Fannish categories--changes
Daniel Goodman
Some observations on fanhistory of various subgroups:
Prozine letterhacks: Used to be considered fans, even if this was their
only fanac. (Up until when?) No longer considered part of fandom.
Fiction fanzines: "Small press" sounds so much better, and it's much
cheaper and easier to look more or less professional. Probably not many
around, though they're probably reinvented at least once a year.
Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
Net fans: Didn't exist when I started in fandom; not many people were on
Usenet in '63/'64.
Second generation fans: A lot more around than in 1940, say.
Completist apahackers: Len Moffatt used to be in all the apas in fandom.
The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of to try belonging to
_every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy, sometime in the 1970's.
Dan Goodman
--
Dan Goodman
MPLS, MN, USA
"The only peace is that interior in us."
P Nielsen Hayden
Arthur Hlavaty (hla...@panix.com) wrote:
: P Nielsen Hayden (p...@panix.com) wrote:
: : : Completist apahackers: Len Moffatt used to be in all the apas in fandom.
: : : The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of to try belonging to
: : : _every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy, sometime in the 1970's.
: : Charles Korbas, sometime in the 1970s.
: Korbas was before Gunderloy. (I arrived in fandom between them.)
I got interrupted and wound up being less than clear. What I meant to type
was, wasn't Gunderloy's activity more in the 80s? Korbas was the one I
associate with the 70s.
Certainly Gunderloy was the better writer of the two, to put it mildly.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@tor.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
ly...@access2.digex.net
In article <4thd6s$s...@darla.visi.com>,
Daniel Goodman <dsg...@mixer.visi.com> wrote:
>Some observations on fanhistory of various subgroups:
>
>
>Completist apahackers: Len Moffatt used to be in all the apas in fandom.
>The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of to try belonging to
>_every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy, sometime in the 1970's.
>
These used to be referred to as "omniapans" (in the late 1950s and early
1960s). It became impossible to do after about 1960 because exclusionary
apas came into existence then. There were two main types of exclusionary
apas: invitation-only (such as APA-X and LilAPA), and by date-of-birth
(APA-45 was the first of these, I think). The last three known omniapans
were all from Los Angeles: Bruce Pelz, Jack Harness, and Ted Johnstone,
though there seems to be some disagreement whether Johnstone was actively
trying to belong to every apa in existence. The very first exclusionary
apa, APA-X (formerly known as the Carbon-Reproduced Amateur Press
Association, or CRAPA) came into existence as a backlash against
omniapans. Andy Main, who was OE of CRAPA at the end of the 1950s, folded
the apa, then re-opened it as APA-X after issuing invites to all existing
members except Pelz, Harness, and Norm Metcalf (was seen as belonging to
that group, even though he wasn't).
This didn't stop Pelz from obtaining copies of the new APA, by the way,
but that's another story...
RWL
P Nielsen Hayden
Daniel Goodman (dsg...@mixer.visi.com) wrote:
: Some observations on fanhistory of various subgroups:
: Prozine letterhacks: Used to be considered fans, even if this was their
: only fanac. (Up until when?) No longer considered part of fandom.
I think it's more germaine to say there aren't any prozine letterhacks. How
many of the prozines have regular lettercolumns, aside from Asimov's and
Analog? I skim those lettercolumns every month, but I don't detect
'regulars.' If I did, and I then encountered such a person in a fannish
context like a con, I'd consider them part of fandom, ayup.
: Completist apahackers: Len Moffatt used to be in all the apas in fandom.
: The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of to try belonging to
: _every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy, sometime in the 1970's.
Charles Korbas, sometime in the 1970s.
-----
Arthur Hlavaty
: : The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of to try belonging to
: : _every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy, sometime in the 1970's.
: Charles Korbas, sometime in the 1970s.
Korbas was before Gunderloy. (I arrived in fandom between them.)
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius In Wile E. We Trust
\\\ E-zine available on request. ///
Nancy Lebovitz
>Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
>people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
>Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
>
Costumers might be a parallel group.
Nancy Lebovitz (nan...@universe.digex.net)
12/95 updated calligraphic button catalogue available by email
Loren J. MacGregor
p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>: Korbas was before Gunderloy. (I arrived in fandom between them.)
<snip>
>Certainly Gunderloy was the better writer of the two, to put it mildly.
I had thought I was active in the 70s, and somewhat less so but still
present in the 80s. But I haven't heard of either of these writers.
*sigh*
The only thing that will make matters worse is for someone to remind
me that I was in at least one apa with either or both...
-- LJM
Ulrika
In article <4tia5t$2...@panix2.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
writes:
>I got interrupted and wound up being less than clear. What I meant to
type
>was, wasn't Gunderloy's activity more in the 80s? Korbas was the one I
>associate with the 70s.
I don't think so. I met Blundergoy in '81, just as he was leaving BTLE
to move back East with Carolyn, and by then, as I understood it,
he was in comparative gafia from his peak. I gathered at the time that
his peak had been a couple of years previous, some time in the late
70s. From then on I think he was concentrating primariy on his
zine-review genzine, whose name, despite all reason, eludes me
at the moment. I'm sure five or six people will supply the missing title.
--Ulrika
Ulrika O'Brien, Philosopher Without Portfolio
***ulr...@aol.com***
David E Romm
In article <4thd6s$s...@darla.visi.com>, dsg...@mixer.visi.com (Daniel
Goodman) wrote:
> Some observations on fanhistory of various subgroups:
>
> Prozine letterhacks: Used to be considered fans, even if this was their
> only fanac. (Up until when?) No longer considered part of fandom.
>
> Fiction fanzines: "Small press" sounds so much better, and it's much
> cheaper and easier to look more or less professional. Probably not many
> around, though they're probably reinvented at least once a year.
>
> Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
> people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
> Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
>
> Net fans: Didn't exist when I started in fandom; not many people were on
> Usenet in '63/'64.
>
> Second generation fans: A lot more around than in 1940, say.
>
> Completist apahackers: Len Moffatt used to be in all the apas in fandom.
> The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of to try belonging to
> _every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy, sometime in the 1970's.
It should be noted that by the only important method of determining
Trufannishness, ie Shockwave, all these people have been
interviewed/written for/part of at least one show, and often many, and
therefore your attempt to redefine fannish categories doesn't hold up.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
Well, okay, maybe not the _only_ important method... but I'm still not going to do a show on this subject.
Daniel Goodman
In article <4tia5t$2...@panix2.panix.com>,
P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>I got interrupted and wound up being less than clear. What I meant to type
>was, wasn't Gunderloy's activity more in the 80s? Korbas was the one I
>associate with the 70s.
to be a completist apahacker in the 70s; by the 80s, he had given that up.
(Though what with FACTSHEET FIVE, he quite likely wrote and published more
in the 80s.) What we need to settle this question is someone who has a
very extensive collection of apa mailings from those two decades.
Actually, I suppose we could do it the easy way and ask Mike Gunderloy.
