Arithmetic

[James Silverton]

My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
Mom, I don't know!"
--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net

[Howard Brazee]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>Mom, I don't know!"

Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
they vary by county as well as by state.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[James Silverton]

On 10/15/2011 2:09 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
> they vary by county as well as by state.
>

There's no sales tax on food here.

[notbob]

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.food.cooking.]

On 2011-10-15, James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take.

What do you mean, "seems"?

> I live in Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of
> the best schools in the country. I was waiting in line at the
> pharmacy and a woman in front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated)
> daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother asked her to go
> and pay for them. They were $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl
> how much money she wanted: "Aw, Mom, I don't know!"

This has what to do with your first sentence? What's your point? Are
you saying Marin County CA is somehow impacting the quality of
eductation in MD?

What are you smoking this early in the day?

nb

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <uvij979ri1v4lhr2h...@4ax.com>,

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
><not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>Mom, I don't know!"
>
>Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>they vary by county as well as by state.

Not to mention that some states don't charge sales tax for food;
and others charge depending on whether it's to be eaten on the
premises or taken away.

In her place, I would've thought Well, three bucks plus how much?
and said, "Give me a five, that should cover it no matter what
the Governor of Maryland extracts."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Suzanne Blom]

On 10/15/2011 12:34 PM, James Silverton wrote:
> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a
_real_ faint."

[Dave Smith]

On 15/10/2011 3:23 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>
> Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
> decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
> wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
> other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
> says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
> spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a _real_
> faint."

It could be worse. My wife told me about an incident in one of the high
schools in her district. A 50 something male teacher suddenly died
during the morning announcements, just sitting at his desk. A few years
ago I met his daughter. She was the mother of one the young girls in my
riding class.

[Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy]

James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in
news:j7cg6a$5nm$1...@dont-email.me:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be
> being systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I
> live in Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of
> the best schools in the country. I was waiting in line at the
> pharmacy and a woman in front of me sent her 14 year old
> (estimated) daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother
> asked her to go and pay for them. They were $1.50 each and her
> mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw, Mom, I
> don't know!"

I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The first
thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do arithmetic, but how
to _count_. Specifically, how to count money. Many, even most, don't
really need formal training as such. But many *do*.

Always did get surprised smiles from older customers, though, when
I'd count change back the old fashioned way.

--
Terry Austin

Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole. - David
Bilek

Yeah, I had Terry confused with Hannibal Lecter. - Mike Schilling

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[sf]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

I don't like the "new" curriculum either. Unfortunately inexperienced
teachers don't know any better and do as they're told. If she's in
Marin, the assumption probably is that parents will be proactive and
fill the gaps with Kumon or another after school program.


--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Exactly. One of the things my dad had to contend with in his classes at
the Pharmacy college was people who would be able to handle numbers
perfectly, calculate things on tests like no tomorrow, and then when
confronted with actual drugs and such would have no idea what to do when
asked to make up some actual mixture. They had learned a skill in a
classroom and they somehow never had EVER understood that this skill
could be used outside the classroom.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

One of my best friends died at the age of (IIRC) 39, dropped dead of a
heart attack right in front of his 7-year-old daughter, no warning.

[Brooklyn1]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>Mom, I don't know!"

Proves that for a female she's not too swift, most would say oh a $20
should cover it.

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

I saw some quote recently on facebook which said something like "We
hate math, say 4 in 10, a majority of Americans"

http://tinyurl.com/4ywhqw7

[George]

On 10/15/2011 2:09 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton
> <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
> they vary by county as well as by state.
>

Unfortunately lots of people don't care to learn or something for some
reason and depend on others way too much regarding their finances. Who
ever thought we would reach a time when if we ask "how much is that?" we
are asked to sit down so someone can enter info into a computer to
determine how much we can afford?

[Kalmia]

On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.

[Ranée at Arabian Knits]

In article <j7cg6a$5nm$1...@dont-email.me>,

James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> Mom, I don't know!"

I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.

--
Regards,
Ranee @ Arabian Knits

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/

[Bob Terwilliger]

notbob replied:

>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take.
>
> What do you mean, "seems"?
>
>> I live in Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of
>> the best schools in the country. I was waiting in line at the
>> pharmacy and a woman in front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated)
>> daughter to select a couple of pastries. Her mother asked her to go
>> and pay for them. They were $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl
>> how much money she wanted: "Aw, Mom, I don't know!"
>
> This has what to do with your first sentence? What's your point? Are
> you saying Marin County CA is somehow impacting the quality of
> eductation in MD?
>
> What are you smoking this early in the day?

He's not smoking. He's waging CLASS WARFARE. Haven't you been watching *any*
of the GOP presidential candidates?

Bob

[J. Clarke]

In article <e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
@f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, tween...@mypacks.net says...

I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
doing it.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <e690fe1b-512c-4b04...@f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,

I used to live in Concord, California, a place that combined the
worst traits of suburbia and Tobacco Road. I visited a couple of
other people's houses. The only book to be seen in most of them
was a Bible. (Hey, if it was the KJV, it would at least good
literature.) At least one had a half-dozen Readers' Digest
Condensed Books. /sigh

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Plot's a little weak, but geez, what a cast of characters....
(yeah, that joke is a lot older than I am, but still a good one)

[Dan Abel]

In article <MPG.29040323...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,

Just tell 'em your Ipod was broken!

:-)

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:22:47 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
<arabia...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
>I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
>understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.

A young man taking a GED course asked me to check his math paper. I
was astonished at the questions asked and problems given. They
offered multiple choice in many cases. On some problems, you chose
the formula from a multiple choice list, but did not have to actually
solve the problem. This is supposed to be high school level, but it
was math that we could do in fifth grade.

[Polly Esther]

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" <arabia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:arabianknits-60E4...@news.eternal-september.org...

