Is Bheer really one of the 4 fannish food groups
Kathy Gallagher
I have to give it a life of its own.
Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate in
with sugar.
I'm mostly a beer drinker. My favorite beer is Honey Lager. I like light
beers. Not diet beers or low alchol beers, but light flavored beers. Dark
beers and most lagers aren't my favorites.
While in Hong Kong I was exposed to Chinese and English beers. It was
determined I have a hopeless Americcan palate and didn't appreciate the
beers I was exposed too. Chinese rice and plum wines are another story.
LOL!
Over the years I've gone from drinking any kind of canned beer to despising
it. I prefer a few bottled beers, but don't drink most. I've gone from
drinking any draft beer to having a strong preference for only a few. I
like draft beers best.
KG
Chris Malme
news:v8m5t8i...@corp.supernews.com:
> Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
> grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put
> chocolate in with sugar.
I'd always considered it to be chocolate, garlic, mushrooms and alcohol.
And I have cooked a dish which contained all 4.
--
Chris
Minstrel's Hall of Filk - http://www.filklore.com
Filklore Music Store - http://www.filklore.co.uk
Andrew Plotkin
> I read about some beer comments on another thread. It wasn't taking off, so
> I have to give it a life of its own.
> Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
> grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate in
> with sugar.
Which you certainly should not. Chocolate is not a sweet flavor. It
goes very well *with* sugar -- but then both chocolate and sugar go
well with grease.
Caffeine sits around being complicated and mooching off its friends'
flavors.
(This being fandom, it's perfectly acceptable to say "The four fannish
food groups are sugar, chocolate, grease, caffeine, and beer. Five!
Five fannish...")
But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
*completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
consider.
I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Mark Evans
"Kathy Gallagher" <kat...@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:v8m5t8i...@corp.supernews.com...
> I read about some beer comments on another thread. It wasn't taking off,
so
> I have to give it a life of its own.
>
> Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
> grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate
in
> with sugar.
No, the traditional fannish food groups are beer, caffine, sugar, salt, and
Chinese. Theobromine-based items usually are found in the caffine and sugar
overlap section.
Mark Evans
Ross Smith
>
> I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
You are Dave Lister AICMFP.
--
Ross Smith ......... r-s...@ihug.co.nz ......... Auckland, New Zealand
Welcome to Babylon, the traitors' homes of newer days
Come feel my terror, or watch the anger rise in me
What was this war for, if it is you who wins at last?
What is your word for, if it is us who breaks the laws?
-- Diary of Dreams
Kathy Gallagher
"Ross Smith" <r-s...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b6fccf$nf$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> Andrew Plotkin wrote:
> >
> > I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
>
> You are Dave Lister AICMFP.
I just got a gag get well card that says they don't make beer flavored
chocolate. LOL!
KG
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
Actually, the timing is quite nice. In Finland they just
started selling chocolate flavored "Easter-beer." It has
an image of a central-casting witch on a broom flying
past the moon on the label. Genuinely not my cup of
cocoa.
--
J-V.
Kathy Gallagher
"Jussi-Ville Heiskanen" <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com> wrote in
message news:pan.2003.04.02.22....@thiswelho.com...
I wonder if any of the specialty stores would have it? Do you know the name
of it.
KG
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
I seriously doubt it. The name is "Pääsiäisolut" "ä" being
an "a" with two dots on. I would almost claim that the beer
is only directed for the domestic market. Since *I* detest
the brew, I don't have an item of it handy, so I can't
readily give further details. There are however quite a
few scandinavian Easterbrews around and it would be
natural for many of them to include chocolate as an
exotic flavoring. (With chocolate Eastereggs and
Rabbits being in season.)
P.S. Although I like chocolate despite being allergic to
it, the combination with "porterish" ale is not remotely
balanced. Coffee and porter, *yes*. Cocoa and porter?
I don't think so!
--
J-V.
Diane Lacey
<mins...@filklore.com> wrote:
>
>I'd always considered it to be chocolate, garlic, mushrooms and alcohol.
>
>And I have cooked a dish which contained all 4.
Would you be willing to share the recipe? This definitely sounds
like something worth trying.
Diane
_____________________________________________________________
One rarely hears an urgent call of "Is there an astrophysicist in the
house?" But then, my big mistake was going into cosmology for the
money... Jordin Kare
____________________________________________________________
Follow the adventures of Ron and Dave at http://www.ronanddave.com/
Miche
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
Ooo! Recipe?
Miche
--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
-- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"
Sandy Tyra
>
> Here, Kathy Gallagher <kat...@voyager.net> wrote:
> > I read about some beer comments on another thread. It wasn't taking off, so
> > I have to give it a life of its own.
>
> > Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
> > grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate in
> > with sugar.
>
> Which you certainly should not. Chocolate is not a sweet flavor. It
> goes very well *with* sugar -- but then both chocolate and sugar go
> well with grease.
>
> Caffeine sits around being complicated and mooching off its friends'
> flavors.
>
> (This being fandom, it's perfectly acceptable to say "The four fannish
> food groups are sugar, chocolate, grease, caffeine, and beer. Five!
> Five fannish...")
>
> But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
> foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
> things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
> *completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
> consider.
>
> I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
>
> --Z
Recipe? Please?
Sandy
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <b6f7q7$qq4$4...@reader2.panix.com>,
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>> I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
> Ooo! Recipe?
If I've mentioned it before, Google must remember...
(Actually it doesn't seem to, at least not the Usenet search.)
<http://www.danampersanderic.org/food/zarf/chocolate_beer_cake.html>
Miche
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> Here, Miche <mich...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> > In article <b6f7q7$qq4$4...@reader2.panix.com>,
> > Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
> >> I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
>
> > Ooo! Recipe?
>
> If I've mentioned it before, Google must remember...
>
> (Actually it doesn't seem to, at least not the Usenet search.)
>
> <http://www.danampersanderic.org/food/zarf/chocolate_beer_cake.html>
Excellent, thank you!
Cally Soukup
> (This being fandom, it's perfectly acceptable to say "The four fannish
> food groups are sugar, chocolate, grease, caffeine, and beer. Five!
> Five fannish...")
> But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
> foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
> things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
> *completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
> consider.
Ooh. Let's see. Hmm. Would fruit be a single element, or a related
family like the metals?
Chocolate, sugar and cream need to be in there somewhere, too. And
another related family -- pastry crusts. (Puff, shortcake, shortbread,
graham cracker....) Perhaps they're the noble elements, since they
don't exactly combine with the others, but provide a platform for them.
Or not.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Chris Malme
news:37jm8v4nkl1h4i9ae...@4ax.com:
> Would you be willing to share the recipe? This definitely sounds
> like something worth trying.
A recipe? I tend to cook by the seat of my pants. I guess I'll just have to
cook it again, and note down the quantities and such for you - maybe in a
couple of weekends time. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
Basically, it was pork soaked overnight in a chili, garlic, apricot (jam)
and brandy marinade, which is then incorporated into a fairly standard mole
sauce, flaming off the brandy first, and cooked with whole chestnut
mushrooms. Serve with rice or tortillas.
Chris Malme
@corp.supernews.com:
One of my currently favourite bottled beers is Young's Double Chocolate
Stout.
http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/products/products.asp?SelectedID=12
Kathy Gallagher
"Chris Malme" <mins...@filklore.com> wrote in message
news:xns9352d965...@filklore.com...
> "Kathy Gallagher" <kat...@voyager.net> wrote in news:v8mdjl5ob41687
> @corp.supernews.com:
>
> >
> > "Ross Smith" <r-s...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:b6fccf$nf$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > > Andrew Plotkin wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
> > >
> > > You are Dave Lister AICMFP.
> >
> > I just got a gag get well card that says they don't make beer flavored
> > chocolate. LOL!
>
> One of my currently favourite bottled beers is Young's Double Chocolate
> Stout.