Mark Bernstein
Eminent Usenetter Daniel Goodman (dsg...@mixer.visi.com) wrote:
: Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
: people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
: Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
The first all-filk con was, not surprisingly, Filkcon I, which was
either 1979 or 1980. In the Midwest, at least, filk experienced
a major growth spurt starting in '74, when Bob Asprin came on
the scene.
--
Mark Bernstein
m...@arbortext.com
Lori Coulson
: Eminent Usenetter Daniel Goodman (dsg...@mixer.visi.com) wrote:
: : Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
: : people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
: : Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
Mark Bernstein (m...@aspen.arbortext.com) wrote:
: The first all-filk con was, not surprisingly, Filkcon I, which was
: either 1979 or 1980. In the Midwest, at least, filk experienced
: a major growth spurt starting in '74, when Bob Asprin came on
: the scene.
That tallies with what I remember (my first year in fandom was 1974).
Ohio Valley Filk Fest has been going since 1984. Geez, I can remember
when the only place you could filk was someone's hotel room....
Lori Coulson
--
*****************************************************
...Or do you still wait for me, Dream Giver...
Just around the riverbend? Pocahontas
*****************************************************
Janice Gelb
In article c...@condor.ic.net, m...@aspen.arbortext.com (Mark Bernstein) writes:
>Eminent Usenetter Daniel Goodman (dsg...@mixer.visi.com) wrote:
>
>: Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
>: people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
>: Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
>
>either 1979 or 1980. In the Midwest, at least, filk experienced
>a major growth spurt starting in '74, when Bob Asprin came on
>the scene.
>
It was 1979. I was only able to figure this out because I was there, and
since I was out of the country for most of 1980...
********************************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with this
jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com | message is the return address.
http://www.tripod.com/~janiceg/index.html
"Politics is show business for ugly people"
-- James Carville
********************************************************************************
David G. Bell
In article <romm-29079...@ppp-66-126.dialup.winternet.com>
ro...@winternet.com "David E Romm" writes:
> > Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
> > people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
> > Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
Twelve minutes past six in the evening, with cannon...
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Gary Farber
Ulrika (ulr...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <4tia5t$2...@panix2.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
: writes:
: >I got interrupted and wound up being less than clear. What I meant to
: type
: >was, wasn't Gunderloy's activity more in the 80s? Korbas was the one I
: >associate with the 70s.
: I don't think so. I met Blundergoy in '81, just as he was leaving BTLE
: to move back East with Carolyn, and by then, as I understood it,
: he was in comparative gafia from his peak.
If you are correct, I suspect the answer is that Mike's "peak" was in a
corner of "fanzine fandom" that, for instance, rich might not call
"mainstream fannish." I.e, he was part of the web that more closely
connected Arthur Hlavaty, his Golden Apa friends, the NYU folk, certain
segments of LA, etc., which in the late Seventies-to-Eighty-one, had
minmal overlap with the fanzine fandom pnh, I, and rich knew.
: I gathered at the time that
: his peak had been a couple of years previous, some time in the late
: 70s. From then on I think he was concentrating primariy on his
: zine-review genzine, whose name, despite all reason, eludes me
: at the moment. I'm sure five or six people will supply the missing title.
FACTSHEET FIVE. Which from my perspective took quite some time to creep
into my awareness from the fringes of my perception of fanzine fandom.
If FF wasn't Gunderloy's "peak," where did this "peak" of activity take
place, exactly? (Meaning, "in what fanzines or apas?," not "where was he
living?")
--
-- Gary Farber gfa...@panix.com
Copyright (c) 1996 Brooklyn, NY, USA
Daniel Goodman
In article <4tjoj7$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <4tia5t$2...@panix2.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
>writes:
>
>>I got interrupted and wound up being less than clear. What I meant to
>type
>>was, wasn't Gunderloy's activity more in the 80s? Korbas was the one I
>>associate with the 70s.
>
>I don't think so. I met Blundergoy in '81, just as he was leaving BTLE
>to move back East with Carolyn, and by then, as I understood it,
>his peak had been a couple of years previous, some time in the late
>70s. From then on I think he was concentrating primariy on his
>zine-review genzine, whose name, despite all reason, eludes me
>at the moment. I'm sure five or six people will supply the missing
title.
someone in San Francisco is now running it.
Also, Gunderloy had another wife the last I heard.
And I'm now in a writing-workshop apa with one of his columnists (Annie
Ackner, now Anna Ackner).
Gary Farber
Mark Bernstein (m...@aspen.arbortext.com) wrote:
: Eminent Usenetter Daniel Goodman (dsg...@mixer.visi.com) wrote:
: : Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs, but
: : people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be relatively new.
: : Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
: The first all-filk con was, not surprisingly, Filkcon I, which was
: either 1979 or 1980. In the Midwest, at least, filk experienced
: a major growth spurt starting in '74, when Bob Asprin came on
: the scene.
I think Dan's observations about the growth of little activities that many
fans used to commonly do into Entire Fannish Identities, such as filking,
costuming, fanzine-producing, etc., is entirely valid; naturally, because
I've been pointing out the same thing for many years.
But when did *you* first notice people saying "I'm a filker" or "I'm a
costumer" instead of "I'm a fan," first? :-)
(It's hardly surprising, of course, and I suppose it was/is inevitable
that groups, and the individuals within them, form identities as soon as
they reach critical mass for a "tribe," and their "tribal identity.")
Ulrika
In article <4tlljl$o...@panix2.panix.com>, gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber)
writes:
>
>If FF wasn't Gunderloy's "peak," where did this "peak" of activity take
>place, exactly? (Meaning, "in what fanzines or apas?," not "where was he
>living?")
I honestly don't know where all he was contributing -- fanhistrivia has
never been a major interest of mine, and this was just as I was entering
the peripheries of fandom. I gathered from mutual friends that Mike had
at some point previous to his gafiation to "only" doing Factsheet Five
been attempting to keep up with simply bunches of apae. I have no
idea if he was doing anything for genzines at the same time, nor do
I know which apae were at issue. I have little trouble believing that
wherever he was at, it didn't fit rich's definition of mainstream fanzine
fandom, but, as I think I've opined elsewhere, this may say more about
rich's definition than it does about Mike's activity...
--Ulrika
Arthur Hlavaty
Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote:
: If you are correct, I suspect the answer is that Mike's "peak" was in a
: corner of "fanzine fandom" that, for instance, rich might not call
: "mainstream fannish." I.e, he was part of the web that more closely
: connected Arthur Hlavaty, his Golden Apa friends, the NYU folk, certain
: segments of LA, etc., which in the late Seventies-to-Eighty-one, had
: minmal overlap with the fanzine fandom pnh, I, and rich knew.
As I remember, Mike was very active in apas 1978-1980 (though I don't
believe he ever attempted to belong to *all* of them; there were already
over 100 listed in *South of the Moon*). 1n 1980 or so he began a genzine
called *Tentativity*, which lasted a few issues. He gafiated, then
returned to apas in 1982 with a much more moderate number of memberships.
