AKICIF: Cooking. Specifically, shortening substitutes.
Eloise Mason (nee Beltz-Decker)
fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
What, are you trying to kill me?"
I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
Can anything? Successfully, I mean. Do Brits have shortening
(artificial lard that it is)? If not, what do they use? I'm having some
flashbacks to the corn syrup and pecan pie discussion from lo these many
years ago. :->
--
Eloise Mason (nee Beltz-Decker) elo...@ripco.com
Kids are compassion and cruelty and curiousity, wrapped up
in solipsism and leaking random fluids. -- Ursula Vernon
Dorothy J Heydt
Eloise Mason (nee Beltz-Decker) <elo...@ripco.com> wrote:
> I have a [very large amount] of cookie recipes and other baking
>fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
>the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
>What, are you trying to kill me?"
>
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
(1) there's a low-transfat version of Crisco now, possibly other
brands too by now.
(2) My experience is that you can indeed use butter instead of
shortening, and in fact that butter tastes better, but the
recipes say shortening because it's cheaper.
You could try them out, cautiously, one recipe/batch at a time.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Mark Hertel
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0512211226210.8710@shell2>,
> Eloise Mason (nee Beltz-Decker) <elo...@ripco.com> wrote:
>> I have a [very large amount] of cookie recipes and other baking
>>fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
>>the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
>>What, are you trying to kill me?"
>>
>> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
>
> (1) there's a low-transfat version of Crisco now, possibly other
> brands too by now.
>
> (2) My experience is that you can indeed use butter instead of
> shortening, and in fact that butter tastes better, but the
> recipes say shortening because it's cheaper.
I think you have to increase the butter versus the shortening and
decrease the liquid. I recall that butter has about 20% water, so
you have to take that into account when substituting.
--Mark
Jenn Ridley
> I have a [very large amount] of cookie recipes and other baking
>fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
>the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
>What, are you trying to kill me?"
>
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
I'd really be surprised if they said that you can't substitute butter
for shortening. In most cases a simple 1:1 substitution will work
just fine, although you may want to adjust it to your preference after
you try it once.
I've not run across anything (except pie crust) where one cannot
substitute butter for shortening. (and for pie crust you can
substitute lard, which I can get at most grocery stores in my area.)
I do it in most recipes as a matter or course, unless I'm baking
something from the "great fast". And usually in those cases I'll bake
something else.
--
Jenn Ridley : jri...@chartermi.net
smg...@yahoo.com
> I've not run across anything (except pie crust) where one cannot
> substitute butter for shortening. (and for pie crust you can
> substitute lard, which I can get at most grocery stores in my area.)
I'm becroggled. I've never made a pie crust with anything other than
butter. I wasn't substituting it for shortening; shortening was never
involved at all. Lard wouldn't occur to me - too many Jewish friends.
Susan
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0512211226210.8710
@shell2:
> I have a [very large amount] of cookie recipes and other baking
> fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
> the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
> What, are you trying to kill me?"
>
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
> such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
> versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
>
> Can anything? Successfully, I mean. Do Brits have shortening
> (artificial lard that it is)? If not, what do they use? I'm having some
> flashbacks to the corn syrup and pecan pie discussion from lo these many
> years ago. :->
Rokeach Neutral Nyafat, available at your local Kosher markets.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Evelyn C. Leeper
My substitutions file says:
BUTTER, 1 CUP:14 tbs. solid shortening
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Complaint is the largest tribute heaven receives,
and the sincerest part of our devotion. --Jonathan Swift
Erol K. Bayburt
<elo...@ripco.com> wrote:
> I have a [very large amount] of cookie recipes and other baking
>fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
>the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
>What, are you trying to kill me?"
>
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
>
> Can anything? Successfully, I mean. Do Brits have shortening
>(artificial lard that it is)? If not, what do they use? I'm having some
>flashbacks to the corn syrup and pecan pie discussion from lo these many
>years ago. :->
There's the (relatively) new "green label" Crisco shortening made
without hydrogenation, and therefore without the trans fats. It's
close enough to the old blue-label Crisco to make no difference in
most recipes. Of course it's a big lump of naturally-evil *saturated*
fats, but you can't have everything.
