Favorite Bay Area Rides
David Casseres
ridden over there was last year's Primavera Century, run by the Fremont
Freewheelers. We rode on Mt. Hamilton Rd., Sierra Rd., Calaveras Rd.,
and Palomares Canyon Rd., all very beautiful. Sierra Rd. is a very
challenging climb.
David Casseres
jobst_b...@hp1900.desk.hp.com
I recall that ride. It was unfortunate that the course didn't go over
Mt. Hamilton because the amount of climbing was certainly no easier and
the Mt. Hamilton loop is far more scenic. On that day I and my friends
were glad to leave Hall's Valley and the Primavera traffic as we rode on
up to the top and to Livermore. The round trip from Claveras Rd and
piedmont Ave. is 106 miles if you go through Livermore and take Vinyard
Ave. from Hwy 84 to Pleasanton and Sunol. The ride up Calaveras Rd. is
Always wind sheltered and cool with a beautiful view of Apperson Ridge
where eagles and vultures soar and dear graze the slopes. Poppy hill
at the first summit is a beautiful mix of California poppies and blue
ground lupine.
San Antonio valley on the back side of the mountain is a panorama of
wildflowers and birds not seen in many other places. Lewis woodpeckers,
kingbirds, bluebirds, horned larks, phainopeplas, wild turkeys, roadrunners
and others can be seen. San Antone Jct is a classic backroad roadhouse
where greasy hamburgers beer and other truckstop like stuff is available.
The cigarette smoke is dense but there are outdoor picnic tables under a
couple of old oaks that are drilled full of woodpecker holes with nesting
birds.
On the other hand the Santa Cruz mountains have myriad routes with views
to Monterey as well as the bay area. Big Basin redwood park has Gazos Cr.
Road to the beach and White House Canyon Rd. Last Chance Rd. branches off
Hinn Hammond Rd and follows the ridge above Wadell Creek to Swanton. South
of that there are many roads in the redwoods that make great rides. Like
Gazos Cr, many of these are closed to auto traffic.
Ride bike!
David Casseres
> On the other hand the Santa Cruz mountains have myriad routes with views
> to Monterey as well as the bay area. Big Basin redwood park has Gazos
Cr.
> Road to the beach and White House Canyon Rd. Last Chance Rd. branches
off
> Hinn Hammond Rd and follows the ridge above Wadell Creek to Swanton.
South
> of that there are many roads in the redwoods that make great rides. Like
> Gazos Cr, many of these are closed to auto traffic.
Last time I was on Gazos Creek Rd. was years ago -- is it still unpaved?
If so, it's worth knowing in advance. How about some of those others?
David Casseres
Exclaimer: Hey!
that rather than
patenting being bad for software, it could be good for software that is
constructed from licensed components (e.g. the Unix libc or OSF Motif
libraries). This is one way automobiles with 1000s of patented
components can be built with only a few license negotiations--most
licenses are included standard with the sale of the components.
With regard to Winston Edmond's comments on setting up a Non-Patent
office, I would make the following comment. In the LPF viewpoint
section titled Fighting Patents One by One, they state that they intend
to do just this. Second, I note that David Pressman writes in his book,
Patent it Yourself (Nolo Press):
"Computer note: While the statute speakes of "printed" publications, I'm
sure that information on computer-information utilities or networks
would be considered a printed publication, provided it was publicly available."
This probably means that Usenet news constitutes publishing for the
purpose of prior art. Moreover, Public Use of a product in the U.S.
constitutes prior art. according to Pressman, so even if Usenet news
were not allowed, public use of it by Usenet readers would count.
Lastly, though I cannot find the reference for this at present, I recall
reading that if you send in prior art to the PTO along witha modest fee,
they will publish it in the Official Gazette, so you won't need a
separate NPTO, just use the existing one. Note that this is a
SOCIETALLY BENEFICIAL incentive of patents--it encourages techniques,
even ones that some might consider obvious, but which might not be
obvious to others to be published either in patent applications, or in
other prior art. Removal of patentability reduces the incentives to
publish while disincentives to publishing from trade secret law remain.
As to the Viewpoint article itself, I'll make the following short observations
in another article.
Scott McGregor
jobst_b...@hp1900.desk.hp.com
> Last time I was on Gazos Creek Rd. was years ago -- is it still unpaved?
> If so, it's worth knowing in advance. How about some of those others?
I'm not sure I understand what is worth knowing about that. It seems
to me that for some riders the world ends at the edge of the paved road.