> In article <j7cg6a$5nm$1...@dont-email.me>,
> James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
> I do not like the methods most commonly taught in schools nowadays.
> I think they unnecessarily confuse the students and don't teach a good
> understanding of basic mathematics to build on for higher math later.

> Ranee @ Arabian Knits

Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
right
"Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
gozentas. Polly

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:24:40 -0500, "Polly Esther"
<Poll...@cableone.net> wrote:



>Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> right
>"Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>gozentas. Polly

Maybe they did. Some minds just don't grasp math well, no matter how
it is taught. I recall my daughter learning 3 + 4 = 7 but did not
grasp that 4 + 3 = 7 also.

People lacking math skills are often very strong with artistic skills
though.

[Paul Colquhoun]

A few years back I was on a family holiday. My 3 year old (at the time)
niece walks into the room and sees a phone book on the table. She went
up to it, flipped through the pages, and announced loudly "Good Book!"
Everyone in the room laughed, so she did it again later.

Her taste in reading material has improved greatly since then.


--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

[Ophelia]

"Polly Esther" <Poll...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:9fv1av...@mid.individual.net...

Not just in UK then ...
--
http://www.shop.helpforheros.org.uk

[Walter Bushell]

In article <1bobxh7...@pfeifferfamily.net>,

And has the phone number of every single woman in town. (But not
anymore, with so many people only having cell phones.)

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

[Walter Bushell]

In article <9fv1av...@mid.individual.net>,

"Polly Esther" <Poll...@cableone.net> wrote:

> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> right
> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> gozentas. Polly

What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
math problems?

[J. Clarke]

In article <9fv1av...@mid.individual.net>, Poll...@cableone.net
says...

Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
"how to push buttons on a calculator".

[Dave Smith]

On 16/10/2011 9:11 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>> gozentas. Polly
>
> Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
> "how to push buttons on a calculator".

I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.


I confess to having trouble with square roots. I had a lot of trouble
at university when I had to take statistics and probability because the
formulae for statistical analysis typically involved calculating a lot
of squares and square roots. At that time, a pocket calculator that
would add, subtract, multiply and divide was about $250, which was
several weeks pay. The next year the Pysch department had a calculator
room where they has a bunch of Wang calculators available for student
use. I used to get so bogged down in the mechanics of the arithmetic
that it was hard to understand the math. Using calculators made it
understandable.

[Pico Rico]

"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:OzBmq.173781$ba5.1...@unlimited.newshosting.com...

didn't you have a CRC book? or a slide rule?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <proto-43C6A0....@news.panix.com>,

Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <9fv1av...@mid.individual.net>,
> "Polly Esther" <Poll...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
>> right
>> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>> gozentas. Polly
>
>What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
>math problems?

How did web site monitoring software get into the discussion?

/googles, gets a dozen or so usages of "gozinta"

Oh, I see, your tongue is in your cheek. Try "goes into" as a
childish description of division.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <Lt5wC...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article <proto-43C6A0....@news.panix.com>,
> Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <9fv1av...@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Polly Esther" <Poll...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
> >> right
> >> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> >> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> >> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> >> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> >> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> >> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> >> gozentas. Polly
> >
> >What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
> >math problems?
>
> How did web site monitoring software get into the discussion?
>
> /googles, gets a dozen or so usages of "gozinta"
>
> Oh, I see, your tongue is in your cheek. Try "goes into" as a
> childish description of division.

Hey, someone who runs an internet business or even a blog might very
well be more familiar with the program. I don't remember "gozinta" from
my el-ed days, but they were many moons ago.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <OzBmq.173781$ba5.1...@unlimited.newshosting.com>,

Well.... I think we all have our problems with math or other
subjects. Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).

Now I'm going to talk about my Physics final: if you've seen it
already, hit 'n' now.

The College of Letters and Sciences had these damn breadth
requirements. People majoring in what my husband the engineer
calls "fuzzy studies" still had to take a certain number of
science courses. I had already done a year of biology, but no,
they wanted a semester of physics too, and they had a course that
they called "Physics for Non-Majors" and everybody else called
"Bonehead Physics."

It chanced that another young woman living in the same rooming
house with me was taking the same section of B.P. that I was: the
same (boring) professor giving the lectures, the same (inept)
T.A. assigning and collecting homework. So my housemate and I
would sit in the kitchen every Wednesday night doing our
homework: she knew how to use a slide rule and I did not. (No
calculators in 1961). So we split the work: I'd set up the
equations, and she'd do the arithmetic and we'd both turn in the
same answers.

Midterm: fairly short and manageable. Then came the final: two
solid hours of sitting in a huge hall solving physics problems.
Without my housemate and her slide rule, I had to do the
arithmetic by sweat and scratch paper, and I knew I wouldn't be
able to get it all done. But I thought, This is a course in
physics, not arithmetic or even algebra. I'll set up all the
equations and then go back and solve as many as I have time for.

Came the final grades. I got an A; my housemate got a C.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <j7epnm$9p3$1...@dont-email.me>,

Dave doesn't say what his major was, but I can think of a lot of
them that would require a statistics course without plunging deep
enough into the sciences that familiarity with either of those
things would be required.

Particularly considering that I once worked for a person whose life
work was collecting, tabulating, and laboriously publishing
volumes of the latest statistics on everybody else's research
into what caused cancer in rats, mice, and so on. She'd been
doing this for years. Finally somebody from CRC got in touch
with her and suggested she publish with them.

She had never heard of the Chemical Rubber Company and its many
and varied reference books. I took her up a floor to the
Biochemistry Library and showed her an entire aisle in the stacks
filled with CRC publications.

I quit working for her shortly after that, for she was a
carborundum-coated bitch. So I don't know if she wound up
publishing with CRC or not. Nor care.

[Howard Brazee]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:57:57 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>Not to mention that some states don't charge sales tax for food;
>and others charge depending on whether it's to be eaten on the
>premises or taken away.

