Worst book by best author.
Benedict Walmisley
Which seems to have turned into Lets Recommend Frank Herbert books. ] but what
about books which an otherwise good author writes, but is crap.
Well heres my 2p's worth:
Faery Tale - Feist.
I really like Feists stuff, but this is AWFUL. All the Leprechauns and stuff
coming straight out of pseudo Irish mythos.
Better, with simmilar ideas, but still bad:
The Infinity Concerto - Greg Bear.
On a good note - someone DID do this type of scenario well :
Lords and Ladies - Pratchett.
--
Benedict Walmisley
Erik Max Francis
> In article <811811...@wolf.demon.co.uk>,
> Benedict Walmisley <BWalm...@wolf.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >I've been reading the other thread, discussing Best Book by dire author [
> >Which seems to have turned into Lets Recommend Frank Herbert books. ] but wh
> >about books which an otherwise good author writes, but is crap.
>
> _I Will Fear No Evil_, Heinlein.
Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
Erik Max Francis, &tSftDotIotE // uuwest!alcyone!max, m...@alcyone.darkside.com
San Jose, CA, USA // 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W // GIGO, Omega, Psi // the 4th R!
H.3`S,3,P,3$S,#$Q,C`Q,3,P,3$S,#$Q,3`Q,3,P,C$Q,#(Q.#`-"C`- // 1love // folasade
_Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt._ // mc2? oo? Nah. // http://www.spies.com/max/
steven miale
Benedict Walmisley <BWalm...@wolf.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I've been reading the other thread, discussing Best Book by dire author [
>about books which an otherwise good author writes, but is crap.
_I Will Fear No Evil_, Heinlein.
Steve
Alan S. Ward
No that should read everything after "The moon is a harsh mistress" with
the possible exception of "Time enough for love".
While I think that Heinleins early works range from good to unbeatable,
his later stuff (as per above) is dire. It is on the whole, self indulgent,
sex obssesed rubbish. The worst thing is that some of the basic concepts are
interesting and in his earlier days I suspect he would have done them much more
justice.
Dr Morbius
--
Morbius, Dr | ALTAIR4 - % % %%%% %%%%%% %
Bellerophon Expedition Philologist | Home of the % % % % % %
"I am not responsible for the % % %%%%% %%%% %
actions of my subconscious" % % % % % %
<---Alan S. Ward, London, Uk------> % % % % %%%%%% %%%%%%
Matt McIrvin
Alan S. Ward <al...@altair4.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>No that should read everything after "The moon is a harsh mistress" with
>the possible exception of "Time enough for love".
>
>While I think that Heinleins early works range from good to unbeatable,
>his later stuff (as per above) is dire. It is on the whole, self indulgent,
>sex obssesed rubbish. The worst thing is that some of the basic concepts are
>interesting and in his earlier days I suspect he would have done them much more
>justice.
IMHO, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ is an anomaly; other than that,
which is his best novel (that I've read, at least), Heinlein's writing
had already begun to deteriorate years before, about halfway through
_Stranger in a Strange Land_.
Actually, I'm not so sure that the trend was entirely chronological.
The first half of _The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_, for instance, is
pretty good. The problem was that Heinlein was a nearly peerless
hard-SF writer, and a diverting writer of less-hard SF, but a not so
very good fantasy writer; and as his stories ventured further into the
purely fantastic, they got worse.
Even his earlier fantasy stories are, IMHO, below his par; for
instance, "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag" is OK but
overlong and meandering, and "The Man Who Traveled In Elephants" comes
across as a parody of Ray Bradbury on a bad day (I don't know, perhaps
it was intended as such, in which case it's brilliant). Late in
Heinlein's career, he just got bored with hard SF and became mired in
increasingly unrestrained fantasy, with disastrous results.
It would have worked for a different writer (Greg Bear comes to mind
as a nominally hard-SF author who actually does better with pure
fantasy-- read "Petra," "Sleepside Story," and "Dead Run" as
evidence), but not for Heinlein.
--
Matt 01234567 <-- Indent-o-Meter
McIrvin ^ Tab damage as window on reality!
Jocelyn Goldfein
-Jocelyn
Charles Dye
"Best author" leaves very little room to maneuver ... "Worst book by best
author" would be, um, "Operation Ares?"
A much wider category would be "Worst book by a widely known SF author."