As I ride up the most scenic car excluded road to Skyline Blvd here on
Alpine Rd. I get incredulous looks from knobby tired MTB riders in their
28-32 gears who, given a chance, say something like "Gee, don't you get a
lot of flats?" or "Doesn't that ruin your wheels?" It's not that they
believe this to be true. What's going on here is that they take it as
an affront that anyone would dare ride on this smooth gradual gradient
road that coincidentally isn't paved without special equipment such as
they have.
There are few roads where any of this is necessary. I find smooth
road tires adequate for any of the roads I have mentioned. It seems
to bad that we don't have videos of the TdF of the '50s when most of
the great mountain passes were unpaved roads. I had the pleasure of
riding the Alps when the Stelvio, Gavia, St. Bernard, Simplon, and
most of the Dolomites were so called dirt roads. Traffic was light
and the kind of people who didn't like DIRT stayed away. In those
days tires weren't as god as they are today and tubulars were the
norm.
On the other hand, I suppose I should be grateful that many bicyclists
don't ride these roads so they remain unspoiled and don't receive
scrutiny from the road departments that would make them more like
freeways.
Drew W. Saunders
jobst_brandt%0...@hp1900.desk.hp.com writes:
>David Casseres writes:
>
>> Last time I was on Gazos Creek Rd. was years ago -- is it still unpaved?
>> If so, it's worth knowing in advance. How about some of those others?
>
>I'm not sure I understand what is worth knowing about that. It seems
>to me that for some riders the world ends at the edge of the paved road.
>As I ride up the most scenic car excluded road to Skyline Blvd here on
>Alpine Rd. I get incredulous looks from knobby tired MTB riders in their
>28-32 gears who, given a chance, say something like "Gee, don't you get a
>lot of flats?" or "Doesn't that ruin your wheels?"
>
Alpine is one of my favorite roads too, on either my road bike or my
Hybrid bike. I, too get funny looks and comments when I tell people
I take my 120psi slick-tire equiped bike on dirt. To make them feel
better I call Alpine a road ride, without pavement for a short
segment, rather than an "off-road" ride, although I still take that
bike through the Arastradero open space area (which is really
"off-road" riding.) It is a bit more difficult on the road bike
with a 40-26 bottom gear than on the hybrid with a 28-28 and 32mm
wide treaded tires, but not impossible. The main problem is the
occasional sort spin-outs that happen if I hit a sandy/dusty spot.
I'd recommend this road, Alpine, as an excellent introduction to
non-paved riding with road bikes for anyone.
Drew
Eric House
> David Casseres writes:
> > Last time I was on Gazos Creek Rd. was years ago -- is it still unpaved?
> > If so, it's worth knowing in advance. How about some of those others?
> I'm not sure I understand what is worth knowing about that. It seems
> to me that for some riders the world ends at the edge of the paved road.
You know damn well what is worth knowing about that.
But I'll remind you, just for the sake of completeness.
First, not everyone has the skill to handle dirt roads on
28c tires as effortlessly as you claim to do. Second, not
everyone runs 28c tires: would you find it worth knowing if
you had 18c tires on your wheels? Third, no matter how
skilled the rider, riding on dirt is going to take a lot
longer than covering the same distance on good pavement.
I'd hate to plan a nice 150 mile Sunday jaunt only to
discover half-way through that a third of it was on roads
where I'd be lucky to average 10 mph.
You know all this, of course. But you pretend not to, as if to
say that you can't conceive of anyone so stupid as to use any
equipment different from yours, or anyone so inexperienced and
uncoordinated as to be unable to handle any road or single-track
with slick road tires. This kind of attitude stinks a lot faster
than either fish or company.
> As I ride up the most scenic car excluded road to Skyline Blvd here on
> Alpine Rd. I get incredulous looks from knobby tired MTB riders in their
> 28-32 gears who, given a chance, say something like "Gee, don't you get a
> lot of flats?" or "Doesn't that ruin your wheels?"
Alpine is something a skilled rollerblader could probably handle.
Show me someone who can climb that ugly rock-strewn "road" from
upper Montebello OSP to the top of Black Mountain in a 45x24 low
and 28c slicks and I'll be impressed. But even from *him* I'd still
expect a modicum of manners.
--
****************************************************************************
Eric House "My employer doesn't share its opinions with
me, so I can share only mine with you"
Daniel Van Der Weide
>Show me someone who can climb that ugly rock-strewn "road" from
>upper Montebello OSP to the top of Black Mountain in a 45x24 low
>and 28c slicks and I'll be impressed. But even from *him* I'd still
>expect a modicum of manners.
>--
>****************************************************************************
>Eric House "My employer doesn't share its opinions with
> me, so I can share only mine with you"
I did this ride on 20mm tires and a 42x20 with a bunch of mtn-biked
friends. We were all amazed that I didn't wipe out. I got lucky.