Or "is this to be used as mouthwash (a cosmetic), or gargle (a
medicine)".

>In her place, I would've thought Well, three bucks plus how much?
>and said, "Give me a five, that should cover it no matter what
>the Governor of Maryland extracts."

That's what I would do too.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Wayne Throop]

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Well.... I think we all have our problems with math or other

: subjects. Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
: further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).

Well technically, algebra shouldn't have numbers either, or not very
many, and not the primary focus. I mean, even geometry has numbers
(ie, triangles have three sides, three is a number, etc etc) and algebra
should have few more than that.

On the other hand, the idea *is* (usually) to come up with a plan
for what arithmetic you want to do later, so I guess I can see it
as a stumbling block.

However... I too was noticeably poor at arithmetic as such, and found
it a horrible drudgery to boot, and so I thought of algebra as a form of
judo to use arithmetic against itself, and figure out how to to the least
amount of actual arithmetic possible. For just one illustrative example,
"cancelling numbers" in either fractions or equations.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <MPG.29050545d...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Janet <H...@invalid.net> wrote:
>In article <proto-1AD2B6....@news.panix.com>, pr...@panix.com
>says...

> I don't remember "gozinta" from
>> my el-ed days, but they were many moons ago.
>

> Elementary school division. 2 gozinta 9, 4 times, remainder 1.

I didn't experience it in my own school career, but I'd read
jokes about it. "What did you learn in school today, Johnny?"
"We did gozintas." "WHAT?" et cetera....

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:08:35 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:



>
>I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
>adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
>the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
>convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
>the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.

Using a machine will give you an accurate number with minimal effort.
The problem though, is that you do not always have access to the
calculator. If you cannot do even simple math without one, you are
pretty much screwed.

You are also vulnerable to others cheating you. If you just agreed to
$20 to cut the lawn, $6 to take out the trash and $13 to trim the
hedges, if you can't do simple math you may not realized you got
cheated when the handyman asked for $62.

[Dave Smith]

On 16/10/2011 12:40 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 10:08:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> I found that my adding skills improved immensely when I was sing an
>> adding machine. I would enter the numbers in a column and usually had
>> the running total in my head by the time I hit the enter key. I am not
>> convinced that using an adding machine or calculator is any worse than
>> the rote learning used in learning adding and the multiplication tables.
>
> Using a machine will give you an accurate number with minimal effort.
> The problem though, is that you do not always have access to the
> calculator. If you cannot do even simple math without one, you are
> pretty much screwed.

I didn't say that it should be taught in lieu of traditional adding. It
was my experience that when I was using an adding machine I was adding
the numbers on my head and checking my results against the machine.
Between that and playing cribbage, I got really fast at adding. It only
works for 2 or 3 columns. Get into the hundreds and thousands, or a
bunch of decimals and I need to work it out.

> You are also vulnerable to others cheating you. If you just agreed to
> $20 to cut the lawn, $6 to take out the trash and $13 to trim the
> hedges, if you can't do simple math you may not realized you got
> cheated when the handyman asked for $62.

I'm not. If I buy something in a store and the clerk rings up the total
and hand him /her money, I know before they punch it in how much change
I am owed. FWIW... I like to use up my pocket change rather than get a
bunch more. I will hand over a bunch of coins in order to get less coins
back.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <13187...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>: Well.... I think we all have our problems with math or other
>: subjects. Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
>: further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).
>
>Well technically, algebra shouldn't have numbers either, or not very
>many, and not the primary focus. I mean, even geometry has numbers
>(ie, triangles have three sides, three is a number, etc etc) and algebra
>should have few more than that.
>
>On the other hand, the idea *is* (usually) to come up with a plan
>for what arithmetic you want to do later, so I guess I can see it
>as a stumbling block.

But, my dear sir, what arithmetic I *wanted* to do later was none
whatever.

It's gotten worse, too, with the effect of the CFS over the
years. One of the things CFS wipes out is short-term memory, and
when it comes to remembering numbers ... well, I can't remember a
seven-digit telephone number long enough to look away from the
paper or screen where it's written down long enough to punch it
in. Of late I've had to do some inputting from PayPal invoice
numbers into a database (no, there's no way to copy/paste them)
and I've found I can remember three, or in a pinch, four digits
for long enough to look from the printout to the input screen and
type 'em in. The invoice numbers have ten digits. Three passes
for each one.

/sigh

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:07:57 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:



>
>I didn't say that it should be taught in lieu of traditional adding. It
>was my experience that when I was using an adding machine I was adding
>the numbers on my head and checking my results against the machine.
>Between that and playing cribbage, I got really fast at adding. It only
>works for 2 or 3 columns. Get into the hundreds and thousands, or a
>bunch of decimals and I need to work it out.
>
>

You didn't say it, but it seems to be one of the methods used more and
more, to rely on a calculator rather than the brain. Playing
cribbage is one reason the brain is better than a machine. Things
like that keep you sharper, as you have experienced. I don't know
that future generations will have that skill so much.

[James Silverton]

On 10/16/2011 1:58 PM, Andy wrote:

> Programming robots to do boring repetitive things faster with exacting
> precision that humans can't possibly do is so much more rewarding!!!
>
> Teach a robot to do that and we're all out of a job!
>
> Blame Henry Ford.
>
> Andy
> I'm not lazy. I'm an effiency expert!

A long, long time ago, I was treasurer of a student society and our
constitution required an annual audit. An accounting firm owned by an
alumnus did it for free but what impressed me was not only that the
accountant hand added figures but did two columns simultaneously.

I later had a summer job that required some statistical calculations and
I too added columns of figures by hand. I got remarkably fast at it with
practice but only one column at a time. Not having need for it, I've
lost that facility. I guess I'd use Excel these days.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net

[The Cook]

When my younger son was working as a manager at one of the fast food
chains he said that they sent people out to collect money for the
drive -thru orders. So few could make change that they printed up a
sheet with how much change for various order amounts.


