Fandom Organizations
James Morrow
like to find an Organization that is active in Cons, Costuming, Fanzines,
Science Fiction appreciation and that sort of thing. What is available?
Can I become involved in this organization from Charlotte, NC. If I
can't find this organization, how do I start a non profit organization
that will allwo this sort of thing?
James Morrow
Sharon L Sbarsky
Many clubs such as NESFA have members from all over the World. While it
is difficult to participate fully from NC, we do have other members from
there. A Subscribing Membership is $16, you will get Instant Message
(published about twice monthly) and Proper Boskonian (lately 2-3 times a
year). You can also particpate in APA:NESFA if you wish (well, actually
you can do that without being a NESFAn). You'll also get firsthand
knowledge of upcoming NESFA Press and information about Boskone.
To join NESFA send $16 to:
NESFA
PO Box 809
Framingham, MA 01701-0203
Sharon
Bernard Peek
>
> I would love to find a Science Fiction/Fantasy organization. I would
> like to find an Organization that is active in Cons, Costuming, Fanzines,
> Science Fiction appreciation and that sort of thing. What is available?
> Can I become involved in this organization from Charlotte, NC. If I
> can't find this organization, how do I start a non profit organization
> that will allwo this sort of thing?
SF fans hate being organised, and will band together to fight it.
(I can't remember the origin of that, it sounds like something Bob
Shaw would say.)
--
Bernard Peek
I.T and Management Development Trainer to the Cognoscenti
b...@intersec.demon.co.uk
Lindsay Crawford
>Subject: Re: Fandom Organizations
SLS>In article <43a8ec$c...@ralph.vnet.net>, James Morrow
<ach...@vnet.net> wrote:
>> I would love to find a Science Fiction/Fantasy organization.
<snipping snipping snipping scissor man>
SLS>Many clubs such as NESFA have members from all over the World. While
>it is difficult to participate fully from NC, we do have other
>members from there. A Subscribing Membership is $16, you will get
>Instant Message (published about twice monthly) and Proper Boskonian
>(lately 2-3 times a year). You can also particpate in APA:NESFA if
>you wish (well, actually you can do that without being a NESFAn).
>You'll also get firsthand knowledge of upcoming NESFA Press and
>information about Boskone.
SLS>To join NESFA send $16 to:
SLS>NESFA
>PO Box 809
>Framingham, MA 01701-0203
SLS>Sharon
Until now, I found it hard to belive in NESFA. Oh, I recall sitting on
the big wooden crate in the LASFS courtyard, a box about four feet tall,
of the same width and about 8 feet long. It was said to contain the
shaft, which NESFA had given LASFS, but I don't recall ever looking
inside. No matter what was in it, it was a good place to sit. But I
digress. In the olden days, when I was young and incredibley fortunate,
I went to cons, and sometimes had a few dollars to spend in the
hucksters room. I started a 3x5 card file of my SF books in 1974, and I
was reading and enjoying book reviews in the prozines before that, so I
think I was on the lookout for SF reference books from my very first
con (does everyone know that by now? Okay, once more then it's time for
bed: '75 Westercon #28 Oakland CA).
I recall the thrill I felt at buying Norm Metcalf's Index to the SF
Magazines 1951-1965 (an 8x11 bound volume) for $10 at the '80 Westercon
in L.A., and the pure ecstacy I felt at scoring the Day Index to the SF
Magazines 1926-1950 at the 1980 Worldcon in Boston (Noreascon II). The
dealer wanted a certain amount on Friday, but by Sunday he was willing
to take $30 for the index and 4 old Futures, early-mid 50's pulps for
those that wonder. The old Futures were priced an average of 2 buck
each, so the Index ran $22, not bad though it did have a crack in the
binding, nothing a pro couldn't fix (still needs fixing).
For some reason I never could afford the NESFA indexes to the SF
magazines, one for each year: 15 years worth would cost a hell of a lot
more than the same info in one volume. Of course that volume would cost
more now than it would in 1980, but it would be easier to put on disk
now too.
And now for something completely different: Does NESFA publish a New
England Fan Directory, like LASFS does for So Cal or David Clarke does
for the SF Bay Area? If so, I'd like to get one, so I could talk to some
NESFA people and see if there is anyone left in the world who thinks it
might be pleasant to discuss _enjoying_ SF and maybe even exchange a
little bibliographic info. You think it's weird being a fan? Or a fan
who reads SF? Try being someone who likes fanzines, cons, reads SF,
keeps the books (even after I've read them!) and even makes lists.
Maybe at my 51st con I might find someone who would enjoy talking to me
about various writers we've enjoyed, just for a few minutes. Even
before I began reading SF, at 12, in 1970, I felt alienated, but once I
began reading SF, and recognised it for a genre, realized that there
were a whole _set_ of books that went together, written by people who
shared something in common, I felt there must be someone who might begin
to suspect the existance of the possiblity of a clue as to what it might
be like to see things from my perspective. Also, here were a whole lot
of new ways to see things, which I could learn so I could see things
as others did.
NESFA sort of represents the unattainable ideal for me. In a way.
//L @23:25 Sun 17 Sep 95 //if you want me to see a reply sooner than
the 4 or 5 days it takes a rass-eff post to trickle down to emerald,
cc me a copy to lindsay....@emerald.com, where at least my personal
e-mail arrives sooner than not. **MELBOURNE IN '99**
---
* OLX 2.1 TD * Discoveries are often made by not following instructions.
Sharon L Sbarsky
Lindsay Crawford <lindsay....@emerald.com> wrote:
>On Sept 16 sba...@world.std.com (Sharon L Sbarsky) wrote:
>
>SLS>Many clubs such as NESFA have members from all over the World. While
> >it is difficult to participate fully from NC, we do have other
> >members from there. A Subscribing Membership is $16, you will get
> >Instant Message (published about twice monthly) and Proper Boskonian
> >(lately 2-3 times a year). You can also particpate in APA:NESFA if
> >you wish (well, actually you can do that without being a NESFAn).
> >You'll also get firsthand knowledge of upcoming NESFA Press and
> >information about Boskone.
>
>SLS>To join NESFA send $16 to:
>
>SLS>NESFA
> >PO Box 809
> >Framingham, MA 01701-0203
>
>the big wooden crate in the LASFS courtyard, a box about four feet tall,
>of the same width and about 8 feet long. It was said to contain the
>shaft, which NESFA had given LASFS, but I don't recall ever looking
>inside. No matter what was in it, it was a good place to sit. But I
>digress. In the olden days, when I was young and incredibley fortunate,
Well, it's good to know that the Shaft was good for something. :-)
>
>For some reason I never could afford the NESFA indexes to the SF
>magazines, one for each year: 15 years worth would cost a hell of a lot
>more than the same info in one volume. Of course that volume would cost
>more now than it would in 1980, but it would be easier to put on disk
>now too.
I'm sorry to say that we've fallen behind on producing the Indexes in the
last several years. The next one (1990-1991) will be out (all together
now) REAL SOON NOW. The good news is that we have a special discounted
price for people who want to buy all 15 issues (1966-1989, except
1984-1985) at once, $64.80. (plus $4 postage) It's still a bit of money, but
it is close to our actual costs. There has been some talk about producing a
single volume, but the data is not all convertible (the earlier indexes were
done on punch cards.) Maybe one of these years.
>
>And now for something completely different: Does NESFA publish a New
>England Fan Directory, like LASFS does for So Cal or David Clarke does
>for the SF Bay Area? If so, I'd like to get one, so I could talk to some
>NESFA people and see if there is anyone left in the world who thinks it
>might be pleasant to discuss _enjoying_ SF and maybe even exchange a
>little bibliographic info. You think it's weird being a fan? Or a fan
>who reads SF? Try being someone who likes fanzines, cons, reads SF,
>keeps the books (even after I've read them!) and even makes lists.
We don't publish a Directory, but twice yearly all NESFA Members get a
copy of our roster. This, of course, should not be used for a general
mailing.
As I said earlier, APA:NESFA is open to all (copy count is 60) and
contains reviews, discussions, etc. Contributors get the current plus
next two issues (Non-NESFAns also pay postage costs.)
>
>Maybe at my 51st con I might find someone who would enjoy talking to me
>about various writers we've enjoyed, just for a few minutes. Even
>before I began reading SF, at 12, in 1970, I felt alienated, but once I
>began reading SF, and recognised it for a genre, realized that there
>were a whole _set_ of books that went together, written by people who
>shared something in common, I felt there must be someone who might begin
>to suspect the existance of the possiblity of a clue as to what it might
>be like to see things from my perspective. Also, here were a whole lot
>of new ways to see things, which I could learn so I could see things
>as others did.
Intersection was my 150th convention, though you started earlier, my
first was Boskone 16 in 1979. Occasionally I do talk about SF with
friends at cons. :-)
>NESFA sort of represents the unattainable ideal for me. In a way.
Join. :-) It may be more difficult from a distance, but we would love to
hear new ideas.
>//L @23:25 Sun 17 Sep 95 //if you want me to see a reply sooner than
>the 4 or 5 days it takes a rass-eff post to trickle down to emerald,
>cc me a copy to lindsay....@emerald.com, where at least my personal
>e-mail arrives sooner than not. **MELBOURNE IN '99**
>---
> * OLX 2.1 TD * Discoveries are often made by not following instructions.
I hope the cc: worked. I'm still a newbie around here and I'm still learning.
Sharon
Gary Farber
: I would love to find a Science Fiction/Fantasy organization. I would
: Science Fiction appreciation and that sort of thing. What is available?
: Can I become involved in this organization from Charlotte, NC. If I
: can't find this organization, how do I start a non profit organization
: that will allwo this sort of thing?
