Girl Genius 11-16

[Brenda Clough]

And it's Famous Last Words time!

Brenda

--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01

[Tim McCaffrey]

In article <j9vavv$bep$1...@dont-email.me>, Brenda...@yahoo.com says...

>
>And it's Famous Last Words time!
>
>Brenda

Penny in the air...

[Robert Carnegie]

On Nov 16, 4:29 pm, timcaff...@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote:
> In article <j9vavv$be...@dont-email.me>, BrendaWri...@yahoo.com says...

>
>
>
> >And it's Famous Last Words time!
>
> >Brenda
>
> Penny in the air...

"...fully operational Death Star..."

[J. Clarke]

In article <3dd01e45-5934-433a-8da1-3346999f57a1
@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, rja.ca...@excite.com says...

I believe the exact quote is ". . . fully operational battle station . .
.", which is pretty much an accurate description of the current
situation.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Nov 17, 1:12 am, "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote:
> In article <3dd01e45-5934-433a-8da1-3346999f57a1

> @cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, rja.carne...@excite.com says...

>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 4:29 pm, timcaff...@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote:
> > > In article <j9vavv$be...@dont-email.me>, BrendaWri...@yahoo.com says...
>
> > > >And it's Famous Last Words time!
>
> > > >Brenda
>
> > > Penny in the air...
>
> > "...fully operational Death Star..."
>
> I believe the exact quote is ". . . fully operational battle station . .
> .", which is pretty much an accurate description of the current
> situation.

That would account for me not finding it online the way I remembered.
You mean like this?
<http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/01/27/funny-pictures-and-
operational-battlestation/>

[J. Clarke]

In article <9989971f-31f0-4072-b18b-
48082e...@y12g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, rja.ca...@excite.com
says...

Yep. And it would not be at all surprising to find that there is a
hamsterball of death somewhere in the bowels of the Castle waiting for
the right hamster to come along and utilize it.

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <MPG.292e47b32...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,

J. Clarke <jclark...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> That would account for me not finding it online the way I remembered.
>> You mean like this?
>> <http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/01/27/funny-pictures-and-
>> operational-battlestation/>
>
>Yep. And it would not be at all surprising to find that there is a
>hamsterball of death somewhere in the bowels of the Castle waiting for
>the right hamster to come along and utilize it.

I think we've already seen it...

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

[William George Ferguson]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:12:58 -0500, "J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net>
wrote:

But the 'famous last words' would match to "Evacuate? In our hour of
triumph? I think you overestimate their chances."

Of course, my favorite 'famous last words' in this sense would be
"Thou fool! No living man may hinder me!"

--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)

[David Dyer-Bennet]

William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> writes:

> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:12:58 -0500, "J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <3dd01e45-5934-433a-8da1-3346999f57a1
>>@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, rja.ca...@excite.com says...
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 4:29 pm, timcaff...@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote:
>>> > In article <j9vavv$be...@dont-email.me>, BrendaWri...@yahoo.com says...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >And it's Famous Last Words time!
>>> >
>>> > >Brenda
>>> >
>>> > Penny in the air...
>>>
>>> "...fully operational Death Star..."
>>
>>I believe the exact quote is ". . . fully operational battle station . .
>>.", which is pretty much an accurate description of the current
>>situation.
>>
> But the 'famous last words' would match to "Evacuate? In our hour of
> triumph? I think you overestimate their chances."
>
> Of course, my favorite 'famous last words' in this sense would be
> "Thou fool! No living man may hinder me!"

Even better than "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dis"?
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <oirac7liddbvpehio...@4ax.com>,

William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:12:58 -0500, "J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <3dd01e45-5934-433a-8da1-3346999f57a1
>>@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, rja.ca...@excite.com says...
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 4:29 pm, timcaff...@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote:
>>> > In article <j9vavv$be...@dont-email.me>, BrendaWri...@yahoo.com says...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >And it's Famous Last Words time!
>>> >
>>> > >Brenda
>>> >
>>> > Penny in the air...
>>>
>>> "...fully operational Death Star..."
>>
>>I believe the exact quote is ". . . fully operational battle station . .
>>.", which is pretty much an accurate description of the current
>>situation.
>>
>But the 'famous last words' would match to "Evacuate? In our hour of
>triumph? I think you overestimate their chances."
>
>Of course, my favorite 'famous last words' in this sense would be
>"Thou fool! No living man may hinder me!"

The best part about it is the way Tolkien covered his bets from a
linguistic standpoint.

The word "man" in English has been made to stand in for what were
originally two words: _mann_ meaning "a man, as distinguished from
an animal, demon, or god" (compare Latin _homo_, Greek _anthropos_),
and _wer_ meaning "a man, as distinguished from a woman or a child"
(Latin _vir_, Greek _aner, andros_).