Should I look for that at a specialty store? I'm not a fan of stout
generally speaking. I tend toward the sweet beers.
KG
Laurie Mann
Kathy Gallagher wrote:
> "Chris Malme" <mins...@filklore.com> wrote in message
> news:xns9352d965...@filklore.com...
>
>>"Kathy Gallagher" <kat...@voyager.net> wrote in news:v8mdjl5ob41687
>>@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>
>>>"Ross Smith" <r-s...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>news:b6fccf$nf$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>>>
>>>>Andrew Plotkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I've mentioned before that I invented a chocolate beer cake. Yum.
>>>>
>>>>You are Dave Lister AICMFP.
No, Dave Lister would have invented vindaloo chocolate cake.
--
** Laurie D. T. Mann *** *** *** ** *** *** http://www.dpsinfo.com **
I am in favor of any war in which the commander in chief,
the vice president, the secretary of defense...
will personally lead the troops onto the field of battle
with their sons and daughters in the second rank. --Ken Parker
Andrew Plotkin
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b6f7q7$qq4$4...@reader2.panix.com>:
>> (This being fandom, it's perfectly acceptable to say "The four fannish
>> food groups are sugar, chocolate, grease, caffeine, and beer. Five!
>> Five fannish...")
>> But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
>> foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
>> things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
>> *completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
>> consider.
> Ooh. Let's see. Hmm. Would fruit be a single element, or a related
> family like the metals?
The fructinide series, I was thinking... sweet at one end, sour at the
other...
Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
enough of those to be a series.
> Chocolate, sugar and cream need to be in there somewhere, too.
The basic elements. :)
> And another related family -- pastry crusts. (Puff, shortcake,
> shortbread, graham cracker....) Perhaps they're the noble elements,
> since they don't exactly combine with the others, but provide a
> platform for them. Or not.
Interesting. They're all combinations of flour and fat, though.
Fats are a column -- butter, shortening, lard.
I should be doing my taxes, shouldn't I.
Kris Hasson-Jones
<erky...@eblong.com> submitted the following for your consideration:
[periodic table of desserts]
>Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
>enough of those to be a series.
Cardamom? Clove?
--
Kris Hasson-Jones sni...@pacifier.com
What Would Aragorn Do?
Kathy Gallagher
"Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message
news:b6g9e0$a34$2...@reader2.panix.com...
tax in an hour. (Qualifier, 25 yrs as a tax preparer and a turbo tax user
since 1989.)
KG
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
>Kathy Gallagher <kat...@voyager.net> wrote:
>> "Chris Malme" <mins...@filklore.com> wrote in message
>>> Stout.
>>
>> Should I look for that at a specialty store? I'm not a fan of stout
>> generally speaking. I tend toward the sweet beers.
>
>typical, or if it's an aberration of my semi-local microbrewery of
>choice(1), but their oatmeal stout is definitely a bit on the sweet side
>(and a bit bitter, but nowhere near Guiness-like).
>
>For myself, I tend toward darkish, sweetish beers, so a Chocolate Stout
>sounds like something worth tracking down.
>
>(1 - Tied House, Mountain View)
(On Villa Avenue. I've morris-danced there, although it's been a while.
I thought their ginger beer (which was actual beer with ginger in it) quite
disappointing, but they had a fine amber. The stout is unusually sweet; most
stouts I've had are closer to the Guinness end of the spectrum.)
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025
===============================================================================
Chris Malme
@corp.supernews.com:
> > One of my currently favourite bottled beers is Young's Double Chocolate
> > Stout.
>
> Should I look for that at a specialty store? I'm not a fan of stout
> generally speaking. I tend toward the sweet beers.
>
It is a British beer, but may be available in some speciality stockists.
Young's own site has a guide to who stocks their beers in the US, though it
is not specific to this particular type.
http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/aboutus/distributors_usa.asp
Miche
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> Here, Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article
> > <b6f7q7$qq4$4...@reader2.panix.com>:
>
> >> (This being fandom, it's perfectly acceptable to say "The four fannish
> >> food groups are sugar, chocolate, grease, caffeine, and beer. Five!
> >> Five fannish...")
>
> >> But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
> >> foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
> >> things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
> >> *completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
> >> consider.
>
> > Ooh. Let's see. Hmm. Would fruit be a single element, or a related
> > family like the metals?
>
> The fructinide series, I was thinking... sweet at one end, sour at the
> other...
>
> Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
> enough of those to be a series.
Cloves, allspice (pimento).
Where would vanilla fit?
[snip]
> I should be doing my taxes, shouldn't I.
Yep. :)
Thomas Womack
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
>foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
>things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
>*completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
>consider.
I don't think I've seen a well-done Periodic Table of anything but
elements. There was a "Periodic Table of languages" on the wall in one
of the departments at Carleton when I visited with Jo and Pamela, but
it was "sentences in ninety-two languages, each in a separate box",
with even such similar tongues as Dutch and German or Italian and
Spanish in totally unrelated boxes.
I suppose things other than elements are not periodic, so it's pretty
much impossible to do; there are probably culinary phase diagrams, but
the obvious one is baking, and it's at least six-dimensional (butter,
eggs, flour, sugar, temperature, cooking time) so a little hard to
draw.
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
>"Kathy Gallagher" <kat...@voyager.net> wrote in news:v8n029ufuo8b0
>@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> > One of my currently favourite bottled beers is Young's Double Chocolate
>> > Stout.
>>
>> Should I look for that at a specialty store? I'm not a fan of stout
>> generally speaking. I tend toward the sweet beers.
>>
>
>It is a British beer, but may be available in some speciality stockists.
>Young's own site has a guide to who stocks their beers in the US, though it
>is not specific to this particular type.
>
>http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/aboutus/distributors_usa.asp
Trader Joe's sometimes has it, I do believe.
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
I don't think you'd agree that they were well-done, but there were
nice-looking "Periodic Tables of the Vegetables" around in the 1980s
(certainly framed on the walls of trendy Venice eateries). The similar
"Periodic Table of the Fruits and Nuts" was nowhere near so nice.
Alan Braggins
> I suppose things other than elements are not periodic, so it's pretty
> much impossible to do; there are probably culinary phase diagrams, but
> the obvious one is baking, and it's at least six-dimensional (butter,
> eggs, flour, sugar, temperature, cooking time) so a little hard to
> draw.
An ice cream/sorbet/sherbert/parfait diagram with sugar, milk solids,
fat, and alcohol can be useful.
Irina Rempt
> Where would vanilla fit?
Mine fits in the glass tube in the spice cabinet.
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/~irina/foundobjects/ Latest: 11-Mar-2003
Nancy Lebovitz
Kris Hasson-Jones <sni...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:22:40 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
><erky...@eblong.com> submitted the following for your consideration:
>
>[periodic table of desserts]
>
>>Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
>>enough of those to be a series.
>
>Cardamom? Clove?
Thank you. I was trying to remember which spice is used in krumkaka (sp?).
It's cardamom.
And before anyone asks--krumkaka is a Scandinavian dessert. It's very
thin pastry which is soft when it comes off the krumkaka iron at which
point it's rolled into a tube. After it hardens, it's filled with
whipped cream. IIRC, the cardamom goes into the pastry.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers
Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Nancy Lebovitz
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
>Fats are a column -- butter, shortening, lard.
>
>I should be doing my taxes, shouldn't I.
>
suitable for printing on t-shirts.
Nancy Lebovitz
>> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b6f7q7$qq4$4...@reader2.panix.com>:
>
>>> (This being fandom, it's perfectly acceptable to say "The four fannish
>>> food groups are sugar, chocolate, grease, caffeine, and beer. Five!
>>> Five fannish...")
>
>>> But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
>>> foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
>>> things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
>>> *completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
>>> consider.