BRANDT_JOBS...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com
Eric House writes:
>> I'm not sure I understand what is worth knowing about that. It seems
>> to me that for some riders the world ends at the edge of the paved road.
> You know damn well what is worth knowing about that.
>
> But I'll remind you, just for the sake of completeness.
> First, not everyone has the skill to handle dirt roads on
> 28c tires as effortlessly as you claim to do. Second, not
> everyone runs 28c tires: would you find it worth knowing if
> you had 18c tires on your wheels? Third, no matter how
> skilled the rider, riding on dirt is going to take a lot
> longer than covering the same distance on good pavement.
> I'd hate to plan a nice 150 mile Sunday jaunt only to
> discover half-way through that a third of it was on roads
> where I'd be lucky to average 10 mph.
I didn't ask anyone to volunteer any information about their lack of
bicycling skills. The roads I mentioned are eminently rideable and are
ridden regularly by bicyclists. Of the ones mentioned, only Last Chance
Road requires trials riding skills if you choose not to walk some short
sections that are also the most scenic. I don't know why you would
choose to ride around on 700-18's that snake bite just from crossing the
centerline on a Botts dot. Of course if this is an excuse to stay on
the parade route, I suppose it has merit.
> You know all this, of course. But you pretend not to, as if to
> say that you can't conceive of anyone so stupid as to use any
> equipment different from yours, or anyone so inexperienced and
> uncoordinated as to be unable to handle any road or single-track
> with slick road tires. This kind of attitude stinks a lot faster
> than either fish or company.
There you go again calling someone stupid even though no such words
crossed my keyboard in the cited text.
>> As I ride up the most scenic car excluded road to Skyline Blvd here on
>> Alpine Rd. I get incredulous looks from knobby tired MTB riders in their
>> 28-32 gears who, given a chance, say something like "Gee, don't you get a
>> lot of flats?" or "Doesn't that ruin your wheels?"
> Alpine is something a skilled rollerblader could probably handle.
> Show me someone who can climb that ugly rock-strewn "road" from
> upper Montebello OSP to the top of Black Mountain in a 45x24 low
> and 28c slicks and I'll be impressed. But even from *him* I'd still
> expect a modicum of manners.
Well I don't see that the road up Montebello from Stevens Canyon Trail is
anything unusual. It is steep but reasonably smooth and has good traction.
I don't have a 45t chainwheel but I have ridden up and down that road a
few times and find it has great scenic merit. Maybe if you got some
reasonable tires you could ride on roads that get away from urban traffic,
out there where the giant redwoods grow and deer and wild turkeys roam.
As I rode out of Big Basin on Last Chance Rd. this Sunday the waterfalls
on south Wadell Creak made it clear why someone might name the road that
way. Sheer cliffs overlap so that they seem to make a box canyon through
which no road could pass. Through the narrows the creek leaves only a
small path along the ledge. It's a great place and for those who don't
like trials riding, you can walk the few hundred yards where the road is
rough and steep. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that you can't walk because you
must wear "racing shoes" on your "training rides" with your "racing tires"
and the rest of the equipment that prevents you from going to interesting
places.
Ride bike, see the land!
Marc Sabatella
> As I ride up the most scenic car excluded road to Skyline Blvd here on
> Alpine Rd. I get incredulous looks from knobby tired MTB riders in their
> 28-32 gears who, given a chance, say something like "Gee, don't you get a
> lot of flats?" or "Doesn't that ruin your wheels?" It's not that they
> believe this to be true.
Honest question: the Trek road bike manuals say "don't ride this bike except
on paved roads". Is this to give them some protection against lawsuits from
people who fall and hurt themsevles on loose dirt, to protect themselves
against warranty repairs from claims of "it broke under reasonable use", or
what?
--------------
Marc Sabatella (ma...@hpmonk.fc.hp.com)
Disclaimers:
2 + 2 = 3, for suitably small values of 2
Bill (H.) and Dave (P.) may not always agree with me
BRANDT_JOBS...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com
> Honest question: the Trek road bike manuals say "don't ride this bike except
> on paved roads". Is this to give them some protection against lawsuits from
> people who fall and hurt themselves on loose dirt, to protect themselves
> against warranty repairs from claims of "it broke under reasonable use", or
> what?
I guess that's what they have in mind, however, ridden hard, on a typical
secondary paved road causes at least as high stresses in a bike as off road
riding. The exception is crossing up and folding a wheel, something that
happens more often in the dirt. At high speed road shocks, especially while
braking, cause high frame stress and at high frequencies. I suppose that
Trek correctly assumes that a large number of their customers are inexperienced
and might go over the bars in a panic. If it happens on the pavement, there
are reasonable explanations for that. If it happens in the dirt, lawyers can
conjure up myriad scenarios involving manufacturing errors and lack of warnings.
