The interminable political argument that swallowed rasff
Doug Wickstrom
don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
I regret that I've been taken in by the political discourse, and
I will no longer respond to such. Let whomever tell whatever
lies they choose, misrepresent whatever they want. I will be
kill-filing by thread, and killfiling participants in those
threads not because they necessarily offend, but because they are
boring. The art is long, life is short, and a-all tha-at
jaaaaaazz.
In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
My source doesn't do newsgroups, and got it from someone who
never touched the Internet.
--
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net>
"I always knew that I would see the first man on the moon. I never
dreamed that I would see the last." --Jerry Pournelle
Margaret Young
>Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
>don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
>arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
>a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
>rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
>
>I regret that I've been taken in by the political discourse, and
>I will no longer respond to such. Let whomever tell whatever
>lies they choose, misrepresent whatever they want. I will be
>kill-filing by thread, and killfiling participants in those
>threads not because they necessarily offend, but because they are
>boring. The art is long, life is short, and a-all tha-at
>jaaaaaazz.
>
>In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
>cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
>interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
>My source doesn't do newsgroups, and got it from someone who
>never touched the Internet.
Yes, I am interested--although I cannot tolerate wheat and find sugar 'evil', I
know many who do not agree and who would be thrilled to get such a recipe.
--
Margaret Young
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and the
faint smell of cat pee.
Cally Soukup
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:26:20 GMT, Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
>>cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
>>interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
>>My source doesn't do newsgroups, and got it from someone who
>>never touched the Internet.
> Yes, I am interested--although I cannot tolerate wheat and find sugar 'evil', I
> know many who do not agree and who would be thrilled to get such a recipe.
I'm interested, too, though I hardly ever bake. I'm especially
interested in getting away from the politics.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
David Bilek
>Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
>don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
>arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
>a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
>rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
>
A lot of them went to blogs where they, indeed, continue to post
interminably about politics... except without that pesky "equal
footing" thing that Usenet provides. How much more fun it is to
pontificate about politics when you are in charge!
-David
Petrea Mitchell
as the original poster.)
At Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:26:20 GMT,
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> strode forth and proclaimed:
> In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
> cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
> interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
Sure, I'm interested. Not that I know any vegans as far as I know, but
I'm intrigued by the engineering or chemical challenge of finding an all-
vegetable substitute that behaves like eggs for baking purposes.
--
/
Petrea Mitchell <|> <|> <pr...@m5p.com> <mit...@osm.com>
"Next on Oprah: Ambassadors who are involved with Shadows and the aides they
don't listen to." ---James Terman, B5 Conventional Wisdom Watch
Andrew Plotkin
>
> At Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:26:20 GMT,
> Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> strode forth and proclaimed:
>
> > In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
> > cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
> > interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
>
> Sure, I'm interested. Not that I know any vegans as far as I know, but
> I'm intrigued by the engineering or chemical challenge of finding an all-
> vegetable substitute that behaves like eggs for baking purposes.
I now have a jar of (high-pectin) apple preserves which I intend to
dedicate to this avenue of research.
(And another jar which I intend to spread on my (highly non-vegan)
biscuits and eat.)
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Doug Wickstrom
<10n6btj...@corp.supernews.com>
Petrea Mitchell <pr...@parkstreet.m5p.com> excited the ether to
say:
>At Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:26:20 GMT,
>Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> strode forth and proclaimed:
>
>> In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
>> cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
>> interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
>
>Sure, I'm interested. Not that I know any vegans as far as I know, but
>I'm intrigued by the engineering or chemical challenge of finding an all-
>vegetable substitute that behaves like eggs for baking purposes.
Here it is, courtesy of the late Alma Hegel, of rural Sheridan
County, and later of Bismarck, North Dakota:
GOOFY CAKE
Mix in ungreased cake pan:
3 cups flour
2 cups sugar
1 1/2 tsp. baking soda
5-6 tbsp. cocoa
1 tsp. salt
Add:
2 tbsp. vinegar
2 tsp. vanilla
3/4 cup salad oil
2 cups cold water
Mix thoroughly using a fork. Bake at 350 degrees for 35-40
minutes.
As far as I can tell, it's slight additional oil that makes up
for the eggs, and it's definitely not a low-cal item, but I vouch
for the cake being very good. Claudette believes in Hershey's
cocoa, but I think Ghiarardelli adds a frisson of extravagance.
For vegans, top with a non-dairy whipped topping. The rest of us
can use cream.
Unfortunately, I don't know what size pan to use; Claudette might
have been doubling the recipe when she was making if for our own
consumption. I would start with an 8x8 square, and if it looks
like it's getting out of hand, or pan, if you will, pour it into
a 9x13.
"Goofy" seems to describe it in several ways. But it does work,
and it is good.
--
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net>
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have
a tremendous impact on history." --Dan Quayle
Joel Polowin
> Sure, I'm interested. Not that I know any vegans as far as I know, but
> I'm intrigued by the engineering or chemical challenge of finding an all-
> vegetable substitute that behaves like eggs for baking purposes.
1 tbsp flax seeds ground with 1/4 c water in a blender for a few
minutes seems to work pretty well, replacing 1 egg. It's a bit
gritty from the hulls of the seeds. I think I've seen ground
flax seeds in health/bulk-food stores, which might give better
results.
--
Joel Polowin jpolow...@sympatico.ca but delete "XYZZy" from address
"If you show trophy fish in first act, then by third act you must
show that it is only red herring." -- Pavel Chekov
Joel Polowin
> 2 cups sugar
Note that some vegans avoid some forms of white sugar, as it's
often purified with charcoal made from animal bones.
Dorothy J Heydt
Joel Polowin <jpolow...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>
>> 2 cups sugar
>
>Note that some vegans avoid some forms of white sugar, as it's
>often purified with charcoal made from animal bones.
>
from the bees that produced it.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Mark Atwood
>>
> IIRC real vegans won't eat honey either, because it was stolen
> from the bees that produced it.
I am reminded of a flowchart I saw once, in a small indy feminist
fruits-nuts-and-flakes bookstore, which was tongue-in-cheek titled
"Dining with Dykes".
It was the process of getting a bunch of the people of the
shops-at-this-kind-of-store persuasion all together for lunch.
One of the decision boxes is "Is anyone vegan?"
On the "yes" line from that, the next decision box is labeled
"Are they whiny about it?".
There is no "no" line from that box.
--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
m...@pobox.com | you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra | http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus
David Friedman
Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
> don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
> arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
> a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
> rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
>
> I regret that I've been taken in by the political discourse, and
> I will no longer respond to such. Let whomever tell whatever
> lies they choose, misrepresent whatever they want. I will be
> kill-filing by thread, and killfiling participants in those
> threads not because they necessarily offend, but because they are
> boring. The art is long, life is short, and a-all tha-at
> jaaaaaazz.
>
> In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
> cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
> interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
> My source doesn't do newsgroups, and got it from someone who
> never touched the Internet.
I, on the other hand, have been having great fun making Anglo-Saxon
Lyres--I've just about finished the third, which is pretty close in
construction to the Sutton Hoo lyre. But I suppose that's for
rec.org.sca, not rasf.
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
Also remove .invalid
www.daviddfriedman.com
David Friedman
Petrea Mitchell <pr...@parkstreet.m5p.com> wrote:
> (Subject line changed as it may have scared off people who feel the same
> as the original poster.)
>
> At Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:26:20 GMT,
> Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> strode forth and proclaimed:
>
> > In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
> > cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
> > interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
>
> Sure, I'm interested. Not that I know any vegans as far as I know, but
> I'm intrigued by the engineering or chemical challenge of finding an all-
> vegetable substitute that behaves like eggs for baking purposes.
You thought "vegan" meant "vegetarian?" But this is rasf.
"Vegan" is "from Vega."
Wonder just how he got the recipe.
Laurie D. T. Mann
> Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
> don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
> arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
> a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
> rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
so high.
Laurie D. T. Mann
The Facts do Matter
http://www.thefactsdomatter.com
Lee Ratner
> In article <41733CF...@sympatico.ca>,
> Joel Polowin <jpolow...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >Doug Wickstrom wrote:
> >
> >> 2 cups sugar
> >
> >Note that some vegans avoid some forms of white sugar, as it's
> >often purified with charcoal made from animal bones.
> >
> IIRC real vegans won't eat honey either, because it was stolen
> from the bees that produced it.
>
are just weird and inconsistent. I had a professor in college who was
a vegetarian but felt it was alright to kill animals to turn their
hides into leather.
Joel Rosenberg
Reminds me of Elayne Boosler's comment about fur vs. leather.
"Apparently, it's okay to kill the animal if you shave them and turn
them inside out after."
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Rosenberg
http://www.ellegon.com/homepage.phtml
(Reverse disclaimer: actually, everything I do or say is utterly
supported by Ellegon, Inc., my employer. Even when I'm wrong.)
Joel Rosenberg
The stakes are always high. Last time around, if things had gone
differently, we could have had Al Gore in the White House on September
11, 2001 -- and whether or not you think that would have been a good
thing (I very much don't; others certainly disagree) it mattered a
whole lot.