>
>> Ooh. Let's see. Hmm. Would fruit be a single element, or a related
>> family like the metals?
>
>The fructinide series, I was thinking... sweet at one end, sour at the
>other...
>
>Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
>enough of those to be a series.
>
>> Chocolate, sugar and cream need to be in there somewhere, too.
>
>The basic elements. :)
I'm not sure what to do with chocolate. It's a fundamental flavor,
but there's basically only one sort (I expect that the collective
wisdom of rassef will start telling me about the different breeds
of chocolate bean and the effects of being grown in different climates).
Perhaps it just gets its own column, with several exclamation points.
Dairy gets a column: milk, butter, cream.
>> And another related family -- pastry crusts. (Puff, shortcake,
>> shortbread, graham cracker....) Perhaps they're the noble elements,
>> since they don't exactly combine with the others, but provide a
>> platform for them. Or not.
>
>Interesting. They're all combinations of flour and fat, though.
>
>Fats are a column -- butter, shortening, lard.
How do you decide what's a column and what's a row?
Perhaps one is a type (dairy, fruit, grain) and the other is a
characteristic (fat, simple carbohydrate, complex carbohydrate,
flavoring agent)?
Beth Friedman
>Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
>enough of those to be a series.
mace, allspice, cloves, cardomom, (maybe) pepper, vanilla bean
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Beth Friedman
<kat...@voyager.net>, <v8m5t8i...@corp.supernews.com>, wrote:
>Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
>grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate in
>with sugar.
Karen Cooper wrote an essay about the four fannish food groups (after
soliciting ideas here, among other places) that was published in the
Minicon 34 Restaurant Guide.
It's still available online:
http://www.mnstf.org/minicon34/restaurant-guide/
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <b6f7q7$qq4$4...@reader2.panix.com>,
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>>But all that is primitive Aristotelian alchemy. Four elements, my
>>foot. I should write up the Periodic Table of Dessert. Yes, such
>>things exist, but nobody gets them right -- they always show
>>*completed* desserts rather than fundamental elements. Hm. Must
>>consider.
> I don't think I've seen a well-done Periodic Table of anything but
> elements. There was a "Periodic Table of languages" on the wall in one
> of the departments at Carleton when I visited with Jo and Pamela, but
> it was "sentences in ninety-two languages, each in a separate box",
> with even such similar tongues as Dutch and German or Italian and
> Spanish in totally unrelated boxes.
> I suppose things other than elements are not periodic, so it's pretty
> much impossible to do
I have a rough sketch. Give me a day to mess with it.
I've crunched all the numbers for my taxes -- nothing left but filling
in the boxes.
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <0ndn8voj4c5jb07l2...@4ax.com>,
> Kris Hasson-Jones <sni...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:22:40 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
>><erky...@eblong.com> submitted the following for your consideration:
>>
>>[periodic table of desserts]
>>
>>>Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
>>>enough of those to be a series.
>>
>>Cardamom? Clove?
> Thank you. I was trying to remember which spice is used in krumkaka (sp?).
> It's cardamom.
> And before anyone asks--krumkaka is a Scandinavian dessert. It's very
> thin pastry which is soft when it comes off the krumkaka iron at which
> point it's rolled into a tube. After it hardens, it's filled with
> whipped cream. IIRC, the cardamom goes into the pastry.
Sounds like a cannoli, but with a lighter filling?
Sounds good, anyhow.
Alan Braggins
> >> Chocolate, sugar and cream need to be in there somewhere, too.
> >
> >The basic elements. :)
>
> I'm not sure what to do with chocolate. It's a fundamental flavor,
> but there's basically only one sort (I expect that the collective
> wisdom of rassef will start telling me about the different breeds
> of chocolate bean and the effects of being grown in different climates).
What you want is a chocolate tasting club that regularly sends out
(among other things) small bars of chocolate made from different
varieties from different climates.
Kathy Gallagher
"Nate Edel" <arch...@sfchat.org> wrote in message
news:9stsl-...@mail.sfchat.org...
> Kathy Gallagher <kat...@voyager.net> wrote:
> > "Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message
> >> I should be doing my taxes, shouldn't I.
> >>
> > Get turbo tax. It'll go faster. I can do almost anyone's taxes on
turbo
> > tax in an hour. (Qualifier, 25 yrs as a tax preparer and a turbo tax
user
> > since 1989.)
>
was
> a very regular turbotax user from the point at which I started having
> returns too complicated to do by hand, but this year I went with Taxcut
> instead.
>
> Safecast *shudder*
Personally I don't like tax cut. I tried some years back, and ended up
buying turbo tax and either selling, giving away ro throwing away my tax
cut. I still have every year of turbo tax.
KG
Nancy Lebovitz
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>Here, Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>> In article <0ndn8voj4c5jb07l2...@4ax.com>,
>> Kris Hasson-Jones <sni...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:22:40 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
>>><erky...@eblong.com> submitted the following for your consideration:
>>>
>>>[periodic table of desserts]
>>>
>>>>Spices are another series. Cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Hm. Not really
>>>>enough of those to be a series.
>>>
>>>Cardamom? Clove?
>
>> Thank you. I was trying to remember which spice is used in krumkaka (sp?).
>> It's cardamom.
>
>> And before anyone asks--krumkaka is a Scandinavian dessert. It's very
>> thin pastry which is soft when it comes off the krumkaka iron at which
>> point it's rolled into a tube. After it hardens, it's filled with
>> whipped cream. IIRC, the cardamom goes into the pastry.
>
>Sounds like a cannoli, but with a lighter filling?
>
krumkaka doesn't.
>Sounds good, anyhow.
It is.
Kevin J. Maroney
Lebovitz) wrote:
>I'm not sure what to do with chocolate. It's a fundamental flavor,
>but there's basically only one sort (I expect that the collective
>wisdom of rassef will start telling me about the different breeds
>of chocolate bean and the effects of being grown in different climates).
>Perhaps it just gets its own column, with several exclamation points.
A few months ago, Moshe Feder hosted a dark chocolate tasting at his
monthly Last Chance Salon party. Even I could tell that there were
significant differences among the various blends and varieties. They
all tasted more or less like chocolate, though.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
Marilee J. Layman
I tried Turbotax. It took three times as long as doing it by hand,
which is an hour for both fed & state and both the previous year and
the first quarter of the current year. (And no, I haven't done mine
yet, either. I pay quarterly, so I owe some money.)
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Andrew Plotkin
> I have a rough sketch. Give me a day to mess with it.
Current theory, rendered in a boring way:
<http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif>
Obviously still needs much design work, not to mention abbreviations
and color-coding. But that's the layout. Yes, I'm running more on
instinct than on rigid biochemistry.
Yes, many tasty elements are not represented. (O mint! O cardamom!
Blueberries! *Brazil nuts*!) But I can only stretch this thing so far
and still maintain the spatial relationship I'm going for.
Hm, there's room to add blueberries in the fructinides if I add
Marsala in the... what do I call that row? Alcolides? Hoochinides?
David Goldfarb
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>Here, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a rough sketch. Give me a day to mess with it.
>
>Current theory, rendered in a boring way:
>
><http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif>
Interesting and fairly cool. I quite strongly think that vanilla
should be in the box currently containing cinnamon, so that it's on
the same row as chocolate; the other members of the column get pushed
down one row each (so that ginger ends up where you have vanilla now).
I'm also wondering how "little silver balls" wound up in the same column
as "flour". And I'm rather aesthetically displeased by having one
single adjective in a sea of nouns. Perhaps "ice cream" might go
there instead? Or "freezing cold"?
(sig below came up randomly, if you can believe that.)
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"To the general public "calories" are not units
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |of measurement but evil creatures that live in
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |tasty food and make people fat."
| -- Bill Jennings on rec.arts.comics.misc
David Dyer-Bennet
> Here, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a rough sketch. Give me a day to mess with it.