WHere have we gotten ourselves. The bicycle came before the ubiquitous paved
road. Now they don't want you to ride them on their original turf.
Eric House
>Re: Favorite Bay Area Rides
>
>Eric House writes:
>
are paved or not before setting out to ride them -- as I interpreted it --
deleted. I ended by saying that the dirt road from Montebello OSP up
to the dirt section of Montebello Rd. was my idea of a road one couldn't
ride on a road bike. Alas, I made this assertion based on a friend's
description rather than on the strength of experience.]
> Well I don't see that the road up Montebello from Stevens Canyon Trail is
> anything unusual. It is steep but reasonably smooth and has good traction.
As several people have pointed out, that road isn't nearly as difficult
as it looks from Page Mill. Next time I want an example of a road that's
tough to ride on a road bike I'll pick one I've tried!
> I don't have a 45t chainwheel but I have ridden up and down that road a
> few times and find it has great scenic merit.
I recall someone once describing your bike as featuring a low of 45x24.
I guess my memory fails me, or you missed the post or chose not to correct
the poster. In my early days of reading this group you posted a description
of your bike; but I don't remember much of it beyond the lack of water bottle
mounts.
> Maybe if you got some
> reasonable tires you could ride on roads that get away from urban traffic,
> out there where the giant redwoods grow and deer and wild turkeys roam.
I run 32c (labled 35c) tires on the set of wheels I use for winter commuting
and general riding that doesn't involve trying to keep up with my racer
friends. I haven't seen any wild turkeys yet, but will conceed that few
things get a Monday morning off to as nice a start as routing my commute
along Stevens Canyon trail.
> As I rode out of Big Basin on Last Chance Rd. this Sunday the waterfalls
> on south Wadell Creak made it clear why someone might name the road that
> way. Sheer cliffs overlap so that they seem to make a box canyon through
> which no road could pass. Through the narrows the creek leaves only a
> small path along the ledge. It's a great place and for those who don't
> like trials riding, you can walk the few hundred yards where the road is
> rough and steep. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that you can't walk because you
> must wear "racing shoes" on your "training rides" with your "racing tires"
> and the rest of the equipment that prevents you from going to interesting
> places.
Let's not get so hostile!
I wear "racing shoes" because I have extremely narrow size 47 feet. Only
Vittoria makes a model that fits -- of the twenty or so that I tried,
anyway. I don't use clipless pedals because I need to be able to ride
in street shoes sometimes; but I can't climb Page Mill in street shoes
without killing my feet. On my "racing tires," see above.
Your frame is, as I recall, a custom job. Mine isn't, but when the time
comes to replace it I may have to go custom in order to get the features
I require to be able to ride offroad when the mood strikes on a
bike that can also comfortably go 250+ miles/day on-road (when a different
mood strikes): 700c wheel size; clearance for 32 or 35c tires with some to
spare in case a wheel gets out of true when I'm hundreds of miles from
my truing stand (I'm not good enough at wheelbuilding yet to get more
than a couple thousand miles between touchups); brazeons for racks front
and rear; holes for sidepull brakes; etc. As far as I know, frames like
my 10-year-old Univega are no longer available off-the-shelf, primarily
because it is now assumed that people who ride off-road do so on mountain
bikes which they carry to the trailhead on top of their cars.
The guy who originally asked you to clarify whether the roads you
recommended are paved rides a new custom bike. Except for its long
chainstays, which are that way to ease chainline problems resulting from
his choice of a triple crank, it is pretty racy and may not have clearance
for tires that might reasonably go off road. So you might argue that he
missed an opportunity to spec out a bike that would prevent his having to
worry aloud what kind of surface a road has. But there are plenty of
folks out here who, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with
some adolescent need to be "training" on "racing tires" though they don't
race, have equipment that doesn't handle dirt as well as yours. My
response to your post was an exasperated attempt to ask you to cut them
some slack, and not to pretend that they deserve to get all the way to
some road you've recommended, only to find out that it is (for them)
impassible, as some sort of punishment for having contributed to the
demise of the more versatile bikes of yesteryear.
BTW, I don't see Last Chance Rd. on the damned AAA maps I rely on. What
maps do people use to get a larger selection of roads, paved and not, on
which to
> Ride bike, see the land!