I suggest you join the British SF Association, the BSFA. Someone offer
the proper information?
Why do you feel you need an "organization" to do fannish activity?
--
-- Gary Farber Brooklyn, New York City
gfa...@panix.com I is another, and I am that other. -- Rimbaud
Gary Farber
: You think it's weird being a fan? Or a fan
: who reads SF? Try being someone who likes fanzines, cons, reads SF,
: keeps the books (even after I've read them!) and even makes lists.
I think it's all the lists that put you slightly out there. But only
slightly.
ECWhitley
To Actually Discuss Science Fiction. I've always thought this was a Good
Committee for SF clubs to have.--Eva
Avedon Carol
Sharon Sbarsky writes:
> Intersection was my 150th convention, though you started earlier,
> my first was Boskone 16 in 1979. Occasionally I do talk about SF
> with friends at cons. :-)
My first con was in 1975. The most recent one I attended, PRECURSOR, was
my 65th. Says something about relative levels of affluence between the UK
and US I suspect.
-Rob (and here comes that pesky sig.file agin.....)
A. Carol
Feminists Against Censorship
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The left was aided in its ability to dismiss other viewpoints
by the consumption of hallucinogens, which also helped in the
formulation of its particular brand of conspiracy theories.
What drugs is the right taking?" - Ian Shoales
Dr Gafia
writes:
>Why do you (James Morrow) feel you need an "organization" to do fannish
activity?
My hunch: James is a hoax.
--rb
Ben Yalow
:ROB HANSEN HERE:
:Sharon Sbarsky writes:
:> Intersection was my 150th convention, though you started earlier,
:> my first was Boskone 16 in 1979. Occasionally I do talk about SF
:> with friends at cons. :-)
:My first con was in 1975. The most recent one I attended, PRECURSOR, was
:my 65th. Says something about relative levels of affluence between the UK
:and US I suspect.
:-Rob (and here comes that pesky sig.file agin.....)
It may be in part due to differences in affluence. I suspect it's due
far more to differences in ease of getting to "local" cons, and the
number of them to get to.
From where I live (and Sharon is pretty close to where I live; only a few
hours drive away), I can get to a dozen cons per year in a few hours
drive. And that doesn't count media cons, commercial cons, etc., of
which you could add another dozen, at least.
And US hotel room rates are generally cheaper than UK hotel rooms, at
least at convention rates, although they don't usually include breakfast.
So Sharon could do her 10 cons per year, which is all that she's
averaging, without doing any significant travel, and paying a lot less
than UK hotel rates.
In fact, of course, Sharon happens to travel pretty far to get to cons,
but I'm not sure that changes the general principle. If Sharon had said
300+, then she would have had to spend a lot more money, since then she
would have been forced to do lots of out-of-region travel, which is more
expensive, although cheaper than UK travel.
So while I think that there may be differences in relative affluence, I
think it's unproven from Sharon's posting.
Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
Paul Treadaway
>It may be in part due to differences in affluence. I suspect it's due
>far more to differences in ease of getting to "local" cons, and the
>number of them to get to.
Er, surely those things are not unrelated to relative affluence as well?
In particular, you would expect the number of cons to be roughly
proportional to affluence, from standard market economics.
Ben Yalow
:In article <442oh7$j...@panix3.panix.com>, Ben Yalow says...
In part, yes. However, I think that things like cultural effects,
transportation infrastructure, etc., which aren't closely connected to
affluence play a far more significant role in when and where cons spring up.
And, of course, random factors play an important role (I believe in the
Great Man school of history, not the Steam Engine Time school).
For example, if we look at where cons have appeared in the US, we have
the oldest continuing convention being Philcon, which goes back to 1936
(it's older than the Worldcon). Why is it that New York, less than 100
miles away, with a *substantially* larger fan (and total) population, was
unable to get its continuing convention going until two decades later?
New York also was, generally, a richer population, and has been all
along, so that doesn't seem to apply.
And why was the first Star Trek fanzine, and the first Star Trek con, in
New York, rather than the media center of Los Angeles. I suspect it's
because Devra Langsam wanted to do a Trek zine, so she started with
Spockanalia. And she happened to live in New York. And she played the
key role in starting up the first Trek con (although she didn't chair it).
Again, it wasn't an affluence situation.
I agree that relative afflence of various populations does play a role.
But I believe it's only one of a fairly large number of factors, and I'm
not at all convinced it's the most important one. Once there is enough
surplus income to hold a con (and it doesn't take that much), then the
question has more to do with the utility curves that the various people
see for going to conventions rather then spending their money on books,
or beer, or vacations in Spain, or a better car, or putting out a
fanzine, etc.
Steve Glover
>For example, if we look at where cons have appeared in the US, we have
>the oldest continuing convention being Philcon, which goes back to 1936
>(it's older than the Worldcon).
Um. That's neat, considering the first ever con was in February of
1937. And not in the f-NAC anyway ;-)
Steve, mixing it (or failing to?)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soliciting for November issue of Etranger: topics include morality in
works of people called Smith or about people called Smith; net stuff of likely
interest to SF fans, art... Deadline 15-OCT-1995: kur...@tardis.ed.ac.uk
Sharon L Sbarsky
>> my first was Boskone 16 in 1979. Occasionally I do talk about SF
>> with friends at cons. :-)
>
>my 65th. Says something about relative levels of affluence between the UK
>and US I suspect.
>
There are six major conventions on the Bos-Wash circuit, of which I
usually get to four or five per year. I also included a number of
relaxicons in my count. :-)
Lately, I've been attending a West Coast regional convention, OryCon, but
that was mainly due to my best friend getting married and moving out
there. It's a chance for us to visit.
Sharon
Gary Farber
: In article <44f8v2$h...@panix3.panix.com>, Ben Yalow <yb...@panix.com> wrote:
: >For example, if we look at where cons have appeared in the US, we have
: >the oldest continuing convention being Philcon, which goes back to 1936
: >(it's older than the Worldcon).
: Um. That's neat, considering the first ever con was in February of
: 1937. And not in the f-NAC anyway ;-)
I feel no personal stake in this. For what it's worth, Sam Moskowitz,
and all those who attended, have claimed since October 22nd, 1936, that
the visit of the members of the "International Scientific Association,"
including Don Wolheim, Fred Pohl, John Michel, Will Sykora, Dave Kyle,
George R. Hahn, and Herbert Goudket, to a delegation of Philly fans,
including Oswald (Ozzie) Train, Milton (Miltie) Rothman, and Bob (but not
Bobbie <g>) Madle that then toodled about town and "convened" at Madle's
home was what he refers to in THE IMMORTAL STORM as "the uncontested
title to the first convention in fan history. Rothman was elected
convention chairman, and Pohl secretary. It is interesting to note that
but for this scrap of democratic procedure, the honor would doubtless
have gone to British fans, who held a well-planned gathering on January
3, 1937, in Leeds, England."
-- page 82, THE IMMORTAL STORM (Hyperion edition)
I should have quoted more, because Moskowitz does make it clear that this
was planned in advance, and planned as a "convention" in advance, which
is what they called it before they left. It wasn't an after-the-fact
labeling.
However, I agree that the Leeds gathering was doubtless more organized,
and while I'm unclear as to exactly how many more fans participated in
the Philadelphia convention, the Leeds con was probably larger as well
(sorry, Rob, I no longer have those copies of THEN as they were on my
"best of" shelf where everything burned up).
Philcon has dated itself as maintaining continuity since then. I'm a
little too tired to post further about the history of this at the moment,
but I'm largely reliant on THE IMMORTAL STORM at the moment, anyway. In
any case, as I've said, I feel no personal stake in this argument, which
I've heard a number of times before, and if you want to regard the Leeds
con as the first "real" one, there's certainly a case to be made, and you
can be my guest at regarding it as no contest.
P Nielsen Hayden
in 1979, prompting Rob Hansen to comment:
>My first con was in 1975. The most recent one I attended, PRECURSOR, was
>my 65th. Says something about relative levels of affluence between the UK
>and US I suspect.
To which Sharon responded:
>I think it has more to do with the availibility of conventions to attend.
>There are six major conventions on the Bos-Wash circuit, of which I
>usually get to four or five per year.
I think Sharon has the right of it. My first was also in 1975, and
Intersection was my 121st. Looking at the list, it's notable that my
periods of heavy con attendance correspond much more to availability than to
affluence. My two periods of heaviest con attendance are the last few
years, during which I've been obliged to attend cons on the company dime,
and my first few years, when I didn't have two dimes to rub together. The
period during which I barely got to any conventions was when I lived in the
Northwest, when there were barely more than two or three annual conventions
within a thousand miles worth going to.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@tor.com : opinions mine
http://www.panix.com/~pnh : http://www.tor.com
David Dyer-Bennet
>In article <DFCo9...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
>Avedon Carol <ave...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>>ROB HANSEN HERE:
>>
>>Sharon Sbarsky writes:
>>
>>> Intersection was my 150th convention, though you started earlier,
>>> my first was Boskone 16 in 1979. Occasionally I do talk about SF
>>> with friends at cons. :-)
>>
>>My first con was in 1975. The most recent one I attended, PRECURSOR, was
>>my 65th. Says something about relative levels of affluence between the UK
>>and US I suspect.
>>
>I think it has more to do with the availibility of conventions to attend.
>There are six major conventions on the Bos-Wash circuit, of which I
>usually get to four or five per year. I also included a number of
>relaxicons in my count. :-)
What surprises *me* is that people have exact counts on the number of
conventions they've been to. I've been going to conventions since
1972 (Worldcon in LA), but I haven't the foggiest, other than by
estimating on the back of the envelope, how many I've been to by now.