>
> Current theory, rendered in a boring way:
>
> <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif>
>
> Obviously still needs much design work, not to mention abbreviations
> and color-coding. But that's the layout. Yes, I'm running more on
> instinct than on rigid biochemistry.
>
> Yes, many tasty elements are not represented. (O mint! O cardamom!
> Blueberries! *Brazil nuts*!) But I can only stretch this thing so far
> and still maintain the spatial relationship I'm going for.
>
> Hm, there's room to add blueberries in the fructinides if I add
> Marsala in the... what do I call that row? Alcolides? Hoochinides?
Many brownie points for remebering to include "air", which plays a key
role in many desserts.
The liquor series, though, is very strangely biased. Whiskey and
bourbon play a bigger role in desserts than frangelico and creme de
cacao, at least. (And I kept reading over "brandy" looking for
"cognac", but brandy is the correct designation to use for this
purpose, I was just being dumb.)
I don't think the omission of mint is tolerable. It's one of the most
clearly elemental flavors used in desserts.
There's really quite a lot of sense and logic to the arrangement.
Very nicely done!
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <dd...@dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera mailing lists: <dragaera.info/>
Andrew Plotkin
>>Here, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Current theory, rendered in a boring way:
>>>
>>><http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif>
>>
>>Interesting and fairly cool. I quite strongly think that vanilla
>>should be in the box currently containing cinnamon, so that it's on
>>the same row as chocolate; the other members of the column get pushed
>>down one row each (so that ginger ends up where you have vanilla now).
> That's definitely an improvement--it also makes the bottom row at least
> closer to "things that frequently go on top".
And it puts the second column into an approximate order of increasing
pungency.
*But* it ruins my clever association of vanilla (normally used as an
alcohol extract) with the liqueurs. And I think ginger leads fairly
well into the fruits as well.
The close association of "candied" and "ginger" pleases me also. It's
back-handed, but it fits.
> I like having Air as one of the elements.
>>
>>I'm also wondering how "little silver balls" wound up in the same column
>>as "flour".
None of the lower sections of the periodic table ever made much sense
to me. :) That incomplete row is nearly arbitrary, though. (Aside from
putting marshallow below gelatin.) It can stand a lot of rearrangement.
>> And I'm rather aesthetically displeased by having one
>>single adjective in a sea of nouns. Perhaps "ice cream" might go
>>there instead? Or "freezing cold"?
> Or, since types/methods don't otherwise appear on the chart, perhaps
> "rice" could appear there.
You mean "ice"? That's what I had originally. I changed it, to be
honest, because the inconsistency appealed to me...
> I really want a slot for "mint"--it's
> a fairly major flavoring--but there's no obvious place to put it
> with the possible exception of bumping nutmeg.
DDB wrote:
> Many brownie points
(snrk)
> for remebering to include "air", which plays a key role in many
> desserts.
Certainly. How could I prefer dense, deathly desserts to light fluffy
ones without a clear idea of the difference? :)
Somewhere in the middle I realized that "baking soda" (and perhaps
also "baking powder") are at least as important as "salt". But I can't
see where to put them.
> The liquor series, though, is very strangely biased. Whiskey and
> bourbon play a bigger role in desserts than frangelico and creme de
> cacao, at least.
I am very underinformed on matters of booze. The given list comes
mostly from a memorable cocoa-drinking session a few years ago... ("Do
you think cocoa would taste good with a splash of *this*?" The answer
was uniformly "yes". I did bail out early enough to remember all the
details.)
I'd entirely forgotten about bourbon, and whiskey only crossed my mind
briefly. ("Isn't that the same as brandy?" No, now that I actually
think about it.)
> I don't think the omission of mint is tolerable. It's one of the most
> clearly elemental flavors used in desserts.
Hrm. Right.
Maybe if I put vanilla *in* the liqueurs, move ginger down, and put
mint where ginger is now.
Andrew Plotkin
Have I missed any important fillings or toppings?
(I also just noticed that my "insert subtable here" lines are wrong.
Fruits should be in the *second*-from-bottom row, liqueurs in the
bottom row.)
David Dyer-Bennet
> Here, Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
> > David Goldfarb <gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> >>Here, Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Current theory, rendered in a boring way:
> >>>
> >>><http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif>
> >>
> >>Interesting and fairly cool. I quite strongly think that vanilla
> >>should be in the box currently containing cinnamon, so that it's on
> >>the same row as chocolate; the other members of the column get pushed
> >>down one row each (so that ginger ends up where you have vanilla now).
>
> > That's definitely an improvement--it also makes the bottom row at least
> > closer to "things that frequently go on top".
>
> And it puts the second column into an approximate order of increasing
> pungency.
Which is elegant and fits the concept of the table very nicely
(important, since there isn't an actual underlying pattern you're
mapping).
> *But* it ruins my clever association of vanilla (normally used as an
> alcohol extract) with the liqueurs. And I think ginger leads fairly
> well into the fruits as well.
Ginger does lead into the fruits, in several ways.
[snip]
> Somewhere in the middle I realized that "baking soda" (and perhaps
> also "baking powder") are at least as important as "salt". But I can't
> see where to put them.
There's not much chemistry that doesn't involve elements
(understatement), so there's no precedent for omitting any key, um,
element. But you're clearly going to have to omit key elements. I
think you just have to bit the bullet. Or make the chart bigger?
> > The liquor series, though, is very strangely biased. Whiskey and
> > bourbon play a bigger role in desserts than frangelico and creme de
> > cacao, at least.
>
> I am very underinformed on matters of booze. The given list comes
> mostly from a memorable cocoa-drinking session a few years ago... ("Do
> you think cocoa would taste good with a splash of *this*?" The answer
> was uniformly "yes". I did bail out early enough to remember all the
> details.)
Ahhh. It makes *much* more sense in that context. Triple sec and
creme de cacao. Yummmmmm. (Start by making the cocoa with 1/4, yes,
one *quarter*, of the sugar called for by the recipe, if you're adding
these seriously sweet liqueurs).
> I'd entirely forgotten about bourbon, and whiskey only crossed my mind
> briefly. ("Isn't that the same as brandy?" No, now that I actually
> think about it.)
Often rum, bourbon, brandy, and whiskey (since we've separated
bourbon, that mostly means scotch and Irish at this point) are
alternatives in the same recipes. Hard sauce and fruit cake come to
mind. Actually, one way you could save a slot is to not list bourbon
separately, but include it with the other whiskeys. For cooking
purposes *I* think that's legitemate, though I'm sure somebody will
disagree.
John Bartley I solved my XP problems w/ Service Pack Linux
> I read about some beer comments on another thread. It wasn't taking off, so
> I have to give it a life of its own.
>
> Correct me, but I think the 4 fannish food groups are sugar, chocolate,
> grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate in
> with sugar.
>
> beers. Not diet beers or low alchol beers, but light flavored beers. Dark
> beers and most lagers aren't my favorites.
>
> While in Hong Kong I was exposed to Chinese and English beers. It was
> determined I have a hopeless Americcan palate and didn't appreciate the
> beers I was exposed too. Chinese rice and plum wines are another story.
> LOL!
>
> Over the years I've gone from drinking any kind of canned beer to despising
> it. I prefer a few bottled beers, but don't drink most. I've gone from
> drinking any draft beer to having a strong preference for only a few. I
> like draft beers best.
>
> KG
Yes, it is.
Chocolate is sugar/caffeine with small amts of other goodies. (Yes,
there is sugar-free chocolate. File that under caffeine.)
Andrew Plotkin
> "Kathy Gallagher" <kat...@voyager.net> wrote in message news:<v8m5t8i...@corp.supernews.com>...
>>
>> grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate in
>> with sugar.
> Yes, it is.
Yes it is what? (I've snipped the earlier posting to associate your
reply with the question I *think* you're answering, but I could be
wrong.)
> Chocolate is sugar/caffeine with small amts of other goodies.