David G. Bell
<7j26n0984dfnq46n9...@4ax.com>
nims...@comcast.net "Doug Wickstrom" wrote:
> Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
> don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
> arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
> a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
> rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
>
> I regret that I've been taken in by the political discourse, and
> I will no longer respond to such. Let whomever tell whatever
> lies they choose, misrepresent whatever they want. I will be
> kill-filing by thread, and killfiling participants in those
> threads not because they necessarily offend, but because they are
> boring. The art is long, life is short, and a-all tha-at
> jaaaaaazz.
Thanks for those responses you have made. At least you have added
something from relevant personal experience.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."
David G. Bell
jpolow...@sympatico.ca "Joel Polowin" wrote:
> Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>
> > 2 cups sugar
>
> Note that some vegans avoid some forms of white sugar, as it's
> often purified with charcoal made from animal bones.
It's more than twenty years since my guided tour of a sugar processing
plant, but my slight recollection makes me a little sceptical. Lime, in
vast quantities. yes. Charcoal? But I notice you said "some forms of
white sugar".
It still could be urban legend, but maybe some foundation to it.
Michael Kube-McDowell
left the following thoughtprints where they could be seen:
>"Laurie D. T. Mann" <spamc...@dpsinfo.com> writes:
>
>> > Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>> > Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
>> > don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
>> > arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
>> > a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
>> > rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
>>
>> Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>> a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>> so high.
>>
>>
>> Laurie D. T. Mann
>> The Facts do Matter
>> http://www.thefactsdomatter.com
>>
>
>The stakes are always high. Last time around, if things had gone
>differently, we could have had Al Gore in the White House on September
>11, 2001 -- and whether or not you think that would have been a good
>thing (I very much don't; others certainly disagree) it mattered a
>whole lot.
Can you unpack your own feelings on the matter a little bit, Joel? I continue
to wonder why you (not anybody--you in particular) want these guys in charge,
and maybe there's a glimmer of enlightenment awaiting me within. Is there some
reason you think that Gore was particularly ill-suited to respond well on
September 11 and thereafter? Did you fear that Gore would have, I don't know,
cut Israel adrift to placate the Muslim world?
(I agree that it mattered a whole lot in that we would have been vastly less
likely to start this bloody and costly Iraq [mis]adventure under Gore. And
even if I am wrong on that, there's no reason I can see to think that a Gore
administration wouldn't have done a better job of listening to the
professionals.)
--
Michael P. Kube-McDowell, author and packrat
SF and other bad habits: http://k-mac.home.att.net
Cally Soukup
> I, on the other hand, have been having great fun making Anglo-Saxon
> Lyres--I've just about finished the third, which is pretty close in
> construction to the Sutton Hoo lyre. But I suppose that's for
> rec.org.sca, not rasf.
I know nothing at all about Anglo-Saxon Lyres. What are they made
from? Do we have any idea how they were tuned?
Cally Soukup
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>>
>> IIRC real vegans won't eat honey either, because it was stolen
>> from the bees that produced it.
> I am reminded of a flowchart I saw once, in a small indy feminist
> fruits-nuts-and-flakes bookstore, which was tongue-in-cheek titled
> "Dining with Dykes".
> It was the process of getting a bunch of the people of the
> shops-at-this-kind-of-store persuasion all together for lunch.
> One of the decision boxes is "Is anyone vegan?"
> On the "yes" line from that, the next decision box is labeled
> "Are they whiny about it?".
> There is no "no" line from that box.
Which is a funny bit in a cartoon, but for the record, the (four?)
vegans I know and have eaten with (one might just be a strict
vegetarian) have not been at all whiny about it. Even though my
dietary habits include lots of meat and butter, which makes logistics a
bit interesting.
Dave Weingart
>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>so high.
Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Loyalty oaths. Secret searches. No-fly
mailto:phyd...@liii.com lists. Detention without legal recourse.
http://www.weingart.net/ Who won the cold war, again?
ICQ 57055207 -- Politicklers
A.C.
> They also believe that dairy is rape. Some animal rights people
> are just weird and inconsistent. I had a professor in college who was
> a vegetarian but felt it was alright to kill animals to turn their
> hides into leather.
If he was a vegetarian for say, health reasons, I don't see the inconsistency.
David Dyer-Bennet
> "Laurie D. T. Mann" <spamc...@dpsinfo.com> writes:
>
>> > Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>> > Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
>> > don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
>> > arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
>> > a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
>> > rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
>>
>> Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>> a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>> so high.
>>
>>
>> Laurie D. T. Mann
>> The Facts do Matter
>> http://www.thefactsdomatter.com
> The stakes are always high. Last time around, if things had gone
> differently, we could have had Al Gore in the White House on September
> 11, 2001 -- and whether or not you think that would have been a good
> thing (I very much don't; others certainly disagree) it mattered a
> whole lot.
The stakes are always fairly high, but they still vary over a huge
range.
And since the best you can do is invoke 9/11, which is frequently
described as an unprecedented attack, it seems to me that there aren't
very many times when it matters that much who was in the White House.
And, of course, most of us didn't see it coming. However, it does
seem that the incoming Bush administration shoved aside all the
warnings and plans on the topic from the outgoing Clinton
administration. This is but one piece of evidence that makes me
strongly believe things would have gone far better with Gore in
power.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
David Dyer-Bennet
I'm guessing you had some evidence beyond vegetarianism that the
professor was an animal rights person...because on its own that's not
very good evidence. Lots of people are vegetarian because they think
it's healthier for them, not for the benefit of the animals.
I might add that none of the vegans I know believe any of the things
various people have claimed vegans, or "real vegans" believe.
(And then there are the alleged ones who are vegetarian because they
hate plants and enjoy killing and eating them, but I've never actually
met one.)
Del Cotter
David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nospam.com> said:
> Doug Wickstrom <nims...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
>> cake that is mixed up right in the ungreased pan, if anyone is
>> interested, and I don't know if it has ever been posted before.
>> My source doesn't do newsgroups, and got it from someone who
>> never touched the Internet.
>
>I, on the other hand, have been having great fun making Anglo-Saxon
>Lyres--I've just about finished the third, which is pretty close in
>construction to the Sutton Hoo lyre. But I suppose that's for
>rec.org.sca, not rasf.
So instead of being a Vegan, you're a Lyran?
--
Del Cotter http://del_c.livejournal.com/
Send email to del2 at branta dot demon dot co dot uk
Del Cotter
Lee Ratner <czar...@aol.com> said:
>Some animal rights people are just weird and inconsistent. I had a
>professor in college who was a vegetarian but felt it was alright to
>kill animals to turn their hides into leather.
There doesn't have to be any inconsistency in your professor's position:
not all vegetarians are taking a moral stand against killing animals,
some are just doing for the diet. I feel sure you would have said if
your professor was an animal rights person.
Karl Johanson
> In the meantime, I have a wizard recipe for a vegan chocolate
> cake
I didn't know we'd made any contact with Vega, let alone got recipes from
their wizards. Cool.
Actually, sounds like a good story. "The Cake Wizards of Vega." Or maybe,
"What Can You Say About Vegan Chocolate Wizard Cake?" Then maybe a sequel,
"Vegan Wizards II: The Cake Wars!"
In this episode, Buck Rogers is trapped on a planet of desperate women with
a secret recipe!
Karl Johanson
"Cakes... Why does it always have to be cakes?"
Karl Johanson
> Sure, I'm interested. Not that I know any vegans as far as I know, but
> I'm intrigued by the engineering or chemical challenge of finding an all-
> vegetable substitute that behaves like eggs for baking purposes.
Dunno. I do want to go fix myself a cheese omlet now though.
Karl Johanson
Karl Johanson
> They also believe that dairy is rape. Some animal rights people
> are just weird and inconsistent. I had a professor in college who was
> a vegetarian but felt it was alright to kill animals to turn their
> hides into leather.
They may have been vegetarian for dietary reasons.
Karl Johanson
Joel Rosenberg
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:18:37 GMT, Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> carefully
> left the following thoughtprints where they could be seen:
>
> >"Laurie D. T. Mann" <spamc...@dpsinfo.com> writes:
> >
> >> > Doug Wickstrom wrote:
> >> > Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
> >> > don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
> >> > arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
> >> > a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
> >> > rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
> >>
> >> Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
> >> a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
> >> so high.
> >>
> >>
> >> Laurie D. T. Mann
> >> The Facts do Matter
> >> http://www.thefactsdomatter.com
> >>
> >
> >The stakes are always high. Last time around, if things had gone
> >differently, we could have had Al Gore in the White House on September
> >11, 2001 -- and whether or not you think that would have been a good
> >thing (I very much don't; others certainly disagree) it mattered a
> >whole lot.
>
> Can you unpack your own feelings on the matter a little bit, Joel?
Sure.
I continue
> to wonder why you (not anybody--you in particular) want these guys in charge,
> and maybe there's a glimmer of enlightenment awaiting me within.
I doubt it. I'm willing to explain what I think and feel; I'm not
willing to try to persuade people.