(probably somewhere between 65 and 150 :-). I'm pretty sure I've
averaged three a year, and I'm pretty sure I haven't averaged 8).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, proprietor, The Terraboard Minneapolis, MN
http://www.ddb.com (sf, photo) d...@network.com, d...@terrabit.mn.org
http://www.ddb.com/{4th-Street,minicon31} (sf conventions)
Mail to <4t...@terrabit.mn.org> for Fourth Street Fantasy Convention info
Ben Yalow
>What surprises *me* is that people have exact counts on the number of
>conventions they've been to. I've been going to conventions since
>1972 (Worldcon in LA), but I haven't the foggiest, other than by
>estimating on the back of the envelope, how many I've been to by now.
>(probably somewhere between 65 and 150 :-). I'm pretty sure I've
>averaged three a year, and I'm pretty sure I haven't averaged 8).
What I have been doing is keeping track of bench marks, and then adding
appropriately. And, purely by chance, sometimes it works out as an easy
landmark.
The Boskone I chaired last year was exactly my 400th con. So I merely
count forward from there to figure out what number I'm at now. Add
(1994) Lunacon, Eastercon, Baycon, Westercon, Readercon, Rivercon,
ConAdian, Armadillocon, Orycon, SMOFcon, Lexicon, and (1995) Boskone,
Lunacon, Eastercon, Baycon, Westercon, 4th St, and Intersection, and I
know I've been to 418.
I told myself than when I hit 500 (about the first third of the 2000s,
now that I'm at my current, slow rate of going to cons), I'll stop
counting, and leave it at 500+, rather than keeping count.
It's easier to keep track of Worldcons, since I haven't missed any since
my first (1971).
>David Dyer-Bennet, proprietor, The Terraboard Minneapolis, MN
Ben
Gary Farber
: What surprises *me* is that people have exact counts on the number of
: conventions they've been to. I've been going to conventions since
: 1972 (Worldcon in LA), but I haven't the foggiest, other than by
: estimating on the back of the envelope, how many I've been to by now.
: (probably somewhere between 65 and 150 :-). I'm pretty sure I've
: averaged three a year, and I'm pretty sure I haven't averaged 8).
Matter of temperment. This is one of those defining personality traits.
I know Patrick and Ben are the kind of detail-oriented people (can you say
"anal-retentve"? <g>) who can be counted upon for this. I haven't seen
Patrick's desk in some time, but I recall decades past when he used to
keep the pens lined up *just* so.
I have only a vague sense of how many cons I've been to, or how many of
much of anything I've done, though I can sit down and do some figuring.
I'm only moved to do that in a rare mood, though. I don't tend to define
things about myself by numbers, though it can be interesting to analyze
figures. Numbers, too. <g>
I've only been to about four cons in the last six years; a far cry from
1976, when I hit eighteen. I'd say offhand, over one hundred, but
definitely under two hundred. Life changes all the time.
I find it so much easier to have enthusiasm for fandom at a distance.
David E Romm
> In <DFq8z...@terrabit.mn.org> d...@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet)
writes:
>
> >What surprises *me* is that people have exact counts on the number of
> >conventions they've been to. I've been going to conventions since
> >1972 (Worldcon in LA), but I haven't the foggiest, other than by
> >estimating on the back of the envelope, how many I've been to by now.
> >(probably somewhere between 65 and 150 :-). I'm pretty sure I've
> >averaged three a year, and I'm pretty sure I haven't averaged 8).
>
> What I have been doing is keeping track of bench marks, and then adding
> appropriately. And, purely by chance, sometimes it works out as an easy
> landmark.
I don't keep exact counts, either. For one thing, I'd have to define
'science fiction convention', which I'm loath to do. For another, I'm
sure I'd miss some along the way.
I like the idea of keeping track of benchmarks, but I'd have to establish
them arbitrarily. There was one time when I was idly giving someone a
neckrub and calculating just how many I'd given over the years. "Well," I
said to myself, "if I averaged one a day for this period, and one a week
from this period... that gets me to 2000!" So I arbitrarily declared that
particular massage to be my 2000th, told my patient this ("I believe it"),
and have since said that I've given 'thousands' of massages in my time.
That particular massage probably wasn't #2000, but it wasn't far off.
Similarly conventions. Depending on just what you wanted to count (are
the MN-STF Pool Parties cons? What about one day gaming events? ST
Conventions Comic conventions?) I could probably come up with an
estimate, but it would be only that.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
FAQ, Distribution Tapes, Top 11 Lists, scripts, sound files, more
Farrell McGovern
>
> What surprises *me* is that people have exact counts on the number of
> conventions they've been to. I've been going to conventions since
> 1972 (Worldcon in LA), but I haven't the foggiest, other than by
> estimating on the back of the envelope, how many I've been to by now.
> (probably somewhere between 65 and 150 :-). I'm pretty sure I've
> averaged three a year, and I'm pretty sure I haven't averaged 8).
I started in 1978, and I stopped counting cons at #40. I've
considered myself FAFIAted since the year Stacey Davies killed herself,
but even so, I still hit about 3 a year, one of which I am involved with
running.
But, I have still not attended a Worldcon..World Fantasy, yes, but
not Worldcon.
ttyl
Farrell
--
The Information Cowpath is strewn with Meadow Muffins...even the best of
us get the Meadow Muffin Blues every now and then...
POEE, ERIS, FNORD, DISCORDIA, KALLISTI, POLYAMORY, R.A.W., LEARY, GOLDEN
APPLE, FIAWOL, APA, TORI AMOS, KATE BUSH, SARAH MCLACHLAN, LOREENA MCKENNITT
Sharon L Sbarsky
David Dyer-Bennet <d...@terrabit.mn.org> wrote:
>
>What surprises *me* is that people have exact counts on the number of
>conventions they've been to. I've been going to conventions since
>1972 (Worldcon in LA), but I haven't the foggiest, other than by
>estimating on the back of the envelope, how many I've been to by now.
>(probably somewhere between 65 and 150 :-). I'm pretty sure I've
>averaged three a year, and I'm pretty sure I haven't averaged 8).
I didn't always keep track. About four years ago, I was driving back from
Philcon with a friend and part of the conversation, just to have a
conversation was determining how many conventions I've been to. We didn't
do a very good job of it (though at that time it was over 100) since
there were several that I had forgotten about. But it got my curiosity
up. I set up a spreadsheet to help me. Since I typically went to the same
conventions every year, this was easy to to. I also added a few misc.
rows for the occasional "other" con. Since then, I merely used the
spreadsheet to keep track for me. :-)
Sharon
Ulrika
writes:
> Probably the Russians have a claim to
>holding the first con, anyway, or the Germans. Or did they hold it
>jointly in Poland? <g>
Close, but wrong preposition...
--Ulrika
Dave Weingart
i could, i suppose, figure out how many cons i've been to, due to my
totaly inability to throw anything away. i've got a box with all my
badges in it somwhere...
--
73 de Dave Weingart KB2CWF "Can you find the Valium?
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Can you bring it soon?
mailto:phyd...@computel.com Lost Johnny's out there
mailto:phyd...@emerald.princeton.edu Baying at the Moon"
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux -- Hawkwind
F A Levy-Haskell
>In article <44l1na$d...@panix2.panix.com>, gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber)
>writes:
>>(can you say "anal-retentive"? <g>)
>So far my candidate for most anal fan is still Peter Edick ....
I'd pretty much have to agree with that. If not the =most=, then certainly
right up there.
But would you say that he's also anal-retentive?
:q!
--
Fred A. Levy Haskell | Jerry Garcia 1942-1995
fa...@maroon.tc.umn.edu | "When there were no strings to play
| You played to me" --Robert Hunter
Jim Trash
> 1997 (Jim??)?
Not even remotely tempted Steve.
60 years seems a sort of betwixt and between anniversary and you
had the celebration 10 years ago. It seems just plain greedy to
have another one now.
Tell you what, I'll volunteer for the 75th anniversary in 2012
or maybe the hundredth in 2037.
Regards Jim (goodness, I've just realised I'll be 73 in 2037
so maybe that sign off should be, Regards, Jim the Optimistic)
--
Jim Trash
Dr Gafia
Farber) writes:
>Steve Glover (kur...@tardis.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
>: Gary Farber <gfa...@panix.com> wrote:
>: >Steve Glover (kur...@tardis.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
>: >: Um. That's neat, considering the first ever con was in February of
>: >: 1937. And not in the f-NAC anyway ;-)
>: >I feel no personal stake in this.
>: [rest snipped 'cos of silly newsreader]
>: Me neither -- just mixing things (or trying to ;-)) for the benefit of
>: those who missed the thread last time round...
>Jeez, you'd think we could at least *fake* a good fight about this, if we
>weren't such wimps. Oh, well.
I couldn't get a decent rise out of Rob, either; I suppose that is
possibly the thread being mentioned above. I mean, he would just
state his opinion and I'd say why I didn't agree with it and he'd say
my comments were interesting but had not changed his mind. Eventually
I had to come clean and admit it didn't matter to me, either, I was
just trying to fake a good fight.
But in the interests of historical accuracy, I'm still wondering how
we are supposed to present/refer to that thing that was attended by
major East Coast US fans in Philadelphia, from which the present
annual Phillycon dates itself, which not only called itself a
convention but initiated planning for what would become the first
world convention in New York the following year. Do we tell the
members of PSFS that their first Phillycon doesn't really count
because people who were in diapers and/or not even born when that
convention was held have decided it does not fit THEIR definition of
an sf convention?