I nominate "Firefly" by Piers Anthony ... a book that made me look at
Hitler's method of literary criticism in a whole new light.
Roberta and Craig Becker
bad book by a really good author?" In which case I'd like to nominate
_The Hemingway Hoax_ by Joe Haldeman. Pheeeuuuwwww! Wotta stinker!
Craig
--
-- Craig Becker bec...@austin.ibm.com Austin, TX USA --
-- 'Literal immortality? Outliving the universe?' 'That's what the word --
-- means. Not: dying after a very long time. Just: not dying, period.' --
Jim_...@transarc.com
> Better, with simmilar ideas, but still bad:
> The Infinity Concerto - Greg Bear.
>
I disagree. The Infinity Concerto is a great book. It is a wonderfully
original book and the book that made me a Greg Bear fan.
******************************************************************
Jim Mann jm...@transarc.com
Transarc Corporation
The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 (412) 338-4442
WWW Homepage: http://www.transarc.com/~jmann/Home.html
Arthur Hlavaty
youa nd what have you done with Alfie?
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius In Wile E. We Trust
\\\ E-zine available on request. ///
Janewaay
smi...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (steven miale) writes:
>In article <811811...@wolf.demon.co.uk>,
>Benedict Walmisley <BWalm...@wolf.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>I've been reading the other thread, discussing Best Book by dire author
[
>>Which seems to have turned into Lets Recommend Frank Herbert books. ]
but
>what
>>about books which an otherwise good author writes, but is crap.
>
>_I Will Fear No Evil_, Heinlein.
Naah, IWFNE is a strong contender, but I think _Number of the Beast_ is
definitely the worst.
**/**
>>what
>>>about books which an otherwise good author writes, but is crap.
>>
>>_I Will Fear No Evil_, Heinlein.
>
>Naah, IWFNE is a strong contender, but I think _Number of the Beast_ is
>definitely the worst.
_I Will Fear No Evil_ was trash, and _Number of the Beast_
annoying, but _Sixth Column_ was shameful (though redeemed by subsequent
work).
______________________________________________________________________
Obe...@uwyo.edu |"Your mouth, is your religion, you |
GIS Technician to the Stars | put your faith in a hole like that?"|
Past, Present, and Future | Frank Zappa |************************
**********************************************
Adam Smith
: Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
The Niven/Pournelle/Flynn collaboration _Fallen Angels_ makes
_Achilles Choice_ look like _Ringworld_.
Adam
steven miale
Erik Max Francis <m...@alcyone.darkside.com> wrote:
>Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
Barnes' _Orbital Resonance_ was fairly painful as well.
Steve
Joel Upchurch
obe...@UWYO.EDU (**/\**) wrote:
> _I Will Fear No Evil_ was trash, and _Number of the Beast_
>annoying, but _Sixth Column_ was shameful (though redeemed by subsequent
>work).
I think there is a danger here in retroactively applying current
standards. By current standards "Sixth Column" would have to be
considered racist drivel, but compared to what was in the main-
stream media at the time it wasn't that bad. In 1941 the media
was full of anti Japanese propaganda and even the truthful
information coming out of places like China was hardly very
flattering.
In any case most of the racist stuff came from Campbell, not
Heinlein. Heinlein wasn't in a financial position to say no,
but he tried to tone it down and introduce sympathetic
characters like Frank Mitsui.
____________________________________________________________________________
Joel Upchurch @ Upchurch Computer Consulting jo...@oo.com 28 27 23 N
718 Galsworthy Ave. Orlando, FL 32809-6429 phone (407) 859-0982 81 23 11 W
Ken Moore
joc...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU "Jocelyn Goldfein" writes:
> Hart's Hope, by Orson Scott Card. Yes, early, but... bleah.
I don't think the writing is bad, but I find the plot very depressing.
I think I would even re-read "Xenocide" in preference to HH.
--
Ken Moore
Darren Goossens
Jim_...@transarc.com
Different Barnes. And I thought Orbital Resonance ranked with Rite of
Passage as one of the two best Heinlein novels of the last 25
years. (Both, are in their own ways, Podykane done right.) I enjoyed
it a lot (and so, I believe did the Nebula voters, who put it on the
Nebula ballot).
Curt Wohleber
: Earth is Room Enough
Isn't that a short story collection by Asimov? I'd put one of his
later novels or collections ahead of that one in the worst book/best
author category. Asimov got pretty stale toward the end, but I
don't think any of his books are as outright unreadable as some of
Heinlein's stinkers.
--
Curt Wohleber | wohl...@blarg.net | 314.442.5777
Columbia, Missouri | http://www.blarg.net/~wohleber
Cecil Rose
>Erik Max Francis (m...@alcyone.darkside.com) wrote:
>: Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
>The Niven/Pournelle/Flynn collaboration _Fallen Angels_ makes
>_Achilles Choice_ look like _Ringworld_.
Fallen Angels is really faan fiction disguised as pro fiction.
Everybody in it (the good guys, anyway) is recognizable fan with name
changed. As such, it is an enjoyable romp.
Cecil Rose
ala...@earthlink.net
Carson, California
Cuivie
(Stephen Dedman) writes:
>I'd like
>to vote for EVERYTHING post-humously attributed to JRR Tolkien.
Actually, I think that JRR would NEVER have published any of that stuff
with the possible exception of _The Silmarillion_ (which read like a
history textbook!). After all, much of the stuff were his *notes*, fcol!
Lisa
"In cyberspace no one can hear you mispronounce Cuivie"
Cuivie
writes:
>n article <447urr$5...@news.bu.edu>, Adam Smith <acs...@engc.bu.edu>
wrote:
>>Erik Max Francis (m...@alcyone.darkside.com) wrote:
>>
>>: Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
>>
>>The Niven/Pournelle/Flynn collaboration _Fallen Angels_ makes
>>_Achilles Choice_ look like _Ringworld_.
>>
>>Adam
>>
> I agree. I have read every other book that Niven & Pournelle have
written,
> and even have most of their books in hardcover.
My husband and I often feel that Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle should be
chained to a word processor and forced to write continuously, as there
will NEVER be enough of their _fine_ work.
But let another author join that magic duo and everyone's brain seems to
fall out! (With the exception of _The Legacy of Heorot_ by
Niven/Pournelle/Barnes, a great book).
M J Drew
: In article <1995Sep25.1...@roper.uwyo.edu>,
: obe...@UWYO.EDU (**/\**) wrote:
: > _I Will Fear No Evil_ was trash, and _Number of the Beast_
: >annoying, but _Sixth Column_ was shameful (though redeemed by subsequent
: >work).
: I think there is a danger here in retroactively applying current
: standards. By current standards "Sixth Column" would have to be
: considered racist drivel, but compared to what was in the main-
: stream media at the time it wasn't that bad. In 1941 the media
: was full of anti Japanese propaganda and even the truthful
: information coming out of places like China was hardly very
: flattering.
: In any case most of the racist stuff came from Campbell, not
: Heinlein. Heinlein wasn't in a financial position to say no,
: but he tried to tone it down and introduce sympathetic
: characters like Frank Mitsui.
I have seen several comment from Heinlein that he did not rate this book
because of having to follow Cambell's prejudices. Must admit that I liked
it as a fast paced adventure.
--
Mike Drew
Itamar Shtull-Trauring
>Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
Actually, also _Lucifer's Hammer_ and _Footfall_ by Niven & Pournelle.
Other than the fact that they are exactly the same book - same kind of
characters, same plot elements, same kind of ending.
If you compare them to _Mote in God's Eye_ it's amazing.
-------------------------------------------
Itamar S.-T. max...@netvision.net.il
Courtesy of Maxima New Media
-------------------------------------------
Fishman Michael
>Erik Max Francis (m...@alcyone.darkside.com) wrote:
>: Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
>The Niven/Pournelle/Flynn collaboration _Fallen Angels_ makes
>_Achilles Choice_ look like _Ringworld_.
Speak for yourself. That book is prophetic, as well as fun to read.
Jonathan Strahan
Alfred Bester, surely not a golden moment for a great writer. Or even, I
Will Fear No Evil by Robert Heinlein.
firefly
> smi...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (steven miale) writes:
> > In article <FiywBD...@alcyone.darkside.com>,
> > >Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
> >
>
> Different Barnes. And I thought Orbital Resonance ranked with Rite of
> Passage as one of the two best Heinlein novels of the last 25
> years. (Both, are in their own ways, Podykane done right.) I enjoyed
> it a lot (and so, I believe did the Nebula voters, who put it on the
> Nebula ballot).
>
> ******************************************************************
> Jim Mann jm...@transarc.com
> Transarc Corporation
> The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 (412) 338-4442
> WWW Homepage: http://www.transarc.com/~jmann/Home.html
>
>>>>
in homage to Heinlein by Alexei Panshin?
susan
David B Waller
Philip Dick, for all his greatness, wrote some of the worst sci-fi ever
published--especially that dreadful novel 'We Can Build You.'
-Dave (#1 PKD fan)
David Thomas Richard Given
Gary Hayenga <ghay...@earth.execpc.com> wrote:
>In article <445m2o$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jane...@aol.com (Janewaay)
>wrote:
>
>
>> Naah, IWFNE is a strong contender, but I think _Number of the Beast_ is
>> definitely the worst.
>
Same here. NOB is definitely his worst book (but then, _To go beyond the
sunset_, _The cat who walked through walls_, _Job_, _I will fear no
evil_, and just about all his later stuff are the worst, too.)
--
Why do people surf the Information | GCS -d+(?)(++) p(-+)(---) c++++ !l+(+)
Superhighway? Won't they get run | u++ e*(++) m*(++) s !n h+(++) f+ g+
over? | w+(+++) t--(+) r y? (Archimedes owner)
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk:80/~www_sa/socs/virtual (Use at your own risk)
Jim_...@transarc.com
ded...@perth.DIALix.oz.au (Stephen Dedman) writes:
> I agree with the comments about Bester and Heinlein, but I'd like
> the Rings_, _The Hobbit_, and _Farmer Giles of Ham_ almost qualify for 'best
> books by worst author' status :-)
>
I disagree. The Simarillion is very good, in its own way as good as
the Lord of the Rings. And the other stuff is fragments, early drafts,
and so forth, and should be taken as such.
Roberta and Craig Becker
: Same here. NOB is definitely his worst book (but then, _To go beyond the
: evil_, and just about all his later stuff are the worst, too.)
Funny...I thought _Job_ was one of the best things he'd ever written.
(can't disagree with the rest, though)
Karl J Hiller
It's not horrible, but his later stuff soars over it. It feels like he
hadn't gotten a grip on plotting yet.
Brand
Scott Jeter
>
> pretty good. The problem was that Heinlein was a nearly peerless
> hard-SF writer, and a diverting writer of less-hard SF, but a not so
> very good fantasy writer; and as his stories ventured further into the
> purely fantastic, they got worse.
Heinlein never considered himself a sf writer. He considered his writing
speculative fiction. He was not a 'hard' sf writer. His stories are all
about the sociological effects of advances in technology whether social,
legal, medical, or otherwise. In THIS he is peerless. The only place
where he delves into 'hard' sf is in the background of his stories.
> Even his earlier fantasy stories are, IMHO, below his par; for
> instance, "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag" is OK but
> overlong and meandering, and "The Man Who Traveled In Elephants" comes
> across as a parody of Ray Bradbury on a bad day (I don't know, perhaps
> it was intended as such, in which case it's brilliant). Late in
> Heinlein's career, he just got bored with hard SF and became mired in
> increasingly unrestrained fantasy, with disastrous results.
You are entirely entitled to your opinion of course, but I do not agree.
I will agreee that his best, most artistic that is, is his short
stories. His long works, though perhaps less literary, are entirely
entertaining. especially as a look at moral attitudes as they change over
time.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: Scott Jeter ::
:: sje...@odin.cbu.edu ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::
Stephen Dedman
>> Jim_...@transarc.com writes:
>> smi...@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (steven miale) writes:
>> > In article <FiywBD...@alcyone.darkside.com>,
>> > Erik Max Francis <m...@alcyone.darkside.com> wrote:
>> > >Niven & Barnes' _Achilles Choice_ was pretty pitiful.
>> >
>> > Barnes' _Orbital Resonance_ was fairly painful as well.
>>
>> Different Barnes. And I thought Orbital Resonance ranked with Rite of
>> Passage as one of the two best Heinlein novels of the last 25
>> years. (Both, are in their own ways, Podykane done right.) I enjoyed
>> it a lot (and so, I believe did the Nebula voters, who put it on the
>> Nebula ballot).
>>
>> ******************************************************************
>> Jim Mann jm...@transarc.com
>> Transarc Corporation
>> The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 (412) 338-4442
>> WWW Homepage: http://www.transarc.com/~jmann/Home.html
>>
>>>>>
>Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't _Rite of Passage_ a novel written
>in homage to Heinlein by Alexei Panshin?
>susan
I guess that depends on your definition of 'homage'. Panshin wrote a book
of criticism of Heinlein's early work (I think it was called 'Heinlein in
Dimension'; it's been many years since I read it), in which he slammed
_Podkayne_, especially its characterisation (he much preferred Peewee in
_Have Space Suit, Will Travel_). I don't know if _Rite of Passage_ was
his attempt to prove he could do better; if it was, IMHO, he succeeded
admirably. (BTW, I also loved _HSS,WT_ and many of Heinlein's other books,
but thought _Podkayne_ was abominable.)
- Stephen Dedman
- Just my opinions, but they're for sale if you want them -
Eric Cohen
: _The Drawing of the Dark_, by Tim Powers.
: It's not horrible, but his later stuff soars over it. It feels like he
: hadn't gotten a grip on plotting yet.
Hee-hee! Shows us the pitfalls of threads like these. _The Drawing of
the Dark_ is one of my *favorite* Powers's -- probably ranks only behind
_The Anubis Gates_ on my all time list.
Now, how about _Wolfbane_, by Frederik Pohl and C.M. Kornbluth? Those
two are among the best we've ever had, but that book is...well...Awful?
Pointless, predictable, and sort of random where it isn't?
--Eric | "You wanna know about rutabagas, I'll tell you about rutabagas.
eac@ | You wanna know how to make a correct revolution? Me too."
eastgate |
.com | --Mark Kramer, _Mother Walter and the Pig Tragedy_, p.189
Ken Moore
sje...@odin.cbu.edu "Scott Jeter" writes:
> Heinlein never considered himself a sf writer. He considered his writing
> speculative fiction. He was not a 'hard' sf writer.
What about "Blow-ups Happen"? I consider that hard sf and an amazingly
accurate prediction: a runaway nuclear power station described c 1941!
(IIRC)
--
Ken Moore
Arthur Hlavaty
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius In Wile E. We Trust
\\\ E-zine available on request. ///
Mary-karen Reid
: _The Drawing of the Dark_, by Tim Powers.
: It's not horrible, but his later stuff soars over it. It feels like he
: hadn't gotten a grip on plotting yet.
Actually, any book about the mystic power of beer can't go wrong. It
wasn't a great book, and his later stuff tends to eclipse it, but when I
look at some of the other crap being touted as great SF or fantasy, it
looks F***ing wonderful.
m-k
: Brand
Eric Cohen
: RITE OF PASSAGE was PODKAYNE with a nonemetic narrator. An accomplishment.
^^^^^^^^^
Please to explain?
Matt Hickman
>Arthur Hlavaty (hla...@panix.com) wrote:
>: RITE OF PASSAGE was PODKAYNE with a nonemetic narrator. An accomplishment.
> ^^^^^^^^^
>Please to explain?
Seems that Poddy makes the guy gag. Personally, I find Panshin
endemically emetic.
Matt Hickman bh...@chevron.com TANSTAAFL!
OS/2 Systems Specialist, Chevron Information Technologies Co.
...its a hell of a note when you can't even kill a dragon and
feel lighthearted afterwards.
Robert A. Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
_Glory Road_ 1963
Jo Walton
> Arthur Hlavaty (hla...@panix.com) wrote:
> : RITE OF PASSAGE was PODKAYNE with a nonemetic narrator. An accomplishment.
> ^^^^^^^^^
> Please to explain?
I think he means "not-sickly". I think _Rite of Passage_ is rather more than
that, myself, but the 1st person teenage girl narrator is neither sickly, nor
sickening.
--
Jo
***************************************************
- - I kissed a kif at Kefk - -
***************************************************
Steve Thomas
Xenocide by Card (sure won't rush to read *any* more Card).
White Gold Wielder by Donaldson (the only once-admired authour
I have *no* use for anymore).
Escape from Katmandu by Kim Stanley Robinson.
sfthomas (ottawa, canada)
bx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
Jim_...@transarc.com
Do you remember the story well? First of all, it wasn't a nuclear
power station. It was a station producing nuclear materials. Second,
the details were completely wrong. Now, this isn't a fault in the
story, but it certainly means that the story was NOT an accurate
prediction.
Karl J Hiller
Oh, sure! I was just picking what I thought was his worst book, since I
chose him as best author.
I would have picked Gene Wolfe as best author (IMO, he is), but I don't
feel qualified to comment on what his worst book might be (I only have an
undergraduate degree in English! :):) Whatever I picked, it would
probably just end up that I didn't understand it (Castleview springs to
mind -- it left me totally baffled. Hmmn... Maybe I'll ask around and
see if anyone else "got it"...)
Brand
Arthur Hlavaty
: > Arthur Hlavaty (hla...@panix.com) wrote:
: > : RITE OF PASSAGE was PODKAYNE with a nonemetic narrator.
: > : An accomplishment.
: > ^^^^^^^^^
: > Please to explain?
: I think he means "not-sickly". I think _Rite of Passage_ is rather more
: than that, myself, but the 1st person teenage girl narrator is neither
: sickly, nor sickening.
Just about. I found Podkayne's prose sickening. Other than that, I rtaher
liked the book, as it featured a competent female protagonist at a time
when such hardly existed in sf, and almost not at all in Young Adult sf.
In other words, I thought that *Rite of Passage* resembled a good, but
flawed book, in all but the flaw.
Bob McQueer
: In article <444jhr$3...@Radon.Stanford.EDU>
: joc...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU "Jocelyn Goldfein" writes:
: > Hart's Hope, by Orson Scott Card. Yes, early, but... bleah.
: I don't think the writing is bad, but I find the plot very depressing.
: I think I would even re-read "Xenocide" in preference to HH.
: --
: Ken Moore
Boy, do we disagree. I consider "Hart's Hope" a gem, among the best
things that Card has written, on the other hand, "Wyrms" ...
Some other candidates for lousy books by usually good authors:
"Players at the Game of People" and "The Web of Everywhere" by the late
John Brunner. Actually, Brunner would be my candidate for the author
with the greatest gulf between his best and worst stuff. He wrote some
of the absolute best, but when he produced a dog it truly howled at the
moon.
"The Deceivers" by Alfred Bester. Utterly awful. Even worse than "Golem
100" which at least had an interesting setting (coupled to a horribly
silly plot).
"Son of Man", by Robert Silverberg. It is encouraging that Silverberg
has generally improved as he's gotten older (GENERALLY, mind you, the
ending to "Face of the Waters" was extremely annoying). Not everybody
burns out.
--
| and with these words
Bob McQueer | we parted each feeling
m...@netcom.com | superior to the other and is not that
| feeling after all one of the great
| desiderata of social intercourse
| archy
Curt Bousquet
>
>Steve Thomas <bx...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>>Xenocide by Card (sure won't rush to read *any* more Card).
>
>Strange how tastes differ...
Actually, I enjoyed Xenocide, but would nominate 'Lost Boys' of
Card's to the catagory. It almost turned me off him altogether...
I continued to read *Knowing* it must get better until the last
preachy disappointing page...... :(
The book -was- heavy enough to fly a good 20 feet, and the dog
seems to rather like the taste. I wish I could get rid of it,
but he keeps bringing it back!!
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * This e-mail was printed on
Curt Bousquet Putney, Vermont USA * 100% recycled electrons
scan...@sover.net (802)387-4249 * ---------------------------
http://www.sover.net/~scanline/ * No electrons were harmed during
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * the production of this message.
Elisabeth Carey
>> Jim_...@transarc.com writes:
>> Different Barnes. And I thought Orbital Resonance ranked with Rite of
>> Passage as one of the two best Heinlein novels of the last 25
>> years. (Both, are in their own ways, Podykane done right.) I enjoyed
>> it a lot (and so, I believe did the Nebula voters, who put it on the
>> Nebula ballot).
>>>>>
>Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't _Rite of Passage_ a novel written
>in homage to Heinlein by Alexei Panshin?
I think you're right, but I think _I'm_ missing something. Perhaps I'm
confused about what your point is.
I don't quite see how Panshin's book being an homage to Heinlein
precludes it being a better book. Heinlein wrote a very good book with
some serious flaws; Panshin, even though he never managed it again in
fiction, wrote a very good book _without_ those flaws.
/s/ Elisabeth Carey
firefly
paragraph, but not the first...better book... paragraph. I happen to agree that
_Passage_ is superior to many of heinlein's work along similar themes...if
this isn't the question you want answered, please let me know!
susan
(incidentally, _Rite of Passage_ could very well be included on the 'Best book
by bad author' list, IMHO...)
Jim_...@transarc.com
> flo...@usa.net(firefly) wrote:
> >> Jim_...@transarc.com writes:
>
> >> Different Barnes. And I thought Orbital Resonance ranked with Rite of
> >> Passage as one of the two best Heinlein novels of the last 25
> >> years. (Both, are in their own ways, Podykane done right.) I enjoyed
> >> it a lot (and so, I believe did the Nebula voters, who put it on the
> >> Nebula ballot).
>
> >>>>>
> >Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't _Rite of Passage_ a novel written
> >in homage to Heinlein by Alexei Panshin?
>
> I think you're right, but I think _I'm_ missing something. Perhaps I'm
> confused about what your point is.
>
> I don't quite see how Panshin's book being an homage to Heinlein
> precludes it being a better book. Heinlein wrote a very good book with
> some serious flaws;
Heinlein wrote serveral very good books with some serious
flaws. Unfortunately, Podykane isn't one of them. It is a so-so book
with some serious flaws.
Panshin, even though he never managed it again in
> fiction, wrote a very good book _without_ those flaws.
I agree. Panshin's other books are not near as good as Rite of
Passage.
Steve Taylor
> Now, KSR's _The Memory of Whiteness_ is to make a body puke, and I am
> thrilled to be reminded of such a worthy entry for this thread.
Looks like there are no limits to how much people can disagree:
Memory of Whiteness blew me away - it gave me the sort of psychological
shock of having my feet kicked out from under that I normally only get
from Philip Dick (hmmm... that might just be the clumsiest sentence I've
ever written) *and* gave me a pleasantly nostalgic flashback to Delanys
"Time Considered as a Helix of Semi Precious Stones".
> --Eric
Steve
Paul Floriani
>In article <ghayenga-260...@lamprey.execpc.com>,
>Gary Hayenga <ghay...@earth.execpc.com> wrote:
>>In article <445m2o$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jane...@aol.com (Janewaay)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Naah, IWFNE is a strong contender, but I think _Number of the Beast_ is
>>> definitely the worst.
>>
>>Second the nomination.
>
>Same here. NOB is definitely his worst book (but then, _To go beyond the
>sunset_, _The cat who walked through walls_, _Job_, _I will fear no
>evil_, and just about all his later stuff are the worst, too.)
>--
>Why do people surf the Information | GCS -d+(?)(++) p(-+)(---) c++++ !l+(+)
>Superhighway? Won't they get run | u++ e*(++) m*(++) s !n h+(++) f+ g+
>over? | w+(+++) t--(+) r y? (Archimedes owner)
>http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk:80/~www_sa/socs/virtual (Use at your own risk)
I disagree; NotB at least one character I liked (Zeb) and I enjoyed the
story up until the first arguments over who was going to lead the group
started.
I didn't read "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" until after RAH had died. After
I read it, and as it was sailing unerringly toward the trash can (the first
and only time I've ever done that) what I mostly felt was sadness that my
favorite author wouldn't have a chance to make up for that unfortunate
concatenation of words. I mentally "Highlander II"'d it as I pulled down
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and settled down with a book I'd happily
remember him by.
Paul Floriani
pflo...@us.oracle.com
Christian Weisgerber
> Can't think of anything by Stanisl/aw Lem (there are some early novels that
> I haven't read, though). The guy is uniformly brilliant.
ASTRONAUCI (The Astronauts) has many weaknesses, namely ridiculous
science, hopeless naïvité, and bad characterization.
See also <URL:http://www.rhein-neckar.de/~mips/books.html#Astro>.
--
Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber na...@mips.pfalz.de
See another pointless homepage at http://www.rhein-neckar.de/~mips/.
-- currently reading: Philip José Farmer, The Gates of Creation --
Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew
> iv...@franklin.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Ilya Vinarsky) writes:
>
> > Can't think of anything by Stanisl/aw Lem (there are some early novels that
> > I haven't read, though). The guy is uniformly brilliant.
>
> ASTRONAUCI (The Astronauts) has many weaknesses, namely ridiculous
Yup. His first SF book, 1951. But not as bad as _Oblok Magellana_ (_The
Magellan Nebula_), 1955, a long and boring Communist utopia.
--
Ahasuerus http://www.clark.net/pub/ahasuer/, including:
FAQs: rec.arts.sf.written, alt.fan.heinlein, alt.pulp, the Liaden Universe
Biblios: how to write SF, the Wandering Jew, miscellaneous SF
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