Bush probably closed the deal with me on September 20, 2001. You can
find the transcript at
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/gen.bush.transcript/, among
other places. (Bush wouldn't have been my first choice; I'd have
rather had McCain, who was in the running, or Harry Truman, who, being
dead and all, wasn't available.
(But of the three guys who were on the ticket, no question. My vote
for Bush in 2000 was a protest vote against Gore -- there was no
question in my mind that Minnesota was going to go for Gore.)
I had doubts about whether or not he was up to the task at hand.
Not true this time; I think he's the best guy around for the job,
including McCain. If Bush were to win by one vote in Minnesota
(barely possible, although vanishingly unlikely), and Minnesota's ten
electoral votes going for Bush (I'd put it a about 55-45 that they
will; the effects of the Republicans actually putting up a statewide
fight is liable to be worth quite a few votes), and Minnesota were to
push the President over that 270 (again, unlikely -- I think he's
going to win with over 300 electoral votes), I'm confident that I'll
have made the right decision.
Is there some
> reason you think that Gore was particularly ill-suited to respond well on
> September 11 and thereafter?
Yup. I think that he was part of an administration that clearly
underreacted to both the first Islamist WTC attack, and other Islamist
terrorist incidents and quasi-terrorist incident (I don't think that
the Cole bombing is, technically, a terrorist incident -- it just
should have, IMHO, been treated as one for most practical purposes).
I think that there's a minimal chance he would have ended the Taliban,
and zero chance that he would have taken on Iraq before the
fast-failing sanctions failed further. He was part of an
Administration that believed, after all, that Iraq had an active WMD
program, that it was just a matter of time until Saddam had a full
panoply of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons available -- and
which doggedly went back to the UN for more of what the UN does,
punctuating that with a few tentative strikes that did little to
dissuade Iraqi misbehavior.
I don't think Al Gore -- or Kerry -- are dumb guys, really. I think
they're dangerously wrong on big issues. I think that they believe
that clever agreements are a substitute for blunt action, rather than
a supplement, and that their Colin Powell-like obsession with
agreements and summits and coalitions all too often blinds them to
brutal necessities -- I think of them as being just a few neurons shy
of turning into Jimmy Carter.
Did you fear that Gore would have, I don't know,
> cut Israel adrift to placate the Muslim world?
I'm much more concerned about that with Kerry -- do you know of any of
the UN's anti-Israel declarations that he's condemned? (I can think
of several that the Bush administration vetoed.)
I think, as his post-September 11th writings on the subject showed,
that Gore thinks that being a smart guy who can put together clever
phrases and agreements matters a whole lot. I think he's wrong, just
as I think that the Bush administration was wrong if they thought that
UN resolutions would do any good in light of the clear French (among
others) insistence that the last last chance would be followed by yet
another last last chance. (I think that the wiser people in the
Administration knew better, and quite brilliantly deployed Powell to
do the one thing that he's really good at: speechifying.)
Joel Rosenberg
> Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> writes:
>
> > "Laurie D. T. Mann" <spamc...@dpsinfo.com> writes:
> >
> >> > Doug Wickstrom wrote:
> >> > Something happened to this newsgroup during my fafiation. I
> >> > don't know when and what it was, but the interminable political
> >> > arguments of rasfw seem to have immigrated to fill the void, and
> >> > a lot of people whose writing I genuinely enjoyed, even when I
> >> > rarely agreed with it, have emigrated to parts unknown.
> >>
> >> Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
> >> a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
> >> so high.
> >>
> >>
> >> Laurie D. T. Mann
> >> The Facts do Matter
> >> http://www.thefactsdomatter.com
>
> > The stakes are always high. Last time around, if things had gone
> > differently, we could have had Al Gore in the White House on September
> > 11, 2001 -- and whether or not you think that would have been a good
> > thing (I very much don't; others certainly disagree) it mattered a
> > whole lot.
>
> The stakes are always fairly high, but they still vary over a huge
> range.
>
> And since the best you can do is invoke 9/11, which is frequently
> described as an unprecedented attack,
Then it's frequently described wrongly; it wasn't, after all the first
Islamofascist attack on Americans, nor even the first such attack on
US soil against Americans, nor even the first such attack on the WTC.
Nor, for that matter, was it the first time that a madman had tried to
ram a large-body jet into a building in the US, as you know.
It was an unprecedented result on US soil since, at least, Pearl
Harbor.
I'm not sure if that's the "best" I can do, even given that.
Marilee J. Layman
Weingart) wrote:
>One day in Teletubbyland, spamc...@dpsinfo.com said:
>>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>>so high.
>
>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
--
Marilee J. Layman
G.W. Bush says "results count!"
That's why I'm voting for Kerry
David Friedman
Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
> David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nospam.com> wrote in article
> <ddfr-79E72F.2...@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>:
>
> > I, on the other hand, have been having great fun making Anglo-Saxon
> > Lyres--I've just about finished the third, which is pretty close in
> > construction to the Sutton Hoo lyre. But I suppose that's for
> > rec.org.sca, not rasf.
>
> I know nothing at all about Anglo-Saxon Lyres. What are they made
> from?
Wood, mostly. Strung with gut, at least sometimes. The main two pieces
rivetted together with metal rivets, at least on the Sutton Hoo lyre,
and the sound board nailed on.
> Do we have any idea how they were tuned?
Yes.
The main source I'm working from is an article by a friend of mine,
webbed at:
http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~priestdo/lyre.html
which includes information on tuning.
I also have a book chapter by the person who reconstructed the Sutton
Hoo lyre (he is also the person who reconstructed the Sutton Hoo harp,
but I think the second time he got it right). My first two were based
mostly on Dov's article, the third mostly on the information on the
Sutton Hoo lyre.
They are surprisingly easy to make, and the family musicians (of which I
am not one) think they have a surprisingly good voice for such simple
instruments. That includes the miniature I made in the process of
learning how to do it, which is about half size. Great fun.
My current puzzle is why nobody seems to have invented the double lyre,
analogous to a double harp. Build the same instrument, put strings on
both sides, and you have (according to my daughter) enough notes
(twelve) to play most song melodies.
As my be obvious, I'm not a musician. But I like making things.
Harry Payne
>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:19 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
>Weingart) wrote:
>
>>One day in Teletubbyland, spamc...@dpsinfo.com said:
>>>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>>>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>>>so high.
>>
>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>
>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>
figures and falling rapidly.
--
Harry
Joel Polowin
> On Sunday, in article <41733CF...@sympatico.ca>
> jpolow...@sympatico.ca "Joel Polowin" wrote:
>>Note that some vegans avoid some forms of white sugar, as it's
>>often purified with charcoal made from animal bones.
>
> It's more than twenty years since my guided tour of a sugar processing
> plant, but my slight recollection makes me a little sceptical. Lime, in
> vast quantities. yes. Charcoal? But I notice you said "some forms of
> white sugar".
>
> It still could be urban legend, but maybe some foundation to it.
See http://www.lantic.ca/english/faq/ -- Lantic Sugar is a major
Canadian sugar manufacturer. "Bone char is not used in the
production of sugar from sugar beets. However, bone char is used
for decolorizing cane sugar syrups."
--
Joel Polowin jpolow...@sympatico.ca but delete "XYZZy" from address
"If you show trophy fish in first act, then by third act you must
show that it is only red herring." -- Pavel Chekov
Joel Polowin
> It was the process of getting a bunch of the people of the
> shops-at-this-kind-of-store persuasion all together for lunch.
>
> One of the decision boxes is "Is anyone vegan?"
>
> On the "yes" line from that, the next decision box is labeled
> "Are they whiny about it?".
>
> There is no "no" line from that box.
I don't know about "whiny". I will allow that being repeatedly
served food which allegedly conforms to a dietary restriction,
but which turns out not to conform, can eventually lead to some
peevishness.
I've pretty much given up on going out to lunch with my colleagues
since I'm tired of finding bits of meat in supposedly-vegetarian
pizzas, stir-fries, etc. The local restaurants which can handle
groups of a dozen or so people have demonstrated that they don't
meet my standards of kitchen hygiene. So I now have a firm
policy that unless there's a strong social reason, I don't go
with a group of people to a restaurant unless I'm reasonably
sure I can get something to eat there. Maybe that makes me
"whiny" or "controlling". I definitely miss some social events.
I live with it.
Far too many times, I've been in the socially-difficult
situation of being presented by a surprise "vegetarian" dish
prepared by someone who doesn't know what s/he's doing. When
I insist on knowing what's in it before I try it, I eventually
learn that it's made with chicken stock, or gelatine, or
Worcestershire sauce, or something like that, and I politely
decline to eat it. And then the presenter gets all huffy because
I've refused the gift. What am I supposed to do?
Dave Weingart
>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>
>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
I bet I had more rain and thunder than you did, so neener neener.
Cally Soukup
[Anglo-Saxon Lyres]
> They are surprisingly easy to make, and the family musicians (of which I
> am not one) think they have a surprisingly good voice for such simple
> instruments. That includes the miniature I made in the process of
> learning how to do it, which is about half size. Great fun.
> My current puzzle is why nobody seems to have invented the double lyre,
> analogous to a double harp. Build the same instrument, put strings on
> both sides, and you have (according to my daughter) enough notes
> (twelve) to play most song melodies.