Honest, I'm trying NOT to argue the case anymore, I'm willing to
accept the historical revisionism. I just wonder how to treat that,
ah, whatever it was in Philadelphia that remains a matter of
historical fact. It actually fits the dictionary definition of
"convention", so was it a "convention" that was not really an "sf
convention"? But since it was attended only by sf fans, maybe it
would be better to say that it was an sf conclave that declared itself
to be an sf convention but really wasn't because of criteria developed
after the fact?
Any ideas? Anyone?
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Gary Farber
: historical fact. It actually fits the dictionary definition of
: convention"? But since it was attended only by sf fans, maybe it
: would be better to say that it was an sf conclave that declared itself
: to be an sf convention but really wasn't because of criteria developed
: after the fact?
: Any ideas? Anyone?
Without having studied the matter in Great Depth, I'd say it was an sf
con. I'd say the one in Leeds was more formal, and larger. I'd say for
it to be a matter of National Pride to anyone seems silly to me, but
because I feel that way, I can't see why I should argue about it, or care
much.
Gary Farber
: The one
: in Philadelphia was held in someone's home and they simply declared
: themselves to be a convention on the spot by formal resolution.
For what it's worth, Moskowitz in THE IMMORTAL STORM says "Philadelphia
was decided upon, chiefly because Wolheim had hit upon the novel idea of
meeting with out-of-town fans and thereby calling the affair a science
fiction convention. Intrigued with this plans, members made hurried
arrangements."
How "hurried" is an interesting question I don't have the answer to, and
it would be useful to research this while participants are still with us.
Attendees at Philcon in November are encouraged to ask about this if Ozzie
Train, Milton Rothman, Bob Madle, SaM, or others are there. Whether they
were aware of the upcoming Leeds convention and that factored in their
plans is equally important.
As I said, I couldn't care less who was first in terms of having a
preference. British fandom has done many things far better than American
fandom.
David G. Bell
all agree that the UK had the first con committee?
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Never criticise a farmer with your mouth full.
Gary Farber
: Perhaps, even if Philadelphia did have the first SF convention, we can
: all agree that the UK had the first con committee?
Sure, you can get credit for first bureaucracy. ;-)
(If you read THE IMMORTAL STORM, I think you might concede that Americans
win hands down for Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Petty
Feuds, though.)
Alison Scott
> (If you read THE IMMORTAL STORM, I think you might concede that Americans
> win hands down for Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Petty
> Feuds, though.)
No, truly, I have to say that the Swedes are the undisputed masters
in this area. No question.
--
Alison Scott ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
Copyright Alison Scott, 1995. All rights retained.
David E Romm
> In article: <454of1$6...@panix2.panix.com> gfa...@panix.com (Gary
Farber) writes:
>
> > (If you read THE IMMORTAL STORM, I think you might concede that Americans
> > win hands down for Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Petty
> > Feuds, though.)
>
> No, truly, I have to say that the Swedes are the undisputed masters
> in this area. No question.
Oh goody! Can we argue about this some more?
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"Oh! It's the Holiday Rat! He's brought us a gift from the Rodent King."
-- Aladdin
Gary Farber
: gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber) writes:
: > (If you read THE IMMORTAL STORM, I think you might concede that Americans
: > win hands down for Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Petty
: > Feuds, though.)
: No, truly, I have to say that the Swedes are the undisputed masters
: in this area. No question.
Hmm, forgot them, didn't I? Well, if you'll allow it's only some of
them, and exclude others such as John-Henri Holmberg, Per Insulander
(pretty gafia, I know), than I'll agree that we might need to surrender
the title to CENSORED. 8-)
I rather think of some of them as being rather like that Original Star
Trek episode where the entire planet's culture was changed by finding the
one book on "History of Chicago Gangs of the Twenties."
Dr Gafia
writes:
>In article <44so3d$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, drg...@aol.com (Dr Gafia)
>writes:
>
>>I couldn't get a decent rise out of Rob, either;
>
>Maybe you could borrow those black lace pyjamas of Martin's?
>
>--Ulrika
Black lace? Hmm. Maybe I could be trying them on, instead
of trying your patience...
--rich brown
Dr Gafia
writes:
>As I said, I couldn't care less who was first in terms of having a
>preference. British fandom has done many things far better than American
>fandom.
What you said.
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Dr Gafia
<db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Perhaps, even if Philadelphia did have the first SF convention, we
>can all agree that the UK had the first con committee?
At the very least, certainly.
Actually, I haven't got anything against a little revising of history
as we go along, as with distance we may get a better perspective than
those who may have been too close to the forest to see the trees.
E.g., I think Fancy II's "take" on 7th Fandom was extreme; I'm writing
an article (for either HABAKKUK or MIMOSA) in which I hope to make the
case.
The problem is that once something like this is done, it becomes
easier to do, and it thereby becomes easier to do it to excess. The
rationale behind Leeds being the "real" first convention is that the
Philadelphia event was not a "real" convention by criteria established
by people who were not born or were in diapers when either of those
events took place regarding what is and is not a real sf convention.
As it only knocks one convention, and not a world convention, out of
consideration, there's little if any harm done. So we say that Philly
didn't have a convention committee planning the event and Leeds did,
and that's a distinction between a "real" sf convention and a not-
"real" sf convention. But what's to keep some later folks from coming
along and deciding that, in order to be consider a "real" convention,
it has to have an art show? We'd have to wipe out all the worldcons
before Detention (1959), I think...
--rich brown
BenZ7
time, on the theory that we'll get more accurate information by getting
closer to the primary sources on this, I'll quote from the 1944 Fancy I,
produced less than a decade after the actual events. The definition of a
Convention is: "A large fan gathering, tho formerly used of any fan
gathering. Thus the Philly event met the definition of a SF Convention as
defined by fandom at the time and in the reference works of the time.
Fancy I goes on to note that the "first Science-Fiction Convention was at
Philadelphia in 1936, when the NYB-ISA visited the Philadelphia branch.
It was maked by horseplay and comeraderie."
In 1974 I attended the third Acon. The attendence at this con was barely
more than that 1936 event. (It was the 3rd Acon only because the small
attendance at each con foiled the committee's original plan to increment
it annually as Acon, Bcon, Ccon, etc. The 3rd one was still Acon because
they hadn't used up the Acon badges yet.) So, if size is the key to
whether an event is a convention or not, then these nice little
conventions weren't.
--BenZ
Robert Sneddon
db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk "David G. Bell" writes:
> Perhaps, even if Philadelphia did have the first SF convention, we can
> all agree that the UK had the first con committee?
>
The last Leeds convention I attended didn't have a committee - well
it had one before it started. On the day there was only Barry Traish
left - all the others had resigned. Roger Zelazny was GOH, as I recall.
D. West was collecting money for TAFF with friendly games of chance
on the pool table (or so it was claimed...) Jack Cohen had his car
stolen, and he lost a ****load of slides, cameras etc.
--
Robert Sneddon GM8YWD
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
"I'm your biggest fan, Miss Yuri... | Kei 'n' Yuricon '41
Well, the most heavily armed anyway" - | "You'll laugh, you'll cry,
Attack gunship "Kiss your ass goodbye" | "you'll pay big bucks and die"
/"Dirty Pair - Fatal but not Serious"/ | Kei 'n' Yuricon '41
Ulrika O'Brien
>Black lace? Hmm. Maybe I could be trying them on, instead
>of trying your patience...
Oh, wouldn't want to deprive you of your true calling or
anything. <g>
--
On the other hand, the examined life isn't very lucrative.
Ulrika O'Brien * Philosopher without Portfolio * ulr...@aol.com
Steve Glover
Robert Sneddon <no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The last Leeds convention I attended didn't have a committee - well
>it had one before it started. On the day there was only Barry Traish
>left - all the others had resigned. Roger Zelazny was GOH, as I recall.
>D. West was collecting money for TAFF with friendly games of chance
>on the pool table (or so it was claimed...) Jack Cohen had his car
>stolen, and he lost a ****load of slides, cameras etc.
It was a damn' good con, notwithstanding. Even the bits I don't remember.
Steve, who's fairly sure D West wasn't there...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soliciting for November issue of Etranger: topics include morality in
works of people called Smith or about people called Smith; net stuff of likely
interest to SF fans, art... Deadline 15-OCT-1995: kur...@tardis.ed.ac.uk
David E Romm
> David E Romm (ro...@winternet.com) wrote:
>
> : I love it. When they run out of badges, are they going to increment the
> : name?
>
> I do have fond memories of "AKon" (or was it "A-Kon"?), which had maybe
> 40-50 people around a motel pool in 1975 in Connecticut; I don't quite
> recall which small town it was near. But that was where I met *Brad
> Parks*. We were 16.
Yeow! I remember that con, I think. IIRC, I first met Brad on the way to
the con. We did a one-shot, "Plenapotentiary Plethora (spelled wrong)" or
somesuch, then hitchhiked up I-84 from my parent's house in Middletown NY
to the con in Conn.
> It was a pure relaxacon: just fans and a pool. An underrated concept.
And yet another one-shot. Ah, those were fun times.
> It was fairly near in time (at this distance) to Crotoncon, actually. 8-)
We need Frank Balazs on-line. Now.
--
"Do you think you've learned from your mistakes?"
"Yes. I'm sure I could repeat them exactly."
-- Peter Cook and Dudley Moore
David E Romm
> In 1974 I attended the third Acon. The attendence at this con was barely
> more than that 1936 event. (It was the 3rd Acon only because the small
> attendance at each con foiled the committee's original plan to increment
> it annually as Acon, Bcon, Ccon, etc. The 3rd one was still Acon because
> they hadn't used up the Acon badges yet.) So, if size is the key to
> whether an event is a convention or not, then these nice little
> conventions weren't.
I love it. When they run out of badges, are they going to increment the name?
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"Love is like a gerbil. It's a lot of fun, but it leaves pellets everywhere."
