A Game of Thrones & The War of Roses
Rodrick Su
Possible spoilers:
Has anyone try to match up the characters in A Game of Thrones
with their historical analogy in War of Roses???
The first couple I can think of are:
Jamie Lannister -> Richard of Gloucester (Richard III)
Robert Baratheon -> Edward IV.
Cersei Lannister -> Lady Ann
Barristan Semly -> Lord Stanley?
Jon Snow or Robb Stark -> Henry of Richmond?
--
[ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
[ [ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'']
[ r...@tigana.com ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]
Daniel Blum
> Has anyone try to match up the characters in A Game of Thrones
> with their historical analogy in War of Roses???
I had more or less the same thought.
> The first couple I can think of are:
> Jamie Lannister -> Richard of Gloucester (Richard III)
His more direct parallel would be Anthony Woodville - brother of the queen,
acclaimed flower of chivalry. Of course their characters differ. :)
I saw Ned Stark as Richard - although more the Richard of John M. Ford's
_The Dragon Waiting_ than anything else (not that they're THAT close in
temperament - more the fact that he's [sort of] brother to the king, and
is based in the cold, dangerous north).
> Robert Baratheon -> Edward IV.
> Cersei Lannister -> Lady Ann
> Barristan Semly -> Lord Stanley?
> Jon Snow or Robb Stark -> Henry of Richmond?
> --
> [ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
> [ [ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'']
> [ r...@tigana.com ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum to...@mcs.net
"Let it be granted that a controversy may be raised about any question,
and at any distance from that question." - Lewis Carroll
Rodrick Su
In article <5vsl7p$ovg$1...@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>, Daniel Blum <to...@MCS.COM> wrote:
>In rec.arts.sf.written Rodrick Su <r...@primenet.com> wrote:
>> Possible spoilers:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Has anyone try to match up the characters in A Game of Thrones
>> with their historical analogy in War of Roses???
>
>I had more or less the same thought.
>
>
>> The first couple I can think of are:
>
>> Jamie Lannister -> Richard of Gloucester (Richard III)
>
>His more direct parallel would be Anthony Woodville - brother of the queen,
>acclaimed flower of chivalry. Of course their characters differ. :)
The reason for Jamie Lannister is for his killing of King Aerys,
and the slaying of the very young offsprings of both King Aerys
and Prince Rhaegar. And later, the attempt murder of Brandon Stark.
>I saw Ned Stark as Richard - although more the Richard of John M. Ford's
>_The Dragon Waiting_ than anything else (not that they're THAT close in
>temperament - more the fact that he's [sort of] brother to the king, and
>is based in the cold, dangerous north).
Except Ned is almost too nobel and honest for his own good. He has
none of Richard's deviant personality. A closer match for Ned
could be George Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence, who was framed by
Richard III, imprisoned, and then murdered.
>> Robert Baratheon -> Edward IV.
>> Cersei Lannister -> Lady Ann
>> Barristan Semly -> Lord Stanley?
>> Jon Snow or Robb Stark -> Henry of Richmond?
A couple of more analogs
King Aerys -> Henry VI
Prince Rhaegar -> Prince Edward son of Henry VI.
Theresa Ann Wymer
: Has anyone try to match up the characters in A Game of Thrones
: with their historical analogy in War of Roses???
I didn't *think* I could be the only one who thought this was really
obvious! Thank you.
: The first couple I can think of are:
: Jamie Lannister -> Richard of Gloucester (Richard III)
: Robert Baratheon -> Edward IV.
: Cersei Lannister -> Lady Ann
: Barristan Semly -> Lord Stanley?
: Jon Snow or Robb Stark -> Henry of Richmond?
My own analogies are a little different. Robert unquestionably lines up
with Edward IV, but I see Cersei Lannister as Elizabeth Woodville.
Beautiful, blonde, ambitious schemer, trillions of relatives, all of whom
are dutifully married off into all the noble houses. Come to think of
it, Cersei's father is much more an Earl of Warwick (Lady Anne's father)
type. I'm not even sure who Elizabeth's father was, come to think of it.
