more Amer. Indian Recipes
mawells@galluj
of the recipes. The book has Indian sayings, traditions and gives the Indian
names of some of the recipes. I posted in good faith that they were truly
Indian. I appologize for any incorrectness there may be.
BTW, weren't there any cows way back then. I mean if there were cows wouldn't
that mean there was milk. Not trying to flame or start a flame, but that would
make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong again.
Mary Ann
Don't count the day done until you've made the day count.
Herman Rubin
>I only copied from the book "Indian Cookin". I can not verify the authinticity
>of the recipes. The book has Indian sayings, traditions and gives the Indian
>names of some of the recipes. I posted in good faith that they were truly
>Indian. I appologize for any incorrectness there may be.
>BTW, weren't there any cows way back then. I mean if there were cows wouldn't
>that mean there was milk. Not trying to flame or start a flame, but that would
>make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong again.
Only one native North American animal has been domesticated in North America
even now, the dog. (The caribou has been somewhat domesticated in northern
Europe as the reindeer.) There was no source of milk, nor for that matter,
any reliable source for eggs. Maple sugar was not really available in
abundance during the season, as the Indians did not know how to tap the
trees without killing them.
Any really authentic Indian recipe would have to use only readily
available plants and animal meat. Animal fat was available. But
Indian pudding is probably an invention of the New England settlers,
who gave it the name because it used cornmeal instead of some other
grain product.
--
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hru...@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
John David Auwen
>Any really authentic Indian recipe would have to use only readily
>available plants and animal meat. Animal fat was available. But
>Indian pudding is probably an invention of the New England settlers,
>who gave it the name because it used cornmeal instead of some other
>grain product.
But what is "authentic"? By this definition, any cuisine made from
modern ingredients isn't authentic. Indian cooking evolved as new
ingredients became available. I grew up in Oklahoma and had a
number of indian friends. When I ate at their house, the style
of cooking was distinct from what we ate at home. Indian fry
bread may not go back 1000 years, but there aren't many recipes
that do.
Dave
au...@convex.com
Judith Dick
>Dave
>au...@convex.com
On the other hand, we could profitably do away with additions like
canned soup, and talk about ingredients like wild rice and the
three sisters - corn, beans and squash.
Judy Dick
di...@cs.toronto.edu
25348-rana
>
>that mean there was milk. Not trying to flame or start a flame, but that would
>make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong again.
>
buffalo are native to North America, so perhaps the American Indians were
milking buffalos. It's possible.
HUFFMAN BRADLEY SP
>Any really authentic Indian recipe would have to use only readily
>available plants and animal meat. Animal fat was available. But
>Indian pudding is probably an invention of the New England settlers,
>who gave it the name because it used cornmeal instead of some other
>grain product.
And every Italian dish that contains tomatos was really invented in
America.
You people keep talking about American Indians like they were one group.
Currently there are over a 100 different tribes in the state of Oklahoma,
and not all of them chased bufflo.
Brad
Stillwater, Oklahoma
sharon badian
|> I only copied from the book "Indian Cookin". I can not verify the authinticity
|> of the recipes. The book has Indian sayings, traditions and gives the Indian
|> names of some of the recipes. I posted in good faith that they were truly
|> Indian. I appologize for any incorrectness there may be.
I am not trying to start a war here. I just wanted to point out that these
do not represent pre-conquest recipes. I would think they are very tough to
find. American Indians probably didn't have cookbooks until well after the
arrival of Europeans. By that time, they would certainly be using European
foodstuffs in their cooking. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you
are trying to be absolutely authentic (and really, I'm not such a stickler
for authenticity).
|> BTW, weren't there any cows way back then. I mean if there were cows wouldn't
|> that mean there was milk. Not trying to flame or start a flame, but that would
|> make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong again.
Goats, sheep, horses, camels, water buffalo and cows are all Old World
creatures. Unless the Indians found a way to domesticate and milk bison,
deer or moose, they would not have access to milk. Otherwise, they would
have to wait until the Europeans brought domesticated beasts to the
Americas before they could enjoy milk shakes and chocolate milk. :-)
Actually, in South America, they might have gotten milk from domesticated
animals such as llamas and vicunas, but I can't think of any similar
species in North America. I think the only widely domesticated animal
was the turkey. Not known for giving much milk. :-)
[I find the history of food - where it came from, etc. - very fascinating.
That's why I'm posting it here. Padron me if you don't share my enthusiasm.]
--
Sharon Badian
AT&T Bell Labs - Denver
se...@druhi.att.com
Max Coltheart
Sydney has a restaurant where you can eat foods that were eaten in Australia
before any Europeans were in the country: witchetty grubs, kangaroo, a number
of nuts and fruits that are indigenous. The chef is French, but the ingredients
are very Australian.
Max C
John David Auwen
>On the other hand, we could profitably do away with additions like
>canned soup, and talk about ingredients like wild rice and the
>three sisters - corn, beans and squash.
This reminds me of a recipe that was posted to this group a couple
of years ago. Sorry but I can't give credit to the person who originally
posted it because I edited out their header. But thanks, whoever you
are!