No, no. Chocolate is sugar and *fat*, with small amounts of other
goodies (such as flavor). Lovely, lovely cocoa butter.
> (Yes, there is sugar-free chocolate. File that under caffeine.)
File that under "wax". :)
You also have to file theobromine under caffeine, but that's fine.
Thomas Yan
[re: problems arranging things]
>
> And it puts the second column into an approximate order of increasing
> pungency.
>
> *But* it ruins my clever association of vanilla (normally used as an
> alcohol extract) with the liqueurs. And I think ginger leads fairly
> well into the fruits as well.
>
> The close association of "candied" and "ginger" pleases me also. It's
> back-handed, but it fits.
Why does it have to be two-dimensional?
-snip-
> Somewhere in the middle I realized that "baking soda" (and perhaps
> also "baking powder") are at least as important as "salt". But I can't
> see where to put them.
That reminds me, I want to try making ammonia cookies some day.
ppint.
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> propounded:
>>>grease and caffiene. Bheer doesn't fit in here unless you put chocolate
>>>in with sugar.
>>
>>Yes, it is.
>
>
>>Chocolate is sugar/caffeine with small amts of other goodies.
>
>No, no. Chocolate is sugar and *fat*, with small amounts of other
>goodies (such as flavor). Lovely, lovely cocoa butter.
>
>>(Yes, there is sugar-free chocolate. File that under caffeine.)
>
>File that under "wax". :)
- i think you must be talking merkin (& xxxxian) candy
bars marketed as "chocolate", here [1]: real chocolate's
made from cocoa beans; sugar (preferably muscavados, but
other sweeteners, such as honey, are acceptable if ime
rare; at least some "diabetic" low sugar chocolates use
sorbitol, and/or other sweeteners); optionally a little
flavouring, such as vanilla, citrus fruit oils, allspice,
cinnamon, mint, etc.); and also optionally an emulsifier,
such as soya lecithin (in descending order of magnitude).
- many people like the sweets they grew up with, of course;
but subsuming chocolate as a sub-category of sugar is not
merely wrong, as the aztecs & maya drank chocolate without
sweetening it at all (& some people do now), but the choco-
late high is quite readily distinguishable from any sugar
"hit" or buzz, and unmistakable for this, once you have ex-
perienced real chocolate.
- but the appeal of real chocolate is not restricted to its
mood-altering biochemical effects: chocolatiers will tell
you - if you ask them - that as well as the ingredients, it
is the amount of slow stirring of the molten mass that is
the secret of hgh quality chocolate; this reduces the size
and the jagged edges of the particles below the threshold at
which our tongues can distinguish them; when this is combined
with real chocolate's property of melting at blood heat, you
have something uniquely well-designed for oral seduction.
>
>You also have to file theobromine under caffeine, but that's fine.
>
- caffeine, theobromine, ethyl alcohol & sugar are all
drugs, and may be subsumed under this heading (though i
shouldn't be surprised, were ardent advocates of single
malt whiskies to start a major seccessionist movement
over the claim); but to treat chocolate so cavalierly as
to deny it its rightful place as a fannish foodgroup, is
demomstrably utterly and indefensibly foolish: for remeber,
sex is a chocolate substitute.
- love, ppint.
[the address from which this was posted bounces e-mail;
use the reply-to e-address, if you wish to e-mail me.]
n.b. cross-posted; please trim this, if your follow-up is specific
to one group or the other.
[1] - hopefully not eating it, anyway.
--
"alcohol doesn't freeze fast enough"
- leona, in i.m.t., 18/5/96 (5/18/96 in merkia)
Andrew Plotkin
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>> Somewhere in the middle I realized that "baking soda" (and perhaps
>> also "baking powder") are at least as important as "salt". But I can't
>> see where to put them.
> There's not much chemistry that doesn't involve elements
> (understatement), so there's no precedent for omitting any key, um,
> element. But you're clearly going to have to omit key elements. I
> think you just have to bit the bullet. Or make the chart bigger?
Definitely needs to get bigger. Some friends and I went through
cookbooks, and now I have a whole slew of potential and necessary
additions.
(Chestnut, pistachio, maple, pumpkin, and it gets only somewhat
stranger from there.)
>> I'd entirely forgotten about bourbon, and whiskey only crossed my mind
>> briefly. ("Isn't that the same as brandy?" No, now that I actually
>> think about it.)
> Often rum, bourbon, brandy, and whiskey (since we've separated
> bourbon, that mostly means scotch and Irish at this point) are
> alternatives in the same recipes. Hard sauce and fruit cake come to
> mind. Actually, one way you could save a slot is to not list bourbon
> separately, but include it with the other whiskeys. For cooking
> purposes *I* think that's legitemate, though I'm sure somebody will
> disagree.
The extra series at the bottom will stretch. Hum hum hum, back to
editing the code.
Here, Thomas Yan <tk...@rcn.com> wrote:
> Why does it have to be two-dimensional?
Because it's not as funny if it doesn't look like a periodic table of
the elements.
> That reminds me, I want to try making ammonia cookies some day.
Me too. I know where to buy baking ammonia, but I've never had the
nerve.
(For those who think we're talking crazy-talk: there's an ammonia
salt, I don't remember exactly what it is, which can be used like
baking powder. It dissociates in heat and the ammonia puffs up the
cookies like nobody's business. Apparently it doesn't affect the
flavor of the cookies, but it does stink up the kitchen while you
bake.)
David Goldfarb
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>Here, Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>> David Goldfarb <gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>>I quite strongly think that vanilla
>>>should be in the box currently containing cinnamon, so that it's on
>>>the same row as chocolate; the other members of the column get pushed
>>>down one row each (so that ginger ends up where you have vanilla now).
>
>> That's definitely an improvement--it also makes the bottom row at least
>> closer to "things that frequently go on top".
>
>And it puts the second column into an approximate order of increasing
>pungency.
>
>*But* it ruins my clever association of vanilla (normally used as an
>alcohol extract) with the liqueurs.
Given that vanilla is a very basic flavor and vanilla extract is an
extremely common ingredient in baked goods, I think it's clear that
vanilla deserves to be higher up. Unlike liqueurs, nobody adds
vanilla for the alcohol content, so the association isn't really
all that strong.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"All is strange and vague."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "Are we dead?"
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |"Or is this Ohio?" -- Animaniacs
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
<erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>(For those who think we're talking crazy-talk: there's an ammonia
>salt, I don't remember exactly what it is, which can be used like
>baking powder. It dissociates in heat and the ammonia puffs up the
>cookies like nobody's business. Apparently it doesn't affect the
>flavor of the cookies,
No it doesn't.
>but it does stink up the kitchen while you bake.)
No it doesn't.
My mother used to bake a pie with ammonia (salt?) and it never stank.
But she's using ordinary baking powder now, because finding baking
ammonia is a pain. the result is almost the same.
vlatko
--
http://www.niribanimeso.org/eng/
http://www.michaelswanwick.com/
vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr
Beth Friedman
>> Somewhere in the middle I realized that "baking soda" (and perhaps
>> also "baking powder") are at least as important as "salt". But I can't
>> see where to put them.
>
>That reminds me, I want to try making ammonia cookies some day.
Doug Wickstrom brought some to a Christmas party a couple of years
ago. They were wonderful -- crisp and light and buttery, with not a
hint of ammonia flavor remaining.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
David Goldfarb
I've never baked them myself, but I've bought packaged cookies that
were made with it. They were pretty good, didn't blow me away.
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "LUM-ber. *heh!* *heh!*"
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Scott McCloud, "Some Words Albert Likes"
Daniel R. Reitman
wrote:
>. . . .
>There's not much chemistry that doesn't involve elements
>(understatement), so there's no precedent for omitting any key, um,
>element. But you're clearly going to have to omit key elements. I
>think you just have to bit the bullet. Or make the chart bigger?