-- Duckman
David G. Bell
no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk "Robert Sneddon" writes:
> The last Leeds convention I attended didn't have a committee - well
> it had one before it started. On the day there was only Barry Traish
> left - all the others had resigned. Roger Zelazny was GOH, as I recall.
> D. West was collecting money for TAFF with friendly games of chance
> on the pool table (or so it was claimed...)
My brother is a statistician. He has explained to me just how friendly
some of these games of chance can be.
And, whatever else you do, don't do one of those fancy riffle-shuffles
at a whist drive...
MR K P SCHUPKE
>In article <813263...@ibfs.demon.co.uk>,
>Robert Sneddon <no...@ibfs.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>it had one before it started. On the day there was only Barry Traish
>>left - all the others had resigned. Roger Zelazny was GOH, as I recall.
>>D. West was collecting money for TAFF with friendly games of chance
>>stolen, and he lost a ****load of slides, cameras etc.
>
>It was a damn' good con, notwithstanding. Even the bits I don't remember.
>
>Steve, who's fairly sure D West wasn't there...
Oh, yes he was! He was sitting next to Ian Sorenson. I went up to Ian
(who I thought was some omnipotent being of fanzines) and handed him a
copy of my first ever fanzine (thin and wispy like these things tend to
be). Ian turned to D and said "See? *Good* fan art." or some such thing.
In a sarcastic manner, of course.
I didn't know well enough to give D a copy of my zine.
Bug
Strangely enough, writing something about D. West for Steve's Etranger...
Gary Farber
: Yes, that's right, it was AKon. The couple running it was Bruce and ????
: Newman? Newhouse? something like that. In 74 & 75 I drove most of the
: fans at WBAI there in my mustang. The con was great for pool fun, small
: parties and movies.
Bruce and Flo Newrock, who were still about last I looked a few years
ago. I think maybe the Kagans were there as well, as well as others I
remember only vaguely and yet others I remember well. Freund is still
doing "Hour of the Wolf" every Saturday morning from 5-7 a.m., y'know,
though he doesn't seem to post to Usenet for some reason.
: My, were we ever that young?
"We were so much older then, we're younger than that now."
Having had a haircut this week, I'm suddenly acutely aware of my thinning
hair. People are going to stop saying "you look like Richard Dreyfuss,"
and start thinking Anthony Edwards soon. <g>
BenZ7
>
>I do have fond memories of "AKon" (or was it "A-Kon"?), which had maybe
>40-50 people around a motel pool in 1975 in Connecticut; I don't quite
>recall which small town it was near. But that was where I met *Brad
>Parks*. We were 16.
Yes, that's right, it was AKon. The couple running it was Bruce and ????
Newman? Newhouse? something like that. In 74 & 75 I drove most of the
fans at WBAI there in my mustang. The con was great for pool fun, small
parties and movies.
My, were we ever that young?
--BenZ
David E Romm
> Dr Gafia (drg...@aol.com) advises on Fansmanship:
> <smeeped>
> This ploy may also be modified to comment on the staples or other
> production variants. A modern update might be ". . . good toner."
An avante guarde variant is, "...ah, san serif."
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
FAQ, Distribution Tapes, Top 11 Lists, scripts, sound files, more
Dr Gafia
<b...@ee.ic.ac.uk> writes:
>...I went up to Ian (who I thought was some omnipotent being of
>fanzines) and handed him a copy of my first ever fanzine (thin and
>wispy like these things tend to be). Ian turned to D [West] and said
>"See? *Good* fan art." or some such thing. In a sarcastic manner, of
>course.
If you are not misremembering, then the Deadly Indirect Glance Ploy
has indeed fallen on hard times. It is sad to hear.
In true Fansmanship--based on S. Potter's Oneupsmanship, honed to a
fine point in a series of lectures given by Bob Shaw, and designed to
rid fandom of that disgusting good fellowship with which it so
frequently abounds--the Deadly Indirect Glance ploy really begged to
have been utilized at this point. Ian, apparently, if what you say of
him is true here, simply forgot his groundwork. In that regard, one
should always remember the inspiring words of the immortal S.
Dimworthy (the devisor of Dimworthy's Gambit), who said (and I quote):
*I _never_ forget my groundwork*
Anyway, in the hands of an experience Fansman, this would have gone,
essentially, as follows:
Relatively new fan publisher hands Fansman a page from his fanzine, or
perhaps the ENTIRE fanzine, and says something on the order of, "What
do you think of THAT?"
It is important that everything that is done in this ploy be done with
a complete absence of noticeable emotion; a "poker" face is absolutely
essential. In fact, it is required.
The Fansman draws him or herself up to his or her full height (even if
that is only four feet, two inches) and extends the hand holding the
page or fanzine out, so that the fanzine or page is roughly 14 inches
from his or her eyes. The fanzine or page should be held at an
ANGLE, so that even though the Fansman is looking at it, s/he is in
fact looking at it indirectly (thus, the name of the ploy). There is
considerable controversy, even at this late date, over whether the
angle at which the fanzine is held should be 35 degrees, 45 degrees,
or even 55 degrees. (I'm happy to report that those who attempt to
make a case for holding the fanzine or page at a 90 degree angle, so
that one is [in effect] looking at the fanzine or page edge-on, are
almost universally condemned and are generally regarded as a pack of
loonies.) With the passage of at least 30, but not more than 60,
seconds the Fansman is permitted a brief intake of breath. Expression
blank, this breath is held for at least another 60 seconds, during
which the Fansman's only movement is a minute but noticeable
"twitching" in a back-and-forth movement of the thumb which holds the
fanzine or page and the gradual relaxation of all other fingers used
to hold the fanzine with the exception of the forefinger. The Fansman
then lets out the breath, lets go of the fanzine or page (allowing it
to flutter to the floor) while saying simultaneously, "Good paper!"
It is estimated that this will, across psychological types, devastate
roughly 94.3 percent of all new fan-eds.
--rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Dr Gafia
writes:
>.... In 74 & 75 I drove most of the
>fans at WBAI [to the convention] in my mustang.
WBAI? The NYC Pacifica radio station?
--rich brown
Anglemark.J
Romm (ro...@winternet.com) wrote:
:In article <202653...@fuggles.demon.co.uk>, Ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
wrote:
:
:> In article: <454of1$6...@panix2.panix.com> gfa...@panix.com (Gary
:Farber) writes:
:>
:> > (If you read THE IMMORTAL STORM, I think you might concede that
Americans
:> > win hands down for Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending
Petty
:> > Feuds, though.)
:>
:> No, truly, I have to say that the Swedes are the undisputed masters
:> in this area. No question.
:
:Oh goody! Can we argue about this some more?
Eh, I beg to point out that the Swedish feuds over the last ten years have
more or less obliterated Swedish fandom. I am willing to vote for Sweden
for "Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Feuds", but not
"Petty". There is nothing "Petty" about two or three people feuding so
long and so much that not only do 150 fans wish they were gafiated, they
actually *gafiate*! Or rather stop issuing fanzines, arrange and go to
cons. People still meet, but there is very little fandom to talk of.
fijagh,
Johan
********************************************************************
Johan Anglemark /"There is no condition of human misery
Uppsala, Sweden / which cannot be made infinitely worse
(angle...@eworld.com) / by the arrival of a policeman."--B. Behan
********************************************************************
Gary Farber
: Eh, I beg to point out that the Swedish feuds over the last ten years have
: more or less obliterated Swedish fandom. I am willing to vote for Sweden
: for "Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Feuds", but not
: "Petty". There is nothing "Petty" about two or three people feuding so
: long and so much that not only do 150 fans wish they were gafiated, they
: actually *gafiate*! Or rather stop issuing fanzines, arrange and go to
: cons. People still meet, but there is very little fandom to talk of.
Sad to hear. Some people can be hard to ignore, but it may be best to
try.
P Nielsen Hayden
>Eh, I beg to point out that the Swedish feuds over the last ten years have
>more or less obliterated Swedish fandom. I am willing to vote for Sweden
>for "Most Amazingly Inane and Moronic Never-Ending Feuds", but not
>"Petty". There is nothing "Petty" about two or three people feuding so
>long and so much that not only do 150 fans wish they were gafiated, they
>actually *gafiate*! Or rather stop issuing fanzines, arrange and go to
>cons. People still meet, but there is very little fandom to talk of.
That's incredibly sad. And you know, you're right, it isn't "petty."
Terrible, certainly, but not petty.
It's always easy to condescend to someone else's feuds.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@tor.com : opinions mine
http://www.panix.com/~pnh : http://www.tor.com
Gary Farber
: Yes, rich. The listener sponsored, non-commercial radio station. As a
: matter of fact, I first found out about fandom from Jim Freund and Margo
: Adler's HOUR OF THE WOLF science fiction radio program on WBAI. Through
: Jim I met the likes of Gary Farber, Jerry Kauffman, Stu Shiffman, Jon
: Singer and others. He has a lot to answer for, that Freund guy.
Speaking of Stu Shiffman, I wish we could convince him to come out of
hiding from Genie and into the larger world of us fab folk. What other
fans are hiding there? Cowards!
By the way, Anna Vargo will be taking her Engineer-in-Training license
exam in two weeks. Freund has his own Web site, but I keep neglecting to
write down the address since I'm still working with my challenged shell.
MIMOSA arrived yesterday; thanks, Ben.
P Nielsen Hayden
>Speaking of Stu Shiffman, I wish we could convince him to come out of
>hiding from Genie and into the larger world of us fab folk. What other
>fans are hiding there? Cowards!
Actually, I haven't seen Stu on GEnie in quite a while. Although he could
be posting in topics I don't frequent. The SFRTs are huge.