--
Erol K. Bayburt
Ero...@aol.com
Jenn Ridley
>Jenn Ridley wrote:
>> I've not run across anything (except pie crust) where one cannot
>> substitute butter for shortening. (and for pie crust you can
>> substitute lard, which I can get at most grocery stores in my area.)
>
>I'm becroggled. I've never made a pie crust with anything other than
>butter.
Enh. Whatever. The piecrust recipe I use (passed down from my
g-gramma) uses lard or shortening. We (my mom and I) have never been
able to get that particular recipe to work with butter.
jenn
--
Jenn Ridley : jri...@chartermi.net
Dorothy J Heydt
And, when I was making apple pies a while back, I was making them
with shortening, and my son inisted I switch to butter, so I
compromised with half-and-half.
Karen Lofstrom
> Enh. Whatever. The piecrust recipe I use (passed down from my
> g-gramma) uses lard or shortening. We (my mom and I) have never been
> able to get that particular recipe to work with butter.
My butter piecrusts are loved by all.
2 cups flour, 2/3 cup butter, mix with the fingers. Use the thumb and the
first two fingers against each other, as if you were trying to snap your
finger. Don't grab with the whole hand. The butter-flour mixture should
approach the consistency of cornmeal, lots of tiny flour-butter granules.
Then, instead of measuring the water to add (which always results in a
failure) I turn on the water in the sink, cold water, just a trickle. Put
the bowl of granules under the water, run in a little water, pull it out,
toss lightly by hand. Repeat this until the mixture JUST holds together.
Must handle very very lightly.
If the butter has more water than shortening, that explains why adding as
much water as specified by the recipe resulted in failure. Adding water
tiny bit by tiny bit until it's just right successfully adjusts to
moisture content of butter and possibly flour.
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
That may be ... but I have a running tab on a
pedal steel bar chord. You can listen later. -- Bill Bill
Daniel R. Reitman
<elo...@ripco.com> wrote:
>. . . .
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
>. . . .
Going to the rarely used can of shortening in my fridge, it says:
"1 cup Crisco + 6 tablespoons water = 1 cup butter or margarine."
Presumably, this could be reversed.
Dan, ad nauseam
Andrew Stephenson
drei...@spiritone.com "Daniel R. Reitman" writes:
> Going to the rarely used can of shortening in my fridge, it says:
>
> "1 cup Crisco + 6 tablespoons water = 1 cup butter or margarine."
>
> Presumably, this could be reversed.
Hmm...
"1 cup Crisco = 1 cup butter or margarine - 6 tablespoons water."
That "-" bit should be interesting to watch.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Nancy Lebovitz
Does lard have to be pig fat, or will any animal fat do?
--
Nancy Lebovitz http://www.nancybuttons.com
http://livejournal.com/users/nancylebov
My two favorite colors are "Oooooh" and "SHINY!".
Evelyn C. Leeper
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:28:52 -0600, "Eloise Mason (nee Beltz-Decker)"
> <elo...@ripco.com> wrote:
>
>> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
>
> Going to the rarely used can of shortening in my fridge, it says:
>
> "1 cup Crisco + 6 tablespoons water = 1 cup butter or margarine."
>
> Presumably, this could be reversed.
To drag this back to SF fandom (I know--why bother?), there was a recipe
for mole chili in one of the LoneStarCon Progress Reports, which called
for some quantity of unsweetened chocolate and some quantity of sugar.
When I looked up conversions for this, it turned out that these two
quantities converted precisely to a quantity of chocolate chips, leading
me to believe that the original recipe may have had those as the ingredient.
(I then further modified it to use beans and bulghur instead of meat,
and it's one of our favorites. Yes, I know chili purists would be
horrified, but when one is trying for a diet limited in meat, and
severely limited in red meat, beans are the way to go.)