>. . . .
It might be possible to get around this problem by analogy to
isotopes.
Dan, ad nauseam
Andrew Plotkin
> On 04 Apr 2003 16:50:22 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>>. . . .
>>There's not much chemistry that doesn't involve elements
>>(understatement), so there's no precedent for omitting any key, um,
>>element. But you're clearly going to have to omit key elements. I
>>think you just have to bit the bullet. Or make the chart bigger?
> It might be possible to get around this problem by analogy to
> isotopes.
Oh, isotopes are already in the theory. Not that my chart will dig
down to this level of detail -- but you've got isotopic varieties of
cinnamon (cassia and ceylon), corn syrup (dark and light), etc...
any botanical product has lots of varietals anyway...
Beth Friedman
I believe Doug said it was sold as hartshorn in the Scandinavian store
where he bought it. My acquaintance with hartshorn is from Regency
romances, where woman are forever sniffing it to keep themselves from
fainting, which certainly sounds as if it should be something with
ammonia in it.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Steve Glover
<b...@wavefront.com> writes
>I believe Doug said it was sold as hartshorn in the Scandinavian store
>where he bought it. My acquaintance with hartshorn is from Regency
>romances, where woman are forever sniffing it to keep themselves from
>fainting, which certainly sounds as if it should be something with
>ammonia in it.
Ammonium carbonate. Decomposes to ammonia, water and carbon dioxide
without leaving all that icky alkaline sodium behind.
Sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride) is also used in ammonia-based smelling
salts, but is totally unsuitable for baking with.
Steve, still amused by the derivation of "ammonia".
--
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd. Available
Weblog at http://weblog.akicif.net/blogger.html
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Away: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk, 07961 446 902
Kevin J. Maroney
wrote:
>I haven't tried Taxcut yet (typical last-minute filer here) but the type of
>copy protection used by the latest Turbotax is unacceptable.
If Taxcut contains copy protection, I haven't noticed it. I assume
that Block (the publishers of Taxcut) makes most of its Taxcut money
off of the electronic filing fees and collateral sale of investment
services.
Trip the Space Parasite From:
>Here, John Bartley I solved my XP problems w/ Service Pack Linux <johnb...@email.com> wrote:
>> (Yes, there is sugar-free chocolate. File that under caffeine.)
>File that under "wax". :)
Couldn't you be at least a *little* sympathetic?
Trip
--
I write of things which I have neither seen nor learned from another,
things which are not and never could have been, and therefore my readers
should by no means believe them. --Lucian of Samosata
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> In article <er429vs716pbkru7m...@4ax.com>,
> Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> writes
>>I believe Doug said it was sold as hartshorn in the
>>Scandinavian store where he bought it. My acquaintance
>>with hartshorn is from Regency romances, where woman are
>>forever sniffing it to keep themselves from fainting, which
>>certainly sounds as if it should be something with ammonia
>>in it.
>
> Ammonium carbonate. Decomposes to ammonia, water and carbon
> dioxide without leaving all that icky alkaline sodium
> behind.
>
> Sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride) is also used in
> ammonia-based smelling salts, but is totally unsuitable for
> baking with.
But to connect this to the putative subject, was one of the
4 true spirits of the ancient alchemists. (Amongst mercury,
sulphur and [something I forget right at the moment]).
It may have not be good for baking. Amongst the former
Hanseatic states it is still an ingredient for a kind
of "hot candy". And in Finnish fandom is very near to
a Prime Mover; especially when combined with table
salt, medical carbon and grain alcohol. (Aniseed and
various other stuff optional)
> Steve, still amused by the derivation of "ammonia".
>
[*]
--
J-V.
-)(-
Steve Glover
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com> writes
>But to connect this to the putative subject, was one of the
>4 true spirits of the ancient alchemists. (Amongst mercury,
>sulphur and [something I forget right at the moment]).
Arsenic, according to
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_Mohammad_Ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi
>It may have not be good for baking. Amongst the former
>Hanseatic states it is still an ingredient for a kind
>of "hot candy".
I think I've had one of those, thanks. Weird.
>And in Finnish fandom is very near to
>a Prime Mover; especially when combined with table
>salt, medical carbon and grain alcohol. (Aniseed and
>various other stuff optional)
[*]
>> Steve, still amused by the derivation of "ammonia".
>[*]
From the camel dung built up over the years at the temple of Jupiter
Ammon.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> In article
> <pan.2003.04.11.11...@thiswelho.com>,
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com>
> writes
>
>>But to connect this to the putative subject, was one of the
>>4 true spirits of the ancient alchemists. (Amongst mercury,
>>sulphur and [something I forget right at the moment]).
>
> Arsenic, according to
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_Mohammad_Ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi
>
>>It may have not be good for baking. Amongst the former
>>Hanseatic states it is still an ingredient for a kind of
>>"hot candy".
>
> I think I've had one of those, thanks. Weird.
>
>>And in Finnish fandom is very near to a Prime Mover;
>>especially when combined with table salt, medical carbon
>>and grain alcohol. (Aniseed and various other stuff
>>optional)
>
> [*]
Finland really didn't have a tradition for cocktails. The
joke for a Finnish cocktail: "Pint of vodka and one
cranberry on a coctail-stick."
Then in _Simpsons_ (the cartoon series) there was this
bit in which Bart Simpson "invents" a silly but popular
mixed drink containing cough medicine and what not,
flamed etc.
That happened to hit a strange moment in Finnish boozing
culture. People say that this inspired this huge fad of
making a mixed drink of grain alcohol and a particular
brand of hot candy containing the traditional ingredient
(sal ammonia/salmiak/sal armagnac). It even branched out
to introducing the juvenile drinking classes to the whole
concept of mixed drinks...
But in terms of Finnish fandom, the crucial qualia was the
colour. Since the "Helsinki Mafia" was predominantly
congenital or adapted goths, vodka that was coloured
black was an obvious winner.
The canonical recipe: Take a long swig from a 700 ml
bottle of vodka. Add two bags of "Turkinpippuri/Turkiskt
pebbar" (Turkish pepper) approx. 300 grams. Close bottle.
Put bottle into an empty dishwasher. Run full program
without the washing chemicals, but at full 60 degrees
Celcius. Let the bottle cool, and chill in fridge...
Nowadays it is mostly drank in a ready mixed form, if at
all. Finnish fandom is probably one of the last bastions
of the fad.
--
J-V.
-)(-
Per C. Jorgensen
message news:pan.2003.04.11.15...@thiswelho.com...
> The canonical recipe: Take a long swig from a 700 ml
> bottle of vodka. Add two bags of "Turkinpippuri/Turkiskt
> pebbar" (Turkish pepper) approx. 300 grams. Close bottle.
> Put bottle into an empty dishwasher. Run full program
> without the washing chemicals, but at full 60 degrees
> Celcius. Let the bottle cool, and chill in fridge...
Ah, that stuff. I must admit that the recipe I saw was to smash
Tyrkisk Pepper to powder in a morter or somesuch, then mix
and shake. I've also seen the ready-mixed stuff in tax free
shops in Norway and Sweden.
I tried it once, on a ferry trip from Stockholm to Tallin in '94.
It tasted, well, like candy, but I did not want a second one.
I also remember that there was a scare about candy-flavoured
spirits, stories in the press about Finnish kids drinking themselves
to death "because they couldn't taste the alcohol", etc. A bit like
the more current alcopops scare. I must admit that I have tried
alcopops twice (a Smirnoff Ice and a Red Square Irn Bru),
and spent a lot more time finishing those drinks than I've ever done
with a beer, so I am a bit surprised that people say that these
drinks are so readily swigged. Admittedly, I do not have that
much of a sweet tooth when it comes to alcoholic drinks (except
for enjoying a glass of port or madeira or Drambuie, but that
is about it, and that stuff is typically not chugged, anyhow...)