If Eowyn and the Witch-King had been pedants like the herb-master
of Minas Tirith, the dialogue might have gone more like this:

"You fool, no living man may harm me."

"_Distinguo_, Sir, I am not _vir_ but _femina._ Prepare to die."

"Excuse me, your Westron is so imprecise. I did not mean _vir_, I
meant _homo_."

"Ah, point taken! In that case, permit me to point out that
Meriadoc, who is not _homo_ but _dimidiulus,_ a Halfling, has
just introduced an Arnorian blade into your knee."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

"Besides," said another warrior, bringing a mace down on the
Witch-King's helm, "Is this really LIVING? After all, War is Hell, and
only the dead go to hell..."

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Tim McCaffrey]

In article <ja0odv$9t0$1...@USTR-NEWS.TR.UNISYS.COM>, timca...@aol.com says...

Penny drops (DOOOMMMM!)
>

[David DeLaney]

Tim McCaffrey <timca...@aol.com> wrote:
>timca...@aol.com says...

>>Brenda...@yahoo.com says...
>>>And it's Famous Last Words time!
>>>
>>>Brenda
>>
>>Penny in the air...
>
>Penny drops (DOOOMMMM!)

And notice that the townsfolk in general now have a Motivation. (Minion-bred
for generations, and the Mistress is home again!)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Quadibloc]

On Nov 17, 6:07 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> If Eowyn and the Witch-King had been pedants like the herb-master
> of Minas Tirith, the dialogue might have gone more like this:
>
> "You fool, no living man may harm me."
>
> "_Distinguo_, Sir, I am not _vir_ but _femina._  Prepare to die."
>
> "Excuse me, your Westron is so imprecise.  I did not mean _vir_, I
> meant _homo_."
>
> "Ah, point taken!  In that case, permit me to point out that
> Meriadoc, who is not _homo_ but _dimidiulus,_ a Halfling, has
> just introduced an Arnorian blade into your knee."

Quite amusing indeed: but from his precise choice of words, one might
half-expect (not in Tolkien, of course, but in fantasy by other
authors) for the coup de grace to be dealt by a vampire, zombie, or
other undead being in the party.

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <8f535deb-c60d-40ff...@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,

As you say, not in Tolkien. The only other undead (not counting
the Witch-King itself) on the Pelennor Fields are the other eight
Nazgul, who would probably just love to do their leader in, but
don't dare.

As to vampires, the only one I can recall offhand is the vampire
bat in the Silmarillion --- Thuringwethil, I think her name was.

I'll venture to point out that the "No man may slay him" was
uttered as a prophecy -- that is, he didn't think it up himself,
but Manwe Sulimo (or possibly Eru Iluvatar himself, which is
statistically unlikely) spoke through his mouth -- by none other
than Glorfindel.

And the entire sequence was prompted by a linguistic pun, whereby
Tolkien caused the Westron language to have only one word for
both meanings of "man," as English does, and having done so,
figured out a way for the Witch-King to be slain by a not-_vir_
*AND* a not-_homo_. Either, singly, *might* have worked, but the
Witch-King's wyrd was better fulfilled by a joint effort,
covering both bases.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <slrnjcd2u...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,

David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>Tim McCaffrey <timca...@aol.com> wrote:
>>timca...@aol.com says...
>>>Brenda...@yahoo.com says...
>>>>And it's Famous Last Words time!
>>>>
>>>>Brenda
>>>
>>>Penny in the air...
>>
>>Penny drops (DOOOMMMM!)
>
>And notice that the townsfolk in general now have a Motivation. (Minion-bred
>for generations, and the Mistress is home again!)

Though from what the soldiers were saying just before the
DOOOOOMMM, it looks as if the townsfolk had had some pretty
good motivation already.

[David Johnston]

On 11/18/2011 12:53 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> As you say, not in Tolkien.

Aragorn did lead an army of the dead into battle on another occasion so
the main reason why not is a lack of dead protagonists.

[Robert Carnegie]

Did they ever get into this point in _Full Frontal Nerdity_?

