minor gloat CO2 tank

[dca...@krl.org]

Yesterday my wife was working so I had to take my visiting sister-in-law to the hair dresser. And then went on to the local scrap yard. There I picked up a handful of swarf. Not any old swarf, but some stainless 316 swarf that was lathe turnings about a foot long. Nice looking chips, tightly curled. I had shown my wife some earlier and she wanted more to use in decorating a Christmas tree next December. It will be one of the Christmas trees at the Nemours Mansion. Such is married life.

But while surveying what was at the scrap yard, I saw an aluminum 20 lb CO2 tank.
Took a little effort to get to it, but I managed.

The stainless sward, the tank and a little hobby vise weighted 29 lbs. And they charged me $30 for the lot. The price for aluminum is $1 / lb. So they slightly overcharged me. But considering how often they have not charged me anything for stuff, ZI think I am way ahead.

So I took the tank to the same welding supply supply whose name was on the tank label. and paid $29 to exchange it for a full tank. $25 for the gas and $4 hasmat fee. The tank I got was dark blue with some spray painted large letters on it. So I painted it a nice green with a rattle can.

If I needed a CO2 tank, it would have been a major gloat. But I already had one tank with my mig welder and another in the basement with a regulator and short hose on it. The hose has a tire inflator adapter on it. I have some plastic soda bottle with a tire stem in the cap. So I can make sparkling water.
So this tank may go to my son and his grand children.

Yes this in not really on topic, except for the part about using swarf for Christmas decorations,

Dan

[Gunner Asch]

Nice job on the tank! And more than on topic!


---
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[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:unjitbl2e4uho67hh...@4ax.com:

> Nice job on the tank! And more than on topic!

Yeah, but the curls have me concerned. Those suckers are SHARP! And
you're going to put this on a Christmas tree in a CHILD medical care
facility?

Man! Be careful! (not of you, but of how many kids amputate fingers on
that stuff!)

LS

[Pete Keillor]

I had the same thought. Reminds me of Dan Aykroyd on SNL with the "Bag
O' Glass" skit.

Pete Keillor

[dca...@krl.org]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 11:24:19 AM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

>
> Yeah, but the curls have me concerned. Those suckers are SHARP! And
> you're going to put this on a Christmas tree in a CHILD medical care
> facility?
>
> Man! Be careful! (not of you, but of how many kids amputate fingers on
> that stuff!)
>
> LS

Well first it is not in a child care facility. It will be in the Mansion that Alfred Du Pont built near the Childrens Hospital. And displayed in a room with a guide there to see that people behave and do not touch the antique ornaments on the tree ( or steal them ).

Second they curls must have been done on a lathe with a lot of horse power. They are fairly thick. I pulled them out of a 55 gallon drum using my bare hands and sufered no cuts. My wife and sister-in-law have also handled them with their bare hands and had no cuts. So while I wouldn't want to jump in a pile of them while naked, they are not all that sharp.

But it is a reasonable warning. If they wore thinner sharper chips I would not have brought any home.

Dan

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

"dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> fired this volley in
news:17b5b767-4a34-40f3...@googlegroups.com:

> But it is a reasonable warning. If they wore thinner sharper chips I
> would not have brought any home.

Good to know! I have a child who was benefitted by Nemours, and I know
they're 'careful', but you can never be 'too careful' around kids!

Lloyd

[dca...@krl.org]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 3:32:43 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

>
> Good to know! I have a child who was benefitted by Nemours, and I know
> they're 'careful', but you can never be 'too careful' around kids!
>
> Lloyd

I believe you can not be too careful around kids about thing that can cause serious injury. But you should let them do things that will cause them pain. Like hit their finger when holding a nail to start it.

Dan

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

"dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> fired this volley in

news:4849173f-61d2-412b...@googlegroups.com:

Ayup! My own kids (including the CP'd disabled son) have ALL had the
opportunities to 'bang their fingers'.

Lloyd

[Ignoramus2914]

Dan, I have a CO2 tank at home hooked up to a SodaStream carbonated
water dispenser via a custom adapter hose. (and the same thing at
work). These tanks last essentially forever on a single charge. I
highly recommend that route, it is far cheaper than the sodastream
ripoff tanks.

i

[dca...@krl.org]

What I have is just a CO2 tank with regulator and a short hose from the regulator to a tire chuck. And some 2 liter plastic soda bottles with a hole in the cap and a tire stem inserted. So it takes a little effort. Fill the soda bottle almost full with water. Open the valve . The regulator is all ready set to 39 psi. Charge the bottle with CO2. Charge more bottles, shut off CO2 tank. Come back later and repeat charging the bottles with gas. THe CO2 disolves in the water and the bottles become soft.

If I run across a regular set up for soda water or beer at the scrap yard, I will buy it. But I do not drink enough soda to justify buying new equipment.

But here is something that I do. I buy ground ginger at the Indian Market. and put some of the ginger powder in the coffee maker and proceed is if making coffee. Then add sugar to taste and carbonate the result. Ginger Ale has a few other things in it, but this does make a nice refreshing drink.

Dan

[Don Foreman]

I also have the CO2 tank-with tire-chuck and bottle-cap-with-Schraeder
-valve setup.

I've also made oxygenated water, same setup but with oxygen rather
than CO2. Put oxygenated water in minnow bucket. Result: combat
ninja minnows. "SHOW ME A WALLEYE, BRING IT ON, EAAYAHHHH!" They
don't last long, but they sure are active until they burn out.