BRANDT_JOBS...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com
> BTW, I don't see Last Chance Rd. on the damned AAA maps I rely on. What
> maps do people use to get a larger selection of roads, paved and not, on
> which to > Ride bike, see the land!
For the big picture AAA Peninsula Points is a good map but to get the true
picture see your Realtor who has maps that show what you really want to
know. If they can't give you directions to it they can't sell the property.
Therefore, Realty maps go into fine detail.
On the other hand, if you want to try Last Chance Road, take the Blooms
Creek Campground (paved) road and follow it until pavement ends. This is
really Hinn Hammond Rd. but it isn't so marked until farther out. Don't
take the paved left turn that goes down to the sewage treatment plant but
continue up the unpaved portion until the first left. A sign says "Not a
through trail" because Last Chance is outside the park. It is a community
road supported by the many people who live there but it isn't maintained
for the first two miles. It runs along the ridge south of Wadell Creek and
stays at about 1000 feet for most of its length.
As I mentioned, it can be ridden on a road bike if you are so inclined.
Joseph M. Cipale
the editor, Ed Pahvelkha I believe, wrote about how many D****-S****
are sueing bike manufactuers over real intelligent tricks; ie the fellow who
was riding his wife on the front handlebars of his road bike, she fell off,
hurt her shoulder or something like that, sued the manufacturer for "failure
to warn that thiat type of riding can cause injury" and, worst of all,
won the lawsuit.
Just goes to show that it is 1% of the morons that give the otehr particiapnts
a bad name.
Joe Cipale
Ken Lee
|> was riding his wife on the front handlebars of his road bike, she fell off,
|> hurt her shoulder or something like that, sued the manufacturer for "failure
|> to warn that thiat type of riding can cause injury" and, worst of all,
|> won the lawsuit.
Sometimes I wonder about cases like this. Did the bicyclist just
decide to sue the bike company, or did his insurance company make him
do it? Just curious.
--
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: kl...@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
William D. Bushnell
>For the big picture AAA Peninsula Points is a good map but to get the true
>picture see your Realtor who has maps that show what you really want to
>know. If they can't give you directions to it they can't sell the property.
>Therefore, Realty maps go into fine detail.
The USGS 7.5 minute topo maps cover the region around Big Basin in great
detail. In addition to showing most roads and "jeep" trails, they also show
contours, elevation, vegetation, and other features. Unfortunately, they don't
show property boundaries. The maps covering the area include: "Franklin Point",
"Big Basin", "Davenport", and "Ano Nuevo".
>On the other hand, if you want to try Last Chance Road, take the Blooms
>Creek Campground (paved) road and follow it until pavement ends. This is
>really Hinn Hammond Rd. but it isn't so marked until farther out. Don't
>take the paved left turn that goes down to the sewage treatment plant but
>continue up the unpaved portion until the first left. A sign says "Not a
>through trail" because Last Chance is outside the park. It is a community
>road supported by the many people who live there but it isn't maintained
>for the first two miles. It runs along the ridge south of Wadell Creek and
>stays at about 1000 feet for most of its length.
I have always wanted to try some of the "unimproved" roads in the wilder and
more remote areas of the Santa Cruz Mtns., but I don't have a mountain bike,
and I don't know what the conditions of some of the roads are. My only bike is
a 1991 Bridgestone RB-T shod with Avocet DURO 32c slicks. Bridgestone
advertises that this bike "does fine on trails, too", so I assume it can handle
an evenly graded dirt road.
We've heard about east Alpine Rd., and Last Chance Rd., but what about Gazos
Creek Rd., China Grade Rd., Johansen Rd., Old Haul Rd., and others? It would
be great to do a loop from Palo Alto down to Big Basin and out Gazos Creek Rd.
to Cloverdale an back via Pescadero and west Alpine Rds. Is Gazos Creek Rd.
easily passable on a road bike? Johansen Rd. connects Gazos Creek Rd. to China
Grade Rd., according to the Big Basin topo map. And, it looks as if one could
ride up China Grade Rd. to Butano Ridge and then down an unnamed road to
Old Haul Rd. and out through Memorial County Park or Portola State Park. I
hiked down the unnamed road from Butano Ridge to Old Haul Rd. several years ago
when the land was apparently owned by the Santa Cruz Lumber Co. I hiked
heedless of Keep Out signs that warned, "Prosecutors will be Violated" :-) or
some such. Is this area open to bicyclists now? Could anyone who has ridden
these roads recently report on their condition?
In the Los Gatos area, is it possible to ride to the top of Mt. Umunhum?
Seven years ago I was hiking in the area (from the Lake Elsinore side), I was
stopped about a mile from the summit by some old hick who threatened to call
the Sheriff unless I disappeared fast.