>Freund has his own Web site, but I keep neglecting to
>write down the address since I'm still working with my challenged shell.
http://www.interport.net/~jfreund/
Ulrika
writes:
>
>Speaking of Stu Shiffman, I wish we could convince him to come out of
>hiding from Genie and into the larger world of us fab folk. What other
>fans are hiding there? Cowards!
Well, Gary, inexplicably enough, some fans do actually prefer GEnie to
internet Usegroups. Not unlike those heretics who prefer nova to lox, I
suppose...
--Ulrika
Gary Farber
: Well, Gary, inexplicably enough, some fans do actually prefer GEnie to
: internet Usegroups. Not unlike those heretics who prefer nova to lox, I
: suppose...
Interesting analogy. You mean that service you have pay hourly rates on,
and is limited strictly to those who pay to be "members" is blander,
duller, yet has a certain popularity with those who don't know any better
and don't care about authenticity? <grin>
Ulrika O'Brien
>True enough. It's like hiding in an apa and not the real world of >fanzines...
<g> when you say that, Stranger.
Gary Farber
: I'm getting old and out of practice, not having been to a Worldcon in
: a while, but I feel certain that Fansmanship is still an art form
: which has some usefulness there. I'd love to be updated on them and
: hear about the ploys <snippy-wippy>
Nice. . . post. Lots of. . . ASCII.
Impressive capitalization for emphasis.
Don't worry, rich. I'm *sure* everyone reads all your long posts. :-)
:-) :-)
Gary Farber
: I got my first Locus at Westercon 28 (7/75). That leaves Tony Lewis's
: ASF ANAlog con listings, but I don't have time at the moment. Too bad I
: haven't had time to fill my con list (in WP now, to be a database
: someday) with all the data I've got sitting around in zines and etc.
Don't waste time looking in Analog. It was a small relaxacon and
publicizing it there would have been Wrong.
: What month was it? Can you think of any fans who might have written
: about it in a fanzine? I don't have Parks, yet, assuming he sent Gil
: something, but I checked Cvetko's Diehards, I don't think Tony was
: there (no mention I can find).
Uh, summer. No, Tony wasn't there. If you're so fascinated, I do have
the one-shot, fairly damn embarrassing at that, SEMI-PRECIOUS FROGS, in a
box somewhere. You are welcome to come organize my collection. :-)
I suspect it was probably also mentioned in Apa-Q the then Fanoclast apa
(before it escaped and turned feral), and possibly a couple of other
apas. Truth told, I never before exactly thought of it as a Milestone in
Fanhistory, although I suppose if you look at it with the attitude that
some of us are now Too Dreadfully Important For Words, you could convince
someone of that. If you hit them on the head with a hammer, first.
Mary Hartery
that long ago......
It makes ME feel old to think my first convention, Noreascon in 1971,
when my girlfriend Debbie and I got into the con by pretending to work
for our school newspaper, and Stu Brownstein (is he still around?) got us
badges for the day. We snuck in that Sunday night to see the Hugo
Awards, and I (at least) have been hooked ever since.
Then there were the Trekcons in NY--the Five Year Mission, and
Boskones...and....
Well, I REALLY am feeling old right about now.
Oh--I don't know if it will help regarding AKon (which I unfortunately
don't remember,) but Shirley Maiewski might remember something about it.
She's always kept great records.
P Nielsen Hayden
>I've been hearing raves about GEnie for a while but the time I tried it,
>I got so frustrated by the interface that I gave up in disgust, and I'm
>not exactly a computer novice. Any progress on this front for Macintosh?
>Anyone have any hints about getting around that might convince me to try
>it again?
GEnie's idea of a "front end" appears to be to take their scrolling-text,
command-line interface and put it into a window. Front end for the Mac?
That's a good one; tell us another. However, in all honesty, you can do
GEnie in its native text form by mastering about eight commands. It looks
scarier than it is.
P Nielsen Hayden
>1975!!!??? It astounds me to read people remininscing about conventions
>that long ago......
Many things astound me, but not the idea that fans reminisce about long-ago
cons. Fans were very much into their own history when I came into fandom
twenty years ago and they still are; this is actually one of the few areas
in which life has proceeded as expected...
Gary Farber
: I was particularly interested in your comment, David, about
: "hiding in an apa". Guess things are different over here,
: but I've found that apas are open to everyone (course, it
: may take a little bit of digging to find out about them
: or who the contact is) whereas who gets the fanzine is
: controlled totally by whoever edits it.
Disclaimer: apas are fine and wonderful beasts. I've been in, I dunno,
at least twenty of them, however briefly, and have been an OE. Etc.,
etc.
But: almost all apas are strictly limited to a fixed number of members,
be it 30 or 65. Rare indeed are those that are just handed out to all
who request.
Unlike most fanzines. There are exceptions on both sides. But 85% of
all fanzines are available for the asking, and about 15% of apas are
(without a long wait, at least, sometimes for years).
Or do most British apas not have membership limits and waitlists? I'm
certainly out of date.
Dr Gafia
<ulr...@aol.com> writes:
>gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber) wrote:
>
>>Interesting analogy. You mean that service you have pay hourly
>>rates on, and is limited strictly to those who pay to be "members"
>>is blander, duller, yet has a certain popularity with those who
>>don't know any better and don't care about authenticity? <grin>
>
>Ah, something like that. I believe I meant something more
>like chacun a son goo.
Or possibly even "illigitium non carborundum"?
--rich brown
jenny....@ukonline.co.uk
"hiding in an apa". Guess things are different over here,
but I've found that apas are open to everyone (course, it
may take a little bit of digging to find out about them
or who the contact is) whereas who gets the fanzine is
controlled totally by whoever edits it.
Just a thought ...
alyson l abramowitz
>
> fandom. I haven't seen him in years. He might pop up in the Bay Area
> from time to time.
Stu is active in Bay Area fandom and is seen with regularity at
the south bay group.
We havn't seen you in years, Seth.
Best,
Alyson
Seth Breidbart
Dr Gafia <drg...@aol.com> gives his version of a one-liner:
>In article <45urlq$1...@panix2.panix.com>, gfa...@panix.com (Gary
>Farber) writes:
>>Nice. . . post. Lots of. . . ASCII.
>>Impressive capitalization for emphasis.
>>Don't worry, rich. I'm *sure* everyone reads all your long posts.
>>:-) :-) :-)
>
>Actually, I've gotten back some nice egoboo on the specific post in
>question, so it was worth the effort even if I knew I’d already lost
>Patrick by the time I was four lines in.
>And from time to time, you'll note, I DO write the occasional one-
>liner.
Such as this one? :-)
>So's not to exceed anyone's attention span. <g>
Seth
David E Romm
> jenny....@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
> : I was particularly interested in your comment, David, about
> Disclaimer: apas are fine and wonderful beasts. I've been in, I dunno,
> at least twenty of them, however briefly, and have been an OE. Etc.,
> etc.
>
> But: almost all apas are strictly limited to a fixed number of members,
> be it 30 or 65. Rare indeed are those that are just handed out to all
> who request.
>
> Unlike most fanzines. There are exceptions on both sides. But 85% of
> all fanzines are available for the asking, and about 15% of apas are
> (without a long wait, at least, sometimes for years).
Right.
First, Jenny, let me say that I was kidding about 'hiding in an apa'. Or
half kidding, anyway. It's easy to get involved in an apa, especially a
frequent apa, to the exclusion of other forms of fanac. That happens
around here a lot with Minneapa.
Still, apas are a good way to meet similar-minded fans. They are the
Usenet groups of their time. Indeed, fandom's only true invention is the
mailing comment, to which Usenet is heir.
I predict (he says waving his hands expansively) that apas will decrease
in number and frequency because of on-line groups, but that fanzines will
not be as effected.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"It's my duty to help the fate impaired."
-- Mad About You
Martin Schafer
>
>I do have fond memories of "AKon" (or was it "A-Kon"?), which had maybe
>40-50 people around a motel pool in 1975 in Connecticut; I don't quite
>recall which small town it was near. But that was where I met *Brad
>Parks*. We were 16.
>
>
>It was fairly near in time (at this distance) to Crotoncon, actually. 8-)
>
I was there too, at age 17 (actually, I don't rmember what time of year
it was, Imight have been 18). Ibelieve the town was Weathersfield.
Martin
Dr Gafia
>1975!!!??? It astounds me to read people remininscing about conventions
>that long ago......
>
>It makes ME feel old to think my first convention, Noreascon in 1971,
>when my girlfriend Debbie and I got into the con by pretending to work
>for our school newspaper, and Stu Brownstein (is he still around?) got us
>badges for the day.
I empathize. Believe me, I empathize.
--rich brown
David E Romm
Schafer) wrote:
Yeow! I'd forgotten that you were there also, since I didn't know you at
the time. That means maybe 8% of the con (Martin, Gary and me), are still
around to talk about it in On Line Fandom. Bruce and Flo Newrock knew not
what they wrought.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"The secret of eternal youth is arrested development."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Ulrika
>Unlike the rest of our lives, is that it?
>
>
Boy, I wish I could figure out what this is in response to...
--Ulrika
David E Romm
I think you've just answered your own question.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"The time for action is past! Now is the time for senseless bickering!"
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
Seth Breidbart
David E Romm <ro...@winternet.com> wrote:
>In article <DGpHt...@network.com>, sch...@walleye.network.com (Martin
>Schafer) wrote:
>> In article <45e18c$q...@panix2.panix.com> gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber)
>writes:
>> >I do have fond memories of "AKon" (or was it "A-Kon"?), which had maybe
>> >40-50 people around a motel pool in 1975 in Connecticut; I don't quite
>> >recall which small town it was near. But that was where I met *Brad
>> >Parks*. We were 16.