When he was elementary school the principal started a program of "math
facts." Every Friday morning all the classes did timed math
problems. Don't know exactly how they started out but when a child
completed a level they got the next level the next week. The results
were posted in front of the office for all to see.

I refused to let my child have a calculator until he had finished all
the levels.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

[Robert Carnegie]

On Oct 16, 5:47 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <1318780...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thro...@sheol.org> wrote:
> >: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)

> >: Well....  I think we all have our problems with math or other
> >: subjects.  Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
> >: further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).
>
> >Well technically, algebra shouldn't have numbers either, or not very
> >many, and not the primary focus.  I mean, even geometry has numbers
> >(ie, triangles have three sides, three is a number, etc etc) and algebra
> >should have few more than that.
>
> >On the other hand, the idea *is* (usually) to come up with a plan
> >for what arithmetic you want to do later, so I guess I can see it
> >as a stumbling block.
>
> But, my dear sir, what arithmetic I *wanted* to do later was none
> whatever.
>
> It's gotten worse, too, with the effect of the CFS over the
> years.  One of the things CFS wipes out is short-term memory, and
> when it comes to remembering numbers ... well, I can't remember a
> seven-digit telephone number long enough to look away from the
> paper or screen where it's written down long enough to punch it
> in.  Of late I've had to do some inputting from PayPal invoice
> numbers into a database (no, there's no way to copy/paste them)
> and I've found I can remember three, or in a pinch, four digits
> for long enough to look from the printout to the input screen and
> type 'em in.  The invoice numbers have ten digits.  Three passes
> for each one.
>
> /sigh

My god, that sounds... normal.

[Wayne Throop]

:: One of the things CFS wipes out is short-term memory [...]
:: I can't remember a seven-digit telephone number long enough to look

:: away from the paper or screen where it's written down long enough to
:: punch it in.

: Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
: My god, that sounds... normal.

I've noticed the same thing; I used to be able commit 10 or more
digits to short term memory quite easily. But nowdays, I'm lucky to
manage 4 or six. And I can't even blame it on CFS. Of course, one
thing I *do* attribute it to is the same thing I attribute my horrid
handwriting to... namely, simple disuse over the last few decades.
What with word processors and cut and paste in most apps, I rarely have
occasion to commit numbers to memory, or write things out longhand.

[James Silverton]

It's true and remarkable how few numbers I have got committed to memory.
I usually look them up in a password protected file. Offhand, I can only
think of a few: some passwords, some ten-digit phone numbers (all phone
numbers are 10-digits around here), my social security number and my
14-digit library card number that I need to access parts of the web site.

[Pico Rico]

>
> Well of course they have. "Math" in school today seems to be mostly
> "how to push buttons on a calculator".

yep, nothing like knowing how to do it without the fancy gadgets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfq5kju627c

[Wayne Throop]

:: I've noticed the same thing; I used to be able commit 10 or more

:: digits to short term memory quite easily. But nowdays, I'm lucky to
:: manage 4 or six. And I can't even blame it on CFS. Of course, one
:: thing I *do* attribute it to is the same thing I attribute my horrid
:: handwriting to... namely, simple disuse over the last few decades.
:: What with word processors and cut and paste in most apps, I rarely
:: have occasion to commit numbers to memory, or write things out
:: longhand.

: James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net>
: It's true and remarkable how few numbers I have got committed to

: memory. I usually look them up in a password protected file.
: Offhand, I can only think of a few: some passwords, some ten-digit
: phone numbers (all phone numbers are 10-digits around here), my social
: security number and my 14-digit library card number that I need to
: access parts of the web site.

That's a slightly different issue: long term memory. Passwords and
telephone numbers and social security numbers I all have in long-term
memory. My SS# in particular was burned into my memory decades ago,
because when I enrolled in university, I had to fill it out onto about
25 or so forms over a period of two days. I'll never be rid of it now.

As to phone numbers... I found my current phone number easy to remember...
because by coincidence it is the same last four digits as the phone number
of my parents' house when I was growing up, transposed; 2936 instead of 9263.
And of course the area code and exchange are remembered independently,
and for other reasons.

And, with enough exposure, I can commit 8-character randomized passwords
to memory, or phone numbers plus extensions, and so on and so forth.
But... not short-term memory any more. No "glance at the number and
remember 12 digits for 10 minutes" for me anymore. The last neuron
to go should remember to turn out the lights, I suppose. That'd
be a long-term memory, hopefully...

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:43:34 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:

>As to phone numbers... I found my current phone number easy to remember...
>because by coincidence it is the same last four digits as the phone number
>of my parents' house when I was growing up, transposed; 2936 instead of 9263.
>And of course the area code and exchange are remembered independently,
>and for other reasons.

I know one phone number very well - the one I haven't had since the
1950s.

[Pico Rico]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:9ajm97l6ujc5vvqmf...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:43:34 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
> wrote:
>
>>As to phone numbers... I found my current phone number easy to remember...
>>because by coincidence it is the same last four digits as the phone number
>>of my parents' house when I was growing up, transposed; 2936 instead of
>>9263.
>>And of course the area code and exchange are remembered independently,
>>and for other reasons.
>
> I know one phone number very well - the one I haven't had since the
> 1950s.
>

I remember the license plates of the cars we had when I was kid. Haven't
seen or had some of those plates for decades.

[Jesper Lauridsen]

On 2011-10-15, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:34:16 -0400, James Silverton

><not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>Mom, I don't know!"
>

> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
> they vary by county as well as by state.

Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
label?

[Pico Rico]

"Jesper Lauridsen" <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote in message
news:j7fnr5$gm0$1...@dont-email.me...

how would you win that prize?