I had thought of Ned Stark as being something of a Richard III analogue,
due to his unswerving loyalty to Robert and his loathing of the whole
Lannister connection. (Lannister --> Lancaster?) I wonder if "Cersei"
could be a variant of "Circe". I couldn't draw any parallels for or
against Eddard's wife lining up with Richard of Gloucester's, and I'm
totally at a loss as to where the kids fit in to the analogy, if they do
at all.
Any other ideas?
--
Theresa Ann Wymer twy...@efn.org
Daniel J. Starr
In article <5vsk9c$g...@nntp02.primenet.com>,
Rodrick Su <r...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone try to match up the characters in A Game of Thrones
> with their historical analogy in War of Roses???
This is a great idea, but it works best if you recall that _A Game of
Thrones_ is just the first quarter of the series, so most of the Wars of
the Roses' events haven't had their analogues yet. Richard III's analogue
hasn't seized the throne yet, for example.
So the major players are going to line up with the young generation:
Tyrion, Robb, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys, Theon, Jon, etc. People like Ned
Stark and Robert Baratheon occupy the roles that set things up.
Henry VI has a breakdown, and the duke of York assumes the
protectorate, but faces Lancastrian opposition led by the king's wife
Margaret of Anjou in favor of her son...
Robert Baratheon... Henry VI
Ned Stark... Duke of York
Cersei Lannister... Margaret of Anjou
The duke of York's son is after the battle of Towton Moor crowned
Edward IV, and meanwhile marries a commoner...
Robb Stark... Edward IV.
Richard of Gloucester gains power as the famously deformed and nefarious
uncle and controller of a young king...
Tyrion Lannister... Richard III.
The earl of Warrick, "the Kingmaker," provides critical military
support to his friend Edward IV...
Theon Greyjoy... Robert Neville, Earl of Warrick
Henry Tudor spends most of the wars as an obscure exile, but returns,
gathers forces and defeats Richard III in battle, and seals the dynastic
breach by marrying Elizabeth of York...
Jon Snow... Henry Tudor.
Daenerys Targaryen... Elizabeth of York.
-- or maybe Daenerys is Henry and Jon is Elizabeth...
Those are my picks.
--
Daniel Starr (dst...@math.mit.edu)
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by indigestion.
John Dierdorf
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:29:16, dst...@math.mit.edu (Daniel J. Starr)
wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if this analogy can be kept intact through
Volume Two next spring. Of course, the WOTR basics don't quite account
for "Winter Is Coming", which presumably will come considerably closer
in V2. In addition, any scenario which has the houses of Stark and
Targaryen both = York would considerably startle the characters in the
book, to put it mildly! My mind does not boggle easily, but Daenerys
(the last of the Targaryens) and Robb (the new King of the North,
generations after his ancestor Knelt to hers) on the same side?
--
John Dierdorf (dier...@io.com)
Austin, TX
Justin Fang
In article <K9YfeFFEfr2i-pn2-.b4Hrw.s6fHN@myhostname>,
John Dierdorf <dier...@io.com> wrote:
Probably shopuld have spoiler warnings:
>It'll be interesting to see if this analogy can be kept intact through
>Volume Two next spring. Of course, the WOTR basics don't quite account
>for "Winter Is Coming", which presumably will come considerably closer
>in V2. In addition, any scenario which has the houses of Stark and
>Targaryen both = York would considerably startle the characters in the
>book, to put it mildly! My mind does not boggle easily, but Daenerys
>(the last of the Targaryens) and Robb (the new King of the North,
>generations after his ancestor Knelt to hers) on the same side?
No, it makes perfect sense. See, the North is being menaced by a haunted
forest filled with nasty frozen undead things, which just happen to be
vulnerable to fire. So the obvious solution is to have the dragons torch
them. :)
--
Justin Fang (jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu)
This space intentionally left blank.
Daniel Ban
On 23 Sep 1997 19:35:36 GMT, jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Justin Fang)
wrote:
Hmm, one of the things I like about A Game of Thrones is the
complexity of the loyalties and relationships... Although the dragons
may aid Robb Stark in the long run, I suspect there will be a very
long and torturous road before that alliance comes about...