Evelyn C. Leeper
> In article <1135194298.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> <smg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Jenn Ridley wrote:
>>
>>>I've not run across anything (except pie crust) where one cannot
>>>substitute butter for shortening. (and for pie crust you can
>>>substitute lard, which I can get at most grocery stores in my area.)
>>
>>I'm becroggled. I've never made a pie crust with anything other than
>>butter. I wasn't substituting it for shortening; shortening was never
>>involved at all. Lard wouldn't occur to me - too many Jewish friends.
>
>
> Does lard have to be pig fat, or will any animal fat do?
Lard is pig fat. Suet is beef fat. (Or according to some sources, suet
is hard cow and sheep fat, and tallow is rendered suet.)
Schmaltz is chicken or goose fat.
Dorothy J Heydt
You subtract it from whatever other liquid you're using.
Or you say the hell with it and just use 1:1 substitution. The
only recipe I can think of that is so unforgiving that the
proportions would have to be juggled, is snickerdoodles, and I
don't care if I never bake another snickerdoodle again.
Bernard Peek
<ele...@optonline.net> writes
>Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
>
>> In article <1135194298.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> <smg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Jenn Ridley wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've not run across anything (except pie crust) where one cannot
>>>>substitute butter for shortening. (and for pie crust you can
>>>>substitute lard, which I can get at most grocery stores in my area.)
>>>
>>>I'm becroggled. I've never made a pie crust with anything other than
>>>butter. I wasn't substituting it for shortening; shortening was never
>>>involved at all. Lard wouldn't occur to me - too many Jewish friends.
>> Does lard have to be pig fat, or will any animal fat do?
>
>Lard is pig fat. Suet is beef fat. (Or according to some sources,
>suet is hard cow and sheep fat, and tallow is rendered suet.)
Suet is specifically the fat from around the kidneys, usually from beef.
There is also a "vegetarian suet" which has similar properties. It is a
hard fat and presumably softens at a higher temperature than ordinary
animal fats, which are in turn harder than poultry fats.
--
Once more in search of cognoscenti
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
David Dyer-Bennet
> To drag this back to SF fandom (I know--why bother?), there was a
> recipe for mole chili in one of the LoneStarCon Progress Reports,
> which called for some quantity of unsweetened chocolate and some
> quantity of sugar. When I looked up conversions for this, it turned
> out that these two quantities converted precisely to a quantity of
> chocolate chips, leading me to believe that the original recipe may
> have had those as the ingredient.
>
> (I then further modified it to use beans and bulghur instead of meat,
> and it's one of our favorites. Yes, I know chili purists would be
> horrified, but when one is trying for a diet limited in meat, and
> severely limited in red meat, beans are the way to go.)
Eh; chili *purists* understand that it's a stew of beans and tomatos
seasoned with chile peppers. It's the *revisionists* who think the
meat is the key ingredient.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
Nancy Lebovitz
Evelyn C. Leeper <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
>Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
>
>> In article <1135194298.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> <smg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Jenn Ridley wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've not run across anything (except pie crust) where one cannot
>>>>substitute butter for shortening. (and for pie crust you can
>>>>substitute lard, which I can get at most grocery stores in my area.)
>>>
>>>I'm becroggled. I've never made a pie crust with anything other than
>>>butter. I wasn't substituting it for shortening; shortening was never
>>>involved at all. Lard wouldn't occur to me - too many Jewish friends.
>>
>>
>> Does lard have to be pig fat, or will any animal fat do?
>
>Lard is pig fat. Suet is beef fat. (Or according to some sources, suet
>is hard cow and sheep fat, and tallow is rendered suet.)
The question I was trying to get at is whether decent pies could be
ok (by kosher standards) with a meat meal.
>
>Schmaltz is chicken or goose fat.
I was shocked when I read that in German, schmaltz is (includes?) pig fat.
This was in a Wall Street Journal article about pork schmaltz as a commonly
eaten food in German, including just spreading it on bread.
Nancy Lebovitz
David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:
>"Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> writes:
>
>> To drag this back to SF fandom (I know--why bother?), there was a
>> recipe for mole chili in one of the LoneStarCon Progress Reports,
>> which called for some quantity of unsweetened chocolate and some
>> quantity of sugar. When I looked up conversions for this, it turned
>> out that these two quantities converted precisely to a quantity of
>> chocolate chips, leading me to believe that the original recipe may
>> have had those as the ingredient.