> As my be obvious, I'm not a musician. But I like making things.
Any chance of a picture of your lyres on a web page? A sound file would
be interesting, too, but, of course, more complicated on your end.
Keith F. Lynch
> I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
And an excellent party it was, too.
When I got home from Capclave, and caught up on my sleep, I found I
was over 800 rasff posts behind. Instead of slowly catching up, as I
did after Noreascon, I deleted everything mentioning "Bush" or "Kerry"
or "Republican" or "Democrat" or "election" (after making sure I
didn't miss any responses to any of my own messages). That got rid
of more than half the postings. Sigh. I'll be glad when the election
is over.
I'll resume posting once I've read all the messages that remain.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Karen Lofstrom
> Far too many times, I've been in the socially-difficult
> situation of being presented by a surprise "vegetarian" dish
> prepared by someone who doesn't know what s/he's doing. When
> I insist on knowing what's in it before I try it, I eventually
> learn that it's made with chicken stock, or gelatine, or
> Worcestershire sauce, or something like that, and I politely
> decline to eat it. And then the presenter gets all huffy because
> I've refused the gift. What am I supposed to do?
Don't say anything and move it around on your plate so that it looks like
it's been eaten.
I was originally going to type "eat it and smile" and then remembered my
adventures overseas, where I was well-known as a picky eater. Declining
treats like baked pig skin, sea urchin guts, and live fish. It's hard to
eat something that makes you want to vomit.
But if it's just a matter of principle, rather than overwhelming disgust,
I'd suggest that kindness to others is also a principle well worth
observing. Buddhist monks are supposed to eat anything that's put in
their begging bowl and show gratitude. Even if they're vegetarians in
their monasteries.
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
----------------------------------------------------------
Um, mee too, add me to the list, please send me the n3kk1d
jp3gs of the 5hr0ud 0v tur1n. -- wednsday
Joel Polowin
> In article <41744F1B...@sympatico.ca>, Joel Polowin wrote:
>>Far too many times, I've been in the socially-difficult
>>situation of being presented by a surprise "vegetarian" dish
>>prepared by someone who doesn't know what s/he's doing. When
>>I insist on knowing what's in it before I try it, I eventually
>>learn that it's made with chicken stock, or gelatine, or
>>Worcestershire sauce, or something like that, and I politely
>>decline to eat it. And then the presenter gets all huffy because
>>I've refused the gift. What am I supposed to do?
>
> Don't say anything and move it around on your plate so that it looks like
> it's been eaten.
Not an option if I'm being presented with a bowl full of whatever-it-is
and a spoon, with the injunction to "try this" while the presenter
hovers to watch my reaction. If it's a matter of having several
things on the plate, I simply don't take any of whatever-it-is.
(I ran into that one at a Thanksgiving pot-luck; a dish of vegetarian
stuffing was being served with the same spoon that was being used
to serve the chicken, so had got bits of chicken into it. So I
filled my plate with other things instead.)
> I was originally going to type "eat it and smile" and then remembered my
> adventures overseas, where I was well-known as a picky eater. Declining
> treats like baked pig skin, sea urchin guts, and live fish. It's hard to
> eat something that makes you want to vomit.
>
> But if it's just a matter of principle, rather than overwhelming disgust,
> I'd suggest that kindness to others is also a principle well worth
> observing.
It's a matter of extreme distaste as well as of principle.
Marilee J. Layman
<mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:19 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
>Weingart) wrote:
>
>>One day in Teletubbyland, spamc...@dpsinfo.com said:
>>>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>>>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>>>so high.
>>
>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>
>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
With help from Cathy Doyle and Mary Kay Kare, I should say!
Marilee J. Layman
Weingart) wrote:
>One day in Teletubbyland, Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> said:
>>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>>
>>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>
>I bet I had more rain and thunder than you did, so neener neener.
We had enough rain and thunder that the lifeguard closed the indoor
pool.
Lee Ratner
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
> Lee Ratner <czar...@aol.com> said:
>
> >Some animal rights people are just weird and inconsistent. I had a
> >professor in college who was a vegetarian but felt it was alright to
> >kill animals to turn their hides into leather.
>
> There doesn't have to be any inconsistency in your professor's position:
> not all vegetarians are taking a moral stand against killing animals,
> some are just doing for the diet. I feel sure you would have said if
> your professor was an animal rights person.
He actually said it was somewhat immoral to eat meet, is
vegentarianism was partly ethical in nature not just a health choice.
Chris Malme
@sympatico.ca:
> Far too many times, I've been in the socially-difficult
> situation of being presented by a surprise "vegetarian" dish
> prepared by someone who doesn't know what s/he's doing. When
> I insist on knowing what's in it before I try it, I eventually
> learn that it's made with chicken stock, or gelatine, or
> Worcestershire sauce, or something like that, and I politely
> decline to eat it. And then the presenter gets all huffy because
> I've refused the gift. What am I supposed to do?
Be patient with them, as I'm sure you are, but also be firm, and explain
what they have done wrong. If they still get huffy, that is their problem
not yours.
I'm fairly comfortable about cooking for vegetarians, having done it off
and on, for friends (and an ex-gf) for years. However, I'll always try to
cover my bases on what (and how) I am going cook, in advance, as I find
it puts my guest at their ease. If I ever overlooked something, I would
want to know about it.
Also, if I am cooking a meal for mixed company, I try not to go down the
"here's the food..... oh... and this is for the vegetarian" path. It
makes more work for the cook, can isolate the vegetarian(s) from the
meal, and if not policed properly the non-vegetarians have their food and
"a little bit" of the veggie dish, with the result that the veggie
portion gets smaller, and smaller, and serving spoons from the meat will
contaminate the vegetables.
Usually if one person is dining vegetarian, then I cook vegetarian for
everyone. Most meateaters will eat my mushroom lasagne, and not even
realise there is no meat in it. If I feel I have to provide meat (some
people *are* whiney), then the meat is a side dish, usually prepared in
advanced, and made available in the kitchen (not the table) for anyone
who wants some ("Meat chili is on the hob - use the ladle by the cooker"
or "I have some lamb cutlets in the oven, does anyone want me to fetch
them one?"). However, if I think I can get away with 100% vegetarian, I
will.
I don't remember having tried cooking vegan. If I had to, I would want to
talk to the vegan in advance, and would probably shop completely for the
meal, not using anything from my larder, to make sure I think about every
ingredient. I'd probably enjoy it as a bit of a challenge.
Cashew cream, anybody?
--
Chris
Minstrel's Hall of Filk - http://www.filklore.com/
Filklore Music Store - http://www.filklore.co.uk/
To contact me, please use form at http://www.filklore.com/contact.phtml
Irina Rempt
(see_si...@filklore.co.uk) wrote:
> Cashew cream, anybody?
Ooh, yes!
Irina (only intermittently a vegan)
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/foundobjects/index.cgi Latest: 12-Oct-2004
Nancy Lebovitz
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>> I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>
>And an excellent party it was, too.
>
>When I got home from Capclave, and caught up on my sleep, I found I
>was over 800 rasff posts behind. Instead of slowly catching up, as I
>did after Noreascon, I deleted everything mentioning "Bush" or "Kerry"
>or "Republican" or "Democrat" or "election" (after making sure I
>didn't miss any responses to any of my own messages). That got rid
>of more than half the postings. Sigh. I'll be glad when the election
>is over.
I'm sick of the damned thing (and it's not going to be over till
people get bored with arguing about whether the votes were counted
honestly--even cryonics will not save you), but I don't seem to
be able to stop following it.
--
--
Nancy Lebovitz http://www.nancybuttons.com
"We've tamed the lightning and taught sand to give error messages."
http://livejournal.com/users/nancylebov
Philip Chee
> I've discovered "Ragnarok Online" and my spare time is in negative
> figures and falling rapidly.
While doing a google search I noticed that the character designs on the
official Ragnarok websites around the world (US, Europe, India,
Malaysia, China) are subtly different. Perhaps tuned to local
sensitivities, or perhaps just random variations by the local graphics
designers employed?
Phil
--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]ACRONYM: Abbreviated Coded Rendition Of Name Yielding Meaning
* TagZilla 0.052
Dave Weingart
>everyone. Most meateaters will eat my mushroom lasagne, and not even
>realise there is no meat in it. If I feel I have to provide meat (some
Does this include, say, Teddy or Phil? ;)
Dave Weingart
>We had enough rain and thunder that the lifeguard closed the indoor
>pool.
The *indoor* pool?
(Not, I assume, from the rain).
Michael Kube-McDowell
carefully left the following thoughtprints where they could be seen:
>In article <cl1psc$6s6$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>>> I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>>
>>And an excellent party it was, too.
>>
>>When I got home from Capclave, and caught up on my sleep, I found I
>>was over 800 rasff posts behind. Instead of slowly catching up, as I
>>did after Noreascon, I deleted everything mentioning "Bush" or "Kerry"
>>or "Republican" or "Democrat" or "election" (after making sure I
>>didn't miss any responses to any of my own messages). That got rid
>>of more than half the postings. Sigh. I'll be glad when the election
>>is over.