Then he started doing Factsheet Five, and pretty much dropped out of sf
zine and apa fandom. I haven't heard from him in a few years.
1978-1980 also seems to my somewhat clouded memory to be a period when
"mainstream fannish fandom" was doing relatively few zines. (One hears
that *Pong* did much to revive it.
Mark Bernstein
Eminent Usenetter Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote:
: I think Dan's observations about the growth of little activities that many
: fans used to commonly do into Entire Fannish Identities, such as filking,
: costuming, fanzine-producing, etc., is entirely valid; naturally, because
: I've been pointing out the same thing for many years.
: But when did *you* first notice people saying "I'm a filker" or "I'm a
: costumer" instead of "I'm a fan," first? :-)
Hmm, that's a tough one, since it was a while ago. I would guess that
it was some time in the late 70s or early 80s. But I think context is
important. I'd say I'm far more likely to hear "I'm a filker" in those
environments where it's already assumed that everyone there is a fan,
like at a convention or in a fannish newsgroup discussion, or locally
at the weekly Monday-night-gathering-at-the-bar.
: (It's hardly surprising, of course, and I suppose it was/is inevitable
: that groups, and the individuals within them, form identities as soon as
: they reach critical mass for a "tribe," and their "tribal identity.")
Sounds right to me. It's also not too surprising that as the definition
of "fan" has expanded, those for whom "fan" was once a sufficient label
turn to more specific tribal identities, like "faanish fan", or "trufan".
Or else get into debates where they defend the definition they're most
familiar with.
--
Mark Bernstein
m...@arbortext.com
C. Elisabeth Carey
Daniel Goodman wrote:
> If my memory is correct (which it sometimes isn't), Gunderloy was trying
> to be a completist apahacker in the 70s; by the 80s, he had given that up.
> (Though what with FACTSHEET FIVE, he quite likely wrote and published more
> in the 80s.) What we need to settle this question is someone who has a
> very extensive collection of apa mailings from those two decades.
>
> Actually, I suppose we could do it the easy way and ask Mike Gunderloy.
Can't do that; it would be cheating. I'm sure there's a rule against it,
and the penalty is probably severe.
Lis Carey
Daniel Goodman
This sub-thread had been about when Mike Gunderloy was trying to be an
omniapan. I don't see why anyone would necessarily assume that this was
when he was most active doing _other_ things -- such as Factsheet Five.
Or when he was most active in any _particular_ apa.
Pam Wells
In article <4tjoj7$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> ulr...@aol.com "Ulrika" writes:
> From then on I think he [Mike Gunderloy] was concentrating primariy on
> his zine-review genzine, whose name, despite all reason, eludes me at the
> moment. I'm sure five or six people will supply the missing title.
Factsheet Five.
--
Pam Wells Vacuou...@bitch.demon.co.uk
Ulrika
In article <838860...@bitch.demon.co.uk>, Pam Wells
<Vacuou...@bitch.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> From then on I think he [Mike Gunderloy] was concentrating primariy on
>> his zine-review genzine, whose name, despite all reason, eludes me at
the
>> moment. I'm sure five or six people will supply the missing title.
>
>Factsheet Five.
You're number two.
("Who is Number One?!" "You are, Number Six!")
Dr Gafia
>Prozine letterhacks: Used to be considered fans, even if this
>was their only fanac. (Up until when?) No longer considered
>part of fandom.
I think this is generally something that only applied to Fourth
Fandom. Joe (X.J.) Kennedy's VAMPIRE was the fanzine focal
point, but it was only bi-monthly and published via hekto,
i.e., slow, somewhat hard to read, and limited in circulation.
This was during the War years (WWII) and there was a paper
shortage; most of what 'went on' in fandom was discussed in the
lettercolumns of the major pulps--PLANET, THRILLING WONDER
STORIES (TWS) and STARTLING STORIES (SS). These lettercolumns
were 30 or more pages long, printed in 6 pt and 8 pt type,
written by the major BNFs of the period--Kennedy, Rick Sneary,
Marion Zimmer Bradley and others--and were treated (with a
presumably bemused nod of the publishers) as if they were an
extension of fanzine fandom by fans of the period; fans not
only commented on the stories and features of the magazines but
addressed MC-like comments to each other, responding to things
that had been said in the previous lettercolumn. It did help
keep down the expenses of fan activity.
>Fiction fanzines: "Small press" sounds so much better, and
>it's much cheaper and easier to look more or less
>professional. Probably not many around, though they're
>probably reinvented at least once a year.
As I mentioned in another posting recently, one thing that
knocked fiction fanzines out of the picture for a while was the
observation that fans who wrote for them seldom went on to
"sell to the pros" whereas fans who wrote articles, essays,
anecdotes & the like for general fanzines improved their
writing abilities and often did. It was eventually deduced
that few fans actually read the amateur sf in fanzines, and
hence gave the writers no feedback, but they did read the other
stuff and comment on it critically, and so there was inducement
there to improve.
>Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk
>songs, but people who identify themselves as filkers seem to
>be relatively new.
>Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
I don't know when the conventions got started. Or what you're
trying to say when you say filkers "used to be people who wrote
and sang filk songs" but presently "seem to be relatively new".
Uh, what?
>Net fans: Didn't exist when I started in fandom; not many
>people were on Usenet in '63/'64.
Likewise for me, except there were possibly even fewer in '56.
>Second generation fans: A lot more around than in 1940, say.
Yes; a lot more fans marrying other fans and bringing up their
children in and around fandom. Ted White and I can walk
through a Disclave and only be recognized by a handful of
pipple; our daughters (Kit and Alicia, respectively) are
greeted wherever they go. It is to laugh.
>Completist apahackers: Len Moffatt used to be in all the apas
>in fandom. The complete list: FAPA. The last fan I know of
>to try belonging to _every_ sf-fandom apa was Mike Gunderloy,
>sometime in the 1970's.
Poor fool. Even though there were only four fan apas going
when I entered fandom, I believe there were only a small
handful of omniapans--Ray Schaffer, Bruce Pelz, maybe one or
two others.
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Dr Gafia
In article <4tiauo$4...@access2.digex.net>,
ly...@access2.digex.net writes:
>...APA-X (formerly known as the Carbon-Reproduced Amateur
>Press Association, or CRAPA) came into existence as a backlash
>against omniapans.
Actually, Dick, it was known as the "Carbon-Reproduced Amateur
Press"--"Association" was never part of the title. All but one
of the original members--Alfred McCoy Andrews was the
exception--were 15- and 16-year olds (Bill Meyers, who founded
the group; Es Adams and Glenn King were the others) and much
inclined to chortle over the acronym "CRAP". The original CRAP
was indeed carbon-paper reproduced in "editions" of four. I
believe Bruce Pelz replaced Andrews when Andrews died; Ted
Johnstone was added when Es Adams dropped out, and I was added
as a fifth member when the membership was first expanded.