[trag]

On 11/17/2011 7:07 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> William George Ferguson<wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:

>> Of course, my favorite 'famous last words' in this sense would be
>> "Thou fool! No living man may hinder me!"
>
> The best part about it is the way Tolkien covered his bets from a
> linguistic standpoint.
>
> The word "man" in English has been made to stand in for what were
> originally two words: _mann_ meaning "a man, as distinguished from
> an animal, demon, or god" (compare Latin _homo_, Greek _anthropos_),
> and _wer_ meaning "a man, as distinguished from a woman or a child"
> (Latin _vir_, Greek _aner, andros_).
>
> If Eowyn and the Witch-King had been pedants like the herb-master
> of Minas Tirith, the dialogue might have gone more like this:
>
> "You fool, no living man may harm me."
>
> "_Distinguo_, Sir, I am not _vir_ but _femina._ Prepare to die."
>
> "Excuse me, your Westron is so imprecise. I did not mean _vir_, I
> meant _homo_."
>
> "Ah, point taken! In that case, permit me to point out that
> Meriadoc, who is not _homo_ but _dimidiulus,_ a Halfling, has
> just introduced an Arnorian blade into your knee."

<chortling> Almost makes me wish he'd written it that way...


--
A friend will help you move. A real friend will help you move a body.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ja6e8g$75v$1...@dont-email.me>,

Hm, that's true. But IIRC the dead attacked the corsairs at the
docks, so that (a) the corsairs couldn't join Sauron's forces on
the Pelennor, and (b) Aragorn's forces could grab off the ships
and get to the Pelennor more rapidly themselves.

I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able
to do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will;
but would the mere fact of being dead enable him to count as
not-"man" in both senses? Would he be able to say with Virgil,
_Non omo, omo gia fui,_ "not man; once I was a man"? Since it
was the Witch-King's fate that he was slain by a woman and a Hobbit,
we'll never know what might have happened.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Yes, but that would have been *explaining* it. This way it was a
subtle joke best appreciated by his fellow philologists.

"Tolkien's mind was one of unmatchable subtlety, not without a
streak of deliberate guile."

-- T. A. Shippey, _The Road to Middle-Earth_, p. 4.

[Wayne Throop]

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able to

: do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will; but would the
: mere fact of being dead enable him to count as not-"man" in both
: senses?

Why would he need to be not-man in any sense?
The original condition was "no living man may hinder me", right?
So, logically, either not-living or not-man would do the trick.

Hm. Would a vampire or a zombie do, or is undead not not-living?
One would think a ghost *would* to it... but...

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <13216...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>: I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able to
>: do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will; but would the
>: mere fact of being dead enable him to count as not-"man" in both
>: senses?
>
>Why would he need to be not-man in any sense?
>The original condition was "no living man may hinder me", right?

No. That's what the Witch-King said of himself, just before
Eowyn brought out her punchline. What *Glorfindel* said was "Not
by the hand of man shall he fall." "Man", unmodified, but with two
meanings.

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <LuvGK...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>As to vampires, the only one I can recall offhand is the vampire
>bat in the Silmarillion --- Thuringwethil, I think her name was.

I think there was a single mention of vampires in _The Hobbit_;
something about why going around the forest to the north was a
bad idea.

Does it exist in searchable form?

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 11/18/11 5:23 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article<13216...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop<thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> : I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able to
>> : do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will; but would the
>> : mere fact of being dead enable him to count as not-"man" in both
>> : senses?
>>
>> Why would he need to be not-man in any sense?
>> The original condition was "no living man may hinder me", right?
>
> No. That's what the Witch-King said of himself, just before
> Eowyn brought out her punchline. What *Glorfindel* said was "Not
> by the hand of man shall he fall." "Man", unmodified, but with two
> meanings.

"Hand", more than one meaning.

"Fool! I shall not fall by the hand of man!"

"I am a master of Tae Kwan Leap. BOOT TO THE HEAD!"

[David DeLaney]

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 11/18/11 5:23 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> No. That's what the Witch-King said of himself, just before
>> Eowyn brought out her punchline. What *Glorfindel* said was "Not
>> by the hand of man shall he fall." "Man", unmodified, but with two
>> meanings.
>
> "Hand", more than one meaning.
>
> "Fool! I shall not fall by the hand of man!"
>
> "I am a master of Tae Kwan Leap. BOOT TO THE HEAD!"

Or, of course, one could back him up into a nearby Ent, who could then root
him to the spot and branch and twig him into little teeny Witchprinceling
pieces.

Dave "all that is old does not blather [...] deep roots are not reached by
the frost" DeLaney

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ja6mmk$q3r$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

Paul Ciszek <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>In article <LuvGK...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>As to vampires, the only one I can recall offhand is the vampire
>>bat in the Silmarillion --- Thuringwethil, I think her name was.
>
>I think there was a single mention of vampires in _The Hobbit_;
>something about why going around the forest to the north was a
>bad idea.

Really? I know there were giants in the Misties, and trolls in
the Trollshaws and the Ettenmoors, but I don't recall any
vampires in _The Hobbit._

>Does it exist in searchable form?

I doubt it. I'll read it over and if I find any mention of
anything vampiric, I'll post back.