Dave
au...@convex.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Native American 3 Sisters of Life
Native American Indians honored their three staples - corn,
beans and squash - by refering to them as the "3 Sisters of
Life". These plants not only provide a balanced set of
nutrients, they symbiotically nourish and protect each other when
they are grown together. The beans provide nitrogen for the
corn, which in turn provide poles for the beans, while the spiny
squash provide protection from the racoons and deer. As a
demonstration of the true partnership between the gardner and the
land, Native American crops included snap and dry beans, summer
and winter squash, and corn.
According to Native American tradition, corn is called the
Sacred Mother and revered as a gift from the gods. Corn, the
all-nourishing sacred food, has been used in innumerable rituals
to symbolize and honor fertility, renewal and power. The
midsummer harvest was a time of joyful celebration. Natures many
varieties of corn can be eaten fresh on the cob, roasted over hot
coals, cooked in soups or stews, or ground for meal or flour.
Beans and corn form a complimentary protein so they were
often used together in cooking. The many types of beans
(pinto, red kidney, soldier) were cooked in a variety of ways,
most commonly boiled and fried. Most of the beans that were
grown were dried and stored for future use.
Both summer and winter squash were widely cultivated. Fresh
and dried squash were boiled, baked, fried and cooked in stews.
Native American cooks seasoned squash with nut butters or maple
syrup, while colonists used butter and cinnamin or nutmeg.
Here is a colorful casserole which honors the Native
American "3 Sisters of Life". Enjoy!
3 Sisters Casserole
(serves 4-6)
1 cup dried pinto or kidney beans
A pinch of chili powder
A pinch of cayenne pepper
1 tsp cumin
1 clove of garlic, crushed
1 cup of diced onion
2-3 cups of diced squash
3 cups of corn
1 cup of diced red and green peppers
A pinch of salt
Soak the beans overnight, then drain the water, rinse and
add 3 1/2 cups of fresh water and the pinches of cayenne and
chili powder. Bring to a boil and simmer for 1 hour. Meanwhile,
sautee the garlic, onion, peppers, cumin and another pinch of cayenne
until the onions are soft. When the beans are soft, stir in the
sauteed onions. Then add the squash on the top and cook until
tender (about 15 minutes). Next, add the corn and cook for 10
more minutes. Finally, add the salt and mix the cassrole
together. Garnish with lots of chopped parsley or scallions.
Serve hot with tortillas and a salad. Makes great leftovers too!
Ilana Stern
|In article <1992Jun29.222750.1@galluj>, mawells@galluj writes:
|I only copied from the book "Indian Cookin". I can not verify the authinticity
|of the recipes. The book has Indian sayings, traditions and gives the Indian
|names of some of the recipes. I posted in good faith that they were truly
|Indian. I appologize for any incorrectness there may be.
> I am not trying to start a war here. I just wanted to point out that these
> do not represent pre-conquest recipes. I would think they are very tough to
> find. American Indians probably didn't have cookbooks until well after the
> arrival of Europeans. By that time, they would certainly be using European
> foodstuffs in their cooking. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you
> are trying to be absolutely authentic (and really, I'm not such a stickler
> for authenticity).
It seems to me that you are both correct. The original poster copied
recipes which (from the occasional attributions) were collected from various
currently living Native Americans. Thus, Indian Cooking. No mention was
made of whether or not the recipes were pre-conquest, and there is no
reason they should have been. After all, do you consider any dish invented
in France after, say, the French Revolution, not "authentic French
cuisine?"
A dish that a Navajo woman living on the reservation makes, that she
was taught how by her grandmother, that perhaps was invented by that
woman's mother, may not be what you think of as "authentic Indian cooking."
But it is so, nevertheless.
--
/\ Ilana Stern DOD#009 | National Center for Adventurous Recreation
\_][ il...@ncar.ucar.edu | Boulder, Colorado
\_______________________|______________________________________________
sharon badian
|> Sharon, more history of food, *please* - surely here is where it belongs!
For those of you who share my interest in the history of food, check out
Raymond Sokolov's column in Natural History magazine (the magazine of the
American Museum of Natural History). The column is called A Matter of Taste
and each month he features a different cuisine, country or foodstuff. This
month the column is on barley eaters in the mountains of Ecuador. Barley
is an Old World crop so this is a case of a New World staple crop (quinoa)
being replaced by an Old World crop.
Mr. Sokolov has also written at least one book, which I have at home. I
haven't read it yet. I believe it's about the impact New World foodstuffs
had on the rest of the world. Given our eclectic diets nowadays, it is
interesting to contemplate eating in the Old World before the exploration
of the Americas.
M.H. Nadel
>
>Mr. Sokolov has also written at least one book, which I have at home. I
>haven't read it yet. I believe it's about the impact New World foodstuffs
>had on the rest of the world. Given our eclectic diets nowadays, it is
>interesting to contemplate eating in the Old World before the exploration
>of the Americas.