What precautions, if any, should I take with my bike if plan to ride any
distance on unimproved roads? e.g. Should I maintain the usual high tire
pressure? Should I install Mr. Tuffy tire liners?
--
bush...@lmsc.lockheed.com (Bill Bushnell)
David Casseres
[Responding to Eric House]
> ...I don't know why you would
> choose to ride around on 700-18's that snake bite just from crossing the
> centerline on a Botts dot.
In fact, Eric doesn't ride 18's. I think he's riding 28's or so these
days (right, Eric?).
Eric is talking about other riders, whom he respects even if they have a
different
riding style. Why can't you do that?
> Well I don't see that the road up Montebello from Stevens Canyon Trail is
> anything unusual. It is steep but reasonably smooth and has good
traction.
Can you conceive of the possibility that it might be difficult for some
rider who
cannot do what you do, but is still a worthwhile person and entitled to
ride a
bicycle and talk about it with other people?
> I don't have a 45t chainwheel but I have ridden up and down that road a
> few times and find it has great scenic merit. Maybe if you got some
> reasonable tires you could ride on roads that get away from urban
traffic,
> out there where the giant redwoods grow and deer and wild turkeys roam.
It does indeed have great scenic merit. I've ridden it myself, on 23c
slicks. I still
think it's a dirty trick to describe such a road as a great ride without
even mentioning
that it's unpaved. I wound up walking down the steepest descent, made out
of loose egg-
size rocks, in my cleated shoes. I got myself into it out of curiosity,
so I didn't complain,
but if someone had sent me there by just saying "it has great scenic merit
and no cars,"
I would have had a few words to say to him afterward.
The unpaved part of Alpine Road has also come up several times in this
discussion. You and another poster have emphasized that you enjoy riding
up it, but discreetly avoid mention of what it would be like to descend,
on a road bike with road tires. I also enjoy riding up Alpine, and I see
other road bikes going up. And I see a lot of mountain bikes descending,
but I've never seen a road bike descending. Why? It certainly isn't
impossible. I bet I could do it myself, and I'm no Tomac or even a
Brandt. But I'm damn sure it wouldn't be any fun. We do ride these roads
for fun, don't we?
> As I rode out of Big Basin on Last Chance Rd. this Sunday...
> [description of a beautiful place]
> ...Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that you can't walk because you
> must wear "racing shoes" on your "training rides" with your "racing
tires"
> and the rest of the equipment that prevents you from going to interesting
> places.
If you had any idea about who you are trying to roast, you wouldn't make
such a damn
fool of yourself, Jobst. Eric rides Black Mountain on his road bike for
the enjoyment
of it, he doesn't ride racing equipment most of the time, and he certainly
doesn't have
the attitude or the problems you ascribe to him.
David Casseres
Exclaimer: Yow!
BRANDT_JOBS...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com
> ...
> was riding his wife on the front handlebars of his road bike, she fell off,
> ...
Wow! It's good she wasn't riding on the rear handlebars. That could be
serious trouble. Maybe it was only the front handlebar-set.
BRANDT_JOBS...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com
> We've heard about east Alpine Rd., and Last Chance Rd., but what about Gazos
> Creek Rd., China Grade Rd., Johansen Rd., Old Haul Rd., and others? It would
> be great to do a loop from Palo Alto down to Big Basin and out Gazos Creek Rd.
> ...
Yes these roads are a regular part of rides I and my friends go on regularly.
I think there isn't much you can't ride on a road bike in that respect. The
limitation isn't the bike but the rider. I use a road bike with Avocet ROAD
tires and 47-50 : 13..24 gears. This works for up and down the roads you
mention. It doesn't work for up Ward Rd. but then nothing really does because
it is better to walk than ride up the steep pars of that.
The road from China Grade into Pescadero Creek Haul Road is known variously
as Gate 10 Rd (the gate at the top is #10) or Butano Ridge Cutoff. At
China Grade it takes off from Gate 12, goes down about 3/4 mile and climbs
1/2 mile to Gate 10 at which Butano Ridge Rd heads west and Gate 10 Rd goes
down. Santa Cruz Lumber no longer owns that land but much of it is still
private. Bike and Hike access is being negotiated. Meanwhile we ride bike
there.
> In the Los Gatos area, is it possible to ride to the top of Mt. Umunhum?
> Seven years ago I was hiking in the area (from the Lake Elsinore side), I was
> stopped about a mile from the summit by some old hick who threatened to call
> the Sheriff unless I disappeared fast.
Rick Estrada lives in a hovel near the Jct of Loma Prieta and Umunhum roads.
He claims these are on his land and therefore his private property. MROSD
(open space district) owns most of the land on all sides except his small
parcel and Mr. McQueen's antenna farm on Mt. Thayer. McQueen's land also
crosses Mt. Umunhum road and he also claims it as his private property. Both
of these people have the "Get off my land" attitude. MROSD is willing to
wait because Estrada can't last forever. There is no water up there and it's
a tough life. He is a software type who works in the valley.
> What precautions, if any, should I take with my bike if plan to ride any
> distance on unimproved roads? e.g. Should I maintain the usual high tire
> pressure? Should I install Mr. Tuffy tire liners?
Mr. Tuffy is for glass on paved roads. Keep the tires pumped to avoid snake
bites and don't let the terrain slow you down. The rides you mention are
great places to go and they can hardly be done other than on a bike because
they are too far to link up on foot and closed to motor vehicles.
Ride bike!
Jeffrey Weiss
>Yes these roads are a regular part of rides I and my friends go on regularly.
>I think there isn't much you can't ride on a road bike in that respect. The
>limitation isn't the bike but the rider.
When I lived in the Bay Area I too went off paved roads with my road
bike, but on moving to Colorado I decided to get a mt. bike. The
deciding factor for me was not tires, but frame size. My mt. bike
frame is significantly smaller, which makes it much easier to ride
off-road, particularly when things get rough.
--
Jeff
jwe...@ncar.ucar.edu
BRANDT_JOBS...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com
> The unpaved part of Alpine Road has also come up several times in this
> discussion. You and another poster have emphasized that you enjoy riding
> up it, but discreetly avoid mention of what it would be like to descend,
> on a road bike with road tires. I also enjoy riding up Alpine, and I see
> other road bikes going up. And I see a lot of mountain bikes descending,
> but I've never seen a road bike descending. Why? It certainly isn't
> impossible. I bet I could do it myself, and I'm no Tomac or even a
> Brandt. But I'm damn sure it wouldn't be any fun. We do ride these roads
> for fun, don't we?
I think you don't have enough data to make the judgment that road bikes
don't go down Alpine. First, if you look at the tire marks on the road
you'll find almost exclusively fat knobby treads, so you might assume that
relatively few road bikes use the road. Then you might notice that you
see almost no road bikes on the road. Therefore, you can't tell whether
they go down or not.
I use Alpine Rd going down less often because I like the sweeping curves
and the mix of steep and flat sections on Page Mill Rd. I also ride down
Alpine briskly and take the "illegal" trails that have been there about as
long as the road; certainly more then 50 years. MROSD thinks the hill is
going to wash away if they allow bicycles to use them but that is a heap
of misdirected concern. I wish that as much concern would be shown for
the road itself that is allowed to wash away in big gullies. I have done
all the road maintenance you see on Alpine Rd with my shovel and saw. You
can see some major piles of dirt that I have dug out of culvert entrances
over the years.
In that vein, I find it depressing that obstacles on trails and back roads
show clear tire marks where riders have been detouring around obstacles
for a long time, not having the time to take a branch or a pile of rocks
off the road. Saratoga Toll Rd from Saratoga Gap to the San Lorenzo valley
is a typical trail. I can take care of Alpine Rd but some of the more
remote trails I see less often.
Pick up sticks and ride bike!
-8 Doug Landauer 8-
> Creek Rd., China Grade Rd., Johansen Rd., Old Haul Rd., and others?
Gazos Creek is a nice ride on a mountain bike, but there are (were?) several
sandy spots that would be enough to make me not want to do it on a road bike,
if I had one.
> I find it depressing that obstacles on trails and back roads
> show clear tire marks where riders have been detouring around obstacles
> for a long time, not having the time to take a branch or a pile of rocks
> off the road.
> Pick up sticks and ride bike!
Yup, trail mantenance can be fun. Last time we (Sun's Mtn-Bike folks)
went through Henry Cowell park (near Santa Cruz), there was a pair of
downed redwood across the trail -- one was about 8 feet in diameter. Try
picking up *those* sticks!! How large a chainsaw do you usually carry on
your bike, anyway?? :-) On the other hand, we did manage to clear a few
trees that had fallen across the trail at handlebar height, about 6 inches
in diameter, using pocket knives. Next time I'm gonna bring a fold-up
saw.
> Saratoga Toll Rd from Saratoga Gap to the San
> Lorenzo valley is a typical trail.
Unfortunately it's all too typical, right down to the "no bicycles
allowed" signs. [I'm not posting this to pick on you, Jobst -- the trail
wasn't always closed to bikes, and I'm sure you've only been on it before
they closed it.] But I'm afraid that the many cyclists who ignore those
signs are actually helping "the other side" to keep large areas completely
closed to MTBs.