[Kalmia]

On Oct 15, 9:45 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482d...@f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kalmia  <tweeny90...@mypacks.net> wrote:
> >On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>

> >wrote:
> >> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> >> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> >> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> >> Mom, I don't know!"
>

> >A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> >bring a book from home to discuss.  Three kids toted in the phone
> >book.  Sad to think that that was the only book in the house.  I'll
> >bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
>
> I used to live in Concord, California, a place that combined the
> worst traits of suburbia and Tobacco Road.  I visited a couple of
> other people's houses.  The only book to be seen in most of them
> was a Bible.  (Hey, if it was the KJV, it would at least good
> literature.)  At least one had a half-dozen Readers' Digest
> Condensed Books.  /sigh
>
> --


Give 'em a beak. The Bible probably lay there as their indication of
religious belief. I doubt that too many read the KJV strictly from
the standpoint of its being literature. Be that as it may, it sure
beats a stack of skin mags or gothic romances strewn around.

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <j7fnr5$gm0$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wouldn't it be great if there were some way to know the base price of
an item *before* getting it scanned by the cashier?

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

[Dave Smith]

On 16/10/2011 7:03 PM, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>
>>
>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>
> Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
> label?

They do that in most of Europe. If something is $10... that is what you
pay. In many places service is included in the menu price along with the
taxes. Most North Americans would rather delude themselves into
thinking they are getting a better deal the price of their entree is $15
and they have to pay another $5 in taxes and tip than if the menu price
is the $20 they are going to pay anyway. It is always a rude surprise
to see how much a dinner out adds up to when you total the individual
dishes and drinks, and even worse by the time you get hit with the taxes
and leave a tip. $8-9 for a hamburger platter and by the time you get
out of their your dinner for two has cost close to $50 instead of $20.

[Pico Rico]

"Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:j7fof7$1jj$1...@reader1.panix.com...

>
> In article <j7fnr5$gm0$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Jesper Lauridsen <uselastname...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 2011-10-15, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
>>label?
>
> Wouldn't it be great if there were some way to know the base price of
> an item *before* getting it scanned by the cashier?

some stores have scanners scattered around so you can scan an item to check
its price.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <j7fo8n$o23$1...@dont-email.me>,

He meant "price," of course. But they don't print the price of
anything on the item any more, just a bar code that the cashier's
scanner can read. This means that if the price on something
changes all they have to redo is the shelf labels.

(Of course, this also means that they can say something is on
sale at 89 cents ["formerly 1.29!"] when the actual former price
was like 79. They depend on people having short memories,
particularly for numbers, and they certainly have my number.)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <bda1d8f7-51fa-4f96...@hv4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Yeah, well, for me it didn't use to be. I had, for about a year,
a "temp" job working in a shipping department, and what I did all
day long was to match shipping orders with copies of the
carrier's records, and I could keep a ten-digit number in my head
for long enough to find the matching one, say "Aha!" and staple
'em together and put 'em, on the To File stack. Couldn't do that
now.

It was a nice place, really; family-owned, paternalistic; they
provided free platters of pastries whenever anyone had a birthday
or a baby or an anything, and my boss had handwriting that looked
like Tengwar. (I could read it. Few could.)

[Robert Bannister]

They do in countries where the tax is same in every state, although if
our illustrious state leaders have their way, things could easily change.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 16/10/11 7:57 AM, Kalmia wrote:
> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James Silverton<not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>

> wrote:
>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>> Mom, I don't know!"
>
>

> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
> book.

Our newest set of telephone directories has been reduced drastically in
size to save money, so that now only kids with young eyes can read the
damned things.


--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, tween...@mypacks.net says...

>>
>> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James Silverton<not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>>> Mom, I don't know!"
>>
>>
>> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
>> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone

>> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
>> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
>

> I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
> doing it.
>
>

People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
most of them more than once is quite depressing.

--
Robert Bannister

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:03:01 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
<rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:

>> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>> they vary by county as well as by state.
>
>Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
>label?

I can see one big downside to this and other smaller downsides.

The big downside is I like us to know what we are paying in taxes.
Sure that doesn't happen - the companies we buy from are paying all
sorts of taxes with money that is included in the price. At least
we don't have VATs in the US (although 9-9-9 has what appears to be a
VAT).

And go buy a book with a price printed on its cover. Do we want a
different printing for each tax district?

[Robert Bannister]

On 16/10/11 10:02 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article<proto-43C6A0....@news.panix.com>,
> Walter Bushell<pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article<9fv1av...@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Polly Esther"<Poll...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Granddaughter said to me: Four is bigger than three, right?
>>> right
>>> "Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
>>> That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
>>> handy. My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
>>> Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
>>> and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
>>> ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
>>> gozentas. Polly
>>
>> What has web site monitoring software got to do with this type of simple
>> math problems?
>
> How did web site monitoring software get into the discussion?
>
> /googles, gets a dozen or so usages of "gozinta"
>
> Oh, I see, your tongue is in your cheek. Try "goes into" as a
> childish description of division.
>

We live and learn. I had never come across that usage.

--
Robert Bannister

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:45:05 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>
>(Of course, this also means that they can say something is on
>sale at 89 cents ["formerly 1.29!"] when the actual former price
>was like 79. They depend on people having short memories,
>particularly for numbers, and they certainly have my number.)

Sometimes if you buy a 40 cent item it's in the 1 cent tax range, but
two are in the 3 cent tax range according to the tax charts. Adding
up individual taxes on items only approximate the total tax.

[Robert Bannister]

On 17/10/11 5:32 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:43:34 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
> wrote:
>
>> As to phone numbers... I found my current phone number easy to remember...
>> because by coincidence it is the same last four digits as the phone number
>> of my parents' house when I was growing up, transposed; 2936 instead of 9263.
>> And of course the area code and exchange are remembered independently,
>> and for other reasons.
>
> I know one phone number very well - the one I haven't had since the
> 1950s.
>

I know the one we had then too, but am frequently stumped when asked for
the number I've had for the last 20 years.