>
>I'm sick of the damned thing (and it's not going to be over till
>people get bored with arguing about whether the votes were counted
>honestly--even cryonics will not save you), but I don't seem to
>be able to stop following it.
I was trying my best to stay out of it, and doing pretty well until a week or
two ago. But I kept experiencing this strong impulse to pull over to the curb
when I see a Bush-Cheney yard sign, go up to the front door, and plaintively
ask whoever answers "Why?" I ended up having the same incredulous reaction to
posts from Bush's boosters here. (The answers, alas, have been so depressing
that I had to go out yesterday and get a Kerry-Edwards sign for my own
yard--first time I've ever done that.)
--
Michael P. Kube-McDowell, author and packrat
SF and other bad habits: http://k-mac.home.att.net
joy beeson
"Goofy Cake" sounds very like "Wacky Cake" and "Crazy Cake"
-- but I *think* that both of those had eggs.
"Soldier Boy Cake", on the other hand, didn't. But I can't
remember where I saw the recipe.
Joy Beeson
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net
Randolph Fritz
> In article <cl1psc$6s6$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>>> I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>>
>>And an excellent party it was, too.
>>
>>When I got home from Capclave, and caught up on my sleep, I found I
>>was over 800 rasff posts behind. Instead of slowly catching up, as I
>>did after Noreascon, I deleted everything mentioning "Bush" or "Kerry"
>>or "Republican" or "Democrat" or "election" (after making sure I
>>didn't miss any responses to any of my own messages). That got rid
>>of more than half the postings. Sigh. I'll be glad when the election
>>is over.
>
> I'm sick of the damned thing (and it's not going to be over till
> people get bored with arguing about whether the votes were counted
> honestly--even cryonics will not save you), but I don't seem to
> be able to stop following it.
Me, I feel like a mouse watching an eagle and looking for a place to
hide.
Randolph
Randolph Fritz
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:51:20 GMT, na...@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz)
>>
>>people get bored with arguing about whether the votes were counted
>>honestly--even cryonics will not save you), but I don't seem to
>>be able to stop following it.
>
> I was trying my best to stay out of it, and doing pretty well until
> a week or two ago. But I kept experiencing this strong impulse to
> pull over to the curb when I see a Bush-Cheney yard sign, go up to
> the front door, and plaintively ask whoever answers "Why?" I ended
> up having the same incredulous reaction to posts from Bush's
> boosters here. (The answers, alas, have been so depressing that I
> had to go out yesterday and get a Kerry-Edwards sign for my own
> yard--first time I've ever done that.)
>
Designed my first-ever political poster & decided if I put it in my
window someone would smash the window.
Randolph
Mark Jones
> I was trying my best to stay out of it, and doing pretty well until a week or
> two ago. But I kept experiencing this strong impulse to pull over to the curb
> when I see a Bush-Cheney yard sign, go up to the front door, and plaintively
> ask whoever answers "Why?" I ended up having the same incredulous reaction to
> posts from Bush's boosters here. (The answers, alas, have been so depressing
> that I had to go out yesterday and get a Kerry-Edwards sign for my own
> yard--first time I've ever done that.)
I feel the same way about the Kerry supporters. It's hard to understand
how anyone could possibly support that guy, though clearly lots of
people do.
Robert Sneddon
<sin...@pacifier.com> writes
>I feel the same way about the Kerry supporters. It's hard to
>understand how anyone could possibly support that guy, though clearly
>lots of people do.
He is the alternative to a proven lazy incompetent fool. He may not be
the best alternativee but there is no-one else in the ring that can
become President this time around. The people that support him support
him in part because the alternative is four more years.
What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
Bush voters this time around? His consistency (a figment of his spin
machine)? His decisiveness (leading an Iraqi nationbuilding adventure
that is costing blood and money and resulting in a reenactment of
Stalingrad)? His economic nous (American is now over 7 trillion dollars
in debt, and yesterday's auction of US Treasury bonds was noticeably
given a miss by many of the foreign banks who usually bail out the US
government)? What?
--
Email me via nojay (at) nojay (dot) fsnet (dot) co (dot) uk
This address no longer accepts HTML posts.
Robert Sneddon
Alan Braggins
>One day in Teletubbyland, Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> said:
>> Most meateaters will eat my mushroom lasagne, and not even
>>realise there is no meat in it. If I feel I have to provide meat (some
>
>Does this include, say, Teddy or Phil? ;)
One friend solved that one with "<vegetarian> - mushrooms in cream sauce.
Phil - beef. Everybody else - beef stroganoff."
I think the trickiest combination I've dealt with was one vegan guest and
one who wouldn't eat garlic or mushrooms. I've been out for a meal at a
con with a group looking for a restaurant that would cope with a vegetarian,
an observant Jew, and someone gluten intolerent, among others.
We ended up at Pizza Hut, with some people having baked potatoes.
Alan Braggins
"He's not Bush" seems to be good enough for many people. I don't expect
everyone to agree with it being enough, but it's hard to not understand
the point of view.
Tim McDaniel
Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:
>serving spoons from the meat will contaminate the vegetables.
*puzzled look* Why would one footman take a serving utensil from
another footman?
--
Marie Antoinette; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com
Mark Jones
> In article <10nafik...@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Jones
> <sin...@pacifier.com> writes
>
>> I feel the same way about the Kerry supporters. It's hard to
>> understand how anyone could possibly support that guy, though clearly
>> lots of people do.
>
>
> He is the alternative to a proven lazy incompetent fool.
Assuming you believe that.
> He may not be
> the best alternativee but there is no-one else in the ring that can
> become President this time around. The people that support him support
> him in part because the alternative is four more years.
And some of the people who support Bush do so because he's the
alternative to Kerry, who shows every sign of making Jimmy Carter's
Presidency look positively heroic by comparison.
> What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
> Bush voters this time around?
He's the alternative to a proven do-nothing clown with a 20 year record
of being consistently wrong on military and defense issues, but (perhaps
fortunately, if he wins) also has a 20 year record of accomplishing
little or nothing.
Dave Weingart
>I think the trickiest combination I've dealt with was one vegan guest and
>one who wouldn't eat garlic or mushrooms. I've been out for a meal at a
>con with a group looking for a restaurant that would cope with a vegetarian,
>an observant Jew, and someone gluten intolerent, among others.
>We ended up at Pizza Hut, with some people having baked potatoes.
That sounds awfully familiar.
Said Dave who's been out for dinner with people who are gluten intolerant,
keeps some variant of kosher, and knows people who are deathly allergic
to mushrooms.
Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
ooops, keyboard goofed again
>
>1/c cup shortening (bacon grease will work)
That's 1/2 cup.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Robert Sneddon
<sin...@pacifier.com> writes
>> What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
>>Bush voters this time around?
>
>He's the alternative to a proven do-nothing clown
BCCI is one big feather in his cap.
> with a 20 year record of being consistently wrong on military and
>defense issues,
> but (perhaps fortunately, if he wins) also has a 20 year record of
>accomplishing little or nothing.
Bush is a do-nothing clown? There are nearly a thousand American troops
dead and buried because of his delusions about Iraq, and you want four
more years? The Government's credit cards are maxed out and you want
four more years? Jobs are disappearing and you want four more years?
It's time for little Timmy to go take a nap and let the adults take
over again.
Del Cotter
Lee Ratner <czar...@aol.com> said:
>Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> >Some animal rights people are just weird and inconsistent. I had a
>> >professor in college who was a vegetarian but felt it was alright to
>> >kill animals to turn their hides into leather.
>>
>> There doesn't have to be any inconsistency in your professor's position:
>> not all vegetarians are taking a moral stand against killing animals,
>> some are just doing for the diet. I feel sure you would have said if
>> your professor was an animal rights person.
>
> He actually said it was somewhat immoral to eat meet, is
>vegentarianism was partly ethical in nature not just a health choice.
Thank you, that was the missing piece.
--
Del Cotter http://del_c.livejournal.com/
Send email to del2 at branta dot demon dot co dot uk
Del Cotter
>What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
>Bush voters this time around?
>His economic nous (American is now over 7 trillion dollars in debt)?
7.38 trillion, I believe, which is the legal limit of borrowing. Yes,
folks, the United States of America has officially maxed out all its
credit cards, it cannot borrow another cent, it's got to balance its
budget *right now*. Which is going to make the next few months
interesting.
What was that about party of fiscal responsibility?
(and how much play has this had on the TV news?)
David Friedman
Mark Jones <sin...@pacifier.com> wrote:
I agree with both of you.
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
Also remove .invalid
www.daviddfriedman.com
Charlton Wilbur
CM> Also, if I am cooking a meal for mixed company, I try not to
CM> go down the "here's the food..... oh... and this is for the
CM> vegetarian" path. It makes more work for the cook, can isolate
CM> the vegetarian(s) from the meal, and if not policed properly
CM> the non-vegetarians have their food and "a little bit" of the
CM> veggie dish, with the result that the veggie portion gets
CM> smaller, and smaller, and serving spoons from the meat will
CM> contaminate the vegetables.
