Juho Julkunen <
giao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jb6rn0$j06$
1...@dont-email.me>,
ku...@busiek.com says...
>>
>> On 2011-11-30 19:02:34 -0800, Juho Julkunen <
giao...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>>> In article <jb6jut$dtu$
2...@dont-email.me>,
ku...@busiek.com says...
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-11-30 14:29:48 -0800, Juho Julkunen <
giao...@hotmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>>> My dislike aside, they are neither good adaptations nor great movies.
>>>>
>>>> Your dislike aside, you disliked them.
>>>
>>> Do you belive that there can be no such thing as valid criticism, that
>>> it all just comes down to like/dislike? Or do you think that I
>>> specifically am incapable of such?
>>
>> I think that saying you're putting your dislike aside and then making
>> two subjective statements is silly.
>
> Why? Because any subjective statement must necessarily be a mere
> restatement of that dislike?
>
> Would it be equally silly to say: "Well, I like it, but honestly it's
> not very good."
No, because that doesn't pretend to put opinion aside.
>> "My opinion aside, here's my opinion."
>
> I think there is a difference between saying "I like this" and "I think
> this is well executed". The first is purely a matter of taste, but the
> second ought to be open to discussion.
>
>> Whether you're capable of more or not, that's certainly not an example of it.
>
> But you imply that anything I'd have to say about the movies could be
> summed up as "I didn't like them".
From here, it looked like I was saying that what you did say about the
movies could be summed up that way. What else you might be able to say
wasn't addressed.
> Do you belive that there can even be such a thing as valid criticism?
I think all artistic criticism is ultimately subjective, but that doesn't
mean it can't be valid -- indeed, criticism can be valid while disagreeing
with other also-valid criticism. But the validity is in the support, the
argument, the contextualization. Valid criticism is interesting because
it's a well-constructed, legitimate argument.
A flat statement of opinion without support isn't valid criticism, it's
simply a statement of opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but claiming that
opinion is being put aside is silly.
> Is it even possible for me to show anything more than opinion?
Theoretically, at least. Whether you actually can, I don't know.
> The person I was respoding to didn't provide any support to the
> proposition that they are great movies, I didn't see why I should
> bother, in that message.
You're not required to, but that doesn't make it true that you're putting
your opinion aside. The person you were responding to wasn't either, but
then he or she wasn't immediately preceding their opinion with a claim to
be putting opinion aside.
You seem far more interested in misapplied pedantry than anything else, at
least at present, based on the work you're clearly willing to devote to the
pedantry. I think you're spouting nonsense, but I don't have much interest
in trying to talk you out of it.
If you still can't figure out what I was saying, I think I can live with
that. I'm content that I've made my point well enough for most -- indeed, I
think I did that with my first post, so endless argument about it isn't
likely to prove interesting or valuable, I expect.
kdb
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