--
Robert Bannister

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:37:45 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
>> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
>> book.
>
>Our newest set of telephone directories has been reduced drastically in
>size to save money, so that now only kids with young eyes can read the
>damned things.

I tried for a while to get the phone book companies to not deliver
phone books, but they make their money by circulation. So now, I
deliver mine to The Gabriel Society where they use them for orphaned
pet birds. Phone books have been replaced by computers in my house.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:48:04 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>> I know one phone number very well - the one I haven't had since the
>> 1950s.
>>
>
>I know the one we had then too, but am frequently stumped when asked for
>the number I've had for the last 20 years.

When I was a bachelor I didn't know my phone number. After all, if I
tried to call it, either nobody would be home, or the line would be
busy...


My son-in-law knows my son's phone number. It was the one he and my
daughter shared when they were in high school.

[ItsJoanNotJoann]

On Oct 15, 11:10 pm, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:24:40 -0500, "Polly Esther"

>
> <Polly...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >Granddaughter said to me:  Four is bigger than three, right?
> >    right
> >"Then how can 1/3 be bigger than 1/4?"
> >    That was easy enough to demonstrate with pies, bricks or whatever was
> >handy.  My question is - why didn't her teachers 'splain that better?
> >    Now and then I teach a little quilting (which involves a Lot of math)
> >and am no longer surprised that the young folks don't know how to use a
> >ruler, can't add 'in their heads' and seem to have totally missed the
> >gozentas.  Polly
>

> Maybe they did.  Some minds just don't grasp math well, no matter how
> it is taught.  I recall my daughter learning 3 + 4 = 7 but did not
> grasp that 4 + 3 = 7 also.  
>
> People lacking math skills are often very strong with artistic skills
> though.  

>
>
My dad and my grandmother, my mother's mother, were both astonishing
in math. I, unfortunately, did not get that gene as math has always
been a struggle for me.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:10:29 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
<tween...@mypacks.net> wrote in
<news:4bd5b938-eef4-42c2...@v11g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written,rec.food.cooking:

> On Oct 15, 9:45 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

[...]

>> I used to live in Concord, California, a place that combined the
>> worst traits of suburbia and Tobacco Road.  I visited a couple of
>> other people's houses.  The only book to be seen in most of them
>> was a Bible.  (Hey, if it was the KJV, it would at least good
>> literature.)  At least one had a half-dozen Readers' Digest
>> Condensed Books.  /sigh

> Give 'em a beak. The Bible probably lay there as their indication of
> religious belief. I doubt that too many read the KJV strictly from
> the standpoint of its being literature. Be that as it may, it sure
> beats a stack of skin mags or gothic romances strewn around.

I disagree. It loses badly to the stack of gothic romances,
whose owner evidently reads for pleasure. As the only book
in the house it's at best about on a par with the skin mags.

Brian

[Bryan]

On Oct 16, 7:35 pm, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:03:01 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
>

> <rorsc...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
> >> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
> >> they vary by county as well as by state.
>
> >Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
> >label?
>
> I can see one big downside to this and other smaller downsides.
>
> The big downside is I like us to know what we are paying in taxes.
> Sure that doesn't happen - the companies we buy from are paying all
> sorts of taxes with money that is included in the price.    At least
> we don't have VATs in the US (although 9-9-9 has what appears to be a
> VAT).
>

That crazy 9-9-9 scheme is going to tank Cain. The only one of the
current bunch who has any likelihood of getting the nomination is
Romney. Cain could probably win Iowa, Romney will win NH, then it's
on to SC, where the GOP voters are going to have to choose between a
Black and a Mormon. The GOP convention could end up broken, and could
end up picking a nominee who is not currently in the race. We 99%ers
will end up voting for Obama, even though some of us see him as the
lesser of 2 evils. Similarly, the Tea Party folks will vote GOP, even
if the nominee is someone like Romney.
The most likely outcome is the GOP picks up a few Senate seats, and
loses several House seats, and that Obama is re-elected. Capitalism
is running amok, and the finance sector has shown itself to be
villainous. The Tea Party is pro-greed, and the Occupy Wall Street
(99% movement) is anti-greed.

--Bryan

[Dave Smith]

On 16/10/2011 9:12 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

>
> I tried for a while to get the phone book companies to not deliver
> phone books, but they make their money by circulation. So now, I
> deliver mine to The Gabriel Society where they use them for orphaned
> pet birds. Phone books have been replaced by computers in my house.

It doesn't seem that long ago that we relied on phone books to look up
numbers and looked forward to the annual delivery because they had all
the new numbers for people who had moved. It was frustrating to have to
keep the old book and sometimes not be able to find an updated number
because you had the old book and not the new now. Now that there are
online phone directory services I seem to be getting newer but thinner
phone books every 3 or 4 months. The problem is that they only have the
primary telephone company numbers and not the cell phones, which a lot
of people are now using instead of land lines.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9g1bch...@mid.individual.net>,

The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
vote for it.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9g1br6...@mid.individual.net>,

Well, we're the reverse side of the people who have no books in
their homes except a Bible or a phone book or maybe some Readers'
Digests.

There was a New Yorker cartoon once upon a time. Leasing agent
leading a man and woman through an empty apartment in the hopes
that they will rent it. Every wall is lined with (empty)
bookcases. Man, looking about him, says, "What the hell kind of
people lived here, anyway?"