We had at least two people on our waiting list and within only
a couple of cycles decided that ditto and hekto were published
with carbons and carbon made up the coloring agent in
mimeograph ink, so we could take on 10 or 15 members and still
legitimately keep the name.
Your details about APA X (a.k.a. Apex) are right on the money,
otherwise.
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Dr Gafia
In article <4tj19m$i...@universe.digex.net>,
nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>Daniel Goodman <dsg...@mixer.visi.com> wrote:
>
>>Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk
>>songs, but people who identify themselves as filkers seem to
>> be relatively new.
>>Conventions specifically for filking -- when did they start?
>>
>Costumers might be a parallel group.
Maybe, but...well, Forry Ackerman wore a costume at the first
Worldcon, and the second (in Chicago) had the first costuming
event.
I don't know when filking -- which, when I heard about it, was
writing and singing songs about fans and fandom -- got started,
but I gather it was somewhat later. Con Pederson, a prominent
fan of the '40s, wrote the first version of "The Battle Hymn of
the Fanation" in the mid-'40s, I believe. I don't know of any
earlier filking.
Of course, the designation would have had to have been applied
retroactively, as the term was coined--or typoed, I believe--by
Karen Anderson in the early to mid '50s in a SAPSzine she
published.
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Mary Kay Kare
Daniel Goodman, as quoted by David Romm:
"> Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk songs,
>but people who identify themselves as filkers seem to be
>relatively new. Conventions specifically for filking -- when did
they start?"
Well, filkers who identify themselves as such have been around since
I started attending filks in 1979. Which, coincidentally enough,
was the year of the first filkcon. It was held in Toledo, and
sponsored by the filk foundation. What was, afaik, the first
commercially produced filk tape also came out of this con. I
believe the Ohio Valley Filk Fest (in Columbus OH) is the oldest
continually running filkcon. It was first held in 1984.
MK
Alan Laska
The term "filk music" was the result of a typo.
At a convention this type of music was know as "Science
Fiction Folk Music"...Some had written & printed a bunch
of lyrics for people to read & sing to music. Unfortunately,
he put a "i" instead of a "o" in "folk"...Thus the term "filk
music" to SF/F Fandom was born.
The first filk music I believe "professionally" that was
recorded. It should be POINTED OUT that it was not called
"filk music" at the time BECAUSE THE TERM was not INVENTED
yet...Was done by the late Allan Sherman famous for his
1960s cult hit "Hello Muddah, Hello Fuddah" which was
titled "Eight Foot Two, Solid Blue" sung to the song "Has
Anyone See My Gal". It was about a Martian that lands on Earth
looking for his girlfriend.
----Alan David Laska----
Dr Gafia (drg...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <4tj19m$i...@universe.digex.net>,
: nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
: >Daniel Goodman <dsg...@mixer.visi.com> wrote:
: >
: >>Filkers: There used to be people who wrote and sang filk
: >>songs, but people who identify themselves as filkers seem to
: >> be relatively new.
: >Costumers might be a parallel group.
: I don't know when filking -- which, when I heard about it, was
: writing and singing songs about fans and fandom -- got started,
: but I gather it was somewhat later. Con Pederson, a prominent
: fan of the '40s, wrote the first version of "The Battle Hymn of
: the Fanation" in the mid-'40s, I believe. I don't know of any
: earlier filking.
: --rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Chuck Connor
-=> Quoting p...@panix.com to All <=-
pn> Certainly Gunderloy was the better writer of the two, to put it
pn> mildly.
This has me very curious mainly as I normally associate Mike with his
Factsheet Five years. Did he just write for apas before that or was he
involved with other fanzines before FF5?
ChucK
--
Chuck Connor 2:441/104
Chuck....@filklore.demon.co.uk
via Minstrel's Wyrmhole
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
> The term "filk music" was the result of a typo.
> At a convention this type of music was know as "Science
> Fiction Folk Music"...Some had written & printed a bunch
> of lyrics for people to read & sing to music. Unfortunately,
> he put a "i" instead of a "o" in "folk"...Thus the term "filk
> music" to SF/F Fandom was born.
I'd understood this person to be a "she" (Karen Anderson) and for it to
have happened in an apazine, not a hymnal or anything.
>
> The first filk music I believe "professionally" that was
> recorded. It should be POINTED OUT that it was not called
> "filk music" at the time BECAUSE THE TERM was not INVENTED
> yet...Was done by the late Allan Sherman famous for his
> 1960s cult hit "Hello Muddah, Hello Fuddah" which was
> titled "Eight Foot Two, Solid Blue" sung to the song "Has
> Anyone See My Gal". It was about a Martian that lands on Earth
> looking for his girlfriend.
I dunno. Even aside from songs like "Flying Purple People Eater" or
"Fairies at the Bottom of My Garden" or "Little Green Man", which, while
unequivocally of fantastic content (though not fannish), didn't use existing
tunes (which for a while seemed to be a requirement of filk, though no longer),
there's the Andrews Sisters recording of "Boogie with the Carmen Touch", which
is sometime in the late 1940s or early 1950s. I quote: "What makes saucers
come round from Mars, and why do Masons leave their Mason jars?" (It is, of
course, the b. with the c. t.)
>
> ----Alan David Laska----
>
>
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056
Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210
===============================================================================
Gary Farber
Alan Laska (bi...@netcom.com) wrote:
: The term "filk music" was the result of a typo.
: At a convention this type of music was know as "Science
: Fiction Folk Music"...Some had written & printed a bunch
: of lyrics for people to read & sing to music. Unfortunately,
: he put a "i" instead of a "o" in "folk"...Thus the term "filk
: music" to SF/F Fandom was born.
No "he"; it was Karen Anderson. But there was no music called "science
fiction folk music" in any formal sense; it was just the usual fannish
kidding around.
: The first filk music I believe "professionally" that was
: recorded. It should be POINTED OUT that it was not called
: "filk music" at the time BECAUSE THE TERM was not INVENTED
: yet...Was done by the late Allan Sherman famous for his
: 1960s cult hit "Hello Muddah, Hello Fuddah" which was
: titled "Eight Foot Two, Solid Blue" sung to the song "Has
: Anyone See My Gal". It was about a Martian that lands on Earth
: looking for his girlfriend.
Since Allan Sherman, though a very amusing fellow, wasn't in the slightest
way a fan, I think crediting him with "professional" "filk music" is quite
ridiculous, but what do I know? But the only connection seems to be that
this was a parodic song with an sf reference, and I don't think that does
it. Maybe that's what filkers now call filk, but to give historic credit,
I say you have to point to the author being a fan. In the 1960s, Allan
Sherman was never ever remotely considered as a "filk" singer; this is
silly -- he had no connection to fandom. Is "Weird Al" Yankovic a "filk
singer"? No.
Or has "filking" wandered sufficiently from its roots in sf fandom that
it should now be given an entirely new meaning?
ly...@access1.digex.net
In article <4ttis1$l...@panix2.panix.com>,
Gary Farber <gfa...@panix.com> wrote:
>Alan Laska (bi...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: The term "filk music" was the result of a typo.