> Nowadays it is mostly drank in a ready mixed form, if at
> all. Finnish fandom is probably one of the last bastions
> of the fad.
- p c j
Johan Anglemark
airteagal <pan.2003.04.11.15...@thiswelho.com>:
>The canonical recipe: Take a long swig from a 700 ml
>bottle of vodka. Add two bags of "Turkinpippuri/Turkiskt
>pebbar" (Turkish pepper) approx. 300 grams. Close bottle.
>Put bottle into an empty dishwasher. Run full program
>without the washing chemicals, but at full 60 degrees
>Celcius. Let the bottle cool, and chill in fridge...
>
>Nowadays it is mostly drank in a ready mixed form, if at
>all. Finnish fandom is probably one of the last bastions
>of the fad.
Imagine there are actually still people who think that Finn fans are sane.
See you in Turku, J-V!
-j
--
Kom och träffa Alastair Reynolds och Ken MacLeod!
Swecon 2003 - Upsala SF-möte X
Uppsala Sweden, 15-17/Aug/2003
http://sfweb.dang.se/2003.html
Mary Kay
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:35:06 +0300, Steve Glover wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <pan.2003.04.11.11...@thiswelho.com>,
> > Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com>
> > writes
> >>It may have not be good for baking. Amongst the former
> >>Hanseatic states it is still an ingredient for a kind of
> >>"hot candy".
> >
> > I think I've had one of those, thanks. Weird.
> >
> >>And in Finnish fandom is very near to a Prime Mover;
> >>especially when combined with table salt, medical carbon
> >>and grain alcohol. (Aniseed and various other stuff
> >>optional)
> >
I really really want to try some of this candy. I like hot candy and
this just sounds so bizarre. Now how, living in the US as I do, am I
going to manage that? Anybody from Finland coming to worldcon?
> The canonical recipe: Take a long swig from a 700 ml
> bottle of vodka. Add two bags of "Turkinpippuri/Turkiskt
> pebbar" (Turkish pepper) approx. 300 grams. Close bottle.
> Put bottle into an empty dishwasher. Run full program
> without the washing chemicals, but at full 60 degrees
> Celcius. Let the bottle cool, and chill in fridge...
>
> Nowadays it is mostly drank in a ready mixed form, if at
> all. Finnish fandom is probably one of the last bastions
> of the fad.
I have drunk pepper flavored vodka. It's pretty good.
MKK
--
There are 10 types of people in the world; those who understand binary,
and those who don't.
Kathy Gallagher
"Mary Kay" <mar...@kare.ws> wrote in message
news:1ft92cg.1vi19ueaq803hN%mar...@kare.ws...
Check for ethnic stores. Someone here can tell you if a Russian store
carries the right ingredients. Some fads cross borders
KG
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:35:06 +0300, Steve Glover wrote:
>>
>> > In article
>> > <pan.2003.04.11.11...@thiswelho.com>,
>> > Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>> > <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com> writes
>> >>It may have not be good for baking. Amongst the former
>> >>Hanseatic states it is still an ingredient for a kind of
>> >>"hot candy".
>> >
>> > I think I've had one of those, thanks. Weird.
>> >
>> >>And in Finnish fandom is very near to a Prime Mover;
>> >>especially when combined with table salt, medical carbon
>> >>and grain alcohol. (Aniseed and various other stuff
>> >>optional)
>> >
> I really really want to try some of this candy. I like hot
> candy and this just sounds so bizarre. Now how, living in
> the US as I do, am I going to manage that? Anybody from
> Finland coming to worldcon?
Probably yes. And probably with ample supplies of
"Salmiakkikossu". (For myself a lottery win would be
a prerequisite)
One place you might look for it over there is the
pharmacist. Some cough medicines use it. Look
for "sal ammonia", "salmiak" or "ammonium chloride"
in the ingredients list. Don't buy the pure chemical.
The strongest candies have been limited by law to
7% strength (used to be 14%). The pure stuff by
itself is much too tart to be pleasurable. Also
the tablesalt, licorice, aniseed invertsugar etc
add and modify the experience quite considerably.
There are two major variants. The "pepper hot"
version that will bring tears to the eyes of
the untrained. The other end of the spectrum
is the licorice like stuff with only very
mild "salmiak-taste".
>> The canonical recipe: Take a long swig from a 700 ml
>> bottle of vodka. Add two bags of "Turkinpippuri/Turkiskt
>> pebbar" (Turkish pepper) approx. 300 grams. Close bottle.
>> Put bottle into an empty dishwasher. Run full program
>> without the washing chemicals, but at full 60 degrees
>> Celcius. Let the bottle cool, and chill in fridge...
>>
>> Nowadays it is mostly drank in a ready mixed form, if at
>> all. Finnish fandom is probably one of the last bastions
>> of the fad.
>
> I have drunk pepper flavored vodka. It's pretty good.
--
J-V.
-)(-
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> In article
> <pan.2003.04.11.11...@thiswelho.com>,
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com>
> writes
>
>>But to connect this to the putative subject, was one of the
>>4 true spirits of the ancient alchemists. (Amongst mercury,
>>sulphur and [something I forget right at the moment]).
>
> Arsenic, according to
<snigger> Hee hee, he wrote "Arsenic"... <snigger>
;-)
--
J-V.
-)(-
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> "Jussi-Ville Heiskanen"
> <jussi-vill...@thiswelho.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.04.11.15...@thiswelho.com...
>
>> The canonical recipe: Take a long swig from a 700 ml
>> bottle of vodka. Add two bags of "Turkinpippuri/Turkiskt
>> pebbar" (Turkish pepper) approx. 300 grams. Close bottle.
>> Put bottle into an empty dishwasher. Run full program
>> without the washing chemicals, but at full 60 degrees
>> Celcius. Let the bottle cool, and chill in fridge...
>
> Ah, that stuff. I must admit that the recipe I saw was to
> smash Tyrkisk Pepper to powder in a morter or somesuch,
> then mix and shake. I've also seen the ready-mixed stuff in
> tax free shops in Norway and Sweden.
As I understand it the candy itself is most popular in
Finland, Iceland and the Netherlands.
> I tried it once, on a ferry trip from Stockholm to Tallin
> in '94. It tasted, well, like candy, but I did not want a
> second one.
My experience is much the same. A waste of both vodka and
salmiakki. Interresting to try a few times as a novelty.
Not as a regular tipple.
> I also remember that there was a scare about
> candy-flavoured spirits, stories in the press about Finnish
> kids drinking themselves to death "because they couldn't
> taste the alcohol", etc. A bit like the more current
> alcopops scare...
<snippage>
Yeah. Typical tabloid driven lynch mob. AFAIK based on an
urban legend about some teenager having a heart attack, and
some hysteric people claiming that the medical effects of
the alcohol-salmiakki combination were the cause.
The Finnish distribution monopoly pulled the product from
the market. They didn't throw the stuff away, but warehoused
it instead. Some five years later after the fuss had
died down and the original hoax had been debunked...
Well they just unceremoniously pulled the old stock from
the warehouse and have been happily selling it ever since.
The kernel of truth in the whole brouhaha is that
salmiak (and the normal salt as well) does aid
fluid retention and heightens blood pressure. So
megadosing on it is not good for those otherwise
susceptible. OTOH has some nice sexual effects...
--
J-V.
-)(-
Per C. Jorgensen
> As I understand it the candy itself is most popular in
> Finland, Iceland and the Netherlands.
Aren't the Danes also quite fond of it as well? It is not
unknown here, either.
When it comes to licorice, I had a friend who'd once given
a "saltpastill" - salty pastille for the throat - to a
Russian woman he knew. Salty licorice as a good taste,
even a treat, as in Scandinavia, was
apparently unknow to her, and she spent a whole day totally
miffed and would not talk to him at all... She thought
it was a practical joke, like those candies filled with
chili pepper you can buy in novelty shops.......