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9g1but...@mid.individual.net>,

I, as I said upthread somewhere, only heard it in jokes told by
other people.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <240n9796dakjc48pr...@4ax.com>,

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:37:45 +0800, Robert Bannister
><rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
>>> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone
>>> book.
>>
>>Our newest set of telephone directories has been reduced drastically in
>>size to save money, so that now only kids with young eyes can read the
>>damned things.
>
>
>I tried for a while to get the phone book companies to not deliver
>phone books, but they make their money by circulation. So now, I
>deliver mine to The Gabriel Society where they use them for orphaned
>pet birds. Phone books have been replaced by computers in my house.
>

Gee, just like the Duncans.

http://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/zits/s-962200

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <a8515fd4-b68d-47ba...@v38g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,

Bryan <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 16, 7:35 pm, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:03:01 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
>>
>> <rorsc...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>> >> Lots of people don't know how to calculate sales taxes, especially if
>> >> they vary by county as well as by state.
>>
>> >Wouldn't it be great if stores printed the prize after tax on the
>> >label?
>>
>> I can see one big downside to this and other smaller downsides.
>>
>> The big downside is I like us to know what we are paying in taxes.
>> Sure that doesn't happen - the companies we buy from are paying all
>> sorts of taxes with money that is included in the price.    At least
>> we don't have VATs in the US (although 9-9-9 has what appears to be a
>> VAT).
>>
>That crazy 9-9-9 scheme is going to tank Cain. The only one of the
>current bunch who has any likelihood of getting the nomination is
>Romney. Cain could probably win Iowa, Romney will win NH, then it's
>on to SC, where the GOP voters are going to have to choose between a
>Black and a Mormon. The GOP convention could end up broken, and could
>end up picking a nominee who is not currently in the race. We 99%ers
>will end up voting for Obama, even though some of us see him as the
>lesser of 2 evils.

Isn't that what a large percentage of voters do every election?

I remember in the 1970s (I forget what campaign, but it was
shortly after Star Wars was released), a large button that said

DARTH VADER FOR PRESIDENT
when you're tired of voting
for the lesser of two evils

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:57:28 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

> Well.... I think we all have our problems with math or other
> subjects. Arithmetic was always my bugbear, and I never got any
> further than Algebra 1 (geometry was ok; no numbers).

Algebra isn't really arithmetic, although it is mathematics. I'm
really good at math but I'm not wild about arithmetic. I could derive
and solve partial differential equations but I struggled to keep my
checkbook balanced. When we married, I made a deal with my husband.
If he'd handle the money, make the investments, and keep my checkbook
balanced, I'd do all of the stereotypically female housework (albeit
with a cleaning lady to help). It's been almost forty-one years and
we're still doing it that way, although I haven't run into a PDE since
I retired.

Mary "Which is OK by me."
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://digitalknitter.blogspot.com/

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:49:11 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

> It's true and remarkable how few numbers I have got committed to memory.
> I usually look them up in a password protected file. Offhand, I can only
> think of a few: some passwords, some ten-digit phone numbers (all phone
> numbers are 10-digits around here), my social security number and my
> 14-digit library card number that I need to access parts of the web site.

I can still remember my UCLA student number, last used in about '71,
but auto-dial has wiped most phone numbers from my mind. I know my
driver's license number, but I've had the same one since I was 16.
It's not just age, it's usage.

Mary "I spend much less time calling people now."

[Pico Rico]

"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:Lt6rz...@kithrup.com...

that is a ten YEAR increase of one percent in the city sales tax. Not even
Vallejo would be so stupid as to try for a ten percent city sales tax rate.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <9g1but...@mid.individual.net>,

It sounds like some kind of Japanese analog of a won ton.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

[Paul Colquhoun]

And then it turned out that even Darth Vader was the lesser of two
evils.


--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

[Walter Bushell]

In article <s70n9753pmi9qmc6g...@4ax.com>,

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:48:04 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >> I know one phone number very well - the one I haven't had since the
> >> 1950s.
> >>
> >
> >I know the one we had then too, but am frequently stumped when asked for
> >the number I've had for the last 20 years.
>
> When I was a bachelor I didn't know my phone number. After all, if I
> tried to call it, either nobody would be home, or the line would be
> busy...
>
>
> My son-in-law knows my son's phone number. It was the one he and my
> daughter shared when they were in high school.

One phone number I had that I never bothered to remember, because I only
used it for dial up, never gave it out, never wanted to call it.

[djinn]

On Oct 16, 3:36 am, Dave Smith <adavid.sm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 15/10/2011 3:23 PM, Suzanne Blom wrote:
>
>
>
> > Or perhaps it's like the professor teaching a first aid class. He
> > decided to have the students practice what they were learning so he
> > wipes his brow and collapses on the stage. The students scream and do
> > other useless things, but none of them goes to help. He gets up and
> > says, "What have you learned if you can't handle a simple fainting
> > spell?" His best pupil says, "But, professor, we thought it was a _real_
> > faint."
>
> It could be worse. My wife told me about an incident in one of the high
> schools in her district. A 50 something male teacher suddenly died
> during the morning announcements, just sitting at his desk. A few years
> ago I met his daughter. She was the mother of one the young girls in my
> riding class.

Or better. A friend was one of a class of nurses who had a visiting
professor. The professor starting showing some physical distress, they
had him down with an ambulance rolling within a couple of minutes, and
under treatment for his heart attack within a half hour or so. No
lasting aftereffects.

[Dan Abel]

In article <Lt6s8...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

Probably some pervert librarian. I got this from a librarian:

http://bookshelfporn.com/

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net

[Dan Abel]

In article <j7g2uc$e5a$1...@dont-email.me>,

"Pico Rico" <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:

> "Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
> news:Lt6rz...@kithrup.com...

> > The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
> > temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
> > Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
> > it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
> > percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
> > vote for it.
>
> that is a ten YEAR increase of one percent in the city sales tax. Not even
> Vallejo would be so stupid as to try for a ten percent city sales tax rate.