[Ignoramus2914]

On 2016-09-15, dca...@krl.org <dca...@krl.org> wrote:
>
> What I have is just a CO2 tank with regulator and a short hose from
> the regulator to a tire chuck. And some 2 liter plastic soda
> bottles with a hole in the cap and a tire stem inserted. So it
> takes a little effort. Fill the soda bottle almost full with water.
> Open the valve . The regulator is all ready set to 39 psi. Charge
> the bottle with CO2. Charge more bottles, shut off CO2 tank. Come
> back later and repeat charging the bottles with gas. THe CO2
> disolves in the water and the bottles become soft.

sounds pretty economical.

I do not drink soda, only carbonated water.

i

[Gunner Asch]

Gack!! None of the flavor, all of the burps.
None of that good blessings of the Gods either...caffeine....

Blink blink......some peoples kids....shrug....

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:24:11 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Ditto the concern, plus his wife might be liable for the medical fees
associated with the sliced up kids. Tinsel is a lot cheaper all the
way around.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

[Gunner Asch]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 13:52:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:24:11 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
>>news:unjitbl2e4uho67hh...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Nice job on the tank! And more than on topic!
>>
>>Yeah, but the curls have me concerned. Those suckers are SHARP! And
>>you're going to put this on a Christmas tree in a CHILD medical care
>>facility?
>>
>>Man! Be careful! (not of you, but of how many kids amputate fingers on
>>that stuff!)
>
>Ditto the concern, plus his wife might be liable for the medical fees
>associated with the sliced up kids. Tinsel is a lot cheaper all the
>way around.

That very thinking is why there are few machine/woodworking shops left
in high schools in America..and at least 3 generations of kids who
can't find their asses with either hand.

Think hard about what you just proclaimed....

[dca...@krl.org]

First slight correction. The regulator is set to 30 psi Not 39 psi.

You are in some good company. My wife works at the Nemours Mansion. Alfred Du Pont thought like a bunch of us here. The Mansion has two furnaces. And two electric generators. He believed in having full backup. He also had a set up to make carbonated water. I do not remember if it was two complete systems or not. But it had its own room with 220 cu foot CO2 cylinders and a bottle washing station.

Dan

[dca...@krl.org]

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 3:58:46 PM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:

>
> I also have the CO2 tank-with tire-chuck and bottle-cap-with-Schraeder
> -valve setup.
>
> I've also made oxygenated water, same setup but with oxygen rather
> than CO2. Put oxygenated water in minnow bucket. Result: combat
> ninja minnows. "SHOW ME A WALLEYE, BRING IT ON, EAAYAHHHH!" They
> don't last long, but they sure are active until they burn out.

Thanks for the idea. Will have to try that.

Dan
>

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:00:14 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

HUH? We're talking about the man's wife putting it on a public
Christmas tree which many kids will be around. He bought the swarf at
a scrap yard. School and machinery aren't even in the picture.

Think hard about what you just proclaimed.... <bseg>

[Gunner Asch]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 19:29:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>>>>Yeah, but the curls have me concerned. Those suckers are SHARP! And
>>>>you're going to put this on a Christmas tree in a CHILD medical care
>>>>facility?
>>>>
>>>>Man! Be careful! (not of you, but of how many kids amputate fingers on
>>>>that stuff!)
>>>
>>>Ditto the concern, plus his wife might be liable for the medical fees
>>>associated with the sliced up kids. Tinsel is a lot cheaper all the
>>>way around.
>>
>>
>>That very thinking is why there are few machine/woodworking shops left
>>in high schools in America..and at least 3 generations of kids who
>>can't find their asses with either hand.
>>
>>Think hard about what you just proclaimed....
>
>HUH? We're talking about the man's wife putting it on a public
>Christmas tree which many kids will be around. He bought the swarf at
>a scrap yard. School and machinery aren't even in the picture.
>
>Think hard about what you just proclaimed.... <bseg>

Indeed I have, for decades. If the little bastards cant understand a
simple "Dont Touch"..it means they also cant understand instructions
on handling sharp tools in school shops. So it comes down to either
submoronic children or poor parenting is the root cause of those 3
generations getting ZERO manual work skills..because the schools have
removed all the sharp tools after 100 yrs of teaching manual skills in
wood and metal shop classes.

You arent thinking this through...or you have been out of school
far..far..far too long.

Gunner

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in

news:ieomtb14m8li48o7s...@4ax.com:

> Indeed I have, for decades. If the little bastards cant understand a
> simple "Dont Touch"..it means they also cant understand instructions
> on handling sharp tools in school shops. So it comes down to either
> submoronic children or poor parenting is the root cause of those 3
> generations getting ZERO manual work skills..because the schools have
> removed all the sharp tools after 100 yrs of teaching manual skills in
> wood and metal shop classes.
>
> You arent thinking this through...or you have been out of school
> far..far..far too long.
>
>

Gunner, you're WAY off-base with this. I completely agree that kids
aren't taught to work with their hands, and that it's a disaster for our
country and society. But THIS isn't about obeying, or learning, or
manual skills.

Most of the kids in a Nemours facility are little ones. Kids like to
touch things. In fact, that very curiousity is _part_of_ the skill set
you claim they don't have. The tendency of little ones to touch, feel,
tug, pull, and remove shiny things is the 'natural' beginning of
technical competency.

He confirmed that the kids WON'T be in a position to touch this
particular tree, so I don't see a lot of problems with using curls (or
even det-cord) for decorations, as long as it can't endanger any LITTLE
KIDS.

Lloyd

[Gunner Asch]

I was talking far broader than your facility.

Gunner, back from his angiogram...14 hours later

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:10:32 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

We were on different focal lengths. Yes, it's scary to think how
vulnerable we've become due to short-sighted PC thinking. When our
manufacturing and repair base is completely gone, we're done. Student
focus in schools is on huge paychecks, while the schools care nothing
as to the viability of their output. Schools see that there are too
many students applying for the same few jobs yet they don't try to
influence the kids to choose another line of work, one which would
instantly snap them up after college. Tell me that's not a conflict of
interest. But the Gods of PC rule with an iron limp wrist, I mean
fist. They teach 4th graders how to put on a condom while no longer
teaching boys to be men. Thank Crom there are small clusters of
people (parents, teachers, and kids) who still care. Carpe diem,
dudes and dudettes!

>or you have been out of school far..far..far too long.

That I have. I can't believe it has been 45 years since high school,
43 since automotive tech school, and 31 since electronics tech school.
But I learn something new daily: here, on other Internet sites, and
through reading 100 books annually.

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:13:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 06:07:05 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>>He confirmed that the kids WON'T be in a position to touch this
>>particular tree, so I don't see a lot of problems with using curls (or
>>even det-cord) for decorations, as long as it can't endanger any LITTLE
>>KIDS.

Damn, I wish we'd had det-cord when I went to school!

>I was talking far broader than your facility.
>
>Gunner, back from his angiogram...14 hours later

So, is a metal mesh stent in your future? <eek>

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:03:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:13:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 06:07:05 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>>He confirmed that the kids WON'T be in a position to touch this
>>>particular tree, so I don't see a lot of problems with using curls (or
>>>even det-cord) for decorations, as long as it can't endanger any LITTLE
>>>KIDS.
>
>Damn, I wish we'd had det-cord when I went to school!
>
>
>>I was talking far broader than your facility.
>>
>>Gunner, back from his angiogram...14 hours later
>
>So, is a metal mesh stent in your future? <eek>

Nope. Of the 3 bypasses they did in 2009, 2 are open and free with no
blockage. The third is completely closed and is not fixable.
HOWEVER..the original artery has opened up and "is passing enough
blood" according to the heart specialist who did the angioscopy. For
whatever value "enough blood" is.

I had it done, as Ive been having some "issues". I did a treadmill
test 3 weeks ago, where upon I lasted < 5 minutes before sputtering to
a halt like a fish on the dock. My heart beat never rose above 90
beats per minute during the entire testing proceedure. Which to
me..means there is a problem. I also tend to sleep more often..if I
eat ..I go to sleep. Im tired quite often. Some of this may be the
result of depression due to financial issues..but not all of it...so I
was proactive and had the proceedure done. Ill find out what the
specialist has to say next Thursday. Im far too young to be limited
by a "healthy heart" but artery issues...or a damaged heart.

A side note..it appears that bypass grafts are only good from 5-7
yrs..and Im already at the top end of that (my, how time flies) ...so
my lifestyle changes in diet and weight loss and exercise has done a
lot of good over those 7 yrs. I was told that my medication may be
the cause of the limited heart rate, so we will see what we shall see.
Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time
however...#21 attempt to quite smoking.

A further side note....my mother had Bradycardia..which is a condition
that her heart would not speed up past a certain point...and she would
be active and run out of blood..and pass out. Im starting to wonder
if I may not be subject to a genetic pass along..as it started being
visible when she was at about the same age I am. Again...its a
concern I raised with the cardiologist...and I will be getting answers
at my appointment next Thursday. My resting heartbeat, according to
the equipment in the recovery room..averages 47 beats per minute.

Other than that..Im doing ok for a well used and abused harmless
lovable fuzzball.

Thanks for asking.

Gunner

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 06:59:49 -0700, Larry Jaques

As do I, and most here. Which is one of the main reasons we are HERE.

And yeah..I tend to view things from a macro view..rather than a micro
view. With the micro view..I find I cant see the forest for the
trees.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:03:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:13:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 06:07:05 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>He confirmed that the kids WON'T be in a position to touch this
>>>>particular tree, so I don't see a lot of problems with using curls (or
>>>>even det-cord) for decorations, as long as it can't endanger any LITTLE
>>>>KIDS.
>>
>>Damn, I wish we'd had det-cord when I went to school!
>>
>>
>>>I was talking far broader than your facility.
>>>
>>>Gunner, back from his angiogram...14 hours later
>>
>>So, is a metal mesh stent in your future? <eek>
>
>Nope. Of the 3 bypasses they did in 2009, 2 are open and free with no
>blockage. The third is completely closed and is not fixable.
>HOWEVER..the original artery has opened up and "is passing enough
>blood" according to the heart specialist who did the angioscopy. For
>whatever value "enough blood" is.

That's good.

>I had it done, as Ive been having some "issues". I did a treadmill
>test 3 weeks ago, where upon I lasted < 5 minutes before sputtering to
>a halt like a fish on the dock. My heart beat never rose above 90
>beats per minute during the entire testing proceedure. Which to
>me..means there is a problem. I also tend to sleep more often..if I
>eat ..I go to sleep. Im tired quite often. Some of this may be the
>result of depression due to financial issues..but not all of it...so I
>was proactive and had the proceedure done. Ill find out what the
>specialist has to say next Thursday. Im far too young to be limited
>by a "healthy heart" but artery issues...or a damaged heart.