Case in point: the Pogonip, a (Santa Cruz) City-owned area between Henry
Cowell park and UCSC, has a once-paved road through it. It's wide and not
very steep, and should be a fine road even for road bikes to take, as the
shortest ridable route from the San Lorenzo Valley into UCSC. But
bicycles are not currently allowed anywhere in the Pogonip. One of the
anti-bike arguments is that bicyclists will ignore signs that ask them to
stay on the wide, safe road, in order to take the smaller, more fragile
(and more expensive to maintain) trails that branch from it. Leaving
aside the question of access to those smaller trails, the city is keeping
a decent bicycle commute route closed because of (the threat of)
bicyclists who ignore "NO BIKES" signs.
I post this with wider than ".ba" distribution in order to bring up the point
that the consequences of using closed trails can be worse than just "getting
caught" or not.
[My real reason for posting this is, of course, jealousy -- I've wanted
for a long time to check out the Saratoga Toll Road, but those signs have
always kept me off of it. :-) ]
--
Doug Landauer -- land...@eng.sun.com _
Sun Microsystems, Inc. -- STE, SunPro, Languages La no ka 'oi.
Mike Jackson
>In article <920124170...@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP19...@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>>Yes these roads are a regular part of rides I and my friends go on regularly.
>>I think there isn't much you can't ride on a road bike in that respect. The
>>limitation isn't the bike but the rider.
When I lived in the Bay area, my favorite ride was to pack a lunch and take the
ferry over to Angel Island. My wife and I would invite friends to ride with us
and make a day of riding the loop around the island and finding a nice spot to
have a picnic lunch. There were so many excellent views of San Francisco and the
bay, so many interesting places to explore on the island, and such a variety of
terrain available that we had a great time whenever we went there.
Makes me nostalgic just thinking about it...
-Mike
Unix Guru-in-Training
land...@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (-8 Doug Landauer 8-) writes:
>Case in point: the Pogonip, a (Santa Cruz) City-owned area between Henry
>Cowell park and UCSC, has a once-paved road through it. It's wide and not
>very steep, and should be a fine road even for road bikes to take, as the
>shortest ridable route from the San Lorenzo Valley into UCSC. But
>bicycles are not currently allowed anywhere in the Pogonip. One of the
>anti-bike arguments is that bicyclists will ignore signs that ask them to
>stay on the wide, safe road, in order to take the smaller, more fragile
>(and more expensive to maintain) trails that branch from it.
If you can get your local bike club/activist organization to take it on,
here's one campaign idea -- ride your bikes to the park and then walk
them on the trail. Annoyed the hell out of the park rangers when I did
it at Rockefeller State Park Preserve in NY after they posted "no bikes"
signs. Though we didn't get back the trail access, they did open up one
trail after I pointed out the only other way to visit the park was an
entrance off a 55 mph (really 70 mph in practice) highway.
I was inspired by the NYC bike messengers, when after then-mayor Koch
tried to ban bikes on the main avenues, one of their demos was to
walk 200 bikes at once along 5th Ave, all in a long thin line that
didn't pay attention to traffic lights.
--
Ed Ravin- e...@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
philabs!trintex!elr| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
+1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky. -R. Brautigan
Eric House
>In article <ko146p...@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
>
>If you can get your local bike club/activist organization to take it on,
>here's one campaign idea -- ride your bikes to the park and then walk
>them on the trail. Annoyed the hell out of the park rangers when I did
>it at Rockefeller State Park Preserve in NY after they posted "no bikes"
>signs. Though we didn't get back the trail access, they did open up one
>trail after I pointed out the only other way to visit the park was an
>entrance off a 55 mph (really 70 mph in practice) highway.
>
>I was inspired by the NYC bike messengers, when after then-mayor Koch
>tried to ban bikes on the main avenues, one of their demos was to
>walk 200 bikes at once along 5th Ave, all in a long thin line that
>didn't pay attention to traffic lights.
>--
This raises a question that's been on my mind. If it is illegal to *ride*
a bike on a trail, is it also illegal to *walk* my bike there? I recently
learned of a scenic trail that goes through an open space preserve from
a good road in the valley here to a good road on the ridge. Probably
because horses have torn the sh*t out of the trail, bikes are banned.
But my bike is the only way I can get to the base of the trail. So I can
either lock it up in a thicket near the base and do a round trip hike, or
push/carry the bike along and ride back from the top. What if I get caught
on the trail with my bike?
(I will probably take the bike either way. I'd rather risk a ticket than
leave it locked to some flimsy tree all day.)