Yup:

http://www.ci.vallejo.ca.us/GovSite/default.asp?serviceID1=981&Frame=L1

"If Measure B passes, the sales tax rate would increase by 1.0% (from
7.375% to 8.375%) for a period of 10 years. This represents a one cent
increase for every dollar spent on a taxable item."

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 01:25:54 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
>temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
>Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
>it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
>percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
>vote for it.

A lot of communities are raising the sin taxes - tax alcohol. They
are easy to pass, but make them more dependent upon sin.

[Howard Brazee]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 01:31:31 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>There was a New Yorker cartoon once upon a time. Leasing agent
>leading a man and woman through an empty apartment in the hopes
>that they will rent it. Every wall is lined with (empty)
>bookcases. Man, looking about him, says, "What the hell kind of
>people lived here, anyway?"

I know people who love such bookcases - for a wide variety of stuff
other than books.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <j7g2uc$e5a$1...@dont-email.me>,
Pico Rico <Pico...@nonospam.com> wrote:
>

I sit corrected. Numbers, as all here know, are not my forte.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <99df9a40-ff65-4c87...@p20g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,

Hooray, some good news for a change.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <dabel-9A20C0....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au>,

Very nice. I wish I had that much room for bookshelves; we
currently have about eighty-five boxes full of books making
stacks in one of the bookrooms; inherited from my late
sister-in-law who bought books faster than she could read them.
Trouble is, they're mostly computer books (with special emphasis
on computer graphics) and they're all between five and twenty
years old. In other words, they're all obsolete and getting more
so.

/sigh

[J. Clarke]

In article <9g1br6...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@bigpond.com
says...

>
> On 16/10/11 9:53 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<e690fe1b-512c-4b04-a3ab-c2fa3482dfa6
> > @f5g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, tween...@mypacks.net says...
> >>
> >> On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, James Silverton<not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>

> >> wrote:
> >>> My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
> >>> systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
> >>> Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
> >>> in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
> >>> front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
> >>> of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
> >>> $1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
> >>> Mom, I don't know!"
> >>
> >>

> >> A little off the arith beam but.......a local teacher asked kids to
> >> bring a book from home to discuss. Three kids toted in the phone

> >> book. Sad to think that that was the only book in the house. I'll
> >> bet there was plenty of beer and cigs around, tho.
> >
> > I am always taken aback when someone who sees me reading asks me why I'm
> > doing it.
> >
> >
>

> People who see my book shelves always seem to ask me, "Have you read
> them all?". The incredulity on their faces when I tell them I have read
> most of them more than once is quite depressing.

Why do they think you have them if not to read?

[David DeLaney]

Bryan <bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Cain could probably win Iowa, Romney will win NH, then it's
>on to SC, where the GOP voters are going to have to choose between a
>Black and a Mormon.

Forgive me for sitting here and snickering at this example of schadenfreude.
Oh, forgive me, do!

>The most likely outcome is the GOP picks up a few Senate seats, and
>loses several House seats, and that Obama is re-elected. Capitalism
>is running amok, and the finance sector has shown itself to be
>villainous. The Tea Party is pro-greed, and the Occupy Wall Street
>(99% movement) is anti-greed.

Dave "and then Hillary will be positioned for 2016, and Bill's Magic Rainbow
Field will come back into play and the economy will finally get better" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

...People who see my book shelves, stacks, and boxes tend to go straight past
that into speechlessness, and/or "ignore it and maybe it won't attack me"
mode.

(Still keeping track of my reading on my blog; posts much less than daily, but
frequently enough that the stack of recently-read books doesn't fall over.
dbdatvic at livejournal. Warning: boring. But it saves you-all from too-long
'what i read this month' posts from me. Make no mistake, I enjoy them from
other people...)

Dave

[Pico Rico]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:7j7n979gfe9uhsu4t...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 01:25:54 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
>>The City of Vallejo is voting this November on a *supposedly*
>>temporary ten-cent sales tax to try to fill the city's coffers.
>>Since it went bankrupt last year, and I'm not sure if it's out of
>>it yet, and police and fire services have been cut by ten or so
>>percent and all sorts of horrid stuff -- I think I'm going to
>>vote for it.
>
> A lot of communities are raising the sin taxes - tax alcohol. They
> are easy to pass, but make them more dependent upon sin.

that is part of the "tax everybody but me" thinking.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <MPG.290578c8e...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,

They can't figure out why you have them, because they can't
imagine you reading them.

[David Goldfarb]

In article <Xns9F7F88C1CBD...@69.16.186.7>,
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was involved in training cashiers for many, many years. The first
>thing you alaways do is teach them not how to do arithmetic, but how
>to _count_. Specifically, how to count money. Many, even most, don't
>really need formal training as such. But many *do*.

For a number of years I worked part time at "The Other Change of Hobbit",
an SF specialty bookstore in Berkeley. They didn't (I think they still
don't) have a cash register, only an adding machine and a cash box.
I got proficient at doing 10-key, *and* I learned how to subtract numbers
from a multiple of 10 without conscious thought. E.g.: $12.37 from $20.00
is 7.63 -- don't need to actually do the sum in my head, it just pops
in there. This is a skill that has stayed with me.

--
David Goldfarb |"English cuisine is the cuisine of fear."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Andrew Conway

[Derek Lyons]

James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:

>My 9 year-old granddaughter in Marin County, CA seems to be being
>systematically taught arithmetic but that may not take. I live in
>Montgomery County, MD, which is reputed to have some of the best schools
>in the country. I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and a woman in
>front of me sent her 14 year old (estimated) daughter to select a couple
>of pastries. Her mother asked her to go and pay for them. They were
>$1.50 each and her mother asked the girl how much money she wanted: "Aw,
>Mom, I don't know!"

And that proves... what exactly? I routinely told my mom I didn't
know stuff I knew perfectly well because it's in the perverse nature
of a teenager to do so.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL