bare concrete walls .. ?
Grant Erwin
shop. Two of the walls are just bare concrete. I'd like to be able to attach
things, like cabinets or pegboard. In the past, I've star-drilled holes,
put in lead fittings, and lag bolted things to concrete. This is a lot of
work, but you get a very strong connection. I also dimly remember using
a "ramset" which is sort of like a .22 pistol except it fires a nail. I'm
not sure how well something like that would hold. (If you put up a frame of
2x4's with ramset nails, and put 1/4" pegboard on it, can you hang a full
complement of tools on the pegboard?)
Is it often done to put furring strips up and just cover the entire wall?
I could then run conduit behind the (new) wall and get my wiring done that
way.
Any ideas?
Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington
STJ28
for lateral alignment of plates when building stud walls off a slab. If
moisture is not a problem you might look at heavy duty construction adhesive
and use the ramsets to hold while it sets.
KD6JDJ
Grant
The 22 will work if you want to use it. Some models require that you use both
hands. That usually means that you will need an assistant to hold wood in place
while you strike the Ramset. It will be much quicker to attach the wood with
the Ramset, than to drill holes and 'glue' studs into the concrete. But, if I
had the job to do in my 'shop' I'd get a hammer drill and some 'Hilti" type
anchors.
I suppose that you will have to consider how much time you want to devote and
the cost of guns and , or, hammer drills + anchors .
I dont like the Ramsets only because I'm scared of them. They are a little
dangerous and they are a little hard to move if you change your mind.
Jerry
boris beizer
news:19990726122637...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> > Grant Erwin
>
> >I'm getting ready to prepare the garage in my new house to become my new
> >shop. Two of the walls are just bare concrete. I'd like to be able to
attach
> >things, like cabinets or pegboard. In the past, I've star-drilled holes,
> >put in lead fittings, and lag bolted things to concrete. This is a lot of
> >work, but you get a very strong connection. I also dimly remember using
> >a "ramset" which is sort of like a .22 pistol except it fires a nail. I'm
> >not sure how well something like that would hold. (If you put up a frame of
> >2x4's with ramset nails, and put 1/4" pegboard on it, can you hang a full
> >complement of tools on the pegboard?)
I just redid my shop. I have lots of very heavy cabinets hung on the walls
(e.g. full of steel tools). I used these new, direct screw-in screws for
concrete. They come with a special drill bit. They come in all different
lengths and diameters. Used an average of a dozen or so per cabinet. About
3.5 or so inches long.
> >Is it often done to put furring strips up and just cover the entire wall?
> >I could then run conduit behind the (new) wall and get my wiring done that
way.
Our code here doesn't require conduit. Plain old roamex will do. Got rid of
all the furring strips and 2x4 and screwed everything directly to the walls --
including the staples to hold the wiring in place. It's a shop. I'd rather
have all the wiring in plain view.
> The 22 will work if you want to use it. Some models require that you use
both
> hands. That usually means that you will need an assistant to hold wood in
place
> while you strike the Ramset. It will be much quicker to attach the wood with
> the Ramset, than to drill holes and 'glue' studs into the concrete. But, if
I
> had the job to do in my 'shop' I'd get a hammer drill and some 'Hilti" type
> anchors.
Don't need anchors at all. These new screws screw into the concrete or stone.
No furring strips, no anchors, no hammer drill -- plain old 3/8 drill does it.
.> They are a little
> dangerous and they are a little hard to move if you change your mind.
Especially if you staple your hand to the wall. The screws come out, although
re-using them or the hole can be chancy.
-------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------
Dave & Laurie Keith
>
> I'm getting ready to prepare the garage in my new house to become my new
> shop. Two of the walls are just bare concrete. I'd like to be able to attach
> things, like cabinets or pegboard. In the past, I've star-drilled holes,
> put in lead fittings, and lag bolted things to concrete. This is a lot of
> work, but you get a very strong connection. I also dimly remember using
> a "ramset" which is sort of like a .22 pistol except it fires a nail. I'm
Lately I've been using CONTAP screws. They are very tough screws
designed
to be self 'tapping' in concrete. They are medium blue in color
and come
in a variety of sizes. They even have packages that include a
masonry bit.
The benefit that I see over anchors is that the hole is smaller
thus easier
to drill, and the cost of the anchor is eliminated (having said
that CONTAP
screws are more expensive than 'normal' screws).
dave
Jon Elson
Grant Erwin wrote:
> I'm getting ready to prepare the garage in my new house to become my new
> shop. Two of the walls are just bare concrete. I'd like to be able to attach
> things, like cabinets or pegboard. In the past, I've star-drilled holes,
> put in lead fittings, and lag bolted things to concrete. This is a lot of
> work, but you get a very strong connection. I also dimly remember using
> a "ramset" which is sort of like a .22 pistol except it fires a nail. I'm
> not sure how well something like that would hold.
I moved into a (new for me) home about 10 years ago. (For reference, it
was built in 1975.) It had very solid-looking poured concrete walls. I tried
a carbide masonry bit with a small electric hammer-drill, and it was VERY
slow going. The concrete has a large amount of something called Jasper,
which is supposed to be something the glaciers washed down from up
north. Small, smooth, rounded, reddish-brown stones, and the hardest
stuff I've ever seen. the masonry bit goes through the concrete at about
1/16" per second, until it hits a piece of jasper. You can just wail away
at that jasper, and the bit will eventually start to glow red, but it will
take hours to make another mm of progress!
So, I went and got one of those power drivers. It looked impressive,
and I couldn't even set off the high power charges with a small hammer. I had
to go to a 5-Lb hammer to fire the charge. Out of about 20 nails, I
actually got one in far enough to not fall out when the driver tool was
removed! All the others spalled off a flat cone of concrete, about
1/8" deep, and about 2-4" in diameter, and sent a nail bent up like a
pretzel flying across the room! Well, that sure was a waste of money!
So, I went back to the masonry bits and lead anchors. What I had to do
was drill as long as progress was being made, and keep spraying water
from a plastic squirt bottle to cool the drill and remove dust. When
progress stopped (every few seconds!) I would wash out the hole
and look for the offending jasper. Then, I'd angle a star drill so as
to put the point of the star drill on the jasper, and hit it with the 5-lb
hammer, until it shatered. Then, back to the carbide drill. Very
slow, hard work, and about 30 minutes for each hole! But, the
lead anchors really hold!
A little while ago, I added a sink to my shop, and had to run the
drain line at about floor level, to get the water to the other side
of an interior wall, where a floor drain was. A carbide core drill
immediately died when it hit the jasper, and I had 7" to go!
I got out my air chisel, and was amazed at what it could do!
I pounded out a hole about 1.5" in diameter, 7.5" deep in about
5-6 hours. I wonder if an appropriate tool could be made up
on the lathe to mount to an air chisel, and pound those 1/2"
anchor holes to the desired depth?
Jon
KD6JDJ
<snip>
>I pounded out a hole about 1.5" in diameter, 7.5" deep in about
>5-6 hours.
Jon
Did you try a 'hammer drill'?
Jerry
Glen Hathaway
<jme...@artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
>I moved into a (new for me) home about 10 years ago. (For reference, it
>was built in 1975.) It had very solid-looking poured concrete walls. I tried
>a carbide masonry bit with a small electric hammer-drill, and it was VERY
>slow going. The concrete has a large amount of something called Jasper,
>which is supposed to be something the glaciers washed down from up
>north. Small, smooth, rounded, reddish-brown stones, and the hardest
>stuff I've ever seen. the masonry bit goes through the concrete at about
>1/16" per second, until it hits a piece of jasper. You can just wail away
>at that jasper, and the bit will eventually start to glow red, but it will
>take hours to make another mm of progress!
>Jon
Go to your local rental shop and get yourself a Hilti hammer drill. I
own a TE-15. That would work fine. Other models or brands would work
fine also. You'll be AMAZED at how fast these things drill even the
hardest concrete or stone.
My plumbing company used three Hilti TE-15's to drill all the pipe
hanger anchors in a 128 suite apartment - thousands of holes in very
hard concrete. Sold off 2 of the machines and the third one is still
going strong.
Jim McGill
I just did the seismic retrofit on my house and used a rotohammer to
drill the holes for all the bolts (35 - 7"x 1/2" expansion bolts).
Surprisingly enough, it was the easiest part of the project.
Rotohammer's are great, as long as you are patient and don't lean on
them, and drill holes in concrete and rocks with startling ease. I'd
suggest getting a box of 1/4" expansion bolts from Western Fasteners,
633-1510 - bottom of Stone Way, near Lake Union (they're half the price
of Eagle), and go at it. Lay out the pattern before hand and it
shouldn't take more than a few hours rental time.
Jim
Ted Edwards
> I'm getting ready to prepare the garage in my new house to become my new
> shop. Two of the walls are just bare concrete. I'd like to be able to attach
> things, like cabinets or pegboard.
Even in our dry climate, framing for walls should be placed with at
least 1/2" between the concrete and the back of the studs. In your
climate, I would think this is even more important. The bottom plate
should be separated from the concrete slab by a strip of thin foam made
for the purpose. If you put some insulation and a vapour barrier in
this wall and add a small electric or gas/propane heater, you will pat
yourself on the back when winter rains come and your shop is warm and
dry and your tools don't rust.
> In the past, I've star-drilled holes, put in lead fittings, and lag bolted
> things to concrete. This is a lot of work, but you get a very strong connection.
The stongest (and cheapest) connection you can get is to epoxy a length
of ready-rod (all-thread) into a drilled hole. I used 5 1/2" lengths of
1/2" ready-rod into a 3" deep 9/16" hole for the bottom plates on our
new house and the garage/shop. IFC Cold Cure (1-800-778-0833) is an
excellent epoxy at a reasonable price. (There are prepackaged epoxies
sold for this job at outrageous prices.) Do yourself a *big* favour and
get a *good* hammer drill - one that uses the SDS chuck system. If it
uses a conventional chuck, it won't have the jam - the vibration loosens
it. I have two hammer drills, both Bosch. I got the first one on
sale. It had a regular chuck. I could drill a 9/16" hole 3" into
concrete in 3 or 4 minutes. I then got the hevier SDS model. Drilling
time for the same size hole went to 10 seconds! I got an SDS to Jacobs
chuck adapter with it so it makes a good 1/2" variable speed drill as
well. Let me know if you want more info and/or model numbers.
> I also dimly remember using a "ramset" which is sort of like a .22 pistol except
> it fires a nail. I'm not sure how well something like that would hold.
I have used those. Both first hand and doing reno on a place where they
had been used. They aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell. I'd
put it even more strongly but the language might offend someone. Forget
them. I once removed a bottom plate that had been fastened to a slab
with these things about every 16". One bang on the side with a
carpenters hammer and it was off.
If you want any more info and/or detail, don't hesitate.
Ted
Kelly
powdery (is that a word ) you can us subfloor glue on
the 2x4's and then nail them with the ramset.
>a "ramset" which is sort of like a .22 pistol except it fires a nail. I'm
>not sure how well something like that would hold. (If you put up a frame of
>2x4's with ramset nails, and put 1/4" pegboard on it, can you hang a full
>complement of tools on the pegboard?)
>
>Is it often done to put furring strips up and just cover the entire wall?
>I could then run conduit behind the (new) wall and get my wiring done that
>way.
>