>: At a convention this type of music was know as "Science
>: Fiction Folk Music"...Some had written & printed a bunch
>: of lyrics for people to read & sing to music. Unfortunately,
>: he put a "i" instead of a "o" in "folk"...Thus the term "filk
>: music" to SF/F Fandom was born.
>
>No "he"; it was Karen Anderson. But there was no music called "science
>fiction folk music" in any formal sense; it was just the usual fannish
>kidding around.
Au contraire. It was actually the legendary Lee Jacobs who accidentally
invented the term, back in the 1950s. He had prepared a manuscript on
science fiction and folk music, but due to a typo, the title came out as
"The Influence of Science Fiction on Modern American Filk Music".
(Bob Briggs was present, and witnessed the whole thing; reportedly,
Jacobs saw the typo, but made the comment that "-What the heck, leave
it in.-" or somesuch.)
Now, this might have created no stir in fandom at all except for one
thing: Wrai Ballard, who was OE of the apa SAPS at the time, rejected the
manuscript from inclusion in the apa. It was the *publicity* of this
decision that made the rounds of fandom of that day that was responsible
for popularizing the term.
RWL
David G. Bell
> Alan Laska (bi...@netcom.com) wrote:
> : The term "filk music" was the result of a typo.
> : At a convention this type of music was know as "Science
> : Fiction Folk Music"...Some had written & printed a bunch
> : of lyrics for people to read & sing to music. Unfortunately,
> : he put a "i" instead of a "o" in "folk"...Thus the term "filk
> : music" to SF/F Fandom was born.
>
> No "he"; it was Karen Anderson. But there was no music called "science
> fiction folk music" in any formal sense; it was just the usual fannish
> kidding around.
>
> : The first filk music I believe "professionally" that was
> : recorded. It should be POINTED OUT that it was not called
> : "filk music" at the time BECAUSE THE TERM was not INVENTED
> : yet...Was done by the late Allan Sherman famous for his
> : 1960s cult hit "Hello Muddah, Hello Fuddah" which was
> : titled "Eight Foot Two, Solid Blue" sung to the song "Has
> : Anyone See My Gal". It was about a Martian that lands on Earth
> : looking for his girlfriend.
>
> Since Allan Sherman, though a very amusing fellow, wasn't in the slightest
> way a fan, I think crediting him with "professional" "filk music" is quite
> ridiculous, but what do I know? But the only connection seems to be that
> this was a parodic song with an sf reference, and I don't think that does
> it. Maybe that's what filkers now call filk, but to give historic credit,
> I say you have to point to the author being a fan. In the 1960s, Allan
> Sherman was never ever remotely considered as a "filk" singer; this is
> silly -- he had no connection to fandom. Is "Weird Al" Yankovic a "filk
> singer"? No.
>
> Or has "filking" wandered sufficiently from its roots in sf fandom that
> it should now be given an entirely new meaning?
I think you're right -- the fannish element is a vital part of any
definition of filk music. Otherwise, you just have another folk-singer
out there. Now, that doesn't exclude the possibility that a non-fannish
song can _become_ filk, as it becomes adopted by some part or other of
the broad fannish community. Take Kipling as an instance. There are
some very good settings of his verse to music, and they have become a
part of the accepted material at filker gatherings.
Julian Warner
Are you suggesting that Gary should sign himself as _Gary Farber E.U._?
Less kind souls may suggest that it should be _Gary Farber P.U._.
(but i would not be one of those unkind souls of course)
<sfx: searches mrs byrnes dictionary of unusual and preposterous
emoticons for appropriate graphic embellishment... damn! it's not
there.>
julian.
Julian Warner
Ulrika wrote:
<to pam wells...>
> You're number two.
there are certain persons in uk fandom who may be described as
great steaming heaps of number two but i am sure that pam is
not one of them.
<sfx: sounds of large number of donkeys a la _fred the oyster_>
julian.
Arthur Hlavaty
Julian Warner (jul...@ncc1701.apana.org.au) wrote:
: Are you suggesting that Gary should sign himself as _Gary Farber E.U._?
Eeeuuwww!!
Alan Laska
----Alan David Laska----
Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote:
:
: : The first filk music I believe "professionally" that was
: : recorded. It should be POINTED OUT that it was not called
: : "filk music" at the time BECAUSE THE TERM was not INVENTED
: : yet...Was done by the late Allan Sherman famous for his
: : 1960s cult hit "Hello Muddah, Hello Fuddah" which was
: : titled "Eight Foot Two, Solid Blue" sung to the song "Has
: : Anyone See My Gal". It was about a Martian that lands on Earth
: : looking for his girlfriend.
: Since Allan Sherman, though a very amusing fellow, wasn't in the slightest
: way a fan, I think crediting him with "professional" "filk music" is quite
: ridiculous, but what do I know? But the only connection seems to be that
: this was a parodic song with an sf reference, and I don't think that does
: it. Maybe that's what filkers now call filk, but to give historic credit,
: I say you have to point to the author being a fan. In the 1960s, Allan
: Sherman was never ever remotely considered as a "filk" singer; this is
: silly -- he had no connection to fandom. Is "Weird Al" Yankovic a "filk
: singer"? No.
: Or has "filking" wandered sufficiently from its roots in sf fandom that
: it should now be given an entirely new meaning?
: --
FanmailAPH
On 2 Aug 1996 23:42:26 -0400, ly...@access1.digex.net (Dick Lynch) wrote:
"Au contraire. It was actually the legendary Lee Jacobs who accidentally
invented the term, back in the 1950s. He had prepared a manuscript on
science fiction and folk music, but due to a typo, the title came out as
"The Influence of Science Fiction on Modern American Filk Music".
(Bob Briggs was present, and witnessed the whole thing; reportedly,
Jacobs saw the typo, but made the comment that "-What the heck, leave
it in.-" or somesuch.)"
"Now, this might have created no stir in fandom at all except for one
thing: Wrai Ballard, who was OE of the apa SAPS at the time, rejected the
manuscript from inclusion in the apa. It was the *publicity* of this
decision that made the rounds of fandom of that day that was responsible
for popularizing the term."
This is the account of the creation of the term which I am most familiar
with. No other claim to the creation of the term has been pressed with
sufficient detail or zeal to convince me of its veracity. I've always
wondered, tho; what did Ballard find so objectionable in Jacobs'
manuscript?
Yours in Roscoe, A. P. Hooper
|#385| Jedi Squire
RE: Re: First Filks?
BY: win...@SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")
>In article <bigalDv...@netcom.com>, bi...@netcom.com (Alan Laska)
>writes:
>
>> The term "filk music" was the result of a typo.
>> At a convention this type of music was know as "Science
>> Fiction Folk Music"...Some had written & printed a bunch
>> of lyrics for people to read & sing to music. Unfortunately,
>> he put a "i" instead of a "o" in "folk"...Thus the term "filk
>> music" to SF/F Fandom was born.