-- PC
Cally Soukup
> Oh, isotopes are already in the theory. Not that my chart will dig
> down to this level of detail -- but you've got isotopic varieties of
> cinnamon (cassia and ceylon), corn syrup (dark and light), etc...
> any botanical product has lots of varietals anyway...
I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
but not quite. A name brand? "Fi" for "Hazelnut" took me a moment,
but I got it.
Very nice, indeed.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Cally Soukup
> I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
> abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
> too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
> it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
> but not quite. A name brand? "Fi" for "Hazelnut" took me a moment,
> but I got it.
On further perusal, should you have marzipan there? It's mostly just
ground almonds, which you already have. How about replacing it with
sesame seeds; that way you enable the creation of halva? You do
already have poppy seeds. Though then I don't know what you'd do about
tahini. Hmm. This is complicated.
Aaron Denney
> already have poppy seeds. Though then I don't know what you'd do about
> tahini. Hmm. This is complicated.
Tahini as a dessert?
--
Aaron Denney
-><-
Mary Kay
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b6qgeg$dh0$2...@reader2.pa
nix.com>:
>
> > Oh, isotopes are already in the theory. Not that my chart will dig
> > down to this level of detail -- but you've got isotopic varieties of
> > cinnamon (cassia and ceylon), corn syrup (dark and light), etc...
> > any botanical product has lots of varietals anyway...
>
> I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
> abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
> too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
> it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
> but not quite. A name brand? "Fi" for "Hazelnut" took me a moment,
> but I got it.
>
> Very nice, indeed.
My reading of rasff has been extremely spotty of late and this sounds
like something I'm sorry to have missed. URL?
Heather Jones
>
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b6qgeg$dh0$2...@reader2.panix.com>:
>
> > Oh, isotopes are already in the theory. Not that my chart will dig
> > down to this level of detail -- but you've got isotopic varieties of
> > cinnamon (cassia and ceylon), corn syrup (dark and light), etc...
> > any botanical product has lots of varietals anyway...
>
> I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
> abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
> too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
> it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
> but not quite. A name brand?
Some French word that my memory is telling me is spelled "dragée"
but my eyes are telling me is not.
Heather
--
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
Cally Soukup
> Tahini as a dessert?
It must be used in some dessert or other; he's got it on the chart.
I'm only familiar with its use in hummus, but it's a big world.
(for those of you with news servers that have already expired it, the
table is at
http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif
)
Marilee J. Layman
http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Mary Kay
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:49:50 -0700, mar...@kare.ws (Mary Kay) wrote:
>
> >Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b6qgeg$dh0$2@reader2
.pa
> >nix.com>:
> >>
> >> > Oh, isotopes are already in the theory. Not that my chart will dig
> >> > down to this level of detail -- but you've got isotopic varieties of
> >> > cinnamon (cassia and ceylon), corn syrup (dark and light), etc...
> >> > any botanical product has lots of varietals anyway...
> >>
> >> I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
> >> abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
> >> too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
> >> it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
> >> but not quite. A name brand? "Fi" for "Hazelnut" took me a moment,
> >> but I got it.
> >>
> >> Very nice, indeed.
> >
> >My reading of rasff has been extremely spotty of late and this sounds
> >like something I'm sorry to have missed. URL?
>
> http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif
Thanks! David G. also emailed it to me. Very nice!
Cally Soukup
> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
>> abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
>> too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
>> it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
>> but not quite. A name brand? "Fi" for "Hazelnut" took me a moment,
>> but I got it.
>>
>> Very nice, indeed.
> My reading of rasff has been extremely spotty of late and this sounds
> like something I'm sorry to have missed. URL?
<http://www.eblong.com/zarf/periodic/periodic.gif>
Andrew Plotkin
> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote in article <b79t1d$b40$1...@wheel1.two14.net>:
>> I just went back to look at it again, and you've added colors! And
>> abbreviations! And some of the abbreviations are from other languages,
>> too, which I REALLY like. "M" for "Honey" and "O" for "Egg". I love
>> it. (I'm *almost* understanding the "Dr" for "Little Silver Balls",
>> but not quite. A name brand? "Fi" for "Hazelnut" took me a moment,
>> but I got it.
> On further perusal, should you have marzipan there? It's mostly just
> ground almonds, which you already have. How about replacing it with
> sesame seeds; that way you enable the creation of halva? You do
> already have poppy seeds. Though then I don't know what you'd do about
> tahini. Hmm. This is complicated.
It's complicated, and in several places I have pulled the "because I
say so" lever.
If I didn't have marzipan, I couldn't put it directly below almonds.
If I didn't have marshmallow, I couldn't put it directly below
gelatin. I want *some* vertical periodicity besides the left and right
columns.
Yes, the little silver balls are called dragees.
And try making shortbread with a mixture of tahini and butter. Oh boy.
Not exactly light, but full of joy.
I now have some other diagrams, and I am putting together a complete
poster, which will be available from CafePress soon. You might want to
hold off passing this thing around until I have a final version up!
You're looking at a rough draft.
Irina Rempt
> And try making shortbread with a mixture of tahini and butter. Oh boy.
> Not exactly light, but full of joy.
Even without any butter, like my friend's Lenten cake. Tahini, flour and
honey, optional dates and nuts.
(also, tahini implies halva, which is very yummy)
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/~irina/foundobjects/ Latest: 11-Mar-2003
Cally Soukup
> Here, Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote in article <b79t1d$b40$1...@wheel1.two14.net>:
>> On further perusal, should you have marzipan there? It's mostly just
>> ground almonds, which you already have. How about replacing it with
>> sesame seeds; that way you enable the creation of halva? You do
>> already have poppy seeds. Though then I don't know what you'd do about
>> tahini. Hmm. This is complicated.
> It's complicated, and in several places I have pulled the "because I
> say so" lever.
Fair enough!
> If I didn't have marzipan, I couldn't put it directly below almonds.
> If I didn't have marshmallow, I couldn't put it directly below
> gelatin. I want *some* vertical periodicity besides the left and right
> columns.
> Yes, the little silver balls are called dragees.
> And try making shortbread with a mixture of tahini and butter. Oh boy.
> Not exactly light, but full of joy.
Hmm. Sounds good. Got a full recipe, by any chance?
Cally Soukup
> On Monday 14 April 2003 17:05 Andrew Plotkin wrote:
>> And try making shortbread with a mixture of tahini and butter. Oh boy.
>> Not exactly light, but full of joy.
> Even without any butter, like my friend's Lenten cake. Tahini, flour and
> honey, optional dates and nuts.
> (also, tahini implies halva, which is very yummy)
Ahh, ok. I thought the ground seseme in halva was different from
tahini. I sit corrected!
Andrew Plotkin
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b7eiol$gde$2...@reader1.panix.com>:
>> And try making shortbread with a mixture of tahini and butter. Oh boy.
>> Not exactly light, but full of joy.
> Hmm. Sounds good. Got a full recipe, by any chance?
<http://www.danampersanderic.org/food/zarf/shortbread.html> -- at
least, that's my general starting point.
Irina Rempt
> Ahh, ok. I thought the ground seseme in halva was different from
> tahini. I sit corrected!
Perhaps you've only seen tahini with salt in. My brain seems to think
that "tahini" is the word for "sesame ground into a paste", but the
health-food shop has both kinds (though the Turkish grocery, where I
get it, has only the unsalted sesame-only kind).
Cally Soukup
> Here, Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in article <b7eiol$gde$2...@reader1.panix.com>:
>>> And try making shortbread with a mixture of tahini and butter. Oh boy.
>>> Not exactly light, but full of joy.
>> Hmm. Sounds good. Got a full recipe, by any chance?
> <http://www.danampersanderic.org/food/zarf/shortbread.html> -- at
> least, that's my general starting point.
Thanks!