions are different from mine, but I often find the way you present your
>opinions irritating.
Illogical. Or how would Spock say ? Irrational ?
>I think you could avoid lots of fights here in rgcc (like your ongoing war
>against Mats Winther, which seems entirely pointless to me) by changing the
>style of your postings slightly. Why not add a few IMHOs at appropriate
>places?
>Tord
Thanks Tord. I agree with you in this point (don't see this as an
attack KK. )
mclane
Wuelle...@t-online.de (ChessBase GmbH) wrote:
>mclane wrote:
>>
>> AHA !! Why is this nessesary ? Has Junior a different way to NPS then
>> Fritz and Hiarcs ? Could you explain this ?
>Because Fritz5 currently didn't display node counts. BTW, after many
>months of frustration, I now found a simple way to make you love Fritz:
>Dividing the node count by 1000, Fritz5 now displays a comfortable
>1000-3000 N/s. That shouldn't look so disgusting any more.
Wuellenweber in Czub-mode !! :-)
Brilliant.
And did you also found a way to cheat me with the weak moves and no
idea about the plan of the game ? :-)
Hm. The strength , the absolute strength of a chess program is NOT
important to me. The approach counts for me. I have nothing against
working with weak-chess programs as long as they fit into my point of
view of the world. A program that nearly uses a dice to choose the
moves is NOT my appropriate choice. :-) sorry, could'nt resist to
follow your invitation. WHEN can I buy my junior-engine ?
It is the 14th december.... lechz... I don't need marzipan nor
weihrauch, I need JUNIOR!!!! Want to replay all the karpov-moves
(knight-moves back to the first-rank to overprotect the kings-safety)
from Paris and study the reason in the evaluation and main-line etc.
mclane
"Komputer Korner" <kor...@netcom.ca> wrote:
And what is the good news in this thread ?
That Chrilly Donninger can make some money?
Hm. I don't think the good news is that hydra will be (whenever) a
fritz-engine.
mclane
ecle...@polarnet.com (Chris Lott) wrote:
>Instead of arguing rhetorical pinpoints, it would be more productive
But this is very famous. Instead of talking the people play a kind of
net-chess against each other. Can I kill you rhetorical in public ?
So you see - chess is everywhere. Also in the net-chats.
>if you just pointed out whatever program YOU think is better and WHY.
>At least KK does the latter.
>c
May Fritz5 be the product of the year, I don't care. This year is
nearly over in a few days. Horray !
Har...@t-online.de
quoting a mail from kor...@netcom.ca
> Thorsten, you obviously never do any opening book study. The Fritz 5 chess
> tree is the best tool for opening book study since Bookup. All you do to
> add a move to the book (the same in Bookup) is to play the move on the
> board.
> Komputer Korner
What is missing is to delete a move in the tree. ;-)
But as I wrote Matthias promised to correct this with Fritz5.01-update...
Harald Faber
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
In article <3494971...@news.polarnet.com>, Chris Lott wrote:
>
>>
>>Korner, I would appreciate if you could add some more IMHOs to your postings.
>
>program of the year" (emphasis added).
Yes, he said so *this* time. He often doesn't.
>How much clearer can he be that he is stating an opinion?
See above.
>Instead of arguing rhetorical pinpoints, it would be more productive
>if you just pointed out whatever program YOU think is better and WHY.
I dislike Fritz because I find its style of play uninteresting and not very
human-like. When playing against Hiarcs, Genius, WChess, MChess, Rebel or
the King, I can often sense some intelligence or knowledge in my opponent.
All these programs have their own unique "personality". When playing against
Fritz, I don't sense anything except NPS. The program is hard to beat, but
I am bored by its style of play.
My favorite programs at the moment are MChess and WChess. Both these programs
have an aggressive, dynamic playing style and are not afraid of sacrificing
material for an attack. I really hope Kittinger will soon release a new
version of his wonderful program (hopefully with a more user-friendly copy
protection scheme!). If he still has the source code of the old Super
Constellation program, maybe we could get a Super Constellation engine for
WChess as well! Does anyone on this group have any contact with Dave? What
are his plans for the future?
>At least KK does the latter.
My posting was not intended as some type of attack against KK, but rather
a piece of friendly advice. I regard KK as a valuable and knowledgable
contributor to rgcc, and I sincerely hope that he will continue to take
part in our discussions for a long time.
Tord
Komputer Korner
Tord,
Look at my new sig!.
- -
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer
If you see a 1 in my email address, take it out before replying.
Please do not email both me and the r.g.c.c. at the same time. I read all
the postings on r.g.c.c.
Also every statement of mine should be taken with a grain of salt. Read at
your own risk and
assume that it is only this humble komputer's opinion.
Tord Kallqvist Romstad <rom...@menelaos.uio.no> wrote in article
<slrn69fs0b....@menelaos.uio.no>...
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
In article <01bd0b2d$4bd92dc0$5a5ab5cf@ALAN>, Komputer Korner wrote:
>Tord,
> Look at my new sig!.
Thank you! I like it! :-)
Tord