Immediately after college I found myself living in an apartment with
an enormous kitchen, centrally located for all my friends. Some were
vegetarian; most were not. The solution was to have frequent potluck
dinners; I would cook something vegetarian, my roommate would prepare
a vegetarian dessert, and everyone would bring something. Extremely
picky eaters were expected to bring something they liked, with the
implication that they might not like everything else there. When we
sat down to eat, there was a brief bit of identification of all the
foods. There was always enough to go around, and people frequently
traded leftovers.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect that because some of the
guests are vegetarians, all will eat meat-free foods -- at least not
any more than it is reasonable to expect that because some of the
guests are meat-eaters, that all of the guests will eat meat. There
is plenty of room at my table for various preferences and dietary
habits; there is no room at my table for food tyrants who try to
dictate what others should and should not eat.
I also think "this is the food, and this over here is for vegetarians"
is pretty patronizing - but "this is the macaroni and cheese, it is
vegetarian; these are the pork chops, they have meat in them; this is
the lasagna, it is vegetarian but has a lot of garlic in it; this is
the soup, it is mostly vegetarian but is made with chicken broth" is
appropriate without being judgmental in favor of particular dietary
habits.
Charlton
--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com
Karen Lofstrom
> Usually if one person is dining vegetarian, then I cook vegetarian for
> everyone.
Which gives the vegetarian veto power over everyone else's food. Or the
vegan. Which kinda pisses me off -- in particular, because some of them DO
want to prevent everyone else from consuming verboten foods.
Then there's the "multiple food taboos" issue others have pointed out. By
the time you remove all non-vegan, non-kosher, gluten/salt/fat/carbs
containing foods, there's not much left to eat.
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"While I write this letter, I have a pistol in one hand and a sword
in the other." -- Sir Boyle Roche
Robert Sneddon
<d...@branta.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
>Robert Sneddon <no...@nospam.demon.co.uk> said:
>
>>What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
>>Bush voters this time around?
>>His economic nous (American is now over 7 trillion dollars in debt)?
>
>7.38 trillion, I believe, which is the legal limit of borrowing. Yes,
>folks, the United States of America has officially maxed out all its
>credit cards, it cannot borrow another cent, it's got to balance its
>budget *right now*.
Ermm, no. What they are doing is deferring some payments to Federal
pension schemes while Congress raises the 7.38 trillion cap in a day or
two's time. Basically they're raising the credit card limits rather than
do anything substantive about reducing the deficit.
More worrying is the Washington Post's report that the usual buyers of
Treasury bonds, the Chinese banks (aka the PRC) and the Japanese banks
didn't turn up to the mid-monthly bond auction to loan the US another
20-30 billion dollars. This left Wall Street to pick up the load. I
can't see that as a trend but it can't be good news...
"And they'll have fun, fun, fun
till Daddy takes the credit-cards awayyyyy...."
Robert Sneddon
<lofs...@lava.net> writes
>Then there's the "multiple food taboos" issue others have pointed out. By
>the time you remove all non-vegan, non-kosher, gluten/salt/fat/carbs
>containing foods, there's not much left to eat.
There was the time I went out eating with two friends; together were
were B J, Deejay and Nojay. What each of us ate the other two couldn't
touch for religious, health or ethical reasons.
Mark Atwood
>
> Which gives the vegetarian veto power over everyone else's food. Or the
> vegan. Which kinda pisses me off -- in particular, because some of them DO
> want to prevent everyone else from consuming verboten foods.
People who keep kosher, halal, or word-of-wisdom do not, in general,
attempt to enforce said restrictions on other people.
Often enough to be noticable, veggies and vegans are not so polite.
I have some very close friends who are veggies, and a cousin who is a
vegan, and they are polite, good natured, and unobtrusive about it.
But when I go for dinner in a large loose-knit group that includes a
fair number of fruitsnutsflakes, it's almost invariably a tense
situation, with lots of aprobation directed at each other's plates.
Potlucks usually work better in such situations.
--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
m...@pobox.com | you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra | http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus
Ghod
news:41744F1B...@sympatico.ca...
: I've refused the gift. What am I supposed to do?
Eat like a real human being....
--
"Vegetarians are NOT at the top of the food chain."
Cally Soukup
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:11:19 -0500, Marilee J. Layman
> <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:19 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
>>Weingart) wrote:
>>
>>>One day in Teletubbyland, spamc...@dpsinfo.com said:
>>>>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>>>>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>>>>so high.
>>>
>>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>>
>>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
> With help from Cathy Doyle and Mary Kay Kare, I should say!
And from Sarah? How's she doing? I just went to look and see if there
were any recent photos, and just got a blank page. I guess the link is
broken.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Dorothy J Heydt
Karen Lofstrom <lofs...@lava.net> wrote:
>In article <Xns95877C296...@130.133.1.4>, Chris Malme wrote:
>
>> Usually if one person is dining vegetarian, then I cook vegetarian for
>> everyone.
>
>Which gives the vegetarian veto power over everyone else's food. Or the
>vegan.
Only if the veg[etari]an insists, "You must not serve anything I
can't eat."
I understand Karen encounters people like this from time to
time.
Faced with such a situation, I would cook up a big pot of
vegetable stew (beginning by caramelizing a lot of onions in
olive or other oil), and then I would have a separate pot of
meaty bits which could be added to bowls of stew ad eater's
libitum.
Or maybe a gigantic fruit salad with nothing in it but fruit.
This would please everybody but Hal, who doesn't like any kind of
melon. (But I think he would be willing to pick out some of the
non-melon bits and eat those.)
David Dyer-Bennet
He's not proud of trashing the cultural heritage of this country.
He's not proud of destroying much of the cultural heritage of Iraq.
He doesn't support indefinite detention on suspicion. He doesn't
support torturing random suspects. He hasn't trashed the fruits of 60
years of American diplomacy. He doesn't believe that nature exists
solely for man to exploit. He didn't attack a random country that
some of his advisors had it in for, and that his family has a history
of conflict with. He believes in the scientific method. He believes
in the rule of law. He didn't present an orchestrated series of lies
to Congress to get permission to attack that country. He hasn't taken
any significant steps to move this country towards being a theocracy.
He doesn't think the government belongs in your bedroom. He doesn't
believe that one of the family structures mentioned in the bible is
the one-and-only right one. He's not a chicken-hawk. He hasn't run
up the worst deficit ever accumulated by a country. He doesn't throw
away the lives of our patriotic young men and women in an ill-planned,
pointless, hopeless war. And he doesn't then try to make those who
died into non-people.
And that's about the best that I can say for Kerry. But that's far
and away good enough to not only vote for him, but to work for him.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
Mark Jones
> In article <10nao2a...@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Jones
> <sin...@pacifier.com> writes
>
>>> What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
>>> Bush voters this time around?
>>
>>
>> He's the alternative to a proven do-nothing clown
>
>
> BCCI is one big feather in his cap.
>
>> with a 20 year record of being consistently wrong on military and
>> defense issues,
>> but (perhaps fortunately, if he wins) also has a 20 year record of
>> accomplishing little or nothing.
>
>
> Bush is a do-nothing clown?
No, Kerry is the do-nothing clown. I thought I'd made that clear.
There are nearly a thousand American troops
> dead and buried because of his delusions about Iraq, and you want four
> more years? The Government's credit cards are maxed out and you want
> four more years? Jobs are disappearing and you want four more years?
>
> It's time for little Timmy to go take a nap and let the adults take
> over again.
Enjoy your nap, Timmy.
Cathy Doyle
Cally Soukup wrote:
> Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in article <ioa9n0ldfg2a9nl9s...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:11:19 -0500, Marilee J. Layman
>><mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:19 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
>>>Weingart) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>One day in Teletubbyland, spamc...@dpsinfo.com said:
>>>>
>>>>>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>>>>>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>>>>>so high.
>>>>
>>>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>>>
>>>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>
>
>>With help from Cathy Doyle and Mary Kay Kare, I should say!
>
>
> And from Sarah? How's she doing? I just went to look and see if there
> were any recent photos, and just got a blank page. I guess the link is
> broken.
>
Sarah is doing just fine. Daddy's page got messed up when he went over
quota and then we got a new computer and we have to load some ftp
software on it, and you know, life just got in the way.
Cathy
Chris Malme
news:3370688.i...@calcifer.valdyas.org:
> On Tuesday 19 October 2004 13:12 Chris Malme
> (see_si...@filklore.co.uk) wrote:
>
> > Cashew cream, anybody?
>
> Ooh, yes!
Soak a cup of raw cashews in apple juice overnight, and drain. Liquidise
cashews with a desertspoon of vegetable or sunflower oil and half a cup of
the apple juice, flavouring with vanilla, and then adding more apple juice
until it is the right consistancy. Note that cream will thicken when
chilled.
Some people add sugar or syrup, but I find the apple juice makes it sweet
enough.
--
Chris
Minstrel's Hall of Filk - http://www.filklore.com/
Filklore Music Store - http://www.filklore.co.uk/
To contact me, please use form at http://www.filklore.com/contact.phtml
Chris Malme
news:cl32t1$8uq$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net:
> One day in Teletubbyland, Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk>
> said:
> >everyone. Most meateaters will eat my mushroom lasagne, and not even
> >realise there is no meat in it. If I feel I have to provide meat
>
> Does this include, say, Teddy or Phil? ;)
Phil wouldn't like the Lasagne, as I seem to recall he has a thing about
cooked cheese, and possibly garlic.