>>
>> (I then further modified it to use beans and bulghur instead of meat,
>> and it's one of our favorites. Yes, I know chili purists would be
>> horrified, but when one is trying for a diet limited in meat, and
>> severely limited in red meat, beans are the way to go.)
>
>Eh; chili *purists* understand that it's a stew of beans and tomatos
>seasoned with chile peppers. It's the *revisionists* who think the
>meat is the key ingredient.
I've heard that there are two primary sources of chile recipes: western,
where the purpose was to make tough beef palatable, and mid-western, where
the purpose was to eat adequately during the depression. It's the latter
which has beans.
David Dyer-Bennet
Now *that's* a variant I haven't encountered before. I've been
assuming it's a Mexican peasant dish.
Jonathan J. Baker
> I have a [very large amount] of cookie recipes and other baking
>fun that specify the use of shortening. My husband refuses to have it in
>the house, on the grounds that it is "a massive block of pure trans fats.
>What, are you trying to kill me?"
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
>such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
>versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
> Can anything? Successfully, I mean. Do Brits have shortening
>(artificial lard that it is)? If not, what do they use? I'm having some
>flashbacks to the corn syrup and pecan pie discussion from lo these many
>years ago. :->
Don't know about Brits, but my family (kosher) uses Crisco.
Long ago you couldn't get it in Israel, (25 years ago?), and my sister
wanted to bake pies, so when my grandmother's housekeeper went to visit
Israel with her church, she brought over a tub of Crisco.
- jon baker jjb...@panix.com <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker> -
--
Jonathan Baker | Hanuca, Xmas, & Saturnalia all begin on 25th of
jjb...@panix.com | the Winter Solstice Month. Coincidence?
Web page <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/>
Bernard Peek
<jjb...@panix.com> writes
>Don't know about Brits, but my family (kosher) uses Crisco.
>Long ago you couldn't get it in Israel, (25 years ago?), and my sister
>wanted to bake pies, so when my grandmother's housekeeper went to visit
>Israel with her church, she brought over a tub of Crisco.
I'm told that in the UK the best available shortening for making pastry
is Tomor kosher margarine. But I was told that before anyone had heard
of trans fats.
Morris M. Keesan
Lebovitz) wrote:
>The question I was trying to get at is whether decent pies could be
>ok (by kosher standards) with a meat meal.
I usually use just Crisco as the shortening in my pie crusts, and they
turn out fine.
--
Morris M. Keesan -- kee...@alum.bu.edu
Dorothy J Heydt
Morris M. Keesan <kee...@alum.bu.edu> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:38:08 +0000 (UTC), nan...@panix.com (Nancy
>Lebovitz) wrote:
>>The question I was trying to get at is whether decent pies could be
>>ok (by kosher standards) with a meat meal.
>
>I usually use just Crisco as the shortening in my pie crusts, and they
>turn out fine.
The original questition, however, was how one could cook while
NOT using Crisco, it being full of transfats.
joy beeson
Beltz-Decker)" <elo...@ripco.com> wrote:
> I seem to recall an article in Cook's Illustrated magazine about
> such thing, and butter cannot be substituted for shortening, nor vice
> versa, or so I seem to recall they said.
Odds are they said only that hydrogenated shortening
shouldn't be substituted for butter.
I stuck in the adjective because butter *is* shortening, as
are all other solid edible fats.
I never saw a recipe that wasn't better with butter.
Bacon grease is also a good substitute for lard, even in
sweet dishes. (But not burnt rancid bacon grease.)
Joy Beeson
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~dbeeson594/ROUGHSEW/ROUGH.HTM
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net
Morris M. Keesan
>I never saw a recipe that wasn't better with butter.
Butter does not improve the texture of pie crusts. I sometimes mix
butter with the hydrogenated vegetable shortening, for flavor, but the
texture is better without the butter.