I have read it, assuming you're talking about _Why We Eat What We Eat_. (He
also wrote at least one earlier book, titled something like _Fading Feast_,
which is about regional American foods ranging from morels to real
persimmons to Tillamook cheddar.) It goes beyond the impact of New
World food on the Old World and is more about the mixing of New and Old World
foods in both hemispheres. He distinguishes between several types of
mixes - a truly mixed cuisine (Mexico), a primarily Old World cuisine with
New World ingredients (I forget where this was, possible parts of South
America as this is my impression of Argentinian food, for example), a
primarily traditional New World cuisine with Old World names attached to
techniques (the Phillipines - where the Spanish conquest attached names like
'paella' to traditional dishes), etc..
The book is well written and I found it thoroughly enjoyable.
The best book I've ever read on food history and anthropology, though, is
_Consuming Passions_ by Peter Farb and George Armelagos. The focus is
on what foods say about culture, ranging from dietary laws of various cultures
to what cooking methods are used to what eating utensils are preferred.
Miriam Nadel
--
Taureaux piscine is the only sport I have ever encountered that has only one
rule: If you and the bull are in the pool at the same time, you win."
- Calvin Trillin
na...@aerospace.aero.org
Elizabeth Molinaro
Sender:
Reply-To: emol...@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Followup-To:
Distribution:
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Keywords:
In article <17...@drutx.ATT.COM> se...@druhi.att.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul1.1...@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>,
mcol...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Max Coltheart) writes:
>|> Sharon, more history of food, *please* - surely here is where it belongs!
>
[Suggestion to read Raymond Sokolov in Natural History Magazine & his
new book deleted]
Title of the book is something like "Why we eat the things that we
eat", by RS. I just read it and it's excellent: chapters on potatoes, chilis,
tomatoes, etc. Very interesting and extremely germane to the topics recently
discussed here (Indian food/authenticity). For who of you would declare pasta
with a simple tomato sauce unauthentic Italian? And yet neither of these
existed in Italy 1000 years ago. Sokolov describes the migration of food, the
migration of the people is tangent but actually inconsequential (for his
purposes.) I just loved his rather apt and engrossing (a pun) descriptions of
all of the bugs we used to eat. Cockroach tacos and all. Yum yum.
EM
PS: another food book I am currently reading is
"The Florentine Papers" by Thom Someone (?) oops.
Poetic, not a "cruise" through kind of novel.
Gary Heston
> In article <1992Jun29.222750.1@galluj> mawells@galluj writes:
> >
> >BTW, weren't there any cows way back then. I mean if there were cows wouldn
> >that mean there was milk. Not trying to flame or start a flame, but that wo
> >make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong again.
> >
> There most certainly was milk, ever heard of goats? buffalo? sheep? I know
> buffalo are native to North America, so perhaps the American Indians were
> milking buffalos. It's possible.
>
No. Buffalo are way too big, and way to onrey, to permit milking under
the aboriginal situation. The American Indian didn't keep any domestic
animals until the horse was imported, and was quickly adopted for
transportation. The Inuit domesticated dogs, but once more for
transportation rather than food. Although, in an emergency, *anything*
was considered for food.
Keeping domesticated food animals would have been considered lazy and
demeaning among the tribes, until recent decades.
Gary Heston, at home....
ga...@cdthq.uucp
David Adams
>
>
> No. Buffalo are way too big, and way to onrey, to permit milking under
> the aboriginal situation. The American Indian didn't keep any domestic
> animals until the horse was imported, and was quickly adopted for
> transportation. The Inuit domesticated dogs, but once more for
> transportation rather than food. Although, in an emergency, *anything*
> was considered for food.
>
> Keeping domesticated food animals would have been considered lazy and
> demeaning among the tribes, until recent decades.
>
> Gary Heston, at home....
> ga...@cdthq.uucp
Well the Navajo were raising sheep long before the Spanish arrived. One Theory
I saw was that the sheep somehow came from the Vikings. I have some doubt as
Navajo sheep don't look anything like any European sheep. (I think it is
odd to think that a herd of sheep get from Newfoundland to New Mexico
without leaving any herds or trace. with tribes in between. Curious.)
Navajo sheep are quite curious. They have a double fleece and more than one
set of horns. One set curls forwards and the other back. Sometimes they have
six horns.
---
--David C. Adams Statistician Cray Research Inc. dad...@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
If you have a watch, you always know what time it is.
If you have two, you're never quite sure.
Chris Cooke
Navajo sheep don't look anything like any European sheep. (I think it is
odd to think that a herd of sheep get from Newfoundland to New Mexico
without leaving any herds or trace. with tribes in between. Curious.)
Navajo sheep are quite curious. They have a double fleece and more than
one set of horns. One set curls forwards and the other back. Sometimes
they have six horns.
Some breeds of Scottish sheep are like this I think - multiple pairs of horns
curling in all directions.
--
-- Chris. c...@dcs.ed.ac.uk (on Janet, c...@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
john.w.bean
Hey what about deer's milk. I hear it's not bad tasting.
Maybe that's what they used.
just my 0.02 cents worth
jwb