So stop killing yourself and file for early Social Security, which
you've been paying into for the last 40 odd years. I may not have
much money, but I have enough, and getting away from the really hard
work has done me lots of good. I got out before it killed me. Please
consider doing so yourself, for the same reason, my friend.

>A side note..it appears that bypass grafts are only good from 5-7
>yrs..and Im already at the top end of that (my, how time flies) ...so

Holy Shit, Batman! Will they be doing an R&R job, or do they expect
for you to just roll over and die from it? If it doesn't kill you,
that might be the "easy" road to disability income. _That_ would
suck, wot?

>my lifestyle changes in diet and weight loss and exercise has done a
>lot of good over those 7 yrs. I was told that my medication may be
>the cause of the limited heart rate, so we will see what we shall see.
>Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
>fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time
>however...#21 attempt to quite smoking.

Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
-not- to smoke. Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
living proof it can be done. I stink purty!

>A further side note....my mother had Bradycardia..which is a condition
>that her heart would not speed up past a certain point...and she would
>be active and run out of blood..and pass out. Im starting to wonder
>if I may not be subject to a genetic pass along..as it started being
>visible when she was at about the same age I am. Again...its a
>concern I raised with the cardiologist...and I will be getting answers
>at my appointment next Thursday. My resting heartbeat, according to
>the equipment in the recovery room..averages 47 beats per minute.

Dayum, are you a marathon runner, too? Low BP and pulse rates are
common to long distance runners.

>Other than that..Im doing ok for a well used and abused harmless
>lovable fuzzball.
>
>Thanks for asking.

Jewelcome, buddy.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:09:15 -0700, Larry Jaques

<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:03:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:13:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 06:07:05 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>He confirmed that the kids WON'T be in a position to touch this
>>>>>particular tree, so I don't see a lot of problems with using curls (or
>>>>>even det-cord) for decorations, as long as it can't endanger any LITTLE
>>>>>KIDS.
>>>
>>>Damn, I wish we'd had det-cord when I went to school!

Depends on which school you went to. I had plenty of it.

>>>
>>>
>>>>I was talking far broader than your facility.
>>>>
>>>>Gunner, back from his angiogram...14 hours later
>>>
>>>So, is a metal mesh stent in your future? <eek>
>>
>>Nope. Of the 3 bypasses they did in 2009, 2 are open and free with no
>>blockage. The third is completely closed and is not fixable.
>>HOWEVER..the original artery has opened up and "is passing enough
>>blood" according to the heart specialist who did the angioscopy. For
>>whatever value "enough blood" is.
>
>That's good.

I hope its good.

>
>
>>I had it done, as Ive been having some "issues". I did a treadmill
>>test 3 weeks ago, where upon I lasted < 5 minutes before sputtering to
>>a halt like a fish on the dock. My heart beat never rose above 90
>>beats per minute during the entire testing proceedure. Which to
>>me..means there is a problem. I also tend to sleep more often..if I
>>eat ..I go to sleep. Im tired quite often. Some of this may be the
>>result of depression due to financial issues..but not all of it...so I
>>was proactive and had the proceedure done. Ill find out what the
>>specialist has to say next Thursday. Im far too young to be limited
>>by a "healthy heart" but artery issues...or a damaged heart.
>
>So stop killing yourself and file for early Social Security, which
>you've been paying into for the last 40 odd years. I may not have
>much money, but I have enough, and getting away from the really hard
>work has done me lots of good. I got out before it killed me. Please
>consider doing so yourself, for the same reason, my friend.

I plan on retiring in 8 yrs, at 70. I wont stop working of
course..just get paid in cash more often.

>
>
>>A side note..it appears that bypass grafts are only good from 5-7
>>yrs..and Im already at the top end of that (my, how time flies) ...so
>
>Holy Shit, Batman! Will they be doing an R&R job, or do they expect
>for you to just roll over and die from it? If it doesn't kill you,
>that might be the "easy" road to disability income. _That_ would
>suck, wot?

No idea as of yet. Maybe I simply dont run anymore, and get things
done slower. Shrug

>
>
>>my lifestyle changes in diet and weight loss and exercise has done a
>>lot of good over those 7 yrs. I was told that my medication may be
>>the cause of the limited heart rate, so we will see what we shall see.
>>Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
>>fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time
>>however...#21 attempt to quite smoking.
>
>Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
>-not- to smoke. Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
>everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
>living proof it can be done. I stink purty!

Tell that to the heroin addict. Smoking is worse. Particularly 45+
yrs of it.

>
>
>>A further side note....my mother had Bradycardia..which is a condition
>>that her heart would not speed up past a certain point...and she would
>>be active and run out of blood..and pass out. Im starting to wonder
>>if I may not be subject to a genetic pass along..as it started being
>>visible when she was at about the same age I am. Again...its a
>>concern I raised with the cardiologist...and I will be getting answers
>>at my appointment next Thursday. My resting heartbeat, according to
>>the equipment in the recovery room..averages 47 beats per minute.
>
>Dayum, are you a marathon runner, too? Low BP and pulse rates are
>common to long distance runners.

Ive had good circulation for 55 yrs. And yeah..Ive run a few
marathons, but none for 15 yrs.

My uncle Paul, at the age of 78, ran a 20km race on a Saturday and
won. He went back the next day, a Sunday and raced another race, 3
counties over..and died at 19.5 km. Simply fell over dead...artery
blew up in his chest and he bled out in seconds. Shrug....not my way
to go..but the family has a history of being active until their 90s.
As I mentioned before..my Dad is 85 and he married a 47 yr old 3 or so
years ago. They are building a travel trailer at the moment so they
can go camping. She does the wood working..most of it..he does the
design, metal working, welding and plumbing/electrical.
Its starting to look pretty nice. Lots of walnut cabinetry and all the
computerized built ins.

>
>
>>Other than that..Im doing ok for a well used and abused harmless
>>lovable fuzzball.
>>
>>Thanks for asking.
>
>Jewelcome, buddy.

[That's What's Up]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>so I
>was proactive

LOL No. You're the opposite. A patient who self medicates with
nicotine and caffeine no matter who tells you how stupid that is, and
no matter how much it costs you for the cigarettes and soda, and no
matter how much it costs taxpayers to deal with the fallout.

>I lasted < 5 minutes before sputtering to
>a halt like a fish on the dock.

>Im tired quite often.

Time to be proactive and organize a new cull pep squad.

>it appears that bypass grafts are only good from 5-7 yrs

No.

>has done a lot of good over those 7 yrs.

No. Your results are, predictably, below average.
http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/453

>Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
>fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time

You'll give up, as always. The only question is who you'll blame it
on. Probably Clinton.

[That's What's Up]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:09:15 -0700, Larry Jaques

<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:03:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:13:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:

>So stop killing yourself and file for early Social Security, which
>you've been paying into for the last 40 odd years.

Bwahahaha! Where the hell would you get such a stupid idea? Wieber
hasn't been paying. It's probably been a couple decades since he last
filed a tax return.

[pyotr filipivich]

Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Sat, 17 Sep 2016
20:09:15 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>
>
>>my lifestyle changes in diet and weight loss and exercise has done a
>>lot of good over those 7 yrs. I was told that my medication may be
>>the cause of the limited heart rate, so we will see what we shall see.
>>Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
>>fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time
>>however...#21 attempt to quite smoking.
>
>Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
>-not- to smoke. Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
>everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
>living proof it can be done. I stink purty!

Once you've kicked the nicotine - which is a real bitch to do -
then comes the "habits of the hand". The automatic things one does
which involve a cigarette. Couple stories, I was in college working
on a CS degree. The one compiler was a frustrating kludge, and slow.
I hit return and walked out of the lab, smacking my shirt pocket for
my smokes - and realized I had quit smoking some twenty five years
before. That's a habit.
The other story was of going to church with my then SO, and the
preacher needed a cigarette for a prop, and someone way in back
admitted they had one. Then having used it as a sermon illustration,
he dropped his left hand by his side, and continued preaching. I
noticed, and pointed out to herself, "guess who used to smoke a lot"
judging from he way he fidgeted with that unlit cig.
OTOH, I knew two people who quit, mid-pack. So it is possible.

Yeah, it is 'easy' to quit. "I've done it a thousand times" as
the cliche has it. Its the "habits of the hand" which are the hardest
to overcome. That morning cigarette with your cup of coffee, break
time, etc.

MY advice is to phrase it in terms of 'dispassion' - of adding
tobacco to the lists of things one desires to no longer desire, and
move on. Let me know how that works. While its only been 44 years
since I quit, I still occasionally have a desire for one.

tschus
pyotr

p.s. Or you cold switch to a pipe. More fiddling round, more "smoking
as a social activity" than with cigarettes.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

[That's What's Up]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 21:54:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:09:15 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:03:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 17:13:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:

>>So stop killing yourself and file for early Social Security, which
>>you've been paying into for the last 40 odd years.

>I plan on retiring in 8 yrs, at 70. I wont stop working of
>course..just get paid in cash more often.

Why didn't you admit to Jaques that you haven't been paying into SS?

>>Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
>>-not- to smoke.

Jaques is finally right about something!

>> Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
>>everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
>>living proof it can be done. I stink purty!
>
>Tell that to the heroin addict. Smoking is worse. Particularly 45+
>yrs of it.

A friend's adult son is a smoker and drug addict. Every time he goes
to jail, he gets clean. Every time he comes out, he immediately goes
back to drugs and smoking, and telling people that it's too hard to
quit.

>Ive had good circulation for 55 yrs.

Ah, no, dumbass.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 21:54:44 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

At this rate (strokes, bypasses, etc.) you may not last that long.
Retire but stay active, which is easy for you.

>>>A side note..it appears that bypass grafts are only good from 5-7
>>>yrs..and Im already at the top end of that (my, how time flies) ...so
>>
>>Holy Shit, Batman! Will they be doing an R&R job, or do they expect
>>for you to just roll over and die from it? If it doesn't kill you,
>>that might be the "easy" road to disability income. _That_ would
>>suck, wot?
>
>No idea as of yet. Maybe I simply dont run anymore, and get things
>done slower. Shrug

That's a given. What, precisely, do they mean by the 5-7yr lifespan
of grafts?

>>>my lifestyle changes in diet and weight loss and exercise has done a
>>>lot of good over those 7 yrs. I was told that my medication may be
>>>the cause of the limited heart rate, so we will see what we shall see.
>>>Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
>>>fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time
>>>however...#21 attempt to quite smoking.
>>
>>Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
>>-not- to smoke. Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
>>everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
>>living proof it can be done. I stink purty!
>
>Tell that to the heroin addict. Smoking is worse. Particularly 45+
>yrs of it.

I've quit both alcohol and smoking. COFFEE is harder for me to quit
because I love it. But I made the decision and quit both alcohol and
nicotine, and I've never regretted either decision. If you keep
telling yourself it's hard, it will be. The fact remains that it is a
simple decision you have to make. Once you truly make that decision,
it's simple to quit. Of course, it's much easier if you actively cut
way back. I smoked 2+ packs a day and cut back to 1-10 cigs a day
before quitting. I got the flu and didn't want a cig for 4 days. When
I recovered, I decided that the hard part was over (nicotine flush)
and quit. I flushed the cigs themselves (JIC) and threw away the
package. It was and is a Good Thing(tm). Just Do It. Everybody who
has tried and failed tells you how hard it is, and that's because none
of them ever made the desision to actually quit. Most quit for other
reasons/other people but still wanted to smoke. (Hard to imagine.)

>>>A further side note....my mother had Bradycardia..which is a condition
>>>that her heart would not speed up past a certain point...and she would
>>>be active and run out of blood..and pass out. Im starting to wonder
>>>if I may not be subject to a genetic pass along..as it started being
>>>visible when she was at about the same age I am. Again...its a
>>>concern I raised with the cardiologist...and I will be getting answers
>>>at my appointment next Thursday. My resting heartbeat, according to
>>>the equipment in the recovery room..averages 47 beats per minute.
>>
>>Dayum, are you a marathon runner, too? Low BP and pulse rates are
>>common to long distance runners.
>
>Ive had good circulation for 55 yrs. And yeah..Ive run a few
>marathons, but none for 15 yrs.

The metabolic changes probably stuck with you. I wouldn't be a bit
surprised if that's one reason for you retaining most of your mind
after the stroke. It's either that, or you're an Agent Orange Zombie,
and you know what Occam said. ;)

>My uncle Paul, at the age of 78, ran a 20km race on a Saturday and
>won. He went back the next day, a Sunday and raced another race, 3
>counties over..and died at 19.5 km. Simply fell over dead...artery
>blew up in his chest and he bled out in seconds. Shrug....not my way
>to go..but the family has a history of being active until their 90s.

Paul was a Type A, eh? Condolences.

>As I mentioned before..my Dad is 85 and he married a 47 yr old 3 or so
>years ago. They are building a travel trailer at the moment so they
>can go camping. She does the wood working..most of it..he does the
>design, metal working, welding and plumbing/electrical.
>Its starting to look pretty nice. Lots of walnut cabinetry and all the
>computerized built ins.

Very cool. More power to 'em!

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 07:00:18 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Sat, 17 Sep 2016
>20:09:15 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>>
>>>my lifestyle changes in diet and weight loss and exercise has done a
>>>lot of good over those 7 yrs. I was told that my medication may be
>>>the cause of the limited heart rate, so we will see what we shall see.
>>>Im 2 weeks into a Chantex "stop smoking" program as well, with some
>>>fits and starts...shrug. Im not qoing to give up this time
>>>however...#21 attempt to quite smoking.
>>
>>Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
>>-not- to smoke. Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
>>everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
>>living proof it can be done. I stink purty!
>
> Once you've kicked the nicotine - which is a real bitch to do -

Not if you taper off first, as I know from experience. Drink lots of
water to flush the toxins out of your system while you do. It works
for all toxins in the blood. Drugs and other poisons.

>then comes the "habits of the hand". The automatic things one does
>which involve a cigarette. Couple stories, I was in college working
>on a CS degree. The one compiler was a frustrating kludge, and slow.
>I hit return and walked out of the lab, smacking my shirt pocket for
>my smokes - and realized I had quit smoking some twenty five years
>before. That's a habit.

I played with and sucked on straws (no comments from the peanut
gallery, eh?) for a couple weeks afterward, getting over the manual
and oral fixations. Habit trying to push through will.

> The other story was of going to church with my then SO, and the
>preacher needed a cigarette for a prop, and someone way in back
>admitted they had one. Then having used it as a sermon illustration,
>he dropped his left hand by his side, and continued preaching. I
>noticed, and pointed out to herself, "guess who used to smoke a lot"
>judging from he way he fidgeted with that unlit cig.
> OTOH, I knew two people who quit, mid-pack. So it is possible.

Breaking a habit is a function of will. Most people have it and don't
use it.

> Yeah, it is 'easy' to quit. "I've done it a thousand times" as
>the cliche has it. Its the "habits of the hand" which are the hardest
>to overcome. That morning cigarette with your cup of coffee, break
>time, etc.

Another trick was to walk outside and take a few deep breaths when I
wanted a cig. It works especially well in bad weather. <g>

> MY advice is to phrase it in terms of 'dispassion' - of adding
>tobacco to the lists of things one desires to no longer desire, and
>move on. Let me know how that works. While its only been 44 years
>since I quit, I still occasionally have a desire for one.

I've never wanted another one for more than one second, when the
memories of smells returned to remind me why I quit and stayed quit.
So, that's maybe 6 seconds over 28 years.

>p.s. Or you cold switch to a pipe. More fiddling round, more "smoking
>as a social activity" than with cigarettes.

Swap lung cancer for mouth/throat cancer. Wonderful change!

[gray_wolf]

On 9/17/2016 11:54 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 20:09:15 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

[snip]

>>
>> Gunner, smoking is a simple choice. You choose either -to- smoke, or
>> -not- to smoke. Make the decision. Smell like a dirty ashtray to
>> everyone you meet, or don't. The choice is up to you. <g> I'm
>> living proof it can be done. I stink purty!
>
> Tell that to the heroin addict. Smoking is worse. Particularly 45+
> yrs of it.

I had friend tell me that. Said he quit messing with smack but couldn't give
up tobacco. He finally died of lung cancer.
gw

[gray_wolf]

You might try bupropion aka Wellbutrin aka Zyban. I take 450 mg a day for
depression.
It's also prescribed for stop smoking. For me it prevented me from reaching the
point of
where I'd kill for a cigarette. I have quit my cigars for several months and it
was no big deal.
I started again because it really helps my depression. Had a Dr tell me that
cigarettes were
the worse thing you could smoke. I smoke a pipe sometimes.
I have a piece of .250 OD x 8" piece of 304 SS for the pipe stem.
No tongue bite at all. Surprised me.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:15:22 -0500, gray_wolf <g_w...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Its quite true. Its easier for many people to quit shooting horse than
it is to quit smoking.

However..that being said..Im trying. The patches and the Chantrex
does indeed help. Along with me telling myself..."no more surgeries"

http://www.chantix.com/
https://www.drugs.com/cdi/nicotine-patch.html

[Don Foreman]

CABG's (cardiac arterial bypass grafts) are not categorically "only
good for 5-7 years". PLenty of people are walking around 20+ years
post CABG.

The problem is that many who have such surgery continue the lifestyles
that contributed to their needing it, so the likelihood of blockages
recurring for them is somewhere between high and certain.

I had quintuple CABG over 8 years ago. After a recent annual routine
checkup my cardiologist told me I can (and should) do anything I want,
and let's make the interval between checkups two years rather than
one. I feel better now than I did 7 years ago.

My cardiac ejection fraction six months post op was about 25%. Normal
is in the neighborhood of 50%. I was told then that was about as good
as it would ever get for me. Now, 8 years later, my last checkup
showed that my e.f. is about 45%, nearly normal.

Lifestyle changes: nothing major other than I quit smoking the day of
my surgery and have not had a puff since. I pay reasonable but not
fanatic attention to healthy diet: I fry my fish in butter and I
enjoy red meat a couple of times a week. I get off my butt to walk
briskly for awhile most days but I'm certainly no hero beyond that.

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:08:35 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 07 Oct 2016 22:43:18 -0500, Don Foreman
<dfor...@goldengate.net> wrote:

>CABG's (cardiac arterial bypass grafts) are not categorically "only
>good for 5-7 years". PLenty of people are walking around 20+ years
>post CABG.
>
>The problem is that many who have such surgery continue the lifestyles
>that contributed to their needing it, so the likelihood of blockages
>recurring for them is somewhere between high and certain.
>
>I had quintuple CABG over 8 years ago. After a recent annual routine
>checkup my cardiologist told me I can (and should) do anything I want,
>and let's make the interval between checkups two years rather than
>one. I feel better now than I did 7 years ago.
>
>My cardiac ejection fraction six months post op was about 25%. Normal
>is in the neighborhood of 50%. I was told then that was about as good
>as it would ever get for me. Now, 8 years later, my last checkup
>showed that my e.f. is about 45%, nearly normal.
>
>Lifestyle changes: nothing major other than I quit smoking the day of
>my surgery and have not had a puff since. I pay reasonable but not
>fanatic attention to healthy diet: I fry my fish in butter and I
>enjoy red meat a couple of times a week. I get off my butt to walk
>briskly for awhile most days but I'm certainly no hero beyond that.

Thans Don. They are still trying to determine where the Bradycardia
comes from. They have played with my normal daily meds a bit...and its
not changing my heart beat much. But all is good so far. My 10 minute
work outs have dropped to 5 minute workouts, simply because I dont
have enough blood flow. Shrug I have great expectations for a fix.

And Ive not had a cigarette in 18 hours. Getting better.

Gunner

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 08 Oct 2016 03:41:26 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Oct 2016 22:43:18 -0500, Don Foreman
><dfor...@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>CABG's (cardiac arterial bypass grafts) are not categorically "only
>>good for 5-7 years". PLenty of people are walking around 20+ years
>>post CABG.
>>
>>The problem is that many who have such surgery continue the lifestyles
>>that contributed to their needing it, so the likelihood of blockages
>>recurring for them is somewhere between high and certain.
>>
>>I had quintuple CABG over 8 years ago. After a recent annual routine
>>checkup my cardiologist told me I can (and should) do anything I want,
>>and let's make the interval between checkups two years rather than
>>one. I feel better now than I did 7 years ago.
>>
>>My cardiac ejection fraction six months post op was about 25%. Normal
>>is in the neighborhood of 50%. I was told then that was about as good
>>as it would ever get for me. Now, 8 years later, my last checkup
>>showed that my e.f. is about 45%, nearly normal.
>>
>>Lifestyle changes: nothing major other than I quit smoking the day of
>>my surgery and have not had a puff since. I pay reasonable but not
>>fanatic attention to healthy diet: I fry my fish in butter and I
>>enjoy red meat a couple of times a week. I get off my butt to walk
>>briskly for awhile most days but I'm certainly no hero beyond that.

Excellent news, Don. And butter is a hell of a lot better for you
than that hydrogenated margarine poison. I use 2:1 coconut oil with
butter, melted just enough to blend. It's tasty and my omelets come
out nicely browned, crisp, and tasty. Try it. (You, too, Gunner)

>Thans Don. They are still trying to determine where the Bradycardia
>comes from. They have played with my normal daily meds a bit...and its
>not changing my heart beat much. But all is good so far. My 10 minute
>work outs have dropped to 5 minute workouts, simply because I dont
>have enough blood flow. Shrug I have great expectations for a fix.

Best of luck, mon. Maybe try slightly lighter workouts for slightly
longer periods so your oxygenated blood flow keeps up? You'll figure
it out. After straining a psoas a couple weeks ago, I've cut way back
on exercise for now.

>And Ive not had a cigarette in 18 hours. Getting better.

Most Excellent, DUUUUUDE. Congrats. The first couple days are the
worst, so you're well on your way to smoke-free nirvana. (Talked the
old lady into quitting yet?) When you feel like a cig, walk outside,
take several deep, deep breaths, chanting the Money Hum (Om mani padme
hum) during each, and walk back inside. Worked for me. LOL



--
All of us want to do well. But if we do not do
good, too, then doing well will never be enough.
-- Anna Quindlen

[Gunner Asch]

We use coconut oil almost exclusivly and have for decades. But thanks
for thinking of me!

>
>
>>Thans Don. They are still trying to determine where the Bradycardia
>>comes from. They have played with my normal daily meds a bit...and its
>>not changing my heart beat much. But all is good so far. My 10 minute
>>work outs have dropped to 5 minute workouts, simply because I dont
>>have enough blood flow. Shrug I have great expectations for a fix.
>
>Best of luck, mon. Maybe try slightly lighter workouts for slightly
>longer periods so your oxygenated blood flow keeps up? You'll figure
>it out. After straining a psoas a couple weeks ago, I've cut way back
>on exercise for now.
>
>
>>And Ive not had a cigarette in 18 hours. Getting better.
>
>Most Excellent, DUUUUUDE. Congrats. The first couple days are the
>worst, so you're well on your way to smoke-free nirvana. (Talked the
>old lady into quitting yet?) When you feel like a cig, walk outside,
>take several deep, deep breaths, chanting the Money Hum (Om mani padme
>hum) during each, and walk back inside. Worked for me. LOL

Oh yeah..we are doing this together. Im a bit past her..but we are
working with each other.

[Don Foreman]

On Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:56:59 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:



>

>Oh yeah..we are doing this together. Im a bit past her..but we are
>working with each other.
>
>Gunner

That's hyooge. You are each and both more likely to succeed that way.
Who will be the first weakling to fail (not I, goddamnit, and not
you, you can kick Mr. Butt's butt) and so on.

I won't say best of luck because luck has nothing to do with it; what
gets it done is the intelligence to understand what must be done and
the will to do it all the way until it's done -- "done" here meaning
that not having a smoke become a no-brainer rather than yet another
bitchy inch in a long low crawl uphill under fire.

It keeps getting easier as time goes on.

One device I used for awhile was the "gun of the month club"; I
could just about buy a new handgun every month with the money I no
longer spent on tobacco. Not quite, but pretty close. Smokes now
cost twice what they did then ... but so do handguns. I eventually
pretty much quit buying handguns lest I need to start buying
safes...and then houses to keep them in.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:56:59 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

I hope it's virgin rather than the processed crap. Costco had 54oz
jugs for $18, so it's cheaper than the processed stuff at the store,
and much, much better for you.

>>>And Ive not had a cigarette in 18 hours. Getting better.
>>
>>Most Excellent, DUUUUUDE. Congrats. The first couple days are the
>>worst, so you're well on your way to smoke-free nirvana. (Talked the
>>old lady into quitting yet?) When you feel like a cig, walk outside,
>>take several deep, deep breaths, chanting the Money Hum (Om mani padme
>>hum) during each, and walk back inside. Worked for me. LOL
>
>Oh yeah..we are doing this together. Im a bit past her..but we are
>working with each other.

Awesome! Congrats to both, and please pass on my kudos to her, too.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 08 Oct 2016 23:14:16 -0500, Don Foreman
<dfor...@goldengate.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:56:59 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Oh yeah..we are doing this together. Im a bit past her..but we are
>>working with each other.
>>
>>Gunner
>
>That's hyooge. You are each and both more likely to succeed that way.
>Who will be the first weakling to fail (not I, goddamnit, and not
>you, you can kick Mr. Butt's butt) and so on.
>
>I won't say best of luck because luck has nothing to do with it; what
>gets it done is the intelligence to understand what must be done and
>the will to do it all the way until it's done -- "done" here meaning
>that not having a smoke become a no-brainer rather than yet another
>bitchy inch in a long low crawl uphill under fire.

It's a simple decision. I'm glad they made it. Once you truly make
it, it's not hard to abide by. The hardest part is not to let your
old habit make you pick up and light one without your conscious mind
being involved.

My neighbor quit for a week and then, for the 4th time in her life,
started smoking again. So disappointing. The time in the hospital
cleaned her out and she knew she's heal quicker without the chemicals
in her body, but she went back anyway. That's a disgusting habit.

>It keeps getting easier as time goes on.
>
>One device I used for awhile was the "gun of the month club"; I
>could just about buy a new handgun every month with the money I no
>longer spent on tobacco. Not quite, but pretty close. Smokes now
>cost twice what they did then ... but so do handguns. I eventually
>pretty much quit buying handguns lest I need to start buying
>safes...and then houses to keep them in.

I hope you're stocked up for TEOTWAWKI, too.

[gerald...@yahoo.ca]

On Sun, 09 Oct 2016 07:00:25 -0700, Larry Jaques

In my case, after a couple people died and the sin tax went sky high,
I determined to quit and went on the patch. Being a bullheaded SOB and
with a whole lot of luck I haven't had a smoke since April 23 1993.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

[Larry Jaques]

Congrats, Gerry. My end-use dates: alcohol in '85, tobacco in '88, and
TV in '05. I'm working on politics now. It's a ghastly disease.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

[Please!]

Too bad you can't quit knuckledragging.