Vampires, let's not forget, are Southeastern European mythology,
and Tolkien was working mostly out of Germanic and generally
North-European material.

Note: a quick google *appears* to indicate that Jackson, may his
bones burn green, is putting a vampire into the Hobbit film. I
don't want to think about that subject any more.

[Dimensional Traveler]

On 11/18/2011 3:56 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 11/18/11 5:23 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article<13216...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop<thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>> : djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> : I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able to
>>> : do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will; but would the
>>> : mere fact of being dead enable him to count as not-"man" in both
>>> : senses?
>>>
>>> Why would he need to be not-man in any sense?
>>> The original condition was "no living man may hinder me", right?
>>
>> No. That's what the Witch-King said of himself, just before
>> Eowyn brought out her punchline. What *Glorfindel* said was "Not
>> by the hand of man shall he fall." "Man", unmodified, but with two
>> meanings.
>
> "Hand", more than one meaning.
>
> "Fool! I shall not fall by the hand of man!"
>
> "I am a master of Tae Kwan Leap. BOOT TO THE HEAD!"
>

Does it make me irredeemably geeky that I not only have Ti Kwan Leep as
an MP3 but that I also ran an Ed Gruberman character in a superhero
genre GURPS game?

[Bo Lindbergh]

In article <8f535deb-c60d-40ff...@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

Meanwhile, here's a candidate for the most heinous undead pun ever:

http://rustyandco.com/comic/5/


/Bo Lindbergh

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:44:04 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
<djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in
<news:Luvu1...@kithrup.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> Vampires, let's not forget, are Southeastern European
> mythology, and Tolkien was working mostly out of Germanic
> and generally North-European material.

The draugar have a few vampiric characteristics, though not
the major one: they're creatures of the night, and they can
seep through the earth. One would definitely not confuse
them with vampires, though. Among other things, they
generally kill by crushing.

Brian

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:53:23 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

[snip]

>As to vampires, the only one I can recall offhand is the vampire
>bat in the Silmarillion --- Thuringwethil, I think her name was.

I understand Sauron wore the hat himself a while back.

He even did sparkle though not at the same time. See the unused
Annatar picture.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:23:28 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <13216...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>: I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able to
>>: do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will; but would the
>>: mere fact of being dead enable him to count as not-"man" in both
>>: senses?
>>
>>Why would he need to be not-man in any sense?
>>The original condition was "no living man may hinder me", right?
>
>No. That's what the Witch-King said of himself, just before
>Eowyn brought out her punchline. What *Glorfindel* said was "Not
>by the hand of man shall he fall." "Man", unmodified, but with two

^^^^
>meanings.

No karate either?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:18:33 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net>
wrote:

Unless a kick, of course.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <g70gc7hg0bfqkv52o...@4ax.com>,

wellllll.... the items giving the mortal wounds were a Rohirric
spatha and an Arnorian dagger. Both held in hands.

[Doug Wickström]

Tae kwon do is "strike with foot/strike with hand way."
--
Doug Wickström

[Dimensional Traveler]

From you post I get the feeling you don't know what Ti Kwan Leep is.
Here's a pointer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8VD4JXUozM

[Don Bruder]

In article <4ec9ea05$0$1662$742e...@news.sonic.net>,

You really needed to phrase that as "You fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leap.
Approach me that you might learn..." :)

If you like a good boot to the head, be on the lookout for "Last Will &
Temperament", too. Just don't eat the ice cream...

--
Email shown is deceased. If you would like to contact me by email, please
post something that makes it obvious in this or another group you see me
posting in with a "how to contact you" address, and I'll get back to you.

[Alexey Romanov]

What about a backstab by another Ringwraith?
--
Alexey Romanov

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <dpf38hhvl6bp.7rgysnefya23$.d...@40tude.net>,

Alexey Romanov <alex...@mail.ru> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:11:44 GMT, Wayne Throop wrote:
>
>>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>: I'm sure any of the Sleepless Dead who somehow found himself able to
>>: do an injury to the Witch-King would do so with a will; but would the
>>: mere fact of being dead enable him to count as not-"man" in both
>>: senses?
>>
>> Why would he need to be not-man in any sense?
>> The original condition was "no living man may hinder me", right?
>> So, logically, either not-living or not-man would do the trick.

But that was the Witch-King's own interpretation of the prophecy,
which actually read "not by the hand of man shall he fall."

>>
>> Hm. Would a vampire or a zombie do, or is undead not not-living?
>> One would think a ghost *would* to it... but...
>
>What about a backstab by another Ringwraith?

I think that was already mentioned, and I think I said I was
positive the other Eight would just *love* to do in Number One,
but they don't dare.