>> >It was a pure relaxacon: just fans and a pool. An underrated concept.
>> >It was fairly near in time (at this distance) to Crotoncon, actually. 8-)
>> I was there too, at age 17 (actually, I don't rmember what time of year
>> it was, Imight have been 18). Ibelieve the town was Weathersfield.
>Yeow! I'd forgotten that you were there also, since I didn't know you at
>the time. That means maybe 8% of the con (Martin, Gary and me), are still
>around to talk about it in On Line Fandom. Bruce and Flo Newrock knew not
>what they wrought.
More than that; I was there too, I think. (I know I was at at least
one AKon; I was the old guy there, at 21.)
Seth
David E Romm
Romm at a con in 1975]
In article <46959s$e...@panix2.panix.com>, gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber) wrote:
> Seth Breidbart (se...@panix.com) wrote:
> : More than that; I was there too, I think. (I know I was at at least
> : one AKon; I was the old guy there, at 21.)
>
> They're probably not reading this unless it is called to their attention,
> but Jerry Kaufman was there, as was Moshe Feder and Anna Vargo (she may
> still have been Elizabeth Willis, actually). So was Hope Leibowitz. I
> *think* Lise Eisenberg and probably Karina Girsdansky (they were joined at
> the hip back then) were there, though I can't swear to it right now. I
> don't *think* Suzle was there, though, but she can shoot me if I'm
> mistaken. If I hadn't gotten up so early this morning, I might be able to
> further recall who else was there that I knew then (which didn't include
> Martin Schaefer, hey!). Gary Tesser and Hank Davis, maybe? Porter,
> maybe? Elliot Shorter, maybe?
>
> Certainly a fair number of the con. I think I previously suggested Janet
> and Ricky Kagan. There were many of the usual others.
Yeow! Talk about the graying of fandom! No wonder fandom seems to be
getting older. None of us former youngun's will go away.
In retrospect, AKon was the first of the 'faannish' conventions that I
have since associated with Autoclave, Corflu, Mpls fallcons and the like.
Small, but intense. Lots of fanzine fans gathering. Few neos and the
fringefans were interesting. Most of the fans are still around,
someplace.
There were undoubtedly others in this tradition, but this was the first I
went to. If only it hadn't taken nine hours to hitchhike to...
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." -- Bruce Cockburn
Gary Farber
: In retrospect, AKon was the first of the 'faannish' conventions that I
: have since associated with Autoclave, Corflu, Mpls fallcons and the like.
: Small, but intense. Lots of fanzine fans gathering. Few neos and the
: fringefans were interesting. Most of the fans are still around,
: someplace.
No, I think you have it reversed, Dave. Akon was one of the *last* of the
small cons where it was taken for granted that almost everyone was a fan.
It was just before it became necessary to do this *consciously*.
I wouldn't pick Akon specifically, because this was going on all over,
but in retrospect, the phenomenon is damn significant in fanhistory.
--
-- Gary Farber Brooklyn,
gfa...@panix.com New York City
Chris Croughton
writes:
>I was particularly interested in your comment, David, about
>"hiding in an apa". Guess things are different over here,
>but I've found that apas are open to everyone (course, it
>may take a little bit of digging to find out about them
>or who the contact is) whereas who gets the fanzine is
>controlled totally by whoever edits it.
I think it may have been sarcasm. Or satire. Or one of those words.
Anyway, not to be taken seriously.
On the other hand, although APAs (apae?) are "open to everyone" in
theory, they aren't generally distributed outside the small group of
participants. There aren't a noticable number of 'lurkers' as there are
on UseNet (and on UseNet you don't even know who the lurkers are, at
least on a BBS like CIX, CompuServe etc., you can generally do a "list
participants" or equivalent). It is more 'cosy' and more like an APA
where you can say things knowing who the other people are (and whether
they'll be offended by certain things or not).
Just my opinion, of course (and an attempt to get the message rate up,
as usual - keeping the word rate up I leave to rich)...
***********************************************************************
* ch...@keris.demon.co.uk * *
* chr...@cix.compulink.co.uk * FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life) *
* 10001...@compuserve.com * *
***********************************************************************
Arthur Hlavaty
: On the other hand, although APAs (apae?) are "open to everyone" in
: theory, they aren't generally distributed outside the small group of
: participants. There aren't a noticable number of 'lurkers' as there are
: on UseNet (and on UseNet you don't even know who the lurkers are, at
: least on a BBS like CIX, CompuServe etc., you can generally do a "list
: participants" or equivalent). It is more 'cosy' and more like an APA
: where you can say things knowing who the other people are (and whether
: they'll be offended by certain things or not).
There have been a number of "secret," "private," etc., apas. Printing up
25 copies of something, distributing them, and expecting it to remain
secret has always struck me as an exercise in optimism.
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius In Wile E. We Trust
\\\ E-zine available on request. ///
Gary Farber
: There have been a number of "secret," "private," etc., apas. Printing up
: 25 copies of something, distributing them, and expecting it to remain
: secret has always struck me as an exercise in optimism.
No kidding. Immensely naive, at best. I have no problem with private
apas in the sense of choosing whom you wish to hang out with -- such as
OASIS -- and I have no problem with apas where people are *encouraged*
and *requested* to try to keep them "confidential," but I think anyone
who writes for such, or writes *anything*, and is confident that no one
else will see it, well, as you allude, they're more optimist than I am.
And I've read enough copies of other people's "secret" apas to have some
experience.
Jim Freund
>but Jerry Kaufman was there, as was Moshe Feder and Anna Vargo (she may
>still have been Elizabeth Willis, actually). So was Hope Leibowitz. I
>*think* Lise Eisenberg and probably Karina Girsdansky...
Me too! I think it may be for lack of those kind of relaxacons that I
eventually drifted into gafiation. I seem to recall Mal Worob and his
friend Renee being at one or two. Do you recall how many Akons there
were?
Jim
http://www.users.interport.net/~jfreund
Hyphenate
>>that long ago......
>Many things astound me, but not the idea that fans reminisce about
long-ago
>cons. Fans were very much into their own history when I came into fandom
>twenty years ago and they still are; this is actually one of the few
areas
>in which life has proceeded as expected...
My reply was:
>Unlike the rest of our lives, is that it?
Simple, huh?
________________________________________
RebelCon in '96: Join the
Rebelution!
Call 1-800-99REBEL now for
information!
We'll see YOU at the Taunton (Massachusetts)
Holiday Inn! July 5-7,
1996: A revolutionary new convention idea!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Seth Breidbart
Dr Gafia <drg...@aol.com> wrote:
>Right. You find yourself at a party, look up and ask, "Ah, hmm, by
>the way, what city are we in?"
>
>And someone invariably comes back with, "Does it matter?"
Actually, it does.
At least, when you're choosing the restaurant to eat dinner at.
Seth
Ulrika
(Hyphenate) writes:
>
>Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@tor.com wrote in reply to:
>>>1975!!!??? It astounds me to read people remininscing about
conventions
>
>>>that long ago......
>
>>Many things astound me, but not the idea that fans reminisce about
>long-ago
>>cons. Fans were very much into their own history when I came into
fandom
>>twenty years ago and they still are; this is actually one of the few
>areas
>>in which life has proceeded as expected...
>
>My reply was:
>
>>Unlike the rest of our lives, is that it?
>
>Simple, huh?
Yep, once you actually quote what message in the thread
you are replying to, and indicate what part of that message
in particular you are responding to, then the rest of us
can follow it all with laser-like precision.
Um, that was my point. Or rather that if you don't, we can't...
--Ulrika
Gary Farber
: Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@tor.com wrote in reply to:
: >>that long ago......
: >Many things astound me, but not the idea that fans reminisce about
: >long-ago cons. Fans were very much into their own history when I came
: >into fandom twenty years ago and they still are; this is actually one of
: >the few areas in which life has proceeded as expected...
: My reply was:
: >Unlike the rest of our lives, is that it?
: Simple, huh?
Hmm. I guess not. What's simple? (I fixed your quotes, by the way. You
had Patrick's at the same level as yours save for his first line.)
David G. Bell
It seemed like a good idea at the time.
One of the reasons I quit was that I felt too much of a cultural
outsider; an agricultural outsider, in fact. And then one member let
his significant other write his contribution -- a fairly hostile attack
on another member. And nobody else seemed to care whether or not that
was a proper thing to do.
Maybe if it hadn't been just before my annual renewal, I might have hung
on.
Some people may recognise the incident -- I have heard some very strange
stories about the couple involved, so bizarre that I wouldn't dare
repeat them in public, even if they were true.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Never criticise a farmer with your mouth full.
Dr Gafia
Breidbart) writes:
>Dr Gafia <drg...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Right. You find yourself at a party, look up and ask, "Ah, hmm, by
>>the way, what city are we in?"
>>
>>And someone invariably comes back with, "Does it matter?"
>Actually, it does.
>
>At least, when you're choosing the restaurant to eat dinner at.
To a degree, yes. I love eating at good restaurants, and I enjoy
eating at excellent restaurants, particularly when there is good-to-
excellent company to share it with. Not every convention I have
attended has an an "excellent" restaurant, but it's rare indeed to go
anyplace that does not have at least a good restaurant. So: If an
excellent restaurant is available, fine, but if not I'll enjoy myself
at a good restaurant with friends as much as I might enjoy an
excellent restaurant alone.
So it matters. But not That Much....
--rich brown
Daniel S Goodman
it. Including, of course, the members.
And I think it's safe to say that no unauthorized person has ever read
the mailings.