>
>I'd understood this person to be a "she" (Karen Anderson) and for it to
>have happened in an apazine, not a hymnal or anything.
Then why, I wonder, do I recall the term as originating with Jack
Harness?
******************************************************************************
The header address above is a Usenet gateway =only=. E-Mail replies should be
addressed to 263-...@tnet.bluethun.com. Thank you. Neep-neep. Plergb.
******************************************************************************
|#385| Jedi Squire
RE: Re: First Filks?
BY: gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber)
>In the 1960s, Allan Sherman was never ever remotely considered as a "filk"
>singer; this is silly -- he had no connection to fandom. Is "Weird Al"
>Yankovic a "filk singer"? No.
And he would agree with you -- I know because I asked him.
He was performing at a suburban under-21 club here in St. Louis about
ten or so years ago; through the kind offices of a fast-talking friend, I
got to go backstage and speak with him for about twenty minutes after the
show had ended. Referring to his parody "Yoda", I said to him, "You know,
you've written one of the best filksongs ever, amd I'll bet that you don't
know what a filksong is." He replied that, no, he hadn't known until some
fans in upstate New York explained to him what a filksong was and where the
term came from. I remarked that it probably wasn't any great interest in
science fiction as such which caused him to write that song, but rather that
the STAR WARS films were part of the general popular culture from which he
drew for purposes of parody. He said that I had hit exactly upon it, and
complimented me on my perception.
I'm sure that he would have no trouble dealing with s. f. fans or s. f.
fandom, should he find himself at a convention -- he's very personable, open,
easy to converse with. As a professional parody writer, I'm sure he'd
appreciate the creativity which goes into many filksongs. However, science
fiction is just not a big deal to him personally, one way or the other.
David E Romm
In article <1.3203884D.|#385|.pcg...@crl.com>, pcg...@crl.com (|"#385"|)
(Jedi Squire) wrote:
> I remarked that it probably wasn't any great interest in
> science fiction as such which caused him to write that song, but rather that
> the STAR WARS films were part of the general popular culture from which he
> drew for purposes of parody. He said that I had hit exactly upon it, and
> complimented me on my perception.
And maybe you shouldn't be asking leading questions. While I suspect
you're take on him is accurate, it sounds like he was just being
agreeable.
> I'm sure that he would have no trouble dealing with s. f. fans or s. f.
> fandom, should he find himself at a convention -- he's very personable, open,
> easy to converse with.
Definately a protofan.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"I fell on my knees and cried and cried, and that's when those security guards threw us out." -- Weird Al, "The Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota"
Dr Gafia
Interesting. A check of Dejaviews reveals that I am, hands down, the
person on internet news groups who most frequently mentions
_The Enchanted Duplicator_.
Does that say something, or does that say something?
--rich brown
Mark Bernstein
Eminent Usenetter Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote:
: Since Allan Sherman, though a very amusing fellow, wasn't in the slightest
: way a fan, I think crediting him with "professional" "filk music" is quite
: ridiculous, but what do I know? But the only connection seems to be that
: this was a parodic song with an sf reference, and I don't think that does
: it. Maybe that's what filkers now call filk . . .
As a regular reader of alt.music.filk, I can say with some authority that
the definitions of "filk" and "filkers" are every bit as solid, unchanging,
and uncontroversial as the definitions of "science fiction", "fan", and
"fandom".
--
Mark Bernstein
m...@arbortext.com
Dr Gafia
In article <4u2usl$p...@condor.ic.net>, m...@aspen.arbortext.com
(Mark Bernstein) writes:
IROFL.
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Gary Farber
Dr Gafia (drg...@aol.com) wrote:
: Interesting. A check of Dejaviews reveals that I am, hands down, the
: person on internet news groups who most frequently mentions
: _The Enchanted Duplicator_.
: Does that say something, or does that say something?
Rich? Just curious what methodology you used? Could you elaborate,
please? The current database on Deja shows:
Deja News Results of Query: "the enchanted duplicator"
8 Hits:
Date Scr Subject Newsgroup
Author
1. 96/08/11 032 Re: The Culture of Net rec.arts.sf.fandom
p...@panix.com (P
2. 96/08/04 031 Record rec.arts.sf.fandom
drg...@aol.com
3. 96/08/11 030 Re: The Culture of Net rec.arts.sf.fandom Chris
Croughton
4. 96/08/11 028 Re: The Culture of Net rec.arts.sf.fandom
drg...@aol.com
5. 96/07/14 028 Re: Ideas About Ideals rec.arts.sf.fandom
p...@panix.com (P
6. 96/07/20 026 Re: Toner - Fannish co rec.arts.sf.fandom
romm@winternet.c
7. 96/07/15 026 Re: Toner - Fannish co rec.arts.sf.fandom
romm@winternet.c
8. 96/07/14 026 Ideas About Ideals (Wa rec.arts.sf.fandom
drg...@aol.com
which is a three way tie.
Doing a power search, using the old database, and sorting by author shows
that, more than any other mention, you post your "Fan Terms" List (and
thanks again for doing so) repeatedly. And *that's* the largest number of
mentions.
Note that Deja also splits long posts into parts, further stretching your
"count." (Note the "#1/5, 2/5, 3/5" etc., labeling.) I didn't do an
exhaustive study of this, but a quick check seems to show that you
actually mentioned "the enchanted duplicator" 8 times if we don't count
the Listings. I may have miscounted, and would welcome a correction. It
also appears that I've mentioned it 16 times. Make of that what you will.
For any but the masochistic, you can stop reading this post now. The
remainder of it is the list of the 118 posters mentioning "the enchanted
duplicator," sorted by author. No other words follow, aside from my
.sig.