I have cooked for Teddy before, and I seem to recall it simply meant giving
him meat, and not a lot else.
In either case, I know that they have specific likes and dislikes, and
would treat them much the same as other different-diet folk - i.e. check
with them first.
All in all, I think I'd prefer to cook for the vegans, though. <g>
David G. Bell
no...@nospam.demon.co.uk "Robert Sneddon" wrote:
> What is it about Bush and his team of PNAC cultists that so endears
> Bush voters this time around? His consistency (a figment of his spin
> machine)? His decisiveness (leading an Iraqi nationbuilding adventure
> that is costing blood and money and resulting in a reenactment of
> Stalingrad)? His economic nous (American is now over 7 trillion dollars
> in debt, and yesterday's auction of US Treasury bonds was noticeably
> given a miss by many of the foreign banks who usually bail out the US
> government)? What?
I think "reenactment of Stalingrad" is a trifle excessive, but that last
item, now that is suggestive. Some other hints have come my way, and
there's elements of the current UK boom that may be more fragile than
they seem.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."
Chris Malme
news:10narsv...@corp.supernews.com:
> In article <Xns95877C296...@130.133.1.4>, Chris Malme wrote:
>
> > Usually if one person is dining vegetarian, then I cook vegetarian
> > for everyone.
>
> Which gives the vegetarian veto power over everyone else's food. Or
> the vegan.
No it doesn't. It gives me, the host and cook, the veto over what people
are eating. This is partly for my convenience - so I don't end up cooking
two complete meals, and so I don't have to police the dishes. It is also
because I enjoy meals as a communal event - which I think is lessened if
everyone is eating something different, with the poor vegetarian at the end
with their token nut grill.
If people want to dictate the menu, they can go to a restaurant. If they
are bothered about vegetarian food, they can always decline my invitation
(I generally would tell people when inviting), and come another time, when
I am cooking meat - I don't even mind if they tell me that.
> Which kinda pisses me off -- in particular, because some of
> them DO want to prevent everyone else from consuming verboten foods.
This may be so, for *some* people. But how does it relate to me, a meat-
eater, deciding to cook a vegetarian meal for some friends? Do you think my
vegetarian friends are brain-washing me, or something?
It's interesting that the people who have criticised me about this are
snipping the part of my post where I say that if I think anyone is going to
be particularly bothered by the absence of meat, then I provide it.
Most meat eaters can and will eat vegetables, while no vegetarians can eat
meat. So it makes sense to put the effort into the vegetable dish, which
can be enjoyed by all, and if meat is required, provide it in a simple,
easy to prepare/cook form, as I said before - chops, chili or similar.
Marilee J. Layman
Weingart) wrote:
>One day in Teletubbyland, Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> said:
>>We had enough rain and thunder that the lifeguard closed the indoor
>>pool.
>
>The *indoor* pool?
>
>(Not, I assume, from the rain).
Well, okay, I thought he was nuts, but yes, he closed the indoor pool
when it thundered and rained outside.
--
Marilee J. Layman
G.W. Bush says "results count!"
That's why I'm voting for Kerry
Marilee J. Layman
<sou...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in article <ioa9n0ldfg2a9nl9s...@4ax.com>:
>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:11:19 -0500, Marilee J. Layman
>> <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:38:19 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
>>>Weingart) wrote:
>>>
>>>>One day in Teletubbyland, spamc...@dpsinfo.com said:
>>>>>Hell, this happens in all sorts of newsgroups. It's just
>>>>>a whole lot worse this year, because the stakes are
>>>>>so high.
>>>>
>>>>Speaking of, I went camping this past weekend.
>>>
>>>I went to Capclave and held a rasff party.
>
>> With help from Cathy Doyle and Mary Kay Kare, I should say!
>
>And from Sarah? How's she doing? I just went to look and see if there
>were any recent photos, and just got a blank page. I guess the link is
>broken.
She's very cute! Didn't remember me from last year, but I didn't
expect that. She's taller, talks more, is letting her hair grow
longer.
Chris Malme
news:I5unt...@kithrup.com:
> In article <10narsv...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Karen Lofstrom <lofs...@lava.net> wrote:
> >In article <Xns95877C296...@130.133.1.4>, Chris Malme wrote:
> >
> >> Usually if one person is dining vegetarian, then I cook vegetarian
> >> for everyone.
> >
> >Which gives the vegetarian veto power over everyone else's food. Or
> >the vegan.
>
> Only if the veg[etari]an insists, "You must not serve anything I
> can't eat."
>
> I understand Karen encounters people like this from time to
> time.
>
> Faced with such a situation, I would cook up a big pot of
> vegetable stew (beginning by caramelizing a lot of onions in
> olive or other oil), and then I would have a separate pot of
> meaty bits which could be added to bowls of stew ad eater's
> libitum.
I am wondering if we are looking at a US/UK divide here again.
I am in the UK. I cook a lot - I frequently cook a full Sunday roast,
with meat, vegetables and gravy, just for me. One of the points when I
knew my CPAP treatment was working was when I once again took an interest
in pleasures like cooking, instead of relying on takeaways and
readymeals, as I did when I was one of the living dead. Currently, I am
having risotto about 3 times a week, as I had never cooked one from
scratch up to 2 weeks ago, and I am experimenting, prior to cooking it
for friends. It's now quite pleasant, but not there yet.
When I talk about having people round for a meal, I meant a proper sit-
down dinner (but *not* formal dress <g>), which will often have me in the
kitchen for a couple of hours preparing and cooking everything.
Which is why I try very hard not to have to cook two different meals.
Reading some responses, people are talking about pot-luck, and you are
talking stew. These are all very good things, and, indeed something I
might cook for friends for a mid-week tea (or supper), but not what I
would do for a dinner or Sunday lunch.
> Or maybe a gigantic fruit salad with nothing in it but fruit.
> This would please everybody but Hal, who doesn't like any kind of
> melon. (But I think he would be willing to pick out some of the
> non-melon bits and eat those.)
Fruit salad is always good, and I practically always would have icecream
in the freezer for anyone wanting something a little less healthy.
Dorothy J Heydt
Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>news:I5unt...@kithrup.com:
>
>> In article <10narsv...@corp.supernews.com>,
>> Karen Lofstrom <lofs...@lava.net> wrote:
>> >In article <Xns95877C296...@130.133.1.4>, Chris Malme wrote:
>> >
>> >> Usually if one person is dining vegetarian, then I cook vegetarian
>> >> for everyone.
>> >
>> >Which gives the vegetarian veto power over everyone else's food. Or
>> >the vegan.
>>
>> Only if the veg[etari]an insists, "You must not serve anything I
>> can't eat."
>>
>> I understand Karen encounters people like this from time to
>> time.
>>
>> Faced with such a situation, I would cook up a big pot of
>> vegetable stew (beginning by caramelizing a lot of onions in
>> olive or other oil), and then I would have a separate pot of
>> meaty bits which could be added to bowls of stew ad eater's
>> libitum.
>
>I am wondering if we are looking at a US/UK divide here again.
No, I think perhaps it's individual, not transpondian.
Some people like to cook, some don't. Some used to but don't
any more. I liked to cook, in a rather sporadic way, before I
got married. After thirty-plus years of cooking for husband and
kids, and twenty-odd years of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, cooking
is just too damned much like work.
>
>I am in the UK. I cook a lot - I frequently cook a full Sunday roast,
>with meat, vegetables and gravy, just for me.
Well, I can remember once when I cooked a goose for Easter
Sunday, just for me. I forget what I cooked to go with it. But
that was, again, pre-marriage and pre-CFS.
One of the points when I
>knew my CPAP treatment was working was when I once again took an interest
>in pleasures like cooking, instead of relying on takeaways and
>readymeals, as I did when I was one of the living dead. Currently, I am
>having risotto about 3 times a week, as I had never cooked one from
>scratch up to 2 weeks ago, and I am experimenting, prior to cooking it
>for friends. It's now quite pleasant, but not there yet.
Yeah, and if they find a cure (or even treatment) for CFS in my
lifetime, who knows what I might achieve. But I'm not holding my
breath waiting.
And even some healthy people just plain don't like cooking.
>Reading some responses, people are talking about pot-luck, and you are
>talking stew. These are all very good things, and, indeed something I
>might cook for friends for a mid-week tea (or supper), but not what I
>would do for a dinner or Sunday lunch.
I have also cooked dinner for a group of friends a few times.
Post-marriage but pre-CFS. But it was an awful lot of work for,
when all's said and done, not that much gain. The people were
fed and we had some nice conversations but we could have had the
nice conversations elsewhere.
Dorothy J Heydt
Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Most meat eaters can and will eat vegetables, while no vegetarians can eat
>meat. So it makes sense to put the effort into the vegetable dish, which
Sure. For some values of "all" and "effort." There are people
who really bitch and moan if asked to eat a meatless meal, and
even I (who am perfectly willing to eat meatless cooked by
somebody else) find it maybe an order of magnitude more difficult
to cook something veggie that will taste good. Hence my remarks
elsethread about stew with meat on the side.