Dan Goodman d...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
Gary Farber
: The funny thing is, Arthur, I agree with you. But it has been, so far
: as I know, an exercise that gives optimism some muscle. I have
: participated in a number of private apas, dating back 25 years or
: more, and I've never seen a single unauthorized quotation appear in a
: regular fanzine from any of them. I've never heard of people selling
: the mailings off even when they gafiate.
I welcome your thoughtful post on the subject, rich, which gives a bit of
background to those unfamiliar with the subject, but the implication, to
some degree, of this paragraph, particularly the last sentence, gives me
the impulse to ejaculate: "oh, stf and nonsense!"
It's true that I've never heard of someone advertising: "Secret apas for
sale, here!," but plenty have been passed along, inadvertently,
carelessly, or otherwise.
You can explain to me how I have Lilapazines, Apex mailings, have read
Apathy mailings, SECRET APA, and various others, if this isn't true.
People usually give away collections when gafiating, if not fafiating due
to inconveniences to fanac such as death. They don't tend to sort
material. Really. Another factor is that twenty-year-old secrets start
to seem pointless to many people, and they cease giving a damn.
Not to mention a myriad of other possibilities: spouses getting rid of
stuff, sheer carelessness, etc. Changes of heart. I've mentioned Seth
McEvoy including his mailings of SECRET APA in the collection he donated
to Michigan State University at East Lansing.
Heck, I don't regard *anything* written down as surely-confidential:
hellsjanglingbells, I have copies of people's private correspondence
that's slipped into collections being gotten rid of, as well. Everyone
should be reminded of these possibilities, and that when this is combined
with Murphy's Law, you can usually count on the person you least want to
see your piece of writing getting to see it. Sooner or later.
Which is why I'm not a privacy fetishist. We can only hope. (Note: this
does not release anyone from my expectation that they will use discretion,
and generally keep my affairs, correspondence, and confidences
confidential, as called for by normal common sense and courtesy.)
Keep all this in mind, Alison. I've even read mailings of APA-69 with
zines by rich.
Seth Breidbart
Dr Gafia <drg...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <46gihm$e...@panix3.panix.com>, se...@panix.com (Seth
>Breidbart) writes:
>>Dr Gafia <drg...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Right. You find yourself at a party, look up and ask, "Ah, hmm, by
>>>the way, what city are we in?"
>>>And someone invariably comes back with, "Does it matter?"
>>Actually, it does.
>>At least, when you're choosing the restaurant to eat dinner at.
>To a degree, yes.
>So it matters. But not That Much....
Well, if you'd ever decided to eat at Legal Seafood because you forgot
you were in Philadelphia, you might feel otherwise.
Seth
David E Romm
> People usually give away collections when gafiating, if not fafiating due
> to inconveniences to fanac such as death. They don't tend to sort
> material. Really. Another factor is that twenty-year-old secrets start
> to seem pointless to many people, and they cease giving a damn.
I had many friends in a private (though not secret) apa, which shall
remain nameless, who's only fanpubbing was their apazine. They traded
their apazine for my zine. And on more than one occasion I was handed the
apa and said, "I'm in this." I tried to only read their zine, but with
mailing comments, being a quick scanner and all, I pretty much knew stuff
that was not for my eyes. However, since I haven't blabbed in nearly 20
years, I think their faith in me was justified.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet." -- St. Augustine
Arthur Hlavaty
would be blindfolded. There were replies to the effect that apa-un
already seemed to be run on that principle.
Jim Freund
>>Hey, Jim: nice to see you in these parts. Pull up a comfy chair and sit
>>a spell. My memory utterly fails without a reminder as to whether there
>>were more, or how many; I was only at the one, though it was reasonably
>>close in time to Crotoncon.
I don't recall Crotoncon -- I assume it was somewhere in
Croton-on-Hudson?
>I think there were 3 AKons. I missed the first one and went to the next
>two with the crew from BAI.
Who (besides me) was within the 'BAI crew?
>Jim, for old time's sake I'll drive you to Midwestcon if you can make it
>to DC on your own. You will have to put up with Matt (9 yrs old) and Will
>(4 yrs old) but at least Thor won' t be in the car.
But that would go against my gafiation! But seriously, going to
another MidWestcon would be fun -- I think my last was around 1982...
Is it still a true relaxacon? As for Thor, I'm currently sharing the
ground floor of a house with him...
>Phlange in western PA used to be a nice relaxed con with lots of parties
>and a fun loving crew. Is it still going?
PghLange ended a long time ago, as I recall. Somewhere I should still
have Joanna Russ' GoH speech from there; and I frequently (every
couple of years) rebroadcast Geo. Alec Effinger's speech from PghLange
6. He started it out talking about the 1959 Pittsburgh Pirates, and
went on to liken them to sf pros in some most interesting ways... The
intro to the talk was Gardner Dozois cutting up...
Ahh... The ol' days...
http://www.users.interport.net/~jfreund
Dick Smith
: Me too! I think it may be for lack of those kind of relaxacons that I
: eventually drifted into gafiation. I seem to recall Mal Worob and his
: friend Renee being at one or two. Do you recall how many Akons there
: were?
gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber) writes:
>There's still Midwestcon and Octocon (the real one, in Ohio...
Both of which are still true relaxacons, although we did spoil Midwestcon
a little this year by doing some fan-history stuff in the basement.
Leah & I were just at Octocon last week. Still very pleasant and
friendly... the rubberstamped badges say "Octocon, The Friendly Con".
It bothers me to see the term relaxacon abused by conventions that say
"we only have three tracks of programming, an art show, and...". No
point in naming them here, though.
--
Dick Smith di...@smith.chi.il.us
Mike Scott
>It bothers me to see the term relaxacon abused by conventions that say
>"we only have three tracks of programming, an art show, and...". No
>point in naming them here, though.
Guilty as charged. We did bill Confabulation (this year's Eastercon - UK
national) as "a 650 person relaxacon", at least informally. We did have
three programme streams (two intermittent), and an art show. I think it was
justified, as we were using the term in comparison with other Eastercons
that didn't have a Worldcon looming on the starboard bow.
I think we got away with it, and we got a lot of comments to the effect
that we'd achieved the atmosphere we were aiming for. Others may differ.
--
Mike Scott
mi...@moose.demon.co.uk
Leah Zeldes Smith
>There's still Midwestcon and Octocon (the real one, in Ohio, not the
>latecomer circus in California -- though I'm not *dead* sure it's still
>going), of course. I'd say the real problem was what it keeps coming
>back to: the huge growth of fandom, the diffusion of knowledge so that
>more and more people know less and less, and the resulting fragmentation
>of fandom.
I'm not sure which Octocon you're not sure exists, but the one in Ohio is
still going fine, a bit smaller than it was, but very pleasant. It was
last weekend. Fans from Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois,
Florida and Michigan were there this year. We no longer get much of a
presence from the coasts.
Midwestcon is much larger and broader based. It will be the last full
weekend in June next year, in Cincinnati, as always.
Leah Smith le...@smith.chi.il.us
Gary Farber
: Well, Gary -- back in 1985 or so, I picked up a five-inch stack of
: Lil Apa mailings out of a used fanzine box, but Terry Carr happened
: to be standing right next to me. He focused all the power of his
: verdant will upon my clutching hands, and I gave them all back to
: him, since his friendship and upsetness at the airlock leak meant
: more to me than my fanzine collecting instincts.
Quite so, and the same would apply to me, but I've only found said zines
when examining boxes after the fact, and I think tossing them on the
grave would be rather pointless. I could burn them, to be sure, but I'm
just immoral.
Great to see you here, Lenny. I hope everyone keeps coming out of the
woodwork like this. Well, you know, the *good* people. <grin>
I still use Terry as my beacon of What's Right in fannish decisions;
after my own judgment, that is. In my fannish lifetime, his absence is
our greatest loss. I still haven't gotten over it -- at all.
I'm still damn emotional about it.
Jim Freund
>They're probably not reading this unless it is called to their attention,
>but Jerry Kaufman was there, as was Moshe Feder and Anna Vargo (she may
>still have been Elizabeth Willis, actually). So was Hope Leibowitz. I
>*think* Lise Eisenberg and probably Karina Girsdansky (they were joined at
>the hip back then) were there, though I can't swear to it right now. I
>don't *think* Suzle was there, though, but she can shoot me if I'm
>mistaken. If I hadn't gotten up so early this morning, I might be able to
>further recall who else was there that I knew then (which didn't include
>Martin Schaefer, hey!). Gary Tesser and Hank Davis, maybe? Porter,
>maybe? Elliot Shorter, maybe?
>Certainly a fair number of the con. I think I previously suggested Janet
>and Ricky Kagan. There were many of the usual others.
Me too! Along with Mal Worob and Bruce & Flo Newrock (who ran AKon,
as I recal....)
http://www.users.interport.net/~jfreund
Gary Farber
: I don't recall Crotoncon -- I assume it was somewhere in
: Croton-on-Hudson?
Actually, I wrote the lines you attributed to Ben Zuhl, Jim, which I
snipped. Crotoncon was held at Frank Balazs' parent's quite huge house,
complete with large deck and pool.
: PghLange ended a long time ago, as I recall. Somewhere I should still
: have Joanna Russ' GoH speech from there;
And now Joanna is in Arizona.
: Ahh... The ol' days...
They keep getting older.
Cherish your last days in the 20th Century; we don't have all that many
left, and then we're *really* going to feel old, forever blithering
about "Iie re-e-mmm-em-ber, ba-a-a-ck in the twen-n-tie-th Cent-ur-ry."
All the kids will laugh about our stories of how it was back in the days
before we could switch body parts for better sex, and didn't even have
cheap bandwidth brain-to-brain interfaces which could be twiddled better
than drugs do it.
However, we will still argue about the Hugo rules.