[LINK] Visit our Sponsor
_________________________________________________________________
Deja News Results of Query: "the enchanted duplicator"
118 Hits:
Date Scr Subject Newsgroup Author
1. 96/05/09 027 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom "David G. Bell"
2. 95/09/23 022 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom "David G. Bell"
3. 95/09/23 024 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom Alison Scott <Al
4. 95/09/24 024 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom Alison Scott <Al
5. 96/01/04 027 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom Bob Webber <webb
6. 95/08/05 026 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom Brian Jordan <bj
7. 95/07/29 024 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom Chris Croughton
8. 95/08/05 024 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom Chris Croughton
9. 95/08/13 020 Re: Tourists rec.arts.sf.fandom Chris Croughton
10. 95/06/02 017 Fandom Just the Sa#1/2 rec.arts.sf.fandom GARY112@delphi.c
11. 95/07/31 022 Re: (fwd) Re: Bob Shaw rec.arts.sf.written Gary Farber <gfa
12. 96/05/07 027 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom Geri Sullivan <g
13. 96/05/07 026 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom Geri Sullivan <g
14. 96/05/17 021 Re: if it ain't SF#1/2 alt.music.filk Jordin Kare <jtk
15. 95/12/28 023 Re: "Mundane" alt.music.filk Karen.Rodgers@f7
16. 96/05/07 029 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom Leigh Edmonds <l
17. 96/04/28 023 Re: [FANHIST] Changes rec.arts.sf.fandom Leigh Edmonds <l
18. 95/07/31 024 Re: Bob Shaw rec.arts.sf.written Peter Wilkin <wi
19. 96/05/21 021 Re: Redd Boggs, farewe rec.arts.sf.fandom Slow...@msn.com
20. 95/08/08 022 Re: Tourists rec.arts.sf.fandom Ulrika <ulrika@a
21. 95/08/09 020 Re: Tourists #1/2 rec.arts.sf.fandom Ulrika O'Brien <
22. 95/07/31 022 Re: Bob Shaw rec.arts.sf.written aha...@clark.ne
23. 95/07/31 022 Re: (fwd) Re: Bob Shaw rec.arts.sf.written aha...@clark.ne
24. 96/05/10 029 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom ave...@cix.compu
25. 95/08/03 024 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom ave...@cix.compu
26. 95/08/07 024 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom ave...@cix.compu
27. 95/04/15 022 Re: L.A.con III: a tra rec.arts.sf.fandom ddeckert@ufsmain
28. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
29. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
30. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: A - E #6/6 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
31. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
32. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
33. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: A - E #6/6 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
34. 95/08/20 024 Re: All Knowledge Is C rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
35. 96/01/03 023 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
36. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: G-O #2/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
37. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: G-O #3/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
38. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: A-F #5/7 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
39. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: A-F #5/7 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
40. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: G-O #2/5 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
41. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: G-O #3/5 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
42. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: G-O #2/5 alt.fandom.cons drg...@aol.com
43. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms: G-O #3/5 alt.fandom.cons drg...@aol.com
44. 96/03/25 022 Fan Terms A-F #5/7 alt.fandom.cons drg...@aol.com
45. 96/06/09 022 Fan Terms: A - E #6/6 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
46. 96/06/09 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
47. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
48. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: F - K #5/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
49. 96/06/10 022 Fan Terms: A - E #6/6 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
50. 95/08/03 022 Re: "New" v.1, n.2 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
51. 95/06/27 022 Fandard Stan Terms#4/7 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
52. 96/05/13 021 Fan Terms: G - O #2/5 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
53. 96/05/13 021 Fan Terms: A - F #6/9 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
54. 96/05/13 021 Fan Terms: A - F #6/9 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
55. 96/05/13 021 Fan Terms: G - O #2/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
56. 96/05/13 021 Fan Terms: G - O #2/5 alt.fandom.cons drg...@aol.com
57. 96/05/13 021 Fan Terms: A - F #6/9 alt.fandom.cons drg...@aol.com
58. 95/08/17 021 Fan Terms: A - M #3/7 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
59. 96/06/03 021 Re: My annual address rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
60. 95/12/30 021 Fan Terms - A-L #4/8 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
61. 95/12/30 021 Fan Terms - M-Z #1/7 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
62. 96/05/01 021 May: List of Curre#2/8 alt.fandom.cons drg...@aol.com
63. 95/12/30 021 Fan Terms - A to L#4/8 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
64. 96/05/01 021 May: A List of Cur#2/8 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
65. 95/12/30 021 Fan Terms - M - Z #1/7 rec.arts.sf.written drg...@aol.com
66. 96/05/01 021 MAY: A List of Cur#2/8 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
67. 95/06/27 021 Fandard Stan Terms#2/7 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
68. 95/08/08 020 Re: Tourists rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
69. 95/04/26 019 Re: Defining Fanzi#1/4 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
70. 95/04/26 019 Re: Defining Fanzi#1/4 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
71. 95/05/27 019 Re: LL Reconsidere#2/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
72. 95/05/27 019 Re: LL Reconsidere#3/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
73. 96/02/09 019 Fan Terms: A - F #5/7 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
74. 96/02/09 019 Fan Terms: G - O #2/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
75. 95/06/02 019 Re: LL Reconsidere#1/2 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
76. 96/02/09 019 Fan Terms: G - O #3/5 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
77. 95/05/17 017 Lan's Lantern (was#3/3 rec.arts.sf.fandom drg...@aol.com
78. 96/06/07 021 Ansible 107 [long]#3/6 rec.arts.sf.fandom d...@ansible.demo
79. 96/04/28 027 Re: [FANHIST] Changes rec.arts.sf.fandom fa...@netcom4.ne
80. 96/05/31 021 Subject: Re: Seeki#1/2 rec.arts.sf.fandom fitc...@aol.co
81. 96/05/31 023 Re: Seeking Zines of Y rec.arts.sf.fandom ga...@enter.net
82. 96/05/04 029 The Enchanted Duplicat rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
83. 96/05/07 029 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
84. 96/01/03 027 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
85. 96/05/07 025 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
86. 95/07/30 024 Re: Bob Shaw rec.arts.sf.written gfa...@panix.co
87. 95/09/23 024 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
88. 96/05/15 023 Re: Redd Boggs, farewe rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
89. 95/08/03 022 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
90. 95/08/21 022 Re: All Knowledge Is C rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
91. 95/11/07 020 Re: Fannish Memes (was rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
92. 95/07/28 020 Re: FANHISTORY rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
93. 95/08/14 020 Re: Tourists rec.arts.sf.fandom gfa...@panix.co
94. 95/08/03 024 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom ha...@netcom.com
95. 95/08/22 020 Re: All Knowledge #1/2 rec.arts.sf.fandom ha...@netcom.com
96. 95/11/30 024 Re: Fannish Dramatics rec.arts.sf.fandom ka...@scn.org (Ka
97. 96/04/09 026 Re: upset rec.arts.sf.fandom kee...@world.std
98. 96/02/19 025 Re: Bob Shaw Dead alt.obituaries l...@put.com (Loui
99. 95/08/08 024 Re: Tourists rec.arts.sf.fandom le...@smith.chi.i
100. 95/08/04 022 Re: "New" v.1, n.2 rec.arts.sf.fandom le...@smith.chi.i
101. 96/01/08 021 Re: Fan & Pro "Species rec.arts.sf.fandom le...@smith.chi.i
102. 95/09/04 020 Re: Intersection rec.arts.sf.fandom lindsay.crawford
103. 95/09/26 020 Re: Fumbling in the Tw rec.arts.sf.fandom lindsay.crawford
104. 96/05/31 023 Re: My annual address rec.arts.sf.fandom ly...@access1.di
105. 95/08/07 026 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom ma...@zeus.bris.