I think you have to be a really clever cook to make a meal
consisting entirely of vegetation that both tastes good and is
reasonably nourishing. (For instance, I would cheerfully make an
entire meal of French-fried eggplant, but I bet I'm alone in
this.) And I'm not clever enough.
Dave Weingart
>eater, deciding to cook a vegetarian meal for some friends? Do you think my
>vegetarian friends are brain-washing me, or something?
Since I suspect that the nearest place you can get kosher meat to
you is in London, assuming I make it up to you when next I'm in
Peterborough, can I put in a call for vegetarian food?
And to be allowed to help cook?
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Loyalty oaths. Secret searches. No-fly
mailto:phyd...@liii.com lists. Detention without legal recourse.
http://www.weingart.net/ Who won the cold war, again?
ICQ 57055207 -- Politicklers
Dave Weingart
>>The *indoor* pool?
>>
>>(Not, I assume, from the rain).
>
>Well, okay, I thought he was nuts, but yes, he closed the indoor pool
>when it thundered and rained outside.
Wow, I've never seen that before.
We just were lucky that none of the tents leaked, even in that weather.
(Well, one of the adults' tents did, but that's because he didn't shut it
properly).
Cally Soukup
That'll happen. Especially with kid helping out.
Chris Malme
> One day in Teletubbyland, Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk>
> said:
> >This may be so, for *some* people. But how does it relate to me, a
> >meat- eater, deciding to cook a vegetarian meal for some friends? Do
> >you think my vegetarian friends are brain-washing me, or something?
>
> Since I suspect that the nearest place you can get kosher meat to
> you is in London, assuming I make it up to you when next I'm in
> Peterborough, can I put in a call for vegetarian food?
LOL. I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't get something closer, but I
have no knowledge of this - I can certainly try to find out, if you'd like.
However, as I know it is more complex than just sourcing the appropriate
ingredients, it will probably be much simpler to stick to vegetarian food.
> And to be allowed to help cook?
Of course! <g>
Joel Polowin
> I think you have to be a really clever cook to make a meal
> consisting entirely of vegetation that both tastes good and is
> reasonably nourishing. (For instance, I would cheerfully make an
> entire meal of French-fried eggplant, but I bet I'm alone in
> this.) And I'm not clever enough.
It doesn't take much cleverness; just some ideas about what to
do and a bit of practice. "Chuck dried beans into a crock pot
along with three times their volume of water; add some spices
and chopped vegetables." The next day, you've got dinner.
Depending on exactly what you've done, it might be chili, or
pea soup, or bean chowder, or a variety of other things. And
that's not even getting into the non-vegan vegetarian dishes
that can involve things like eggs and cheese.
--
Joel Polowin jpolow...@sympatico.ca but delete "XYZZy" from address
"If you show trophy fish in first act, then by third act you must
show that it is only red herring." -- Pavel Chekov
David Bilek
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> I think you have to be a really clever cook to make a meal
>> consisting entirely of vegetation that both tastes good and is
>> reasonably nourishing. (For instance, I would cheerfully make an
>> entire meal of French-fried eggplant, but I bet I'm alone in
>> this.) And I'm not clever enough.
>
>It doesn't take much cleverness; just some ideas about what to
>do and a bit of practice. "Chuck dried beans into a crock pot
>along with three times their volume of water; add some spices
>and chopped vegetables." The next day, you've got dinner.
>Depending on exactly what you've done, it might be chili, or
>pea soup, or bean chowder, or a variety of other things.
That does not pass the "tastes good" test from my standpoint,
unfortunately.
-David
Dorothy J Heydt
Joel Polowin <jpolow...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> I think you have to be a really clever cook to make a meal
>> consisting entirely of vegetation that both tastes good and is
>> reasonably nourishing. (For instance, I would cheerfully make an
>> entire meal of French-fried eggplant, but I bet I'm alone in
>> this.) And I'm not clever enough.
>
>It doesn't take much cleverness; just some ideas about what to
>do and a bit of practice. "Chuck dried beans into a crock pot
>along with three times their volume of water; add some spices
>and chopped vegetables." The next day, you've got dinner.
>Depending on exactly what you've done, it might be chili, or
>pea soup, or bean chowder, or a variety of other things.
But unless you're really clever about what you put in it, it's
going to be boring. Presumably this comes under your heading of
"some spices and chopped vegetables". It's all in being clever
about which spices and which vegetables.
That's why I said the thing upthread about making veggie stew,
beginning with caramelizing lots of onions in some oil or other.
That's the only thing I can think of that would give the stew any
flavor.
And
>that's not even getting into the non-vegan vegetarian dishes
>that can involve things like eggs and cheese.
Ohhhhhhhh no. If I've been warned there are veggies in the
offing and I have (for my sins) to cook for them, the stuff in
that stewpot is going to be pure plant life. I'm not gonna get
involved in their theological controversies.
David Goldfarb
Mark Atwood <m...@pobox.com> wrote:
>it's almost invariably a tense
>situation, with lots of aprobation directed at each other's plates.
"Approbation" is cognate with "approval". You mean "disapprobation."
--
David Goldfarb |
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "It's flabby and delicious."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
Joel Polowin
Um. *If* you're taking the trouble to cook to accomodate someone's
dietary restrictions, it's worth getting the details first. You
might learn that the situation is a lot less restrictive than you
might have thought. Or you might find out that there are other
factors which can lead to that awkward "Look, I made this dish
for you!" "I appreciate the effort, but I can't eat it" situation.
An acquaintance of mine is vegan by choice; she's also badly
allergic to gluten, soy, corn, and a variety of other things.
When I go to a pot-luck dinner that she's going to be at, if I'm
doing a dish that I want her to be able to eat, I have to work
around the other factors too. I've done the same kind of thing
when preparing S.C.A. feasts as well; given sufficient advance
notice, it's usually not a major hassle to put a bit of one dish
aside so that it doesn't get sauce on it, or whatever. (Someone
who tells me about dietary restrictions only on the day of the
event gets presented with a list of ingredients and an explanation
of which dishes do or don't fit the restrictions.) People with
restrictions generally *really* appreciate it when someone takes
the trouble to accomodate them and gets it right... since they've
usually had to deal with the mutual stress when someone has not
taken quite enough trouble, and wasted effort on something they
can't eat despite the good intentions of the cook.
Dorothy J Heydt
Joel Polowin <jpolow...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <4175BD9F...@sympatico.ca>,
>> Joel Polowin <jpolow...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>that's not even getting into the non-vegan vegetarian dishes
>>>that can involve things like eggs and cheese.
>>
>> Ohhhhhhhh no. If I've been warned there are veggies in the
>> offing and I have (for my sins) to cook for them, the stuff in
>> that stewpot is going to be pure plant life. I'm not gonna get
>> involved in their theological controversies.
>
>Um. *If* you're taking the trouble to cook to accomodate someone's
>dietary restrictions, it's worth getting the details first. You
>might learn that the situation is a lot less restrictive than you
>might have thought. Or you might find out that there are other
>factors which can lead to that awkward "Look, I made this dish
>for you!" "I appreciate the effort, but I can't eat it" situation.
Different context. You're talking about a special dish made
especially for one person; I was talking about a dish made for a
potluck, to be eaten by many, some of whom (but I don't know how
many) are vegans, others of whom (but I don't know how many)
might be veggies of a milder sort.
>...I've done the same kind of thing
>when preparing S.C.A. feasts as well; given sufficient advance
>notice, it's usually not a major hassle to put a bit of one dish
>aside so that it doesn't get sauce on it, or whatever. (Someone
>who tells me about dietary restrictions only on the day of the
>event gets presented with a list of ingredients and an explanation
>of which dishes do or don't fit the restrictions.)
Well, of course.
(Actually I think I would stop at the list of ingredients. Who
am I to interpret which ingredients do or don't fit someone
else's restrictions.)
I think the last time I ever cooked dinner for anyone other than
the immediate family (and I can even remember when it was, it was
the mid-eighties), one of the people had a known allergy to fungi
of any kind. So I left out the mushrooms, and if I'd had any
other fungi available I would've left 'em out too.
But if you're cooking for a potluck about whose attendees you
know nothing, except that there will be some unknown number of
vegans, well, I suppose someone might cook one vegan version and
one ovolactic version and one carnivorous version of the same
thing, but I don't think I will, thanks.
Charlton Wilbur
DJH> Only if the veg[etari]an insists, "You must not serve
DJH> anything I can't eat."
As I said in another post, people who attempt to dictate what other
people may and may not eat are not welcome at my table. If I am a
host, cooking an entire meal, I will endeavor to make sure there is
enough food there to suit everyone's taste and dietary requirements.
People who make this an onerous task instead of a pleasure do not get
invited to eat with me again.
Charlton
--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com
Tim McDaniel
Some people in this area of the SCA list all ingredients on all dishes
regardless. I think that this is a fine idea indeed.
--
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com