106. 96/05/08 029 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom mo...@dorsai.org
107. 95/09/26 024 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom philip@aleytys.p
108. 96/01/03 029 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom p...@tor.com (P N
109. 95/11/07 020 Re: Fannish Memes (was rec.arts.sf.fandom p...@tor.com (P N
110. 96/05/07 029 Re: The Enchanted Dupl rec.arts.sf.fandom romm@winternet.c
111. 95/08/10 027 Re: TAFF REPORTS ONLIN rec.arts.sf.fandom romm@winternet.c
112. 95/08/02 024 Re: "New" v.1, n.2 rec.arts.sf.fandom romm@winternet.c
113. 95/08/14 022 Re: "New" v.1, n.2 rec.arts.sf.fandom romm@winternet.c
114. 95/09/24 022 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom romm@winternet.c
115. 96/03/27 026 Re: No! Nonononono.... alt.sysadmin.recove steve.glover@uko
116. 96/04/28 027 Re: [FANHIST] Changes rec.arts.sf.fandom ulr...@aol.com (
117. 96/04/29 028 Re: [FANHIST] Changes rec.arts.sf.fandom whitroth@gagme.w
118. 95/09/24 022 Re: Fibertone...the en rec.arts.sf.fandom yb...@panix.com
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* enchanted: 19645
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P Nielsen Hayden
Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote:
[incredibly long DejaNews-based analysis of who has mentioned The Enchanted
Duplicator the most times on rec.arts.sf.fandom snipped]
Now _that_'s one for the Fannish Worry Book. In fact, I suspect it may be
one of the all-time champion Baroque Fannish Worries...
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@tor.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Gary Farber
P Nielsen Hayden (p...@panix.com) wrote:
: Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote:
: [incredibly long DejaNews-based analysis of who has mentioned The Enchanted
: Duplicator the most times on rec.arts.sf.fandom snipped]
: Now _that_'s one for the Fannish Worry Book. In fact, I suspect it may be
: one of the all-time champion Baroque Fannish Worries...
Yes, and I hope you noticed my use of twiltone "high-ASCII." Or is it
"sercon-ASCII"?
Since I've been offline for a few days, I thought I'd come back by
first addressing The Most Important Issues (note inane use of technique
favored by Inane Charles Burbee and Calvin Demmon; I wonder what Andy
thinks of "Hot Shit," and if he's asked John D. Berry his opinion of the
inanity).
But it's probably all due to Americans having no sense of irony.
--
-- Gary Farber gfa...@panix.com
The Enchanted Duplicator The Enchanted Duplicator The Enc
hanted Duplicator The Enchanted Duplicator The Enchanted
David E Romm
> But it's probably all due to Americans having no sense of irony.
With all due respect, Gary, I should point out that as much as I've
enjoyed reading The Enchanged Duplicator, and indeed have read parts The
Enchanted Duplicator OUT LOUD, into a microphone, at Geri Sullivan's
behest (along with several people who read The Enchanted Duplicator out
loud), when I finally got my chance to talk to Walt Willis alone, we
didn't talk about The Enchanted Duplicator, or even either of the sequels
to The Enchanted Duplicator. I figured that Walt had been asked about The
Enchanted Duplicator billions and billions of times, and had talked about
40-year-old fannish writings until he just didn't care any more.
So we talked about golf. But that's a diffferent story.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
There are no mashie niblicks in The Enchanted Duplicator.
Seth Breidbart
In article <4ure58$p...@panix2.panix.com>,
Gary Farber <gfa...@panix.com> wrote:
>Dr Gafia (drg...@aol.com) wrote:
>: Interesting. A check of Dejaviews reveals that I am, hands down, the
>: person on internet news groups who most frequently mentions
>: _The Enchanted Duplicator_.
>
>: Does that say something, or does that say something?
>
>Rich? Just curious what methodology you used? Could you elaborate,
>please? The current database on Deja shows:
>which is a three way tie.
Did you remove any mentions that were quotations of somebody else
mentioning it?
Seth
Chris Croughton
In article <romm-14089...@ppp-66-50.dialup.winternet.com>
ro...@winternet.com "David E Romm" wrote:
>With all due respect, Gary, I should point out that as much as I've
>enjoyed reading The Enchanged Duplicator, and indeed have read parts The
>Enchanted Duplicator OUT LOUD, into a microphone, at Geri Sullivan's
>behest (along with several people who read The Enchanted Duplicator out
>loud), when I finally got my chance to talk to Walt Willis alone, we
>didn't talk about The Enchanted Duplicator, or even either of the sequels
>to The Enchanted Duplicator. I figured that Walt had been asked about The
>Enchanted Duplicator billions and billions of times, and had talked about
>40-year-old fannish writings until he just didn't care any more.
Not that you're trying to get your rating higher or anything like that,
of course <g>...
>So we talked about golf. But that's a diffferent story.
Go on, tell us. We won't tell anyone else...
.-------------------------------.-------------------------------------.
| ch...@keris.demon.co.uk | FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life) |
`-------------------------------^-------------------------------------'
Dr Gafia
Gary Farber (gfa...@panix.com) wrote, wondering about my
claim of holding the record:
[incredibly long Dejanews-based analysis of who has mentioned
T.E.D. the most times on rec.arts.sf.fandom snipped]
My search on Dejanews was made prior to the most recent
exchange with Patrick and Dave--and they were mentioning it
because it was the Subject of Discussion _I_ had brought up.
Thus, in the short run, they "tied" my record.
Sure, the listing in my "fan terms," which I try to repost at
least every other month, helps ensure that I hold the overall
record hands down.
But note that I've--for the time being, anyway--"sworn off"; I
really wouldn't want to give Patrick a peptic ulcer and my
mention of the "record" was in part my acknowledgment that I
was afraid I was starting to sound a bit like a born-again
Christian constantly "citing" passages out of the Bible.
Mind, I will probably be posting the "fan terms" again after I
get back from Toner, which in turn will probably maintain the
record for me--Baroque though such a concern may be . . . .
--rich brown
David E Romm
In article <Snews.960814.20...@keris.demon.co.uk>, Chris
Croughton <ch...@keris.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <romm-14089...@ppp-66-50.dialup.winternet.com>
> ro...@winternet.com "David E Romm" wrote:
> >So we talked about golf. But that's a diffferent story.
>
> Go on, tell us. We won't tell anyone else...
Remind me after the Worldcon. I'm leaving tomorrow morning for SF
(cousin's wedding) and thence to LA. I'm staying with my aunt, who's
wired so I should be able to check e-mail, but status of Usenet access is
unknown.
Opening Ceremonies at the Worldcon is shaping up to be a lot of fun.
Everything's falling into place. (Though the music I'd commissioned is
taking a bit longer to get done.) A very fannish event, to be sure. 7pm
Thurs Aug. 29, Anaheim Arena.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"It's a dead body."
"Yeah, but is it art?" -- Absolutely Fabulous
|#385| Jedi Squire
RE: Re: Record
BY: gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber)
THE ENCHANTED DUPLICATOR
THE ENCHANTED DUPLICATOR
THE ENCHANTED DUPLICATOR
THE ENCHANTED DUPLICATOR
THE ENCHANTED DUPLICATOR
(I just wanted my "name" to show up the next time anyone did a search -- I
do so hate being left out!)